Nvidia is asking graphics card retailers to prioritize gamers over miners

[texrat]

Communism is coming back! I grew up in one, I would know. Why don't they just ramp up the production at TSMC? Cryptocurrencies crash? No way! Cryptocurrencies will never die. After the fall of subprime mortgages, it's a perfect next best tool for speculation.

ASKING retailers to limit unit sales is nowhere near communism.

Also, reading is useful: "Nvidia and AMD don’t own the semiconductor manufacturing plants that produce their GPUs, which are running at near or total capacity as it is, and they can’t just ramp up production in the short term."

 

[Boilerhog146]

Why can't you guys read the rest of the thread, jeez you guys are annoying. You guys are so quick to argue you can't tell that you've all been trolled.

Going back to the topic, you'd think they would love mining, it means they make more money. Frankly, I don't care what they think of mining. I own it once I buy it and I can shove it unmentionable places or run it over with my car.

There is a massive market saying "we want more graphics cards, make them!" and the manufacturers "we don't want you using our product like that".

This mining thing has been an upcoming issue for almost 5 years now. They have had 5 years to figure out the logistics of increasing production. This is the manufacturers fault, not the miners.

Instead of embracing the new market they ignored it and now both gamers and miners are pissed. It's easy to push this off on the miners for PR purposes but this is mostly ignoring and not embracing their biggest market.

there is more to it than that,
Any idea just how many bogus rma have occurred because of mining,gamers with a legit RMA are now heavily scrutinized.miners don't give a **** about gamers.screw them./

Retailers should be stuck with the warranty service ,dealing with all those RMA and replacing burnt cards.then ,sure ,charge what you like ,but the manufactures ,AIB's ,Handle the RMA and retailers are off the hook.

 

[yRaz]

ASKING retailers to limit unit sales is nowhere near communism.

Also, reading is useful: "Nvidia and AMD don’t own the semiconductor manufacturing plants that produce their GPUs, which are running at near or total capacity as it is, and they can’t just ramp up production in the short term."

They've had 5 years to increase production. They won't ramp up production and their using existing contracts with semiconductor fabs as an excuse. They can contract with other fabs or the fabs can make their smaller contracts go to other contract fabs.

Now they are blaming miners for their oversight because they refused to see the potential of block chain tech.

 

[yRaz]

there is more to it than that,
Any idea just how many bogus rma have occurred because of mining,gamers with a legit RMA are now heavily scrutinized.miners don't give a **** about gamers.screw them./

My, What an educated opinion you have there! Mining is basically decentralized supercomputing and GPUs are great for that. Reinvest your mining profits back into mining over the course of the year and you can bring in an extra $3000 a month by the end. I have 3 1080tis and 6 1070tis and I can make that easily doing contract mining. Also other coins let you mine for cloud storage so I have several terabytes I have available for that. You can double mine on one rig, use the GPUs and hardrives for mining separate coins

 

[Boilerhog146]

They've had 5 years to increase production. They won't ramp up production and their using existing contracts with semiconductor fabs as an excuse. They can contract with other fabs or the fabs can make their smaller contracts go to other contract fabs.

Now they are blaming miners for their oversight because they refused to see the potential of block chain tech.

ASIC cards are available ,and now mining specific cards are being manufactured,so the manufactures are taking notice.
using smaller unknown fabs will expose the manufacture to unforeseen weekness, a batch from 1 fab ,could be of worse quality than another.

 

[Boilerhog146]

Not an educated response .just fact ,I have a friend mining and yeah killing cards regularly,,
you just proving it ,your RMA will be a bogus one just because you are using your cards for purpose for which they were not designed or intended.spin it any way you like .miners screw gamers.but who am I to argue with a Nigerian prince?

lol was that your ol'lady ,in bra and panties.,SKYPE me ,from Ghana in west Africa a few days ago, trying to get me to send money ..that was just so funny..

