Another water cooling thread

[Codisha]

It doesn't -it's a radiator.
If you want to see the level of fluid you obviously need to look at the reservoir (the acrylic/plexi one, NOT the tank in the radiator- though I would have thought the distinction was obvious).

That is exactly what I was saying. I prefer a visual que, a reservoir with plexi glass window of some sort that helps me detect the current water level at a glance.

1. When flushing radiator prior to fitting into the loop, temporarily block the outlet of the radiator (maybe use a fingertip!)
2. Fill the radiator with distilled water from a measuring jug.
3. When full subtract the remaining water amount from the amount you started with- this will give the volume of water within the radiator.
Conversely...
1. Keep the loop filled with coolant and the reservoir full. You need not worry about the volume of water.

good instructions.

Only with people who deliberately misinterpret what is plainly written. Everyone is entitled to their opinion- what I take issue with are postings that purport to be fact when they are obviously not. Compound that with some spurious sidetracking to divert attention from the original ill-formed ramblings and I'll be more than happy to show my disagreement with those tactics

Oh dear...has someone hurt your feelings ! You are so far off base with that whine that it makes everything else you've said sound like an exercise in insightfulness

Options are fine-as I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I take issue with is statements like:
-which of course isn't a pump and reservoir-only the latter.
Seven shrouds...really. And here I was thinking one on each side of the radiator was plenty.

i never mad those statements. i didn't say anything about 7 shrouds and i am not sure if you are refering to my koolance suggestion with your 2nd claim.

Except of course that hanging a 360 rad, coolant, hoses and 3 (or 6) fans off a 2mm thick (hopefully) cast (but probably extruded) plexi fan shroud secured by four 1/4" screws is a recipe for disaster.

Again, I have not suggested that shroud. The shrouds i recommended was The TFC extender amd the Swiftech RadBox.

Sure is...except the galvanic reaction you were thinking of happens between Aluminium and Copper not Nickel and Copper (note that Al and Cu both oxidise, Ni does not).

correct, i like nickel better and prefer to make a habit of using it for that very reason. The less mixed metals are in the loop that can oxidize the better, to me anyway. so if you have the option to pick a nickel block then thats the route i would go.

As dividebyzero explained Ni=Nickel does not oxidize with Cu=Copper.
I am not that deep into chemistry but assuming this Ni2+ and Cu2+ then there should be no reaction.

On top of all this, in post #18 you stated that you were under the assumption that Trillionsin was setting out to build an entry level watercool loop,

I was rather under the impression that this is Trillionsin's entry into water cooling, not that his, your or my suggestion would lean towards an entry level system.

but in Trillionsin's first post he/she said that they already had an i7 950 at 3.8GHz. Watercooling obviously means going higher -probably much higher given the cost,

It clearly says in the 1st post that he is new to water cooling.

but you steered them towards a dual loop and a lower capacity pump -a very hot and noisy pump once you get past 12v I might add- which are at odds with eachother.
You see where the advice becomes muddied ?

You as well ill advised to use a single 360 radiator for a CPU and 2x GPU's. It does not matter much what pump you are using or how many fans you are putting on the radiator, if there is not enough heat removal the heat isn't removed.

i don't disagree with the pump. The D5 is certainly a higher performing pump and would be a better choice, again I wanted to give some variety. The DDC is a good pump as well. Over 12v, not so good but I wouldn't run that pump over 12v anyway.

The DDC is a nice, small and quiet pump. Yes you can quiet down a D5 Vario but then you also lose performance and mind as well go with the DDC... unless you are tinkering on the setup the whole time anyway.

 

[Codisha]

yes, you should be able to mount a 2nd radiator internally.
you could mount a tri rad externally and a dual rad internally by the exhaust fan.

 

[dividebyzero]

That is exactly what I was saying. I prefer a visual que, a reservoir with plexi glass window of some sort that helps me detect the current water level at a glance.

