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Another water cooling thread

By Trillionsin
Feb 28, 2011
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  1. Hi, I am also new to water cooling. I have been reading some other user's posts and I am going to request some custom professional help on my system.

    My system specs are:
    Case: Thermaltake Spedo Advance Package Black 0.8 mm SECC Steel ATX FullCase
    CPU: Intel Core i7 950
    Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe V2
    RAM: Corsair Dominator 6GB DDR3
    Video: EVGA GeForce GTX 275 896MB
    XFX Radeon HD 5830 1GB
    PSU: Tagan BZ Series BZ1300 1300W

    With this system I am currently OCing close to 3.8GHz
    Also I am OCing the Video card (the GTX 275 being my primary) the other is not OC'ed.

    As you could probably imagine my system is getting pretty hot. A few tests get my GPU up to 100 Celcius, no problem.

    Along with water cooling, I am looking to upgrade my video cards to get two in SLI or Crossfire. I was considering the Radeon HD 6950, I can seem to find water blocks easily enough for that.

    Here are my main questions:
    I WANT to water cool the CPU and GPU's no question, but is it worth it to water cool motherboard components? ie. RAM, chipsets? Is it cost effective? If I set up water cooling for my RAM and motherboard components and I going to notice or will this be a bunch of money for a very small gain?

    Also, it seems difficult to find water blocks for the Asus P6T Deluxe V2 chipsets, if its recommended to cool them, should I upgrade this? and recommendations?
     
  2. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    This may be difficult for some to comment on. But one question that would help me out. Do the chipsets on the P6T board get too hot for the stock cooler when OC'ing? I'll take some temps and post again. I do not know what is too hot for chipsets. I only know a rough estimation for CPU and GPU's.
     
  3. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    That chassis is going to be the limiting factor in any watercooling setup you might want to get installed. If you want an internal radiator then you are limited to a 120x2 (possibly a 140x2)- and even that will require getting a little creative -you'll need to drill some locating points for the second fan.
    If you are planning on an external radiator via radbox or top mount then things get a little easier, albeit at the expense of compactness and dust buildup.

    Since you are new to watercooling I would suggest you look at an all-in-one kit like this XSPC Rasa (240mm rad for internal mount) -there is also a 360mm rad kit but you would need either a rad box/support (cheaper option here) or 1/4" double-end studs .
    The XSPC kit represents excellent value for money (review >>here<<)

    If you've decided to build a loop out of a parts catalog then you'll need:
    CPU block : Currently the EK Supreme HF series are as good as it gets
    Pump -or Pump/reservoir combo.
    Reservoir if using a seperate pump -bear in mind chassis placement and space requirement.
    Barbs and fittings : Count on 8 each (pump/reservoir combo), or 10 (seperate pump and res.). Some components ship with barbs and some graphics card waterblocks ship with barbs and fittings - a lot do not.
    Tubing: Not a time to skimp. There is Tygon medical grade then there is everything else. The better the quality the lower the permeability.
    Coolant. Down to personal choice- just remember that dyes and UV colours look like a*s when they age, and changing colours or reselling parts that have been immersed in dyes becomes more problematic.

    Just remember to thoroughly flush the radiator with distilled water before mounting it to/in the chassis (they always have crap in them), ALWAYS have the pump AFTER the reservoir in the watercooling loop -theres no real right or wrong sequence for the rest of the components and test run the system for 24 hours before final use.

    EDIT: The motherboard MCH (northbridge) will produce heat- 60°C is not unusual- the chip under the heatsink is rated at 105-120°C. You wont need a chipset cooler unless you're planning on some outrageous overclocking- something I would not recommend until you have 1. more experience in liquid cooling, and 2. are prepared for the detonation of the CPU and/or board as a possible consequence.
    Full cover blocks are available for most boards- including yours. Whether they add any worthwhile stability and cooling is open to debate unless you plan on overclocking the CPU past the limits of practicality. Your chassis comes equipped with a 23cm side fan does it not? That should be plenty.
     
  4. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    Wow, thank you dividebyzero. I will continue my research with your post, and post back once I read up on everything.