 

[yRaz]

ASIC cards are available ,and now mining specific cards are being manufactured,so the manufactures are taking notice.
using smaller unknown fabs will expose the manufacture to unforeseen weekness, a batch from 1 fab ,could be of worse quality than another.

GPU mining was created because ASIC miners were alloying cryptos to be manipuated by those with the most money. Coins are now designed to be ASIC resistant so people like you and me can mine with cards we already have. You can make $5 a day with a single 1060ti if you mine that coins. Crypto is being designed to make central banks irrelevant and return the power back to the people.

Who couldn't use an extra $150 a month? Someone with a 1080ti can make an $400 a month easy.

Before this shortage and the price increases I was prepared to by about 20 1080's. Now I'm just going to wait for Volta to build 4 more rigs.

And, hey, if this crypto thing crashes like the gamers hope than that's half priced graphics for all. Let the miners take the hit and pass the savings to gamers, manufacturers already make their money at that point.

And just think how cheap 1080s will be once the miners sell them off to buy Volta.

 

[yRaz]

Not an educated response .just fact ,and you just proving it ,your RMA will be a bogus one just because you are using your cards for purpose for which they were not designed or intended.spin it any way you like .miners screw gamers.

lol was that your ol'lady ,in bra and panties.,SKYPE me ,from Ghana in west Africa a few days ago, trying to get me to send money ..that was just so funny..

I don't overclocky cards or modify the bios so I keep the warranty. Nvidia drivers allow up to 8 cards to run together in one machine because people use them in applications where something similar to supercomputing is nessicary (look up all the uses for cuda cores). I'm not doing anything that voids may warranty and I also haven't had a single card fail yet.

So, please, show me the set of "alternative facts" your going on. American politics seem to argue over what facts are the factyist facts

 

[wiyosaya]

I can see the headlines tomorrow: Most Retailers to nVidia - Middle Finger Raised!

 

[Boilerhog146]

Most ,I've read had to mod bios for best hashrate or just burning to much power.
Great stuff. getting educated by the Prince.who pays your power bill?lol , here the power is just too expensive,
oh I don't have the factyist facts, just the basics,American politics makes my head hurt. a few ***** Senators can shut down a whole country like the u.s.

I've used some cuda programs ,video editing etc.

AGAIN! Nvidia would not be doing what they are doing if there wasn't a problem.

your bad for the environment, though I work in coalfired boilers .you are keeping the brotherhood employed thankyou.

 

[yRaz]

Most ,I've read had to mod bios for best hashrate or just burning to much power.
Great stuff. getting educated by the Prince.who pays your power bill?lol , here the power is just too expensive,
oh I don't have the factyist facts, just the basics,American politics makes my head hurt. a few ***** Senators can shut down a whole country like the u.s.

I've used some cuda programs ,video editing etc.

AGAIN! Nvidia would not be doing what they are doing if there wasn't a problem.

your bad for the environment, though I work in coalfired boilers .you are keeping the brotherhood employed thankyou.

As far is power is concerned I have the option to buy renewable energy threw my electric company and since I registered my mining as a corporation the difference is tax deductible. I can pay 11cents a kwh hour or 17cents a kwh for renewable energy. That 6cents difference is tax deductible so it's actually cheaper to use renewables than coal.

Now that the banks and major US tech companies are getting behind crypto it will be near impossible to stop. Corporations own American politics, what they say goes. China, South Korea and India all don't want crypto because it limits the control the have over their populations. Others like Japan and Australia have just come out and said " there is no way to regulate this so have at it.". The US realizes this too but they've chosen to embrace and tax it instead of banning it.

Like it or not, corporations owning US politics is good for crypto on the world market.

 

[wiyosaya]

They have explained that. There is this big fear that mining will collapse and they will be left with inventory that they cannot sell. That fear is being stoked by economists and everyone else spreading FUD about mining. Until forces other than those who actually mine embrace this as something here to stay and not the latest fad, mining will remain the latest fad that everyone must be crazy to embrace.