The loop already contains a visual cue -the tubing and the reservoir. The radiator collection tank (or radiator reservoir) obviously does not obviate the need for a dedicated reservoir or fillport. ALL watercooling radiators have as part of their makeup an inlet/outlet tank -that tank is generally made of a metal other than copper (my original point) simply because copper is not a suitable material for threading.

i never mad those statements. i didn't say anything about 7 shrouds and i am not sure if you are refering to my koolance suggestion with your 2nd claim.

Whatever you say chief

Again, I have not suggested that shroud.

Glad we got that sorted out then.

correct, i like nickel better and prefer to make a habit of using it for that very reason. The less mixed metals are in the loop that can oxidize the better, to me anyway. so if you have the option to pick a nickel block then thats the route i would go.

Quick Question:
Largest surface area that the coolant comes into contact with in any watercooling loop?
Answer: The radiator core
Question: How many nickel radiator cores do you know of ? More to the point, what metal is a radiator core made of ?

I was rather under the impression that this is Trillionsin's entry into water cooling, not that his, your or my suggestion would lean towards an entry level system...

Really? I thought this was exactly what you were implying:

...these pumps should suffice since this not going to be a high performance setup but rather an entry into water cooling.

The way I read the OP's post was that they were already knocking on the door of 4GHz CPU speed and multi-GPU. Regardless of Trillionsin's relative inexperience with watercooling, their budget and cooling target clearly (at least to my mind) point to using an enthusiast level of core componentry

You as well ill advised to use a single 360 radiator for a CPU and 2x GPU's. It does not matter much what pump you are using or how many fans you are putting on the radiator, if there is not enough heat removal the heat isn't removed.

Then obviously I'm doing something very wrong-and so are a lot of my contemporaries. Thank you for pointing out the gross error I have been perpetrating for the last eight years.

On that note I'll leave you to your contradictory soapbox oratory

 

[Codisha]

The loop already contains a visual cue -the tubing and the reservoir. The radiator collection tank (or radiator reservoir) obviously does not obviate the need for a dedicated reservoir or fillport. ALL watercooling radiators have as part of their makeup an inlet/outlet tank -that tank is generally made of a metal other than copper (my original point) simply because copper is not a suitable material for threading.

using the tubing as a visual aid because by the time your water level drops in the tubing it's really too late and your pump is already starving. if your pump runs for more then a minute without water it can be damaged beyond warranty.

Whatever you say chief

i really got to be on my toes. yes, my mistake, not shroud per say but radiators.
you would need 2-3 120mm radiator placements.

Quick Question:
Largest surface area that the coolant comes into contact with in any watercooling loop?
Answer: The radiator core
Question: How many nickel radiator cores do you know of ? More to the point, what metal is a radiator core made of ?
what part are you not understanding that i already admitted of not being completely clear this as i should have been. plus, you already mentioned what materials are used and it would be redundant to answer your question. keep it informative instead of sticking to attacks.

Really? I thought this was exactly what you were implying:

The way I read the OP's post was that they were already knocking on the door of 4GHz CPU speed and multi-GPU. Regardless of Trillionsin's relative inexperience with watercooling, their budget and cooling target clearly (at least to my mind) point to using an enthusiast level of core componentry

he could achieve 4.0 ghz with a corsair H50 or H70. no need for this fancy watercooling setup. in fact he could achieve it with a Venomous X or the noctua D-14, no need for water at all.

Then obviously I'm doing something very wrong-and so are a lot of my contemporaries. Thank you for pointing out the gross error I have been perpetrating for the last eight years.

On that note I'll leave you to your contradictory soapbox oratory

a single tri rad will have a hard time cooling a sli setup.
a tri rad can remove up to 400w at optimal condition. the 2 gpu's by itself will dump that much heat into your loop easily.

