Total vehicle electrification could require significantly larger copper mining efforts over the next 30 years

[Alfonso Maruccia]

Forward-looking: A new paper provides a concerning projection for copper supply over the next few years and the effects it could have on the development of EV technology. Significantly more copper mines will be needed, or we could adapt the hybrid model to achieve the best results for both greenhouse gas emissions and supply requirements.

Copper is essential for the future of EV technology, and recycling alone will likely not be enough to meet the automotive industry's needs. According to a recent paper by the International Energy Forum (IEF), humanity is likely to face a significant supply issue soon if we do not find a way to either meet the increasing demand for the metal or drastically change our electrification efforts.

Copper plays a crucial role in the future of humanity, the IEF stated, as it is vital for generating, delivering, and storing electricity. Electrification will shape the future, and its rate will be dictated by copper availability and demand within current climate policies. Previous studies have expressed concerns about copper supply, with a "seemingly universal presumption" that more copper will "somehow" be available to properly fuel the green transition.

The IEF's paper projects copper supply and demand from 2018 to 2050, placing both in the historical context of copper mine output. The world will need to mine 115 percent more copper in the next 30 years just to meet current "business-as-usual" trends, the organization said, with 55 percent more copper mines required to electrify the global vehicle fleet.

The IEF stated that copper exploration and mine development need to be encouraged in the long term, with both the US and the EU working to extend "responsible" mining efforts within their respective continents. Advanced technologies are required to explore copper deposits located deeper underground, and "vast amounts" of land must be made available for these exploration efforts. Ocean mining should also be considered.

An alternative solution to larger and more intensive mining efforts could be partial electrification within the hybrid automotive market. Hybrid vehicle manufacturing requires only a marginally higher amount of copper (29kg) compared to internal combustion engine vehicles (24kg), according to the IEF, while battery-based EV manufacturing requires 60kg.

A total transition to hybrid manufacturing would result in just a "slight" increase in global copper demand, the report states, and it would not require significant improvements in grid electricity distribution. Furthermore, hybrid vehicles could have almost the same positive impact on greenhouse gas emissions and major city pollution levels as total electrification. It's not a perfect solution, the IEF said, but it could be a much more realistic one when considering resource availability and mining prospects.

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Total vehicle electrification could require significantly larger copper mining efforts over the next 30 years

 

[3volv3d]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.
Think infrastructure before capitalism.
Humans are so dumb.

 

[return]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.
Think infrastructure before capitalism.
Humans are so dumb.

It's fine, soon we kill off each other.

 

[yRaz]

Wow, we've only known about the electric grid problem for EVs since, you know, the 90s. Some neighborhoods in PA require a permit for an EV charger. Also worked on a job in a "development" of a bunch of town homes built in the 90s and all the electric cars charging at once is causing blackouts. The HOA doesn't want to pay for a utility upgrade while simultaneously fining people with for having more than one ICE vehicle.

I was chatting with the linemen on Thursday and he was telling me how they get called out there 2-3 times a week to reset the breaker going into the neighborhood. Said the main going in is 10,000v/500amps and they hadn't had a problem for nearly 30 years aside from a big storm or downed tree.

Maybe someone who knows more about the grid can tell me, but he was talking about how the neighborhood was part of a redundant network they could route electricity through if another part of the grid was down. However, due to the increased demand over the last 5 years that the alternate routes used to keep the grid from going offline are actually being overloaded trying to supply enough electricity to the neighborhood for charging. Watched this guy switch a breaker on with looked like a 10ft yellow plastic Polk.

I'm not anti EV, but our electric grid needs some real work for it to be practical. We had the last 10-15 years to simply get started on this and noone really has so I doubt we'll reach our goal of "zero new ICE cars sold by 2030".