    You must have had some experience setting up rigs like these.

    One quick question before I start researching the info you gave me... would it be easier with a different case? I do not mind modding my PC case, and drilling holes in it, but if its going to look fugly then I may consider buying a new case. Any recommended case?

    Let's say money isn't a real issue here, and that I found 2 grand laying around. (not for real, but fun to imagine!) Yes, I am saying I have a $2000 budget on installing a water cooling system, and possible replacement or upgrade of computer components.

    Yes, there is a very large fan on the side. As well as quite a few inside that I only plan on removing if its in the way of the water cooling system. I am not doing this to make the system quiet, this is purely for cooling for OC purposes.
     
  5. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    I've been using liquid cooling for a number of years
    Short answer is yes. If you don't mind modding the Spedo then it's perfectly acceptable, although airflow is fairly restrictive (front-to-back perspective)
    Good alternatives would be Silverstone TJ07 (probably the best "compact" full tower for watercooling), Coolermaster ATCS840 and HAF-X, Lian Li A-77F, Corsair 700D/800D
    CPU block: EK Supreme HF Cu/Ni $90
    Pump: Swiftech MCP655-B (one of many rebranded Laing D5-12V) $90
    Radiator: EK CoolStream 360XT $80
    Radiator fan shroud: Technofront AirBox 360 $26
    Reservoir: Swiftech MicroRes v2 $25 (internal) or EK Dual Bay ( 5.25" bay mount) $70.
    You can go with a bigger capacity res but it takes up more space and doesn't add appreciably to the cooling ability of the loop.
    Tubing: 2m (6ft) of Tygon 2375 @ $4.75/ft
    Fans: 3 x Noctua NF-P12 @ $20.75 ea.
    Other alternatives are 6 fans in push-pull (you may not be able to use the shroud because of depth constraints), 6x 120x12mm Scythe Slip Stream fans, or 3 x 120x38mm Delta's -bear in mind that Delta's are loud even if they do more more air than most hurricanes.
    Barbs: Bitspower 1/4"-1/2" $various
    Fittings: Bitspower compression 1/2" ID$various
    Coolant: Distilled water
    Biocide : Silver coil $7
    Oh Sh*t it's leaking! (unlikely but better safe than sorry): Thread tape $2
    MOSFET/Chipset blocks: Superfluous in the majority of cases. Dead money as soon as you upgrade the board
    VGA block : Best bet is to buy a card with one pre-fitted -you'll pay less and won't void your warranty (EVGA excepted- but you evinced interest in an AMD card).

    If you're using the Spedo and want to mount the rad off the back of the chassis factor in a rad box or four double-ended 1/4" studs.
     
  6. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    Again, let me tell you how much I am appreciating your help. As you may expect, I have more questions before my final purchase.

    Not sure if I understand part of this.
    So, there is a radiator, and a radiator fan shroud? Are they both necessary?
    From what I read, it looks like it helps the air flow directly through the radiator?

    Is it better to get the pump/reservoir combo? or to get them separately?
    If separate, where would the pump go? inside, outside the case? in the bays along with the reservoir?

    I think those are my main questions for now.
     
  7. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    Fan shrouds act as a spacer box between the rad and the fan- it eliminates, or at least minimizes the "dead-spot" in air flow where the fan hubs sit. Not absolutely necessary will increase cooling efficiency of the radiator and thus the system. If you aren't worried about a degree or two here and there then buy a prebuilt system, since they are only a few degree's less efficient than a custom loop.

    Pump and res or pump/res combo is a matter of personal taste. The loop I put together for you wasn't the be all and end all- it's simply a combination of parts that are proven for performance, longevity and ease of maintenance/installation.

    The pump and res can go anywhere in the chassis that there is space, which is why I originally mentioned chassis preference. Both the Swiftech Micro res (about the same size as a pack of cigarettes) and the MCP655 pump (also compact) have options for horizontal (chassis floor) or vertical mounting options. A bay reservoir/pump is obviously another option but bear in mind that you would either need to add a lot more tubing to the system to slide the bay res out for refilling/topping up, or you would need to drill and fit a fillport to the chassis to accomplish the same thing without moving the component every time you needed to fill/top up/flush.

