CPU cooler clearance

[dividebyzero]

about a year ago I got into a great conversation with a rep at Newegg that said to me that 93% of the components RMA'd were components that were functioning perfectly well.
-buying incompatible parts
-not looking at QVL's
-taking the PSU out of the box, plugging it into the wall, and returning it because it didn't start up (thats my favorite):haha:
-various other not knowing what they are doing , or reading instructions
- buyers remorse
...etc etc
add a few more percent for damaged in shipment and you start to get the idea where a lot of these "Brand X Sucks man!" comments come from.

Eminently believeable. Add in bogus returns from overclocking adventures and I'd say the 93% is close to the mark. Likewise I'd say that for the most part, the numbers for each vendor/model/SKU returned under those conditions should be roughly equal - the obvious exceptions would be where a vendor has deliberately left out pertinent information knowing the customer will assume a certain feature set- case in point being non-reference HD 6950's that started shipping without the BIOS switch to deter shader/memory flashing.
So, if the majority of non-RMA returns could be assumed to be roughly equal, they should in theory have little bearing on the percentages when compared vendor-to-vendor, just the percentages of returns-to-shipped units

Regarding the Hardware.fr article....I guess France aren't included in Diamond or VisionTek's sales markets huh?

 

[red1776]

I get a 404 when I try to link that article Chef.
That sounds about right though. I figured out a while back that I could get away with buying some open box stuff. I have never had to return one of them. I bet they do not even test them for function, just look for physical damage. The only things you cant get open box (besides PSU's) is ram. It has a higher failure rate than the others...but i would bet you a large % is damaged by people trying to cram it in the dimm with the notch on the wrong side, and running across the carpet with it in hand to show their buddy the cool heat-sink! ROFL.

 

[nfiniti9]

I just noticed in the artice they mentioned the P5N-D. I have one of those dead at work. Yeah industry-wide accepted failure rates are around 2% except for hard drives. They do cost-analysis on how much it would cost to get under 1% or drop to 3-4%. The money spot is around 2%. Read a huge article on this. Of course this was motherboards, but it generally applies to most computer parts. This was years ago so I don't know if its that valid now. It does seem failure rates are higher these days, especially in the high end components. Of course I could be biased by all the 3 and 4 series Intel chips I had to deal with and the SB fiasco.

You want to know something funny, I've actually seen more issues with Intel made boards than any of the brand names. They have some strange issues sometimes.

 

[nfiniti9]

That would be the bit-tech review I assume. Not the most flattering. Hardly surprising with the fan choice. Sharkoon Silent Eagle 1000 x 2...the website lists 64.8m³ flow rate - a quick conversion to cfm gives us 37.7. Not the most vigorous of airflows I would suspect...always pays to check the fine print.

Talking of reviews, Kyle and Co. just threw this board under a bus.....Wouldn't be the Asus and MSI sponsorship of their upcoming "Texas GamExperience" jizzfest coming into play...would it?
(Personally I rate [H] only slightly above Tom's on the paid shill-o-meter...but that's me) :suspiciou

[H] is a bit of a mystery really. They have thrown some companies under the bus that do a bit of advertising with them but seem to favor other companies. I wouldn't put them in the bought category but they do seem biased sometimes.

 

[dividebyzero]

I get a 404 when I try to link that article Chef.

If you get on to the Hardware.fr site, it's in the "articles" section- dated 20/04/2011.

Re: the RAM. Sending back Crucial Ballistix modules was for a time an international sporting event (HEY! how did that damp facecloth end up draped over those sticks!...why, they could....could....die...oops!). Some people (who may, or may not be me) took exception when Crucial decided to change their IC's from D9GKX and GMH -double sided to D9DQT and later (single sided) without telling anyone, so people tended to invent mobo compatibility faults (it worked on the earlier modules- doesn't work with these later ones) and Crucial sent out GMH replacement kits...at least until the stock ran out.
The difference for overclockers when FSB was all important was that the earlier modules could relatively easily run at DDR2-1000 3-4-4 or close to DDR2-1150-1200 at 5-5-5-15. The later modules generally topped out at 900-950 4-4-4-12 or 1150 5-5-5-15 (with a good RAM overclock board i.e. Asus Commando or Giga P35-DQ6)

This is what DGH / GKX's are capable of
( Just for the record DDR2-1038 @ 3-3-3-8 isn't a workable set of timings for any length of time)

 

[red1776]

This is what DGH / GKX's are capable of
( Just for the record DDR2-1038 @ 3-3-3-8 isn't a workable set of timings for any length of time)

what!? 2T PFFFFFT!:haha:
Wow, was that one of your experiments? what voltage was being run through those poor things?