 

[noel24]

Majority of people need cheap electric car with 60 km range a day, and maybe for vacation time, some range extender powered by butanol or ethanol made from agricultural waste.
Why are everyone bent on 1000miles electric car with 1 tonne battery that uses lots of rare earth minerals and lithium from conflict zones in Africa? And requires lorry licence in Europe? And explodes like Russian tank in Ukraine, when You hit a rock on a highway?

 

[The Talking Tech]

We are still far away from the day we can all say:

"My fully charged car can last me a whole work week"

 

[BuckarooBonzaii]

We are so programmed with the words "Climate, Climate Change, EVs, Electric, etc." That we forget about how are we going support everything electric with our limited electric resources.

I'll be waiting for the day when people start protesting against mining because it's ruining the land. This will be interesting to watch.

 

[p51d007]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.
Think infrastructure before capitalism.
Humans are so dumb.

That is called a "fifteen minute city". OR....you can do like the Chinese have done in one city.
Stuff everyone (20,000) people in a huge apartment building, that has grocery stores, gyms,
entertainment and other things so people don't ever have to leave the building. The Chinese
say it is to "cut down" on traffic. But, we all know it is to keep an eye on everyone.

https://www.unilad.com/news/world-n...medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

[ChrisH1]

The techspot article only a few postings away from this one, ‘Telcos sitting on a goldmine of buried copper wire’ suggests a certain possible synergy.

(Of course, it should be Telcos sitting on a coppermine …’)

 

[Endymio]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.

Yes, instead of taking my car from a heated garage, I vastly prefer walking through the freezing rain to a subway station, sitting in a vomit-covered seat while a homeless man falls asleep on me, then getting mugged on the way out of the station.

How could I not recognize the character-building benefits of eschewing private transportation?

 

[loki1944]

We are so programmed with the words "Climate, Climate Change, EVs, Electric, etc." That we forget about how are we going support everything electric with our limited electric resources.

I'll be waiting for the day when people start protesting against mining because it's ruining the land. This will be interesting to watch.

No need to worry; humanity will destroy itself at some point prior to natural resources running out.

 

[Watzupken]

Wow, we've only known about the electric grid problem for EVs since, you know, the 90s. Some neighborhoods in PA require a permit for an EV charger. Also worked on a job in a "development" of a bunch of town homes built in the 90s and all the electric cars charging at once is causing blackouts. The HOA doesn't want to pay for a utility upgrade while simultaneously fining people with for having more than one ICE vehicle.

I was chatting with the linemen on Thursday and he was telling me how they get called out there 2-3 times a week to reset the breaker going into the neighborhood. Said the main going in is 10,000v/500amps and they hadn't had a problem for nearly 30 years aside from a big storm or downed tree.

Maybe someone who knows more about the grid can tell me, but he was talking about how the neighborhood was part of a redundant network they could route electricity through if another part of the grid was down. However, due to the increased demand over the last 5 years that the alternate routes used to keep the grid from going offline are actually being overloaded trying to supply enough electricity to the neighborhood for charging. Watched this guy switch a breaker on with looked like a 10ft yellow plastic Polk.

I'm not anti EV, but our electric grid needs some real work for it to be practical. We had the last 10-15 years to simply get started on this and noone really has so I doubt we'll reach our goal of "zero new ICE cars sold by 2030".

The narrative is that EVs are good for the environment because they don't emit any gas. So companies providing charging facilities then try to paint a green picture by utilizing solar panels as an alternative source of power. The truth however is that solar panels are not going to help much when it comes to fast charging a car battery. So with more cars that cannot power themselves, they rely on the power stations more. So is it really environmentally friendly or just a perception? And now, we can observe the impact because the power infrastructure are being strained with more EVs and the rise of power hungry AI training and maintenance. Save the environment in my opinion is a pipe dream.

 

[masaaya4]

Wow, we've only known about the electric grid problem for EVs since, you know, the 90s. Some neighborhoods in PA require a permit for an EV charger. Also worked on a job in a "development" of a bunch of town homes built in the 90s and all the electric cars charging at once is causing blackouts. The HOA doesn't want to pay for a utility upgrade while simultaneously fining people with for having more than one ICE vehicle.