    I have an 800D -you can see that the pump is unobtrusive. Old nVidia trial horse fit-out for thermal testing.
     
  8. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    i would not put forth the effort to cool motherboard components unless you either have money to burn, like the looks or your components are getting hot to a point that it hinders your OC.
    also to take in consideration is that if you do cool motherboard components that you preferably would cool them in a separate loop.

    a good combination of res and pump is the Koolance RP-402X2 Dual 5.25" Reservoir.
    You can use for a single loop or dual loop.
    Separate loops are usually a bit more difficult to route but separating components into different loops enhances the cooling performance.

    TFC also makes a great fan shroud like the TFC Xtender 120mm Radiator Shroud.

    Bitspower makes probably the best fittings in the market and the best looking ones too but as you may realize or maybe will realize, a complete setup can get pretty pricey. Fittings is one sector were you could save a couple bucks here and there.
    1st, compression fittings are nice but it's mostly for looks, regular barbs do just fine. Danger Den, EK and Bitspower make some of the best although there is not a whole lot of difference.

    There are a number of cases suited for water cooling. Silverstone, MountainMods, Corsair, Cooler Master to name a few are companies that either have a wide variety or specialized cases for water cooling.

    also, consider that you will need 2-3 shrouds per heat source. GPU usually need a bit less. I usually use 3 for a CPU and 2 for each GPU. This all depends on what CPU/ GPU you are running and what cooling components you are using.
     
  9. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    I found something very similar to mine.

    This PC is the same case and same motherboard.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BAFHiVzJ7k&feature=related

    How would you conpare this system to what you have recommended to me so far? Any options that could be improved upon?

    Also, ideas on quick disconnect components? Are they leaky? worth the money? I am interested in this because it sounds like it will make it easier to manage and/or clean out if necessary.
     
  10. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    the system that was recommended is good. you could go with it as is.
    a lot of the changes i would make are rather preference.

    as mentioned before i like the TFC extender for use as a shroud but that also depends on application. i have one because i mounted my rad external.
    usually for internal mounting you won't need or use a shroud at all.
    swiftech also has a cheap and useful rad shroud which offers flexibility in mounting options. Swiftech MCB-120™ "Radbox"

    The pump (Swiftech MCP655) is a strong pump. If you have a single long loop with lots of bents and sharp ankles this would be the way to go. For smaller and straight forward loops the Swiftech MCP350 would suffice. This is a smaller form factor and comes also in a stronger version Swiftech MCP355. The newest in the line is the Swiftech MCP35X.
    All of those pumps are originally manufactured by Laing and rebranded for Swiftech, Danger Den, Alphacool, Koolance, etc
    The Swiftech MCP-655 translates to Laing's D5. the D4 is a older model. The D5 also comes in a vario version (Swiftech MCP655 Vario) which allows to adjust the power output and flow rate.

    Reservoirs are another thing thats very much preference. You really don't need a res at all but I would highly recommend to use one. It makes maintenance a lot easier. ek makes nice tube res's too like the EK-Multioption RES X2 - 150 Basic but if you go with the Koolance RP-402X2 then you won't need one as it has it included.

    Fan wise I would recommend the Scythe Gentle Typhoon 15 or Scythe Gentle Typhoon 14. The 15 rotates at 1850 RPM and the 14 rotates at 1450 RPM. The 14 is hardly noticeable but the 15 is a little but offers more airflow.

    I would go with bards instead of compression fittings. Compression fittings can add a nice look to it but they also add a very slight bit more resistance to your loop. They are easier to maintain. If you take down your loop often that could be helpful.

    Bitspower makes some of the best fittings and they look very too. Koolance has good fittings as well as EK and Danger Den.
    I would stay away from QuickDisconnect fittings unless you absolutely need them. If you want to use them go with the Koolance ones. They all add resistance to your loop but the koolance ones are adding the least. They are no more leaky as any other compression fittings.
     
