Interesting.
You said you'll add the Ryzen results later on. I really want to see how Ryzen looks now after it should have gotten quite a few bios updates (like the agesa one). Maybe by then we'll see a bios update for Intel too.
Core i7-7800X vs. 7700K, 6 or 4 Cores for Gaming?
- Thread starter Steve
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You said you'll add the Ryzen results later on. I really want to see how Ryzen looks now after it should have gotten quite a few bios updates (like the agesa one). Maybe by then we'll see a bios update for Intel too.
I'm testing the Ryzen 5 1600 right now. I spent the morning confirming my 7800X results on a different motherboard, found the same results
winjer
Posts: 684 +3,279
The reason for the slow performance in some games is due to the 7800X having higher thread to thread latency. The 7700K still uses the ring bus, and because it only has 4 cores to serve, it has the lowest latency when it comes to core to core communications. Skylake-X uses the Mesh, to communicate between cores. This has the advantage to scale better with large core counts, but it is slower than the ring bus. AMD's Infinity Fabric is somewhat similar to Intel's Mesh, and has the same problem with games and applications that require lots of thread to thread communication.
The thing is, with both AMD and Intel having CPUs with the same "problem", there's a great incentive for game developers to optimize around it. We have already seen a few games, sponsored by AMD, that got patches to improve performance. Here's hopping that more games will follow.
We can also hope that the next generations of CPUs from AMD and Intel will use improved versions of the Infinite Fabric and Mesh, that don't hurt latency so much.
The thing is, with both AMD and Intel having CPUs with the same "problem", there's a great incentive for game developers to optimize around it. We have already seen a few games, sponsored by AMD, that got patches to improve performance. Here's hopping that more games will follow.
We can also hope that the next generations of CPUs from AMD and Intel will use improved versions of the Infinite Fabric and Mesh, that don't hurt latency so much.
AMD core to core communication between 4 cores is faster than Intel's ring bus with 4 cores.
Main difference is that AMD has very fast core to core communication up to 4 cores and somewhat fast communication between two 4 core groups. So up to 8 cores AMD is quite fast. Infinity Fabric really kicks in when core count is above 8 or CCX count is over 2.
This i7-7800X is basically server part with somewhat slow mesh interconnect between Every core. So it's somewhat unsuitable for games, much worse than AMD's double CCX at least when talking about 8 cores or under.
Please test out, 7700k vs ryzen 7 1700.. looking forward to it
Vulcanproject
Posts: 1,702 +3,214
This does confirm my theory that for gaming specifically you are probably better off sticking with high clocked mainstream platforms and chips than expensive HEDT ones, and just change them more often.
HEDT platforms can last longer with more cores and longer support perhaps, but ultimately the larger outlay doesn't often net you much in games. You're better off swapping your mainstream platform every 3-4 years than paying a bunch more and keeping a HEDT one for 6-7
HEDT platforms can last longer with more cores and longer support perhaps, but ultimately the larger outlay doesn't often net you much in games. You're better off swapping your mainstream platform every 3-4 years than paying a bunch more and keeping a HEDT one for 6-7
I would also love to see Ryzen 7 1700 added to this. It is the best Intel/AMD cpu race in YEARS as far as gaming goes at least. We know Ryzen does a bit better in heavy threaded loads but that is only 10-15% of my use. Gaming and simple tasks makes up the other 85-90%. I can sacrifice some time encoding if it means higher fps, especially higher minimums, in games.
Great work on this. It is the most comprehensive CPU face off I've seen due to the amount of games tested. This is why we need the ~$300 AMD counterpart (1700) added to this. Would be an excellent reference point.
The other thing that would make this great is adding in 1440p. I know this is asking a lot but I'd think people in the i7 range generally also go for mid-high end other parts including monitors. I would think i5 users are more likely to be on 1080p. I understand that 1440 can create a gpu bottleneck and therefore is not as cpu dependent but it would show a good real world comparison for people with 1440@144hz monitors.
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elites2012
Posts: 65 +7
WTG intel. you now how the gaming programmers not wanting to write games that are multi core aware over 4 cores.
Steve,
I've come across a very strange behavior in the CPU.
After watching your comparison and checking my performance I noticed that I was getting a lot more performance than you. I do not think that the cache hierarchy is the only problems here.
It is more of a latency problem of the new mesh interconnect. After I noticed that I just tried to look for the mesh frequency in the bios and there I found that it was just running at 2400mhz. After an oc to 3000mhz the performance was now what I expected out of a skylake core.