I have to wonder how much of what we pay for this stuff is the exorbitant return rates. Gary at Micro center here told me that he gets CPU's returned (or at least attempted all the time. The failure rate of CPU's these days is slim to none...and as you say...slim left town.

 

[dividebyzero]

~ 2.5-2.6v I would expect. Nvidia chipset board so no memory divider- endless tweaking opportunities.
Relax the timings out, and keep the voltage close to normal spec and viola...DDR2-1400 . (board is a Giga P45-UD3)

I haven't personally run across any FC-LGA Intel CPU that arrived DOA, or failed in any stock/"normal" OC setting. I've replaced a couple of X6800's that were run on the ragged edge (4+GHz 24/7 no C1E, no EIST) for around 3 years, and a friend of mine got a suspect Q6xxx (6700 I think) back in the day, but since his board was flaky from the start (MSI go figure) I wouldn't be 100% sure of blaming the CPU. Except for a couple of eBay bent-pin jobs, the AMD CPU's I've had/fitted have been problem free as well.

 

[andy06shake]

Final build i went with was

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz
Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB
Akasa AK-CCX-4002HP Venom CPU Cooler

In the end i scrapped the Sabertooth idea because of the Thermal Shield, it needed a top down cooler and the Thermal Armour gets some bad reviews. Supposedly it traps heat rather than disapate it. Hope i dont lose my side mounted fan on my Antec 900 because i need to acomadate thie AKasa cooler but i can allways mount it on the outside of the case.

 

[red1776]

nice, did you choose a GPU yet?

 

[captaincranky]

Hope i dont lose my side mounted fan on my Antec 900 because i need to acomadate thie AKasa cooler but i can allways mount it on the outside of the case.

You might be able to have your side fan and eat it too, so long as you're willing to pay the price.

The Cooler Master HAF 922: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197 (Mid tower), is inordinately wide. In fact, it's actually wider than a "HAF X".

Haven't researched how much distance would be between the motherboard, ( when mounted and where the bottom of a side fan(s), would be. Perhaps a more ambitious soul than myself would care to look into that.

I just thought I'd stir this case offering into the mix, to keep the cooler clearance discussion going.

Me? I have an Antec 900 also, but am less disposed of needing such extravagant cooling solutions.

 

[red1776]

The 922 has just shy of 8.0" inches from MB to side panel. You could get any cooler on the market in 922 height wise
The 932 is an inch less in width and I have a Silver Arrow in there with the 230mm x 30mm fan on the inside panel. ( the 932 is only $150 right now)

Me? I have an Antec 900 also, but am less disposed of needing such extravagant cooling solutions.

Fine...don't come crying when that IGP overheats!:wave:

 

[nfiniti9]

The 922 has just shy of 8.0" inches from MB to side panel. You could get any cooler on the market in 922 height wise
The 932 is an inch less in width and I have a Silver Arrow in there with the 230mm x 30mm fan on the inside panel. ( the 932 is only $150 right now)



Fine...don't come crying when that IGP overheats!:wave:

922 looks like it uses tin instead of steel. Ever notice it does't look coated like the 912 or 932? I like the 912 better, it also doesnt have the power button on the top. I'd end up hitting it or someone would im sure.

i know its steel it just looks kinda cheap compared to the other HAF, wonder why they did that?

 

[nfiniti9]

Final build i went with was

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz
Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB
Akasa AK-CCX-4002HP Venom CPU Cooler

In the end i scrapped the Sabertooth idea because of the Thermal Shield, it needed a top down cooler and the Thermal Armour gets some bad reviews. Supposedly it traps heat rather than disapate it. Hope i dont lose my side mounted fan on my Antec 900 because i need to acomadate thie AKasa cooler but i can allways mount it on the outside of the case.

Pretty sure you will lose the side fan. I just measured on mine and it looks like you will hit the top corner.

 

[red1776]

922 looks like it uses tin instead of steel. Ever notice it does't look coated like the 912 or 932? I like the 912 better, it also doesnt have the power button on the top. I'd end up hitting it or someone would im sure.

i know its steel it just looks kinda cheap compared to the other HAF, wonder why they did that?

Who knows, The whole HAF9xxx line is sort of an odd animal. I have the 932 and the interior layout and flow are great....but it looks like it can't decide on what it wants to be. Kind of an industrial- military- meets Frank Lloyd wright affair :haha:

 

[captaincranky]

about a year ago I got into a great conversation with a rep at Newegg that said to me that 93% of the components RMA'd were components that were functioning perfectly well.
-buying incompatible parts
-not looking at QVL's
-taking the PSU out of the box, plugging it into the wall, and returning it because it didn't start up (thats my favorite):haha:
-various other not knowing what they are doing , or reading instructions
- buyers remorse

...etc etc

add a few more percent for damaged in shipment and you start to get the idea where a lot of these "Brand X Sucks man!" comments come from.

See, this is where I don't understand why Newegg calls the people that do reviews their, "experts". It seems pretty ballsey to run an ad campaign around a bunch of imbeciles who find attaching an Intel HSF an insurmountable task.

As far as my personal confessional goes, I've never receives a DOA computer part, period. Anything that's been broken, I've broken it.

I'm no Giga-hater I just think at some point you have to speak up with your wallet.

Yeah well, in your case, it appears that fairly soon, you may run out of brands not to buy. And then it's back to the abacus. To the upside, they don't require coolers or pictures of balls, so maybe we can all get some relief.

 

[nfiniti9]

Yeah well, in your case, it appears that fairly soon, you may run out of brands not to buy. And then it's back to the abacus. To the upside, they don't require coolers or pictures of balls, so maybe we can all get some relief.

Sadly its true. After the massive 7-8 series failure I'd like to do the same with nVidia but I run Linux and its just not worth it to run AMD. But after chatting here I think I may give Giga a shot again. Going to get the Z68 UD5 and give it a go. I haven't used any but the low end Z68 Gigabyte boards yet.

 

[captaincranky]

Who knows, The whole HAF9xxx line is sort of an odd animal. I have the 932 and the interior layout and flow are great....but it looks like it can't decide on what it wants to be. Kind of an industrial- military- meets Frank Lloyd wright affair :haha:

You mean like, "Frank Lloyd Reich---stag"....? :haha:

 

[dividebyzero]

Also note the kicking they gave the Gigabyte GTX 560 this week- citing no voltage control on the Gigabyte software, and going no further after finding out Riva Tuner wasn't updated for 275.33 drivers. Considering they aren't adverse to downloading and using Afterburner, it seems strange that they didn't try using the software with the Giga card...much the same as HT4U and TweakPC did with their review samples...maybe something else for the Too [H]ard Basket for Kyle.

And now for your viewing pleasure...
The Asus DCII GTX 560 Ti.....The Asus marketplace competitor to the Gigabyte offering. Crank up the OC with Smart Doctor !....think "Smart Doctor" is holding you back?, well there's always "GPU Tweak".....still not enough OC! Bring on Afterburner !
Of course, what's a 20+% overclock without benches against a stock clocked competitior (the overpriced stiff being the 2GB 6950 in this case rather than the much cheaper-and similarly performing- 1GB version).
Wow! Max OC Asus card beats stock non-Asus offering and gains the (possibly) coveted [H] Gold Award- I'm shocked and stunned !

At this point in time, I'm expecting Kyle's BD review to look something like this:

FX-8150 + Asus Crossfire V Extreme + Asus HD 6970 DCII (CFX) versus Intel PIII 800 + Intel 815 board w/ integrated graphics