  11. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    finalizing

    I've gotten two XFX Radeon HD6870 Black Edition.
    With OCing this system will I need two loops or will one suffice with the large radiator I listed below?

    Pump: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6...ed_Control_and_38_Conversion_Kit_317_GPH.html
    Reservoir: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...eservoir_w_Flow_Meter_-_Acetal.html?tl=g30c97
    CPU Block: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...54_AM2_AM2_AM3.html?tl=g30c85s139&id=QeWNuvDN
    GPU Blocks x2: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...A_Liquid_Cooling_Block_No_Fittings.html#blank
    Water: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30...-Coolant_Additives-Distilled_Water-Page1.html
    Antimicrobial option: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Tubing_Reservoir_Strip.html?tl=g30c103#blank

    Radiator: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...r_EK-CoolStream_RAD_XT_360.html?tl=g30c95s161
    Rad Mounting Bracket: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...Bracket_w_Quick-Release_BKT-HX001P.html#blank
    Rad Fans x3: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6...5mm_Fan_-_543_CFM_at_19_dBA.html?tl=g36c15s60
    Rad fran Shroud: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...Box_360_-_Acrylic_.html?tl=g30c429s1074#blank
    Will I have any problems mounting this outside my case with the mounting bracket I listed because with the shroud?

    Reservoir and pump combo replacement option: http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=2032
    Would any one recommend this res/pump over my above config?

    Compression fitting, these are easier remove and attach? but restrict water flow? How many of these will I need for the above configuration? (and any recommended alterations)
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6...Fitting_BP-CPF-CC4.html?tl=g30c409s1033#blank

    Anything else I am forgetting here?
     
     
  12. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    the rad mounting bracket and the rad shroud essentially do the same thing. i am not sure why you picked both?

    the single tri-rad will be ok for decent cooling. if you want to achieve good or very good temps you will need more rad. i would at least consider to add a dual rad to the loop.

    the cpu block you picked is very good and would have been my choice as well but you should go with a nickel version block. the EK HF comes in nickel as well. since your gpu blocks are nickel you should use nickel throughout your loop unless you plan to separate them.
    mixing metals is a no no.

    if you are interested in the koolance bay res here is some in depth information and it shows you the product in detail. you will need different pumps for it.

    what tubing diameter have you decided to get?
    make sure it matches the fittings or the otherway around

    everything else looks good
     
  13. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    I did not know this...

    If I add another rad, where could I possibly put it? I'm already mounting the one outside on the back most likely. Can it go inside somewhere?

    EK Supreme HF Universal CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Rev 2 - Full Copper - Nickel Plated (Sockets 775 / 1156 / 1366 / 939 / 940 / 771 / 754 / AM2 / AM2+ / AM3)

    I'm not sure what your concern is here, the way it looks? The GPU blocks have a black cover on the part of the nickle plating... I believe I picked the nickle plated one for the CPU anyways... let me know if I am wrong, please.

    If I have to get multiple pumps, then I am not really interested in it... it was just a thought to have both the reservoir and pump in one. Maybe you can suggest a better alternative?

    I forgot about the tubing. LOL. Small important detail... I'm going to guess 3/8" ID tubing will be sufficient?

    Edit: How bout this stuff? http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...nt_Tubing_-_38_ID_12_OD_-_Clear_AJK00027.html
     