Something people don't see about crypto is that it's being used in developing nation's and economies, especially those with oppressive governments. It's really popular as a currency in Africa and south America with Venezuela topping the list of nation's adopting crypto(citizens, not governments).

Crypto is here to stay and the thing about GPU mining is that the further decentralizes crypto to take it out of the hands whales. These companies is are following the lead of their government. Nvidia, a South Korean company, is being pressured to drop this crypto thing. You don't hear about the other 80% of the world that is embracing crypto, just the negatives.

Prices started to increase slightly around 2012 with the 600 series but they were mostly stable and markup was only about 20-30 over MSRP. 900 series rolled around and the shortages started with about a $50-100 premium depending on the card, but still widely available. Now we are on Pascal and it's near impossible to get a card at any price.

They we're wrong and they continued be wrong year after year. Block chain technology is more than just a store of value. You can build an infinitly scale able cloud storage company at home using block chain tech. You can get paid to sell your computing power to researchers using block chain.

The block chain is more than a ledger used to store speculative value. It is a viable way for anyone to make money selling computing power. Would you rather a few hundred companies control cloud services or would you rather have it be that hundreds of millions of individuals around the world can have a piece of the pie?

Do you always poke through every single response in a long thread?

Yes, that way I avoid being one of several people arguing with someone when they already made a response to it a fee posts after their first comment.

And it's easier to find targets to troll if I read every post. Lot of potential gold in there!

If you want to call what I posted an argument, be my guest.

The downside of block chain is that it helps enable illegal activity which might entail any of the most heinous crimes.

I think it safe to say that it is a disruptive technology and the very fact that it is disruptive means that it is difficult for some to come to grips with it.

I get the possibilities of block-chain tech and distributed supercomputing. At this moment, I am almost in the top 3000 users in the world for BOINC averaging almost 1 M BOINC credits daily.

Until the rest of the world comes to grips with blockchain, it will remain speculative in the eyes of the rest of the world - at least as I see it. Every government has to have a piece of that PI whether we like it or not.

There really is not much that we can do to sway S. Korea in nVidia's favor whether we like it or not. We are in the US, what would we do - book plane tickets there and protest?

What we hear from nVidia may well be, as you suggest, PR to placate the S. Korean government. At some point, TPTB will get it all figured out, and then we might see nVidia invest in producing "mining" cards although, at least as I see it, their Tesla line could arguably already fall into that category - exclusive of the Tesla's DP compute capability - IMO.

 

[yRaz]

If you want to call what I posted an argument, be my guest.

The downside of block chain is that it helps enable illegal activity which might entail any of the most heinous crimes.

I think it safe to say that it is a disruptive technology and the very fact that it is disruptive means that it is difficult for some to come to grips with it.

I get the possibilities of block-chain tech and distributed supercomputing. At this moment, I am almost in the top 3000 users in the world for BOINC averaging almost 1 M BOINC credits daily.

Until the rest of the world comes to grips with blockchain, it will remain speculative in the eyes of the rest of the world - at least as I see it. Every government has to have a piece of that PI whether we like it or not.

There really is not much that we can do to sway S. Korea in nVidia's favor whether we like it or not. We are in the US, what would we do - book plane tickets there and protest?

What we hear from nVidia may well be, as you suggest, PR to placate the S. Korean government. At some point, TPTB will get it all figured out, and then we might see nVidia invest in producing "mining" cards although, at least as I see it, their Tesla line could arguably already fall into that category - exclusive of the Tesla's DP compute capability - IMO.

One thing I would like to point out about crypto being used for illegal activity is that, while true, the US dollar isn't he preferred method for money laundering.

Bitcoin and many crypto currency are Prue speculative, but the few that are being adopted in developing nation's because of security, privacy and, most importantly, quick transaction times are likely to come out on top.