I was chatting with the linemen on Thursday and he was telling me how they get called out there 2-3 times a week to reset the breaker going into the neighborhood. Said the main going in is 10,000v/500amps and they hadn't had a problem for nearly 30 years aside from a big storm or downed tree.

Maybe someone who knows more about the grid can tell me, but he was talking about how the neighborhood was part of a redundant network they could route electricity through if another part of the grid was down. However, due to the increased demand over the last 5 years that the alternate routes used to keep the grid from going offline are actually being overloaded trying to supply enough electricity to the neighborhood for charging. Watched this guy switch a breaker on with looked like a 10ft yellow plastic Polk.

I'm not anti EV, but our electric grid needs some real work for it to be practical. We had the last 10-15 years to simply get started on this and noone really has so I doubt we'll reach our goal of "zero new ICE cars sold by 2030".

This is why, even if you are anti-car in general, or just anti-EV, you too are going to pay for this. The money needed to upgrade the electricity lines and structure all over the world is going to have an insane prize tag, that only the normal citizens can pay with taxes or fees. Even if you don't have an EV, you will also have to cover the bill for the electricity company to upgrade the power grid, because your 10 neighbours have 16 EVs in total.

 

[whateversa]

We have a lot of copper underground that is no longer used thanks to fibre... How about removing that copper and reusing it...

 

[toooooot]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.
Think infrastructure before capitalism.
Humans are so dumb.

Work for tight European cities, pretty much impossible in many other places.
Also, people with kids, people who carry tools and equipment, people with disabilities, people do not have free time
to wait for a bus. There are millions of those.
Getting rid of cars requires much more thinking and even more money.

 

[wiyosaya]

Wow, we've only known about the electric grid problem for EVs since, you know, the 90s. Some neighborhoods in PA require a permit for an EV charger. Also worked on a job in a "development" of a bunch of town homes built in the 90s and all the electric cars charging at once is causing blackouts. The HOA doesn't want to pay for a utility upgrade while simultaneously fining people with for having more than one ICE vehicle.

I was chatting with the linemen on Thursday and he was telling me how they get called out there 2-3 times a week to reset the breaker going into the neighborhood. Said the main going in is 10,000v/500amps and they hadn't had a problem for nearly 30 years aside from a big storm or downed tree.

Maybe someone who knows more about the grid can tell me, but he was talking about how the neighborhood was part of a redundant network they could route electricity through if another part of the grid was down. However, due to the increased demand over the last 5 years that the alternate routes used to keep the grid from going offline are actually being overloaded trying to supply enough electricity to the neighborhood for charging. Watched this guy switch a breaker on with looked like a 10ft yellow plastic Polk.

I'm not anti EV, but our electric grid needs some real work for it to be practical. We had the last 10-15 years to simply get started on this and noone really has so I doubt we'll reach our goal of "zero new ICE cars sold by 2030".

Personally, (and I know full well some are not going to like my opinion) I don't see this as a US as a Nation problem, I see this as a political problem.

Ever since the "Energy crises" of the mid-1970's, energy policy in the US has depended on the color of the party holding the White House. IMO, one party tends to be forward looking and implements policy that propels the US forward, IMO, while the other party tends to chant "Drill baby Drill" thus doing the same things over and over again while expecting different results and ignoring the consequences. Its as if there's this huge pile of dirt decorating the WH Lawn, and when the color of the WH changes, that pile of dirt is moved back to where it was when the WH was the other color.

Take for instance this recent development - https://www.npr.org/2024/05/14/1251...e-a-major-overhaul-of-america-s-electric-grid
You can bet, simply because the other color has publicly said that they will reverse all the current policies of the other color, that if the WH changes color in November, there's a good chance that modernization of the electric grid will be quashed. Many times during the previous color's reign, the previous color claimed that infrastructure was a priority, however, that turned out to be vaporous gas emitted from one of several bodily orifices.

No real change will happen until everyone gets with the program.

 

[Endymio]

. IMO, one party tends to be forward looking and implements policy that propels the US forward, IMO, while the other party tends to chant "Drill baby Drill"

"Drill baby Drill" gave the US in 2019 its first energy independence in 68 years, turning the US from a net energy importer to a net energy exporter. Meanwhile "forward looking" policies squandered trillions on boondoggles like the failed Solyandra, which never produced a single kilowatt-hour. Nor did Abound Solar, nor Cali Solar, nor dozen of others.

Fast-forward to today, where Biden's 2021 $1.7 trillion "infrastructure" bill included nearly $8B for EV charging stations. For that money, we've gotten a total of eight stations -- a cost of $1,000,000,000.00 per station. Ouch!

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a60702457/federal-funds-yield-only-8-ev-charging-stations/

What's ironic is that the cleanest, most practical, abundant, and forward-looking energy sources the US has -- nuclear and hydro -- are both zealously opposed by the Left.

 

[wiyosaya]

"Drill baby Drill" gave the US in 2019 its first energy independence in 68 years, turning the US from a net energy importer to a net energy exporter. Meanwhile "forward looking" policies squandered trillions on boondoggles like the failed Solyandra, which never produced a single kilowatt-hour. Nor did Abound Solar, nor Cali Solar, nor dozen of others.

As if the other side has not wasted its own set of dollars. And I guess we just ignore that hot air from the previous administration about improving infrastructure even though it was less than what the current admin has done.

What's particularly ironic is that the cleanest, most practical, abundant, and forward-looking energy sources the US has -- nuclear and hydro -- are zealously opposed by the Left.

And time for some of your own rhetoric turned on you - wrong!
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-support-new-nuclear-power-plants-us-2024-05-29/

 

[Endymio]

As if the other side has not wasted its own set of dollars.

Don't try to change the subject. The dollars spent to "drill baby drill" weren't wasted -- they were essential to the US gaining the position as the world's largest energy producer. And nearly all the gains made since 2010 are due to the fracking revolution -- a technology the Obama Administration did all in its power to oppose.

... And I guess we just ignore that hot air from the previous administration about improving infrastructure

The past administration wasn't given trillions of dollars to spend on it. Three years ago, Biden was given $1.7 trillion for "infrastructure", and in 2014 Obama was given $1.1 trillion for the same. What did we get for that nearly $3 trillion in taxpayer funding?

And time for some of your own rhetoric turned on you - wrong!
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-support-new-nuclear-power-plants-us-2024-05-29/

Do you even read your links before posting them? This wonderful "new support" for nuclear consists of nothing but creating yet another federal "advisory group" to "engage with stakeholders" on ways to "reduce cost overruns".

Against this utter nothingness, I give you tens of thousands of actions across the last forty years, from Obama opposing nuclear waste storage and defunding Yucca Mountain, to Carter banning the US nuclear reprocessing industry to Left-wing scare movies like The China Syndrome and Chernobyl Heart, to more than 7,500 lawsuits filed by far-Left environmental groups against planned or ongoing nuclear plant construction.

 

[Dimitrios]

WTF is wrong with our species.
Cars are lame. Build your cities, and towns properly, with oh I dunno, electric trains and trams.
Think infrastructure before capitalism.
Humans are so dumb.

That's being done in Hawaii. 15 min city project. (Correct me if I worded it wrong).

 

[Underdog]

We are so programmed with the words "Climate, Climate Change, EVs, Electric, etc." That we forget about how are we going support everything electric with our limited electric resources.

I'll be waiting for the day when people start protesting against mining because it's ruining the land. This will be interesting to watch.

You must not have noticed. People have been protesting against mining, just not in the US. Mining in Africa has displaced thousands and depleted precious water supplies and polluting rivers but hey, that's OK because the shareholders are happy.

 

[Impudicus]

The only real environmentally friends solution is going back to horses and oxen.