  14. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    You will be fine using the rad support and the fan shroud. Contrary to Codisha's ramblings the rad support supports the radiator (surprised?) while the shroud gives seperation between the rad fins and the fan. In this pic for instance you would mount the shroud between fans and rad in a pull configuration. You also have the options of:
    1. Mounting the rad support to the lower fan position (raises radiator higher)
    2. Mounting the rad support to the upper fan position (lowers radiator)- not much of a problem since the GPU's wont be exhausing hot air into the rad, although it could make for more tricky cable/connection changes .
    3. Using a 120mm or 240mm fan shroud (depending on where the rad support is mounted) and three more fans on the other side of the rad (push-pull) increasing the air flow and providing better cooling performance. Likely this would negate the need for further radiators if you decide to try for max overclocking. The Koolance rad support may support having a shroud (as well as fan) where it attaches to the radiator-but from memory I think that the rad support mounting mechanism might that you can mount a fan only (or with a thick/multiple vibration damper acting as shroud). A quick email to FrozenCPU or Koolance will confirm this if you want to look at a 6-fan push-pull arrangement.
    Just for the record,the plexi isn't designed to handle the stress of having to support the radiator, coolant and fans. It will eventually crack
    Not necessary unless Trillionsin is going for max overclocking.
    No. Simply because it's just an expensive reservoir- the pump isn't included.
    Wrong. The link plainly says that the PMP450 and 450S are recommended. The PMP450/450S are also known as the Laing D5 and D5 Vario....which are also known as the Swiftech MCP655 and MCP655-B.
    And the hits keep on coming...
    The EK blocks are full copper with nickel plating on the outside to negate the negate the oxidisation that long-term exposure to air induces. The nickel plating is for aesthetic reasons (i.e. it keeps the blocks looking nice and shiny!). The GPU waterblocks are full copper with nickel plating on the outside (see edit) for the same reasons. EDIT: I was looking at the wrong tabs I had open ( Danger Den and Aquacomputer)
    You can either use hose clamps or compression fittings. Clamps are cheaper but can be difficult to fit (especially in close proximity to one another such as multi GPU fittings) and to some people look messy. Personally I prefer compression fittings- more expensive and easier to fit as well as a much cleaner looking build. You can also, obviously, use a combination of both.
    As for quantity you will need 10 barbs and 10 clamps/compression fittings. The pump has barbs and clamps included (plastic so as not to damage the pump). You will need 2 barbs/fittings for the rad, 4 for the GPU blocks, 2 for the CPU block and 2 for the reservoir. Frozen CPU give you the option of ordering the fittings required on each of the relevant product pages. All the barbs need to be 1/2" OD and all the clamps/compression fittings need to be 1/2" inside diameter (ID) and 5/8" outside diameter.
    You've linked to 1/2" ID -5/8" OD fittings so I'm guessing you are looking at getting the most from the system (wise choice IMO). With compression fittings you must get a good grade of tubing that has consistantly good tolerance since the compression fittings are designed to cinch down to the exact outside diameter (OD) measurement that they are rated for. If the tubing is slightly fatter the fitting will probably not be able to be fitted, if the tubing is too narrow then the fitting will leak -hence the note in my original post about not skimping on the tubing.
    Talking of which, add in the Tygon tubing I linked to earlier. If you want to add bling then add UV dye to the coolant. Having solid colour/non-transparent tubing makes bleeding the loop somewhat harder -especially for a someone using watercooling for the first time. Once you have changed and bled the system a few times you'll know more instinctively where air bubbles are likely to occur for a given system. With transparent tubing you will be able to see small air bubbles in the loop and can gently tap the tubing in that area to dislodge them if they persist. Tygon tubing in general is smooth enough internally that air bubbles don't usually have enough purchase to stick around in the loop.

    EDIT: Trillionsin as per your PM here's a splitter that will do the job (you will need two + 2 extra clamps/fittings) and I would definitely go with 1/2" tubing as opposed to 3/8".
     
  15. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    yes the tubing will do. the 2375 is a bit pricey. the 3603 would do as well.
    the 3/8 tubing is fine. most pick 1/2 ID.
    the OD is important to if you use compression fitting. if your fittings are ID 3/8 OD 5/8 then you will have a hard time fitting and securing tubing that is ID 3/8 OD 1/2. it's too thick and the compression fitting will either not fit or cut it.

    the koolance gpu block is nickel plated on the inside as well and it clearly shows. i am not sure about the EK HF but if it is true that the nickel plating is only external then those mixed metals could react with each other in your loop.

    i didn't catch if you are actually going to stay with the case you have now or going with a new case. depending on that a rad could also be mounted internally.
    as said, with a single tri rad your temps will be ok but if you want to get more out of it then additional rad would help.

    my statement about the koolance bay res was not wrong because i didn't make a statement i only recommended it out of personal preference which is largely base on martins review of it.
    the D5 are larger, pump more water and are also louder. pick your poison.
    if you only going for a single loop and one rad then the smaller pump or pumps would suffice because there is only so much cooling you can get out of the rad.

    you don't have to get multiple pumps but it's an option of that unit.
     