Us in the first world don't see real world use of crypto because our fiat currencies are strong. However, Venezuela is a prime example of what crypto can do for a nation. It's allowing private trade between individuals. People can actually buy food now.

Bitcoin is dead, we are just prolonging it's life. There are better coins out there and we need Bitcoin to just die already. Bitcoin was a successful experiment but fails in practice. Etherium is interesting but also has limitations along with Litecoin. Stuff like Raiblocks(XRB) or IOTA are likely to be used as real crypto currencies I'm the next 5 years.

XMR is a nice coin but as one of the first privacy coins it has it's limitations. The first big ones will all likely fail, now we just need a free market to weed out all the bad ones so the real ones can shine. We need a digital cash.

I honestly feel crypto will have two more major bubbles and crashes before it stablizes into something usable. It's also going to be the third world that pioneers crypto, not the first world.

 

[wiyosaya]

One thing I would like to point out about crypto being used for illegal activity is that, while true, the US dollar isn't he preferred method for money laundering.

Bitcoin and many crypto currency are Prue speculative, but the few that are being adopted in developing nation's because of security, privacy and, most importantly, quick transaction times are likely to come out on top.

Us in the first world don't see real world use of crypto because our fiat currencies are strong. However, Venezuela is a prime example of what crypto can do for a nation. It's allowing private trade between individuals. People can actually buy food now.

Bitcoin is dead, we are just prolonging it's life. There are better coins out there and we need Bitcoin to just die already. Bitcoin was a successful experiment but fails in practice. Etherium is interesting but also has limitations along with Litecoin. Stuff like Raiblocks(XRB) or IOTA are likely to be used as real crypto currencies I'm the next 5 years.

XMR is a nice coin but as one of the first privacy coins it has it's limitations. The first big ones will all likely fail, now we just need a free market to weed out all the bad ones so the real ones can shine. We need a digital cash.

I honestly feel crypto will have two more major bubbles and crashes before it stablizes into something usable. It's also going to be the third world that pioneers crypto, not the first world.

As I see it, it is too hard to tell at this point what might shake out of the mix. Yes, bitcoin is dead from a computational standpoint, but the market still values it. Until it has no value in the market, it will still be traded.

In addition, there are literally hundreds of crypto currencies being introduced. I would not be surprised if a new one pops up every day.

That those in Venezuela can mine and buy food is certainly a good thing at least as I see it. Unfortunately, they live in yet another totalitarian state, so who knows where that will go.

I am not saying crypto currencies are bad - just that it is far too early to tell where they might go.

All I can say is mine your gold while you can - which I already know you are. The future, whatever it is, is yet to be born. The appreciation in value of my coin has paid for my relatively modest upgrades.

 

[yRaz]

As I see it, it is too hard to tell at this point what might shake out of the mix. Yes, bitcoin is dead from a computational standpoint, but the market still values it. Until it has no value in the market, it will still be traded.

In addition, there are literally hundreds of crypto currencies being introduced. I would not be surprised if a new one pops up every day.

That those in Venezuela can mine and buy food is certainly a good thing at least as I see it. Unfortunately, they live in yet another totalitarian state, so who knows where that will go.

I am not saying crypto currencies are bad - just that it is far too early to tell where they might go.

All I can say is mine your gold while you can - which I already know you are. The future, whatever it is, is yet to be born. The appreciation in value of my coin has paid for my relatively modest upgrades.

Speculators value Bitcoin and dumb investors who want to get rich quick. Anyone who knows crypto knows Bitcoin is dead.

It isn't just Venezuela, but that's at the top of the list. Countries with very week fiat currencies are exploding by using crypto. Crypto allows these poor nation's to be players on the world market. If you're interested I'll try to dig up a few articles about how crypto allows developing nation's to import goods on the world market. It was those articles that made me decide to mine in the first place. If your interested let me know and I'll dig them up for you. Even if you don't like cryto it's a very interesting read.