I'm new here but I still urge you to oc the mesh/ring frequency and see for yourself what can be achieved because one the memory latency is around 60 to 70ns you should see the performance. An oc of 4,2 to 4,5 would then also yield the expected performance increase instead of showing no effect at all. Anyway great review as always . Mike
I've come across a very strange behavior in the CPU.
After watching your comparison and checking my performance I noticed that I was getting a lot more performance than you. I do not think that the cache hierarchy is the only problems here.
It is more of a latency problem of the new mesh interconnect. After I noticed that I just tried to look for the mesh frequency in the bios and there I found that it was just running at 2400mhz. After an oc to 3000mhz the performance was now what I expected out of a skylake core.
I'm new here but I still urge you to oc the mesh/ring frequency and see for yourself what can be achieved because one the memory latency is around 60 to 70ns you should see the performance. An oc of 4,2 to 4,5 would then also yield the expected performance increase instead of showing no effect at all. Anyway great review as always . Mike
Do you get the same/similar numbers as me with the stock settings?
Yes, my stock results are in line with yours.
Maybe you could try rebenching with a mesh OC, and see whether you get an improvement too.
Mesh oc does increase the temps though.
I wouldn't say wrong, it is the new arch.
Due to the slower interconnect, accessing the cores is slower, larger lv 2 is slower, smaller lv3 is non inclusive and slower, meaning everything rests on the mesh's speed.
Speeding that up, brings you closer to the desired and known skylake performance.
Bad car analogy: It is like having the most powerful engine(skylake/kabylake cores) but no way to really transfer the power onto the street due to bad tires or whatever (here mesh speed).
So I'm confused. I don't know what processor to get. I have a 1080 Ti FTW3 with a 5820k processor. It just doesn't work as well as the 7700k in the games I play and sometimes it's very noticeable. I see the new processors have come out from intel and I ordered a 7820x, cancelled and then ordered a 7800x, and now I cancelled that after reading this. I just want the best processor that makes sense money wise for my 1080Ti and right now, to me, that seems to be a 7700k. I don't mind spending $600ish and I don't mind having to switch to another Z270 motherboard and switching out my RAM to make it compatible with a Z270 board, but I can't, for the life of me at this moment, justify switching to the x299 platform and the new 7820 or 7800x over the 7700k when my main purpose is gaming and on the side a little video editing in Adobe but nothing major. Would love your thoughts as soon as possible. I mainly game at 1440p. My PC specs are below.
My PC:
1. I7-5820K - $390
2. Asus X99-A/USB3.1
Motherboard - $250
3.) GTX 1080Ti FTW3 - $830
4.). RAM = 32GB Corsair 4x8GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000 Black - $275
5.) Samsung 850 Evo 1TB 2.5 inch SATA III SSD - $350
6.) Power Supply -Corsair HXi Series, HX1000i, 1000 Watt (1000W), Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Platinum Certified - $200
7.). Corsair Hydro H105 Liquid Cooler
CPU Cooler - $105
Pioneer Bluray Burner - $80
9.) Microsoft Windows 10 - $90
My PC:
1. I7-5820K - $390
2. Asus X99-A/USB3.1
Motherboard - $250
3.) GTX 1080Ti FTW3 - $830
4.). RAM = 32GB Corsair 4x8GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000 Black - $275
5.) Samsung 850 Evo 1TB 2.5 inch SATA III SSD - $350
6.) Power Supply -Corsair HXi Series, HX1000i, 1000 Watt (1000W), Fully Modular Power Supply, 80+ Platinum Certified - $200
7.). Corsair Hydro H105 Liquid Cooler
CPU Cooler - $105
Pioneer Bluray Burner - $80
9.) Microsoft Windows 10 - $90
I was in the same situation, trust me, lost a lot of sleep over that
Still, I would advise you to reconsider the 7800x, it has the single core perf of an 7700K when clocked high enough. It is just the tinkering needed to get it to the desired level of performance.
Mainly the mesh-clock/uncore that needs to be increased to at least 3Ghz+ to get it moving.
I was in the same situation, trust me, lost a lot of sleep over that
Still, I would advise you to reconsider the 7800x, it has the single core perf of an 7700K when clocked high enough. It is just the tinkering needed to get it to the desired level of performance.
Mainly the mesh-clock/uncore that needs to be increased to at least 3Ghz+ to get it moving.
I'll consider it. I just need to do more research and learn. So you think the 7800 vs the 7820 if I go that route? Why so? I'm running a 5820k right now.
Go with the 7820X it is worth the money, just keep it around 4,2 to 4,5Ghz all cores turbo and it should be coolable. The extra 200 to 300mhz are not worth it.
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