Get Ubuntu online or uninstall it

By circusboy01
Dec 20, 2010
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  1. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    They do, sorry for that.

    Virus' can exist in two places; the wild, and in the lab.

    Virus' exist in both places for Linux, but the last time I read an article I believe only 40 or so virus' had been officially recognised as being in the wild. By "the wild" I mean in the internet, and there is a possibility of infection, but the likelihood of that happening is very low, after all, many millions of virus' exist for Windows platforms.

    EDIT:
    Virus' that exist in the lab are known virus', in a secured environment and not available in the wild.
    Virus' that exist in the wild are known virus' that are found online, and could be anywhere at any given point.

    Your emails will be fine. I regularly use gmail in both Linux and Windows without any issues whatsoever. If you log into your email through the browser, nothing will need changing in Linux - Just carry on the same way as you do now. :)

    Your music will also play fine. You might need to install "mp3" codecs, which you'll be asked to do the first time you play a MP3 music file, but other than that, they'll work just the same.

    I would however recommend you move your music collection to a physical hard disk (your data partition I suggested is an ideal place for files like these), as flash drives are known to fail and/or corrupt.

    Some Windows based AV software is available for Linux, but I would highly recommend BitDefender free, which I use on all my Linux installs. Its totally free, and a reputable company that performs very well in AV tests and reviews.

    No problems with the advice, I'm always happy to help people decide if Linux is for them, or not as the case sometimes is. :)
  2. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8


    Right now for protection I have= Avast 5. Ccleaner. Malwarebytes. Superantispyware. Spywareblaster. Spybot S&D. Hijack This. Adblock Plus. and Wot.
    Would BitDefender replace all of these? Or. Would I have to install other things to go with it?

    Leeky; I'm also a member of WorldStart Message Boards. It's Forums just like this is You ought to check it out.They could use a guy like you. Again Thanks CB

    A few days later Wed.29th.I ordered my wireless card. Should be here in about a week. Guess I wont have anymore questions for a while. But. I'm sure to have a lot.After I get the card CB
  3. The average desktop user does not need an antivirus on a GNU/Linux system. In fact there is probably nothing much more pointless that you could install by any stretch of the imagination...

    The simple answer is: No you don't need any equivalents of those programs. (Though you can still install adblock plus in firefox if you wish)

    Ensure your system is kept up to date and you'll be fine. Choose a strong root password and never do anything silly like running a desktop environment, window manager or any other programs as root. The only programs you should need to run as root on a daily basis are package managers (apt, aptitude dpkg, etc).

    Programs like ClamAV are simply not needed for the average desktop user. They are mainly for server usage, especially samba servers that host files used by windows clients.

    If you're running behind a router, you'll be ok and won't need a firewall either.

    On the offchance that one of these fabled Linux viruses did manage to infect your machine, there is not much it could do to the system unless you were to execute it as root.
  4. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    Caravel,

    I personally think not having an anti-virus is selfish on the part of the Linux user. Its nothing against you, but my thoughts on it are the following:

    Linux is pretty much virus free, and as you also pointed out, they rarely can run unless given root permissions, but that doesn't stop a Linux user spreading them inadvertently to Windows users, or even other computers on their network.

    It is precisely that reason I recommend an anti-virus solution when asked - nobody wants to be the bearer of viruses for anyone, least a friend or work colleague.

    To suggest its pointless borders, in my opinion, on insanity - its almost as profound as the statement you made in your second sentence above.
  5. The 'insanity' is in actually running a program to protect others that should make the effort to protect themselves. If users want to run Windows, that's their business. If I send them a file, it's actually their responsibility to scan it with their own AV program and ensure that it's malware free. It's not a GNU/Linux user's responsibility to run what can be potentially useless software on their OS, to safeguard irresponsible or ignorant Windows users.

    There is nothing that runs by default on MS Windows that accommodates GNU/Linux or *BSD nix users - indeed Windows likes nothing better than to nuke bootloaders and does not recognise any nix file systems by design.

    The next crucial point is, that there are few cases where a GNU/Linux user would be sending binaries (the main sources of embedded viruses) to a Windows user - due to binary incompatibility. Usually one would send colleagues/friends/family a link and have them download a program for their own specific architecture, rather than actually emailing it or burning it to disk and giving it to them.