 

[Trillionsin]

The way I read the OP's post was that they were already knocking on the door of 4GHz CPU speed and multi-GPU. Regardless of Trillionsin's relative inexperience with watercooling, their budget and cooling target clearly (at least to my mind) point to using an enthusiast level of core componentry

Yes, I'll have to admit that once I get a good set up, I will push it to it's limits. I think this is just human nature. lol

a single tri rad will have a hard time cooling a sli setup.
a tri rad can remove up to 400w at optimal condition. the 2 gpu's by itself will dump that much heat into your loop easily.

This is still something I was worried about. With this in mind, I am still confused on the matter.

Lets take this setup for example... lets see if this works.

(1) reservoir > (1) pump > Y Splitter > CPU Block > internal 240 radiator > back to Y splitter > then back to reservoir

^ > GPUs x2 > external 360 radiator> ^​

Hope you guys can understand how I worked that. The > is showing where a tube would connect to each part in the series.

Would it be recommended to run this water cooling system? If not, what can you recommend? If this will work, I would like to order this setup.

So, I am still just a bit confused on this. If I go with compression fittings, do I also need barbs? The way you word it is just a little confusing. Rewording the sentence for me should do the trick, at least. haha

Yep. The barbs are the "nozzles" that the hose fits over and the fitting (compression or clamp) is what secures the hose to the barb.
Barbs in general have a 1/4" screw thread on one end -this screws into the component- radiator/block etc.
Reservoirs and pumps usually include barbs and clamps and are usually of plastic since they screw into plastic or plexiglass/acetyl bodied components. Some CPU blocks, GPU blocks and radiators also ship with barbs, but a lot do not.

Still confused! I need to buy barbs along with the compression fittings? I thought If I bought these compression fittings they were everything included? ...but you are saying I will still have to buy the barbs along with the compression fittings? Two separate purchases? that one purchase could handle?

Would I need 10 compression fittings, and also 10 barbs with the above set up?
I may be a bit off here... I may have to go back and look for you recommended number of fittings... but to find it... arg

 

[dividebyzero]

Lets take this setup for example... lets see if this works....

Simple answer. Yes
You could also go with a single quad (low density) or high density which would give comparable cooling efficiency and less system inertia.

Still confused! I need to buy barbs along with the compression fittings?

The compression fittings are all-in-one. If you go with hoseclamps then you'll need to buy the barbs seperately. (Sorry for the confusion)
So for the system you have outlined above:
EK Spin reservoir - 2 x Compression fittings (2 blanks are included with the res.) -review >>here<<
Pump - come supplied with barbs and clamps- no fittings required.
CPU block - 2 x fittings required (review >>here<<)
2 x Radiator = 4 x fittings required
2 x GPU blocks = 2 x fittings plus 1 x adjustable connector

So a grand total of 10 compression fittings + 1 adjustable connector for the loop you've outlined.

 

[Trillionsin]

Simple answer. Yes
You could also go with a single quad (low density) or high density which would give comparable cooling efficiency and less system inertia.

I believe you posted the same link twice.

I like this idea... so with this.. would i want to take this route?

Res > Pump > CPU block > 2x GPU blocks > 560 Rad > Res

 

[Codisha]

expanding on the rad is a good idea. if you really don't want a 2nd loop then getting a bigger rad will do the trick.

i would not go with the "Y" splitter between the CPU and GPU blocks.
as i mentioned before, the CPU (EK HF) is a lot less restrictive then the 2 GPU blocks will be, naturally the water will take the path of least resistance and your GPU blocks will starve.

for optimum performance i still recommend a separate loop.
the only reason why i recommended the Koolance RP-402X2 over the Koolance RP-452X2 is price and noise. the unit price is about the same but the price for the pump is a bit higher.
it's really up to you and what you think will be worth it. all i was trying say was that the DDC pump series would be a viable option to the D5 setup, if money matter that is.

if you stay away from splitters and have a straight loop then the order in which you place the components won't matter much.
i am like you, i prefer to pump into the cpu block directly but i know many who pump into the res.