Still, it will be a number of years before crypto stablizes and becomes a real mean of exchange world wide.

Bitcoin does need to die, though. All the other altcoins are tied to Bitcoin in the form of "satoshis" and that's holding back the rest of the market from blooming. People have to trade altcoins then convert altcoins into Bitcoin or similar major coin just so they can trade or sell it on the world market.

I want Bitcoin to die and the ASIC miners to go away so that the market can finally stablize. That's still at least a year or more away.

 

[captaincranky]

I can see the headlines tomorrow: Most Retailers to nVidia - Middle Finger Raised!

Perhaps. But I can also see as many or more customers, giving retailers the finger, and buying direct.

Or, perhaps you might want to say, "screw Nvidia, they're over reaching", and decide to pick up a spare 1050 from "OutletPC:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA85V5MM7497

Here comes the punchline, "OutletPC is sold out of GTX-1050s at 400 bucks a pop. I should have done a screen cap to prove what I'm saying is true

 

[yRaz]

Perhaps. But I can also see customers giving retailers the finger, and buying direct.

I sometimes pay people to give me a finger

 

[captaincranky]

Don't believe me?

 

[wiyosaya]

People have to trade altcoins then convert altcoins into Bitcoin or similar major coin just so they can trade or sell it on the world market.

That depends on the exchange and how much you are willing to spend in fees - for instance, https://c-cex.com has US dollar markets for at least some alt-coins.

 

[yRaz]

That depends on the exchange and how much you are willing to spend in fees - for instance, https://c-cex.com has US dollar markets for at least some alt-coins.

Are you sure it isn't tether coin? Only one exchange I know of can do direct crypto to USD and that's coinbase. Everyone else uses tether. I use poloniex and cash out on coin base using Litecoin

 

[wiyosaya]

Perhaps. But I can also see as many or more customers, giving retailers the finger, and buying direct.

Or, perhaps you might want to say, "screw Nvidia, they're over reaching", and decide to pick up a spare 1050 from "OutletPC:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA85V5MM7497

Here comes the punchline, "OutletPC is sold out of GTX-1050s at 400 bucks a pop. I should have done a screen cap to prove what I'm saying is true

Cards are sold out even at nVidia's site - making it, IMO, not much better than the retailers like Newegg. With prices so high on Amazon, there is no way that I will consider them. I am personally not all that enamored with Amazon, so I am biased against them, and seeing the scalp prices there has only reinforced my decision to stay away from Amazon as much as humanly possible.

 

[wiyosaya]

Are you sure it isn't tether coin? Only one exchange I know of can do direct crypto to USD and that's coinbase. Everyone else uses tether. I use poloniex and cash out on coin base using Litecoin

I have not looked into it farther because the fees there are far too high, IMO. When I do decide to convert to cash, poloniex will be my choice since the fees are so low.

 

[yRaz]

I have not looked into it farther because the fees there are far too high, IMO. When I do decide to convert to cash, poloniex will be my choice since the fees are so low.

Poloniex is the most secure exchange in my opinion. It's US based and fully insured. They don't have the selection of coins that other exchanges have but I'll take security over profits. Coinbase cashing out fees are high because of the redtape a US based exchange has to go through if they want to use dollars.

Unless you ABSOLUTELY have to have a coin that isn't on poloniex don't move your money outside of it. These out of country uninsured exchanges will lead to another MT Grox situation. They lost two factor authentication as a selling point but if hackers get access to the source code they can disable 2FA and steal your money anyway.

2FA is no more than a feel good thing. Unless they're insured I don't trust them. I have less than 5% of my portfolio invested in coins outside of poloniex. You have to verify your identity if you really want to invest but I had to do that with E-trade anyway. I'm not trying to commit tax evasion so I don't care about verifying my identity on a full insured US exchange

 

[captaincranky]

Cards are sold out even at nVidia's site - making it, IMO, not much better than the retailers like Newegg. With prices so high on Amazon, there is no way that I will consider them. I am personally not all that enamored with Amazon, so I am biased against them, and seeing the scalp prices there has only reinforced my decision to stay away from Amazon as much as humanly possible.