    Certain people in certain cases may need this - for example if you're a Linux user and you support family and friends that use Windows without an internet connection - downloading files for them on your machine, burning them to disk and installing them on the Windows machine(s). But such cases are going to be very rare (lets face it, the vast majority of non techy users buy computers to go on the net with anyway?) and would hardly apply in a general sense to all desktop users would it?

    Networks with samba sharing, and especially mail servers, is another matter, but in the former case if those machines on the network are only sharing an internet connection (i.e. connected to the same router or switch) and not files (i.e. samba is not configured or running and no file sharing is occurring) there is no reason the GNU/Linux boxes would need to run an AV program to somehow protect the Windows boxes. Almost pointless for the desktop user.
  6. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    I can assure you that I, like most people would feel very differently if someone sent me a virus in an email, and then said it was my responsibility - Your effectively saying the person sending it shouldn't care less if it contains a virus, and it should in fact be the receiver that deals with it, and the effects caused by it are their issue.

    While the responsibility is in large part to the receiver, to ensure its safe, the sender also has a responsibility to ensure files being sent by email are virus free - Not using Windows doesn't magically take those responsibilities away.

    Its not just a Linux thing, its an OS thing, full stop.

    For far too long people have shot down the idea of not having an AV with Solaris, BSD, Linux, OS X, the list is never ending, and nobody ever considers the implications of not having AV protection for those they electronically deal and communicate with on a regular basis.

    P.S. My understanding is that the majority of email viruses are spread via infected image files, and other common file types, which is the same information these posts are made using, because they common to every single platform, regardless of OS.
  7. That's a rather exaggerated way of looking at this. I can think of very few occasions where I as a Linux user would need to send a windows user a windows binary via email. Lets just suppose they did, then yes it's their responsibility to check it for malware. Even if I were to scan it with an up to date anti virus program on the windows user's behalf and if the windows user were to then scan it, neither of us could guarantee it would be malware free anyway.

    This thread seems to be heading into corporate territory, which is a whole new ball game, where politics, accountability and blame shifting is a big part of why AV software is used. I don't think we need to get into that any further here as in this case we are discussing AV for the every day desktop user.

    Regardless of this, if windows user Joe sends windows user John virus infested email, does he open the attachment and then rant at Joe for not scanning it? Of course not, it's his system, he can secure it and it's his decision which emails to open.

    Sorry, but this is just nonsense. I invite you to try and spout this on any reputable GNU/Linux or BSD nix community forum and see what kind of reception you get. By your logic the rest of us have to suffer running AV bloatware on a bog standard desktop machine, because MS ships a crappy product and some users think it's other people's responsibility to manage their security / malware protection for them? Why do you think these Windows users have a plethora of AV and anti malware products available?

    None of which is executable under GNU/Linux and which Windows users should have an antivirus program for.

    I suppose the next thing you're going to come up with is that it's us 1 or 2% of Linux or BSD nix users that are responsible for propagating all these viruses to the poor windows users?

    Linux or BSD based mail servers usually always run some kind of AV program to protect windows clients. samba servers, again, these benefit from server side AV protection but don't necessarily need it (client side AV should be just as effective and is still required anyway - needless duplication?), also benefit. A normal desktop user certainly does not need an AV program.

    I'm sorry Leeky, you seem to be a decent and respected member here and personally I see you as a likeable character, but when you are posting something that is so fundamentally wrong, I cannot just shut up and agree with you.

    Regards

    C
  8. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    Is it really that exaggerated though?

    I agree a large proportion of the responsibility is on the receiver of the email, but my point is that some responsibility also remains with the sender as well.

    To me it seems the "right" thing to do, but I accept my views, like everyone elses are not always shared alike - Would be kinda boring if we all agreed the same things.

    Are we bringing that into discussion? I was speaking mearly from a desktop users standpoint, and the only reference I made was colleague, but it wasn't with the intention of bringing it up as a "corporate" discussion.

    There are two things that immediately come to mind as I read your response to this:

    1. AV software is hotly discussed on most forums. It usually ends up many pages long with arguments from both sides of the field.
    2. AV software is hardly bloat-worthy on the majority of Linux installs. My BitDefender barely consumes 8MB of RAM - hardly a killer on any PC with 1GB of RAM or more.