 

[dividebyzero]

I believe you posted the same link twice.

Well spotted, so I did. The high density is the GTX

Just for the sake of interest...
This is Xtremesystems review of triple (360) radiators.
Single loop CPU and GPU's only (no MOSFET or chipset blocks)
Core i7 920: 4.2GHz @ 1.35v and GTX 275 SLI (nominal 219w TDP per). Total of 463 watts load.
Pump: Laing D5 w/ EK top @ 18v (mid way between the 12v and 24v nominal voltages for the pump)
Graph shows CPU tempreture above ambient (room temp) for a variety of fan speeds - i.e. add 22°C to each value for actual CPU temp at each fan r.p.m. level.

Normal fan range for a good quality ULV fan (i.e. Noctua NF-P12, Noiseblocker BlackSilent Pro etc.) is 800-1800 rpm.
Just for the record, these temps (at least for the TFC XChanger) correlate very closely with the temps I get off my own system (42-45°C heavy multithreaded gaming load/OCCT, ~15°C over ambient worse case scenario) using Noctua /Noiseblocker fans at ~1200rpm

HWL= HardwareLabs GTX and SR1, SWF= Swiftech MCR320 (standard) MCR-S (Stackable), TFC XC360 (Feser XChanger -the rad I use), TC (ThermoChill).

And this is a graph showing the heat dissipation (in watts-vertical axis) relative to fan speed to keep the water tempreture at 10°C above ambient (room temp.).

 

[Codisha]

oops never mnd

 

[Trillionsin]

Okay now.. after all that... I've had a problem with my two new HD6870s. I am returning them and I have a GTX580 on the way. I will keep this GPU as a single for now, with the thoughts of upgrading later after more experience. This will help keep the budget a tad lower for the liquid cooling system.

Here is what I've put together, and I'm about ready to order... getting restless looking at all these parts online only... ARG

EVGA GTX 580 SuperClocked, Call of Duty: Black Ops Edition Price: $509.99

I went with Black Ops edition because it was cheaper than the other identical card for some reason... Also big fan of Black Ops.

These will also be in the order of the liquid flow.

1. Reservoir Price: $69.95
2. Pump Price: $89.95

3. CPU block Price: $89.95
4. GPU block Price: $154.95

5. Radiator Price: $91.99
*Rad Bracket Price: $52.95
*Rad Shroud Price: $25.95

Other important items:
*10' Tubing Price: $40.00
Silver KillCoil Price: $6.99
6x Fans Price: $124.50
*Thread Sealant Tape Price: $2.00


* Rad bracket is for external mounting outside case, likely on the back.
* I want some extra tubing
* Thread Sealant Tape will be good just in case.


Now, I've thought a lot about fittings. I've decided compression fittings, not a necessary expense, but I think I will really appreciate how each it will be to unscrew them for disassembly.

Bitspower Ultimate G 1/4 Thread 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Rotary Compression Fitting
Two of these for radiator.
Bitspower G1/4 Thread 90-Degree Rotary 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Compression Fitting
Two of these for GPU block
Bitspower G1/4" Silver Shining Dual Rotary 45-Degree Compression Fitting CC4 For ID 1/2" OD 5/8" Tube
Two of these for either the CPU block, or the reservoir
Bitspower G1/4 Thread 90-Degree Rotary 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Compression FittingSame as last.. I will use these however they fit best.
My pump doesnt require any fittings, correct?

Subtotal: $890.00 without graphics card.

***Please, if you see that I am missing anything I will be checking this thread daily... give me a nice warning of my mistake before I order.

Also, If anyone knows... My father works for the city's Water Works. He gave me something called IO water, as far as I could understand anyways... or maybe DI water? Distilled? He says it is non conductive. Can I use just this liquid for my cooling system?