OK I won't buy anything from Amazon,if can get it anywhere else.My online purcases are limited to my "activity", or if you prefer, "hobby purchases" So, cameras come from NYC "Adorama, or, "BHhotoVideo", musical instruments typically from "Musician's Friend, and of course, computer stuff from Newegg. Then, household items and such come from Walmart online, taking advantage of heir "free ship to store", option. And I'm, really not such a lazy a**hole or invalid, that I can't go to the supermarket for groceries.

Now, 95+% of my Amazon purchases are through, "Amazon Marketplace", and consist of CDs and TV series seasons sets.

Moving on, since I don't game or mine, all this VGA hysteria seems beyond absurd to me.

Those things said, I have to ask, "WTF did you think would happen"? We're at the end of the 1xxxx model year run. All of those cards were built and delivered months ago, and the new card aren't shipping yet.

As far as my take on "list price" goes, to me, the full retail price is normally set to establish the tentative value of a product, and it's supposed to be set high enough to allow retailers to discount from there.

As I said 'm not a gamer, so if any of y'all are suffering a HALO jones, all have to say is "SUFFAH"!

Epilogue: I bought a GTX-1050 ti a few months back. I didn't need it, it was simply installed as "side window bling", since the IGP in my i5-6600K would have been adequate for my intentions. (1440p single monitor). Said EVGA GTX-1050 ti 4GB "FTW" edition netted down to $140.00.

Maybe I'l make a separate post to explain how much I associate, "block chain technology", with, "chain letter technology".

 

[LinkedKube]

Yeah but, wouldn't you imagine that retailers are in their glory, charging as much as they can get for these products, without the typical price pressure brought on by competition? Do you think Newegg is going to turn down, "free money", because they've, suddenly grown a conscience. To be fair though, they still seem to be on point, by keeping their price gouging just a bit less than their competitors.

See, a lot of people have tried to explain to me how, "supply and demand economics", isn't the same as, "price gouging". I must really be dense, since I still can't tell the difference. After all, part of the DDR-4 price skyrocketing, was brought on by manufacturers intentionally ramping DOWN production of it. (Obviously IIRC).

Since DDR-5 is "in the wind", so to speak, the price of DDR-4 may never go down, it will simply become a, "replacement part", and the price could stay right where it is. After which, the market price pressure will shift to the new parts.

Without a doubt, there is such a thing as a "tech junkie", and once someone is hooked, be it gaming or heroine, they'll spend as much as they have to, in support of their habit.

Yeah but, wouldn't you imagine that retailers are in their glory, charging as much as they can get for these products, without the typical price pressure brought on by competition? Do you think Newegg is going to turn down, "free money", because they've, suddenly grown a conscience. To be fair though, they still seem to be on point, by keeping their price gouging just a bit less than their competitors.

See, a lot of people have tried to explain to me how, "supply and demand economics", isn't the same as, "price gouging". I must really be dense, since I still can't tell the difference. After all, part of the DDR-4 price skyrocketing, was brought on by manufacturers intentionally ramping DOWN production of it. (Obviously IIRC).

Since DDR-5 is "in the wind", so to speak, the price of DDR-4 may never go down, it will simply become a, "replacement part", and the price could stay right where it is. After which, the market price pressure will shift to the new parts.

Without a doubt, there is such a thing as a "tech junkie", and once someone is hooked, be it gaming or heroine, they'll spend as much as they have to, in support of their habit.

I was just looking to build a new desktop. Havn't put one together but my trust 980 6core is still ticking, water cooled. Was a bunch of work to clean it up after getting home from the Army for 4 years but I'm patiently waiting for this "tech junkie" thought to pass. I'm definately not a tech junky. I just want to build a new setup. I could also try drugs I guess. lol