    It makes very little (none noticeably) different to resource demands in the majority of cases on Linux installs, in my experience, with all different kinds of hardware. Most AV's are well streamlined, take sod all resources, and you barely notice they're even there in all fairness.

    I still also feel that the sensible option is to run AV software on every desktop, regardless of OS. Just because your running it, doesn't mean it has to compromise the performance of your desktop.

    I realise Windows is a magnet for virus/malware, and that is why so many companies compete from what is an essentially huge market for Windows users, at home and commercially. I never doubted, nor argued this to begin with.

    That would be rather outrageous. I don't somehow believe (given your comments below) that you think I'd suggest that, so I'll put that down to "effect".

    Maybe it is needless, but as I've understood it (with my limited commerical knowledge I will admit) this has always been the case of both the server, and networked computers having AV.

    There is no need to say sorry; I like a strong debate over topics of interest. Neither do I expect you to just agree, it would make for a rather boring discussion and well, if we all liked and agreed on the same things the world we live in would be mundane.

    To me its not about being right or wrong, its about a bit of both. You have very valid points in all your posts, but I also feel that some of mine are very valid too. It also makes the discussion stimulating, rather than sounding like a rant, which my comments are most certainly not meant to come across as.

    I appreciate your thoughtful sentiments in your last paragraph though, thank you.
  9. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    You two would be in big trouble for Hijacking my Thread.Had this been the Worldstart PC asked and answered forum.So watch it! Just kidding. They think it's a big deal when a thread is taken over. Personally I don't mind.especially if it's debates like the one the two of you had. It gives me the opportunity to learn.'
    Got A few Questions/comments on this.Plus I got my wireless card in my computer. Questions about that.
    But I've got things to do first So I'll save it for my next post CB
  10. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    Its not really off-topic per-say, its more an addition to questions you answered, and mine, and Caravel's thoughts on the original response I made earlier in the thread to you regarding AV protection.

    I suppose you could say you should have started a new thread to ask the AV question, but in my mind it doesn't seem too bad when your continuing a discussion. Our posts are debating the "essential" use of the AV software you asked about.

    I look forward to hearing from you soon, and finding out how your getting on with your new wireless card. :)
  11. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    I agree with you 100 %. But over at Worldstart they would see it differen't.

    but thats not important. What is is ME and MY problems:D

    I may decide to go without AV as Caravel suggests.Although,being a long time windows user, the thought of going without protection is kind of scary.
    If I do decide to go with AV then I need you to answer my original question. Would Bit Defense replace All of the AVs I'm using now?

    On to my wireless card. I got the EDIMAX (unless the E is a Sideways M) Wireless 802.11b/g Turbo Mode PCI adapter.Which is one of the two you showed me.I got it into my computer O.K. ( unless after reading this you tell me I didn't)
    My problem is with the install DVD
    I put it in got it going and pressed English.At first things were going great I was going along clicking enter whenever I was prompted.Until it came to where it said Select a network connection you wish to connect to.Then click next.
    If the wireless connection you wish to connect to isn't listed click rescan to refresh the network list.
    It only shows one choice.SSID Signal BSSID CH Encryption Authentication type. It doesn't work.(you can't click on it) You can't scan for other networks because the rescan button doesnt work Also the Next button doesn't work the only thing that does work is Exit.
    I tried it with my stick plugged in so I was already connected to the internet,and with the stick disconnected,so I wasn't on the internet. Didn't work either way.
    What do you think might be wrong Thanks CB
  12. To be completely clear, there is no harm in you installing an AV program - my worry is in you believing that having an AV program is necessary on a GNU/Linux desktop. It simply is not. In a practical sense, there are no Linux viruses and windows viruses cannot harm a Linux system..

    The other programs you use, such as the registry cleaners, anti spywares and other programs are not needed under Linux. I have already answered your question a few posts previously: You can install adblock in firefox, but you don't need any more protection than that.

    I would advise that you plug in a wired connection to your router first and sort out your wireless issues later on. Models and brands are unimportant when considering a wireless NIC, it's the actual chipset that matters, i.e. broadcom, intel, ralink, etc. Buying a certain model of a brand on recommendation can be misleading as in some cases one model can have two or more different hardware revisions, which equates to different chipsets. You can usually find out the chipset by doing

    Code:
    lsusb
    or
    Code:
    lspci
  13. That's fine, but what seems to be the "right thing to do" to you, may be wrong, or even deeply offensive to some (really). Your argument seems to come from the perspective that we as Linux users need to accommodate MS. I'm sure you don't mean this, but that is how it will come across to many.