 

[Codisha]

why the:
Bitspower Ultimate G 1/4 Thread 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Rotary Compression Fitting?
there is really no need for a rotary fitting on the rad.
this one would do:
Bitspower G1/4" Thread 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD Compression Fitting - 1/4" Walled Tubing (BP-CPF-CC3

this 90 degree fitting
(BP-90R3CPF-CC4) (list 4th on yours)
is much better as this one
(BP-90R2LCPF-CC4) (listed 2nd on yours)
because of the smooth bend.

i would just get 4 of those

also, you selected 3/8 ID / 5/8 OD tubing but have all 1/2 ID / 5/8 OD fittings.
the tubing won't fit on those. you need 1/2 ID / 5/8 OD tubing for those comp. fittings.

also, i don't comp.fittings for the res.

do you have thermal paste and/or thermal pads for the gpu? the block might come with one. i know many of the EK blocks come with good thermal pads.

distilled water or highly purified water is good and the killcoil will do the rest. if your father can get it, even better. non-conductive is good because it will/ or should prevent your components from burning out in case you have a leak.

 

[dividebyzero]

Wrong tubing or wrong fittings. Your compression fittings are for 1/2" ID 5/8" OD tube, the tubing is 3/8" ID 5/8" OD.
So either replace the tubing with 1/2"ID 5/8" OD, or replace the fittings with 1/2" ID 3/4"OD [here], [here], [here] and [here] respectively.

Don't put anything in the loop you aren't 100% sure about. If you -or your father- can't guarantee the content then it seems pointless setting up a loop and playing Russian roulette with some coolant. The water could be distilled, or it could be de-ionized, or it could be tap water (unless it's sealed). Why spend $900 and skimp on water ?

My pump doesnt require any fittings, correct?

Correct.

 

[Trillionsin]

Thanks.. good catch there... not sure how i screwed that up.

Can you make sense of what this guy is suggesting?

Those fans at 20$ ea i wouldnt buy they are nice case fan but there static pressure is quite low for rad use at 1.68mm h2o, you want a rad fan to have close to 3.0mm h2o pressure even more so on dense rads. I use coolmaster r4's on mine with 69cfm and 2.84mm h20 cost was under 6$ ea.
DONT use any thread tape like t tape as there is always a chance a piece can come off and go into the blocks, they come with o rings and i havent seen any leak when tightened up right.

Edit: sorry missed codisha's post.. I will read it asap and post back... getting ready for work.

 

[Trillionsin]

why the:
Bitspower Ultimate G 1/4 Thread 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Rotary Compression Fitting?
there is really no need for a rotary fitting on the rad.
this one would do:
Bitspower G1/4" Thread 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD Compression Fitting - 1/4" Walled Tubing (BP-CPF-CC3

this 90 degree fitting
(BP-90R3CPF-CC4) (list 4th on yours)
is much better as this one
(BP-90R2LCPF-CC4) (listed 2nd on yours)
because of the smooth bend.

i would just get 4 of those

also, you selected 3/8 ID / 5/8 OD tubing but have all 1/2 ID / 5/8 OD fittings.
the tubing won't fit on those. you need 1/2 ID / 5/8 OD tubing for those comp. fittings.

also, i don't comp.fittings for the res.

do you have thermal paste and/or thermal pads for the gpu? the block might come with one. i know many of the EK blocks come with good thermal pads.

distilled water or highly purified water is good and the killcoil will do the rest. if your father can get it, even better. non-conductive is good because it will/ or should prevent your components from burning out in case you have a leak.

Thanks, I want the variety though. Compression fittings for the res? I'm pretty sure I got enough.. if not, I'll just have to order more. I already put the order through.

You guys want pics of the final project? I mean, you two kinda did help me out step by step. This doesnt mean I'll have more questions when I get all the parts. lol


Yes, he said it is non-conductive.. I am assuming its just distilled water out of a machine they have. He says its really clean water. DI water. Also he tested it with 120VAC but putting bare wires in the water and sticking his hand in it. Ballsy.