  16. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    Nickel is inert. If it was not it would not be used to electroplate copper.
    If you can find any evidence that Copper and Nickel can cause an chemical reaction (or electrochemical if you prefer) then feel free to share.
    Nickel ions in an aqueous solution (Ni2+) can corrode copper- solid Nickel cannot.
    Pretty pointless worrying about a Nickel -Copper reaction when the loop also contains brass (reservoir tank) and stainless steel (pump).
    Note to Trillionsin: Changing the solution should be done on a six-monthly basis. If you don't think you can adhere to that timeframe then add some anti-corrosive.
    Physically all the pumps are the same dimensions Koolance PMP450 (click "Diagrams") vs Laing D5 and Swiftech MCP655....about 1mm difference in measurement which likely is a product of imperial > metric conversion rounding. Flow rate and head pressure are a product of which model is actually purchased (along with voltage)- a D5-38/810N model (Koolance PMP450) would be virtually indistinguishable from the Swiftech version (D5-38/850N)- A slight flow rate/voltage gradient difference- and the voltage used. Bear in mind that Koolance's head pressure numbers are in all probability bs -something they have been known to dabble in (post #16 has an interesting link)
    And straight from the horse's mouths[1] [2]

    EDIT: Laing's product PDF
     
  17. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    So, you are not sure whether or not I can put fans on both sides of the rad, between the mounting bracket and the rad? (making a total of 6 fans, push/pull) And you suggest to email FrozenCPU or Koolance to find out the information? I think I can handle that.

    Or, would it be possible to put three fans to pull. and two fans to push? The one missing is where the bracket would attach?

    So, I am still just a bit confused on this. If I go with compression fittings, do I also need barbs? The way you word it is just a little confusing. Rewording the sentence for me should do the trick, at least. haha

    Also, would it be difficult to add a second rad to this setup at a later date? What would be included, adding another res/pump with its own loop? The only reason would be to separate the GPU's and CPU. CPU would have its own smaller rad inside the case, and the two GPUs would have the larger one mounted outside. Or would it be recommended to do this the other way around?

    Please keep in mind, if you start to notice I am talking about something in a strange manner I may not understand the concept completely. For example, with the fans.. push/pull would mean there are fans on one side of the rad pulling (away from PC) and fans on the inside of the rad pushing through the rad. Correct?

    Edit:
    Also, will this work for in between the two video cards water blocks?
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...djustable_1_Slot_Spacing_CNT-VDA2_.html#blank

    Would 12 feet of this work? I'm not sure on the exact tubing measurements. Rad mounted on the back, res in the bays near the bottom by the pump, to the cpu, to the gpu (I asked about a link between gpu's above) link to other gpu, then to rad, then back to res. Correct?
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...X_12_ID_58_OD_-_Non-Porous_Smooth_Tubing.html
     
  18. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    so you say i am wrong but then you confirm what i and you just said?

    btw, most reservoirs are made out of plastic

    i am not talking about those, i am talking about Koolance PMP400 vs Laing DDC vs Swiftech MCP-35x or Swiftech MCP-355
    these pumps should suffice since this not going to be a high performance setup but rather an entry into water cooling.
     
  19. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    it's really your preference. for the sake of sanity thou i would stick with one or the other throughout the loop.

    i am not sure what qualifies as difficult. it is possible and feasible. it means that you would have to take down the entire loop, probably buy new tubing and water and then rebuild the setup.
    for a 2nd loop you need a 2nd pump and a 2nd/ separate res.

    exactly .. correct.

    Edit:
    Also, will this work for in between the two video cards water blocks?
    http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...djustable_1_Slot_Spacing_CNT-VDA2_.html#blank[/QUOTE]
     
  20. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    Yes, thats it exactly. The fan space where the bracket hardware attaches to the rad may not support fan+shroud. A friend of mine had the same Koolance rad support and from memory, the hinge pins on the rad support stopped the shroud being fitted -I'm not sure of the shroud brand he used but it as around 20mm thick and wouldn't fit past the scissor hinges on the unit ( pic 1 of this product page shows the hinge assembly). So just to be on the safe side (if you want a push-pull arrangement) it might pay to check for compatibility
    Yep. The barbs are the "nozzles" that the hose fits over and the fitting (compression or clamp) is what secures the hose to the barb.
    Barbs in general have a 1/4" screw thread on one end -this screws into the component- radiator/block etc.
    Reservoirs and pumps usually include barbs and clamps and are usually of plastic since they screw into plastic or plexiglass/acetyl bodied components. Some CPU blocks, GPU blocks and radiators also ship with barbs, but a lot do not.
    No. The beauty of going with good quality components over an all-in-one solution is that it can expanded if you see the need to.
    Adding another pump/res (a dual-loop system) is generally a messy business- makes for a very "busy" cooling setup. If you are contemplating two, three or four enthusiast level graphics cards (200+ watts each) then yes, I would think the effort is worth it. Just adding a second radiator and possibly a larger reservoir to the loop would probably suffice. The 1/2" tubing and D5 pump make a very good basis for a high-flow system. The biggest obstacle to good cooling will be layout- the avoidance of too many sharp bends or junctions which introduce inertia into the coolant flow.
    Correct.
    In what way. Do you not understand the difference between a solid and a liquid ?
    Solid Nickel does not react chemically with Copper. Aqueous Nickel (Nickel in solution) can react simply because of the free ions that the aqueous solution have available
    I said :
    Just in case you aren't up to speed. A radiator had a collector tank/reservoir that is in almost all cases of brass construction since milling a thread into copper is problematic -Copper being such a soft metal -easy to cross-thread, easy to strip the thread, no structural rigidity. The chamber in the picture on this page -where the inlet/outlet barbs are located is the reservoir/collector tank.
    I wouldn't consider anyone planning to incorporate Crossfired HD 6870 into an X58 loop entry level. Trillionsin also evinced an interest in expandibility, which is always something I tend to look at with watercooling since the initial outlay is high. I would consider a DDC fine for spacesaving purposes or a loop that wasn't going to be greatly added to. Buying a D5 now beats buying a DDC then having to buy another at a later date.
     
  21. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    the DDC would make it a lot easier to add and operate a second loop. i have thought of expandability.
    i still recommend to go with 2 loops.
    the EK HF really shines with high water flow and still performs well with less flow.
    the 2 GPU block are very resistive and could hamper the performance of the CPU block.
    also, if you stress the gpu's only and the water warms up it will also warm up your cpu even thou it's actually sitting idle.

    a radiator with integrated res is great but has no visual que's for the water level which means you actually have to check. regularly
     
  22. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    Yes. Probably easier than fiddling around with a short lenth of tubing, but not as elegant as a SLI/Crossfire bridge .You would need to check compatibility to use the Watercool. The EK version would require an adapter link for your HD6870- so not the cheapest solution.
    6 feet should suffice. Measure twice, cut once.
    The flow order looks fine.
    Here's a selection of watercooling guides
    Clunk (looks pretty comprehensive)
    and...
    TechArkade (sponsored by DD)
    Overclock.net (work in progress?)
    and Tom's Hardware (some of the hardware is a little dated but the procedure remains the same.)

    @Codisha
    I have nothing against using the DDC. You just have more options from the get-go using the D5 IMO.
    Resistance in the GPU blocks should be minimal if the plumbing is done correctly. Inertia from sharp bends in tubing generally hinder coolant flow just as much as 90 degree bends in waterblocks. I have no idea how these Koolance GPU blocks handle- I haven't used a Koolance wb since the ill-fated 5970 that managed to cook the cards because of lack of VRM cooling -an appalling lack of attention to detail.
    In a high flow system I doubt that there should be much chance of active GPU's heating up an idle CPU too much. I doubt there would be few instances where this scenario would occur unless someone was a huge fan of DXVA. Aggregate heat output and dissipation is still largely a product of radiator cooling area, fin density and fan effectiveness.
    I run a watercooled system 24/7 (i7 950 @3.6-4.0G- GTX280 SLI- D5 pump- TFC XChanger360- 3 x Noctua PF-N12, 3x Noiseblocker 2000rpm, Swiftech MicroRes v2, Swiftech Apogee GTZ) that's required to shift (probably) more heat than our OP's in a climate that regularly reaches 30-38°C and 90+% humidity. I would feel pretty safe with recommending the parts I have done simply because the same core components work to a high level in my own system.
    Who expoused using a combined reservoir/radiator ? Or are you being obtuse?
    Just in case you are unfamiliar with what a radiator is...
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Codisha

    Codisha TS Member Posts: 86

    where does it show the water level?
    i didn't say that they don't exist or that i don't understand how they work. i said that it is inconvenient not to know how much water is actually in it.

    anyway, you seems you are pretty aggressive and confrontational and it seems Trillionsin is leaning more towards some of your ideas since you bombard him with pm's trying to rip everything i say.
    i merely tried to give options and variety and prevent painful 1st experiences but hey, sounds like you got it all covered
    cheers :wave:
     
  24. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,899   +711

    It doesn't -it's a radiator.
    If you want to see the level of fluid you obviously need to look at the reservoir (the acrylic/plexi one, NOT the tank in the radiator- though I would have thought the distinction was obvious).
    1. When flushing radiator prior to fitting into the loop, temporarily block the outlet of the radiator (maybe use a fingertip!)
    2. Fill the radiator with distilled water from a measuring jug.
    3. When full subtract the remaining water amount from the amount you started with- this will give the volume of water within the radiator.
    Conversely...
    1. Keep the loop filled with coolant and the reservoir full. You need not worry about the volume of water.
    Only with people who deliberately misinterpret what is plainly written. Everyone is entitled to their opinion- what I take issue with are postings that purport to be fact when they are obviously not. Compound that with some spurious sidetracking to divert attention from the original ill-formed ramblings and I'll be more than happy to show my disagreement with those tactics
    Oh dear...has someone hurt your feelings ! You are so far off base with that whine that it makes everything else you've said sound like an exercise in insightfulness
    Options are fine-as I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I take issue with is statements like:
    -which of course isn't a pump and reservoir-only the latter.
    Seven shrouds...really. And here I was thinking one on each side of the radiator was plenty.
    Except of course that hanging a 360 rad, coolant, hoses and 3 (or 6) fans off a 2mm thick (hopefully) cast (but probably extruded) plexi fan shroud secured by four 1/4" screws is a recipe for disaster.
    Sure is...except the galvanic reaction you were thinking of happens between Aluminium and Copper not Nickel and Copper (note that Al and Cu both oxidise, Ni does not).
    On top of all this, in post #18 you stated that you were under the assumption that Trillionsin was setting out to build an entry level watercool loop, but in Trillionsin's first post he/she said that they already had an i7 950 at 3.8GHz. Watercooling obviously means going higher -probably much higher given the cost, but you steered them towards a dual loop and a lower capacity pump -a very hot and noisy pump once you get past 12v I might add- which are at odds with eachother.
    You see where the advice becomes muddied ?
     
  25. Trillionsin

    Trillionsin TS Evangelist Topic Starter Posts: 1,095   +43

    To the both of you:
    This is very helpful in my learning experience. I have learned so much in the last week posting on here that I cannot begin to explain my gratitude online. If only I could shake your guy's hands and take you out for a drink/or buy you a bottle. ;)

    With both of you posting like this I am seeing different point of views. I would rather not turn this thread into a discussion/argument where people are attacking each other's ideas and opinions. Let's all keep this a high quality thread that all techspot members, and amature water cooling enthusiasts such as my self can look forward to reading through and get what they need out of it.

    Also, I am not done posting.. I just need a little time to read through some more of this before blindly posting on assumptions.

    If you are both interested.. or anyone for that matter. I plan to document this installation with pictures and can post them up for anyone to see once I get finished.
     


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