    It may be hotly discussed on Windows forums or forums like techspot, but not on linux forums. It's probably one of the least discussed subjects.

    I've been at the debian forums for four years and have never seen anyone recommending AV software to a desktop user.

    I've also never seen AV software recommended to desktop users at other sites such as linuxquestions, debianhelp, fedora forums and others.

    The only other place, besides this, I've seen AV software recommended is at the UF and this is worrying but hardly surprising. The only advice I can give you is to take what you read at the UF with a large pinch of salt. The UF is a place where myths, canonical corporate policies and other fallacy are propagated all too readily to suite a corporate marketing agenda. It was a great site back in 2006 when I joined, but had long since turned into totalitarian and oppressive place when I 'left'. BTW if you ever manage to tear yourself away from the 'buntu family, it will be nice to see you at the debian forums some time. You will learn more from using debian in 2 weeks than you would learn from using Ubuntu for 2 years. No exaggeration.

    That's true in a sense, but you're assuming that everyone runs up to date hardware, which is a fallacy. You're also forgetting the cpu cycles that AV programs often use up due to active scanning. Yes you can turn off active scanning on most AV programs, but then what's the point? However big or small a program is, if you don't need to run it, why run it?

    It will compromise performance if it's running as with any process, you can call this negligible but anyway - as above.

    As I've said before, Windows users install their own AV programs. Running an AV program on your Linux box, for the offchance that you might inadvertently email someone over a virus is overkill. It's up to the individual user of course and I'm not suggesting for one minute you should not be running an AV, but it should never be touted on messageboards to new Linux users as the done thing, standard procedure or "sensible".

    No intention to cause offence, but it's as outrageous as your proposal that every OS, windows or not, should run an AV program to protect windows and it's hapless users. That is outrageous.

    In a commercial environment, with 100% windows servers and workstations AV both server and client side is essential - no doubt about it. A network admin that doesn't install a fully supported AV package won't be in his job for long.

    Where the servers are Linux based, server side AV is still required for file sharing and the mail server(s). For those rare cases where every server and workstation is Linux based, yes this is the rare case where you argument does hold some validity, every server and workstation would still need AV, because clients could still be emailing files outside their organisation (emailing binaries happens much more often in a corporate setting).

    For the home user that does not do any of this, nor who is liable for any damage caused, AV is generally not needed.

    No problem.
     
  14. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8


    Thanks for responding caravel; If you look back at my earlier posts you will see my problem with a wired connection.

    I don't have a clue how to find out about the chip sets by doing the codes below.
    But. The instructions say it's 64bit compatible,and supports Windows 7.So I would think it's the right one

    Code:
    lsusb
    or
    Code:
    lspci
    [/QUOTE]

    Now I feel that I installed the card correctly ( it's not that complicated) and I'm guessing that the CD=ROM that came with it running as long as it did shows that it's installed correctly. But I'm far from being an expert.If the card wasn't seated in the slot properly would the CD-ROM even work at all? In other words. Do you think, maybe I need to take the tower apart again to check? I really don't want to. That's why I'm asking. To make sure I wouldn't just be wasting my time CB
  15. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    @Circusboy01,
    Are we installing this in Windows, or in Linux at the moment mate?

    @Caravel,
    Which debian forum are you referring too? I might just take up your offer and have a nosey - I'm always happy to learn more about Linux. :)
  16. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    Tried to install in windows. My earlier post explains how things went. Also Switched over to Ubunto, and tried to install it. Put the CD-ROM in. But.Didn't know how to make it come on screen
    You said in an earlier post (way back towards the beginning) that this wireless card would work both in windows and in Linux. Does that mean a separate install for each OS?
  17. http://forums.debian.net

    I will have to PM you some advice about this.
  18. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    Leeky Haven't heard back from you. Guess your gone for a while.I'm going to remove the wireless card from my computer and reinstall it. Perhaps I didn't get it seated properly or something. If that doesn't fix it I'll be waiting for your help. I'll post the results. Thanks,CB
  19. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    Sorry mate, I've been so busy with studying, fixing my car, and recovering from being ill. I've got like two big assignments due in the next 2 days, and its taking up so much time.

    Let me know if that works or not, and we'll go from there to get you sorted mate. I've set a reminder to review this thread when I finish my studying a bit later on.

    Once again sorry dude.
  20. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    No need to apologize; I don't want to take you from your studies, I sure don't want you trying to help me when your not feeling well,and I know what it's like to be without a car.So get back to me when you can. It might be a day or two before I try the reinstall anyway. Hope you and your car get better soon. CB
  21. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    I'm pretty much back to normal (minus a voice, which the missus sure is enjoying!), and the car is in pieces waiting for the brake parts to arrive so I can overhaul them, so its just studying in the way. I have two days to complete an assignment I've really not had chance to get into yet, so stressing over that mainly. :haha:

    Get back to me when you've tried the un-install, remove, then re-fit and re-install in Windows and we'll go from there dude. :)
  22. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    Haven't done the uninstall yet. But I was just on Ubuntu and I saw something I guess I missed before I'm thinking maybe if I fill in the correct blanks I might get connected.
    (Sorry kind of lengthy) A little thing looks kind of like a little tornado with a red vertical line in it. When I hover over it I get"no network connections" When I click on it I get a grey box with. "VPN Connections "At the bottom. When I hover over the words I get "Configure VPN.." out to the left side when I click on it I get. "Network connections" across top..
    Under that,Wired | Wireless | Mobile BroadBand | VPN | DSL'
    You know what this is way too lengthy.I'm sure your familiar with what I'm talking about And if it will help me get connected or not Before I try to reinstall I'll wait for your comments on this and give you more info if needed. thanks again CB
  23. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    Your best bet is to use Windows to get Wireless working, and then you can use that to download the files you need to get your Linux wireless working, hopefully. :haha:

    I've a busy day fixing the car tomorrow (total brakes overhaul), and I've got several computers sat here needing various things doing to them, but I'll be around from tomorrow evening, for the next few days, so we'll see if we can get you sorted.

    How did you get on with the efforts to try the un-install, removal, and then install you were going to do with Windows mate?
  24. circusboy01

    circusboy01 TechSpot Enthusiast Topic Starter Posts: 795   +8

    Haven't done the uninstall yet.I'm somewhat of a procrastinator.Will try to get it done before this day is over. I've been to ubuntu a couple times. As far as I can tell everything is working fine.Everything that is except the things I need to be on line for..
    If I can get the wireless card working I should be doing pretty good.
    I'm guessing I'll be able to figure Linux and Ubuntu out by hands on experience
    The way I did with windows xp and 7.Hopefully anyway.
    I think most of my questions will be about partitioning Thanks for being patient
    CB

    Well Leeky; It didn't work. It was seated properly. But. I took it out and reinstalled it anyway. I thought for sure it was going to work,because I missed a step last time that I did this time. Last time I just put it in and ran the install CD. But. The instructions say to
    run the instruction CD first. To the point where it tell you to stop shut down your computer. Install the wireless card. Start your computer back up, and run the install CD again It's doing the same thing It did before... nothing .
    Would antenna placement have anything to do with it? I've got it setting on my computer desk. Should I try a few different spots on my desk? Maybe move it to someplace higher? Running the install CD after each move? A very despondent CB
  25. Leeky

    Leeky TechSpot Evangelist Posts: 4,378   +97

    OK, uninstall it again and then remove it. Reboot the computer, and then run the CD first, and then follow that to the letter. If you've already done this, let me know, as the above suggests you followed my previous advice and did it the other way around - normally it isn't a problem, but this time it might be.

    Back to Ubuntu Linux for a minute. With the card installed. Boot that, and can you open terminal (Applications > Accessories > terminal) and type the following into it:

    Code:
    lspci
    Can you paste everything it outputs into this thread for me to read please.

    Could you also provide me with a link to the exact item you purchased, so I can identify what it is, and its chipset exactly, as it was a while since I recommended the item.

    Linux takes a lot of patience as a new user, and you'll find sometimes it can be difficult to sort issues out, but as your understanding increases you will begin to find using it rewarding. There is absolutely no reason why anyone can't use Linux, its more a question of being prepared to learn to use it, through effort and overcoming problems that may arise.


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