 

[Codisha]

i would love to see some pics.

 

[Trillionsin]

I've got most of the parts. They sent me the wrong CPU block, and I still managed to order the wrong size tubing. Oh well.. with that said, the correct items are being shipped. Already piecing what I can together. Just an update.

 

[LinkedKube]

The guy means your fan choices are great for case air flow.not so much for a radiator. They're okay. So don't worry about it much. thread tape is a bit of a waste. As long as you're buying good quality compression fittings you should be fine. I use more than 12 in my setup and have never had a leaking issue.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Trillionsin]

The guy means your fan choices are great for case air flow.not so much for a radiator. They're okay. So don't worry about it much. thread tape is a bit of a waste. As long as you're buying good quality compression fittings you should be fine. I use more than 12 in my setup and have never had a leaking issue.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I ended up getting different types of fans... doing a push/pull type of setup.
Thread tape is always handy whether I use it in this system or not. Not really planning on needing it unless something proves extra difficult.

The compression fittings are very high quality. No wonder they were $10 - 20 dollars a piece. Wow.

 

[LinkedKube]

Yeah I paid 7 usd each for mine. Let us know how it goes.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Trillionsin]

Please go easy on me. This is just in testing phase!

 

[Codisha]

congrats, looks pretty good for a first

maybe shorten that one tube that goes from rad to res, it's sagging a bit down.

leak tested yet?

how do you like the rad mount?
how do you like the fans?
did you end up getting the shroud as well?
how do you like the pump?

 

[Trillionsin]

Yea. I only leak tested for a few hours before i couldnt stand it anymore and turned on my PC.

I will shorten the tubes all around, definitly.

The rad mount is very nice, it's good quality and its easily detachable, so I can take the radiator off and easily fill it or empty it.

I have a shroud, and I'll be able to show off more pics soon. Edit: The shroud seems a bit cheap for the price, and the also feels like a low necessity.

The pump is very silent and seems very powerful. Looks like I have room to expand with this pump as well.

 

[dividebyzero]

Good work. I hope you enjoyed putting it all together, and it serves you well.

The shroud is simply an icing-on-the-cake type piece of equipment. It's there just to ease the low airflow hotspots that are caused by localized limited airflow around the fan hubs. Any cooling difference depends on the fan blade characteristics and fan static pressure vs. radiator fin density.

The D5 pump is about as bulletproof a piece of mainstream computer componentry as you'll likely to find. It will handle pretty much any possible future expansion to the loop that is in keeping with a mainstream desktop watercooling solution.

I notice that the room is carpeted. You may want to invest a few dollars into some fan filters -although some brands can be fairly restrictive and clog up very fast.
SInce attaching and removing conventional filters would be a pain in the a*s, you could look at magnetic filters for ease of use. If you decide to go with this option I would check temps before and after fitting to make sure they were not being too restrictive of airflow. Virtually every wc system I put together has the rads inside a filtered chassis so the problem is alleviated somewhat.
I would definitely invest in some canned air/contact cleaner or a small compressor and air-gun attachment. Radiator efficiency degrades very sharply once dust buildup occurs over the cooling tubes and fins.
On that note. Keep a record of your install date, and set up a maintenance timetable (at least yearly, if not shorter) for flushing the system, replacing fluid, checking of connections. An overlooked part of maintenance for a lot of people is the CPU block-especially the O-ring that seals the two halves of the block together. O-rings have a pretty long life in general terms but I would still, as a matter of course, give everything a good visual inspection and disassemble/clean where necessary.

 

[Trillionsin]

O-rings have a pretty long life in general terms but I would still, as a matter of course, give everything a good visual inspection and disassemble/clean where necessary.

Are you suggesting to replace the rings or that they could go bad without maintenance, or to just actually open up the CPU block to clean it out thoroughly, and to do this at least once a year?

Here is the lastest pic Ive taken: