AMD Ryzen 9 7900X vs. Intel Core i9-12900K

[poshflamingos]

But that wasn't the point. You said the problem with hedt was the cost, when the costs on the mainstream have gone completely bonkers the last few gens. Have you checked mobo prices? Both x570 and x670 are through the roof.

And what makes you think you need X570 or X670? You can get B550 (or B450 even) for a fraction of the price of a high-end X570 board. And the X670 was literally just launched a week ago, cheaper B660 boards will come too.

Intel does the exact same thing, launching expensive Z boards first and cheaper H/B boards later.

And from your other comment here...

a 5800x or 5800x 3d on it's cost as much as an i7 + a motherboard

WTF are you smoking? The 5800X is $270. That's the same price as the i5-12600K. And there's also the Ryzen 5700X a bit below that, at $240.

Do you think it's still 2 years ago and Ryzen prices haven't changed from MSRP? When was the last time you looked at prices? A 5600 is $160, a 5700X is $240, a 5900X is $400, and a 5950X is $550 right now on PCPartPicker.

Sure, the 5800X3D is more expensive at $420, but it beats the $380 12700K in gaming and wipes the floor with any previous gen i7.

 

[DSirius]

And the difference is, people who bought an 8700k don't need to upgrade, unlike the ones that went for the 1800x

Mobo upgradability is GREAT, I get that. But not with amd's prices. Im sorry but - for example, numerous points in time - a 5800x or 5800x 3d on it's cost as much as an i7 + a motherboard. So sure, you can upgrade to an 8core zen 3 without swapping motherboards, but you are already paying for a freaking motherboard included in the price of these CPU's.

Can you bring some evidence to support your opinions?
For example, if you do not know, new Intel MB prices are expensive too, and for a platform which is obsolete and will be replaced in 1 year.

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Intel LGA-1851 socket for desktop Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake has been leaked - VideoCardz.com

Not LGA-2551, Intel Socket V1 (LGA-1851) for 14th and 15th Gen Core Series has been leaked Benchlife today reports on new Intel socket for desktop CPUs. Contrary to the previous information, the new socket for desktop Arrow Lake and Meteor Lake-S series is not LGA 2551 but LGA 1851 instead. The...

videocardz.com

AMD platfforms which are supported for 5 years like AM4, or 4 years for AM5, are superior to any Intel platform which become obsolete in maxim 2 years.

 

[Strawman]

Can you bring some evidence to support your opinions?
For example, if you do not know, new Intel MB prices are expensive too, and for a platform which is obsolete and will be replaced in 1 year.

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Intel LGA-1851 socket for desktop Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake has been leaked - VideoCardz.com

Not LGA-2551, Intel Socket V1 (LGA-1851) for 14th and 15th Gen Core Series has been leaked Benchlife today reports on new Intel socket for desktop CPUs. Contrary to the previous information, the new socket for desktop Arrow Lake and Meteor Lake-S series is not LGA 2551 but LGA 1851 instead. The...

videocardz.com

AMD platfforms which are supported for 5 years like AM4, or 4 years for AM5, are superior to any Intel platform which become obsolete in maxim 2 years.

Sure, the 12700f + a b660 bazooka cost a total 440€, back when the 5800x 3d was released for 450€

So, who really cares about mobo upgradability when you are paying for a motherboard included in the cost of your CPU?

Do you want me to keep going? The 5600x was launched 50% higher than what a 10400f + b560 / b460 would cost you. That's the CPU ALONE. So, again, motherboard upgradability is great, but not if the cost of a new motherboard is included in the cpu's price


New intel mobos are expensive, but you don't have to buy em. A 200€ z690 or a 150€ b660 does the job

 

[PaladinNH]

Hasn't amd kept us in the 6core hell for 6-7 years now? Why don't you hate on them as well? LOL

I picked up an 8-core Ryzen 1700X in 2017 that performed better and was priced equivalent to Intel's 6-core 7800X. Intel's 8-core was $200 more and still performed worse. Not sure how AMD kept us in 6-core hell.

And for at least the past year they've had a great 12-core option in the $300's in the 5900X.

 

[Strawman]

I picked up an 8-core Ryzen 1700X in 2017 that performed better

It did what now?

 

[DSirius]

Sure, the 12700f + a b660 bazooka cost a total 440€, back when the 5800x 3d was released for 450€

So, who really cares about mobo upgradability when you are paying for a motherboard included in the cost of your CPU?

Do you want me to keep going? The 5600x was launched 50% higher than what a 10400f + b560 / b460 would cost you. That's the CPU ALONE. So, again, motherboard upgradability is great, but not if the cost of a new motherboard is included in the cpu's price


New intel mobos are expensive, but you don't have to buy em. A 200€ z690 or a 150€ b660 does the job

Here is where you make a confusion between prices and processors.
Ryzen 5800x3D outperform 12900K paired with DDR5 6400Mhz which had and has a double cost than it is now, so, of course 12700f is cheaper than 5800X3D because it is an inferior product.
Also, you did not provide any proof or evidence of Intel 12700f performance vs 5800X3D which can support your personal conclusions.
The performance between AMD and Intel processors is quite close nowadays, so whatever we choose is good for sure and this is also good because we have choices. Let's remember that until 6 years ago we did not have a choice and was bad, boring and buyers were milked with ridiculous prices for any new generation which had 5%-7% more performance.
Now everybody can enjoy the great performance of their processors, just that some of them are more expensive or inferior than "competition" but with a quite small margin.
I understand that you prefer Intel and 12700f instead of AMD, and until you will bring some evidence, your arguments are rather more emotional than rational and this is Ok for me. Because at the end, this is a matter of choice, we buy whatever product we perefer and like, the price/performance ratio is one of criteria, but often not the first.

 

[Strawman]

Here is where you make a confusion between prices and processors.
Ryzen 5800x3D outperform 12900K paired with DDR5 6400Mhz which had and has a double cost than it is now, so, of course 12700f is cheaper than 5800X3D because it is an inferior product.
Also, you did not provide any proof or evidence of Intel 12700f performance vs 5800X3D which can support your personal conclusions.
The performance between AMD and Intel processors is quite close nowadays, so whatever we choose is good for sure and this is also good because we have choices. Let's remember that until 6 years ago we did not have a choice and was bad, boring and buyers were milked with ridiculous prices for any new generation which had 5%-7% more performance.
Now everybody can enjoy the great performance of their processors, just that some of them are more expensive or inferior than "competition" but with a quite small margin.
I understand that you prefer Intel and 12700f instead of AMD, and until you will bring some evidence, your arguments are rather more emotional than rational and this is Ok for me. Because at the end, this is a matter of choice, we buy whatever product we perefer and like, the price/performance ratio is one of criteria, but often not the first.

The 3d is 10% faster in 1080p games vs the 12700f, and the 12700f is 50% faster in every other workload.
Hwunboxed tested it btw, you can check their reviews.

3d is a CPU for people that play specific games that the extra cache works great on (like msfs). Randomly buying it is a silly idea, since in some games it is just terrible.

 

[DSirius]

The 3d is 10% faster in 1080p games vs the 12700f, and the 12700f is 50% faster in every other workload.
Hwunboxed tested it btw, you can check their reviews.

3d is a CPU for people that play specific games that the extra cache works great on (like msfs). Randomly buying it is a silly idea, since in some games it is just terrible.

True, you are right regarding 12400f better performance only for productivity though it is 50% better only in few specifice workloads. My appologies, I did not mention in my post that I was refering Ryzen 5800X3D superiority only in gaming. Oops, so I also made a confusion by omission. Even AMD is marketing 5800X3D as a gaming processor so a comparison with 5800X3D is about gaming. For the best gaming budget PC nowadays, I find Ryzen 5800X3D a better choice.
So those processors are good for their specific workflows, though overall I see why Intel 12400f may be quite atractive as a budget PC for productivity and with a very nice, good performance in games.
Glad we can have good choices on both sides.

 

[DSirius]

Im a logic fanboy.

The 3d cost as much as a 12700f + a motherboard. So who cares about mobo upgradability when you actually have to pay for a motherboard included in the price of the CPU?
It seems to me you are the dumb one here

One of the golden rule of selling succesfully is:
People by with emotion and justify with logic.
The ideea is that both are involved and important.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

Unfortunately what we learned is AMD is in a bit of trouble. You forgot to mention the fact the 13700K is last years 12900K, but with more cache, improved P and E cores, higher clocks and IPC uplifts. 7900X will struggle against the 13700K let alone 13900K and worse for AMD 13700K is still $409, same as 12700K. Then we'll have the 13900K only a bit dearer than the 7900X which will crush it. AMD's pricing will need to be adjusted very quickly. These prices need to be the v-cache prices. They can't afford to add another $100 to these processors.

 

[MaitieS]

Is it true that you can't use gtx 1080 on newest AMD/Intel CPUs?

 

[jbc029]

Is it true that you can't use gtx 1080 on newest AMD/Intel CPUs?

No, it is not.

 

[m3tavision]

Unfortunately what we learned is AMD is in a bit of trouble. You forgot to mention the fact the 13700K is last years 12900K, but with more cache, improved P and E cores, higher clocks and IPC uplifts. 7900X will struggle against the 13700K let alone 13900K and worse for AMD 13700K is still $409, same as 12700K. Then we'll have the 13900K only a bit dearer than the 7900X which will crush it. AMD's pricing will need to be adjusted very quickly. These prices need to be the v-cache prices. They can't afford to add another $100 to these processors.

And^.... requires a brand new mobo, that all those LGA1700 lemmings will have to also buy... Just to upgrade their CPU...

Just to compete with AM5.