PlayStation 4 is destroying the Xbox One in Amazon customer poll

[Darth Shiv]

They could enforce once-off online activation for discs. Have to deactivate to "move" the install.

 

[lawfer]

If you support Steam, yet say this, your argument is invalid because of hypocrisy and being shallow minded...

How so? Let's see how your argument is invalid:

1) Steam is not a console that you pay $500 for.

2) Steam doesn't require internet connection or periodic check-ins.

3) You can play offline.

4) Your files are still yours. You can see them; you can keep them; you can delete them.

5) They will never, ever, expire.

6) Comparing software vs hardware ownership is completely disingenuous.

A while back there was a story on this website about being able to copy games that were on a disc. I put a comment in about why we shouldn't be able to do it because people will be sharing them like music CDs get copied. Someone responded that they've had games get scratched up because heavy use by kids is hard on electronics.

If your new PS4 game gets scratched and wrecked, you're out another $60. If your games are free to download with your login at Microsoft you don't have to worry about it. That's going to be a big benefit to some customers. And don't say MS might turn off their activation server. By the time that happens we'll be using the PS7 (probably off the cloud) and Xbox One will be emulated on our phones.

Except you seem to forget you can also install your games on the PS4's removable HDD (I'm putting a 2TB on that bad boy; you can even install SSDs, or so I've heard).

The above sentence pretty much destroyed your entire argument. PS4 gives you CHOICE.

But I'll keep going:

The issue is not so much the intended paradigm. I get it. Xbox OS takes advantage of the cloud to help offload CPU/GPU tasks such as AI, lighting, matchmaking, etc. This paradigm is central in the always-online console, it only makes sense that they would make connectivity a requirement of once every 24 hours, as major games plan to use this system.

However, Microsoft decided to extend this requirement, which for platform and engineering reasons started as simply a better way to make more efficient games by offloading workload to the cloud, to a full-blown anti-consumer strategy for Microsoft's corporate, greedy executives to capitalize on second-hand market and curb "piracy" (which on the Xbox was literally non-existen as it required to solder the console).

You talk about the future, about innovation, etc. But what you don't realize is that rules like not being able to sell YOUR games privately, requiring online checking every 24 hours or every hour if playing on a different console, are restrictions put in place NOT for YOUR benefit. Don't you see? Microsoft's E3 conference was full of games, yes, but that's precisely what they want you to focus on while they **** you in the *** and not even have the decency to put lube on. The message here is that YOU were NOT in mind when the Xbox was designed. YOU do NOT OWN the PHYSICAL games you bought after spending whatever amount of gas driving to the store. You are "ALLOWED" to give your game to only 1 person on your friends' list as long as they've been there for at least 30 days. YOUR games have an EXPIRATION DATE; will it be 5 years? A decade? It doesn't matter. My Steam copy of Deus Ex: Human Revolution will ALWAYS be playable on my PC even Valve goes bankrupt, and that's not even a disc.

I mean, I can already imagine, not being able to sell your own games through a garage sale without putting a sticker on the box that reads: "Here's my Live ID. This game is yours for only 2000 MS points!"

Oh, and to those men and women who protect our country in some of the shittiest places on earth, after a hard, long day sacrificing their lives for you and me, Microsoft simply tells them that if they don't have a stable (or any) Internet connection, the can always get an Xbox 360. Because, **** those guys! AM I RIGHT?!

 

[MilwaukeeMike]

With the educated, intelligent, and free-willed—"nerds" as you have called us—a group of people I proudly support. You support your majority with your dollar, I'm happy putting mine with the imaginative, the creative, and the nerds. Because when it comes down to it: we will always own people like you.

Man, feels like I'm reading an Apple fan bash an Android supporter.

Mrcobbynot - Welcome to Techspot, where your harsh opinion will be ridiculed for being harsh by someone on a Guest account whos... you guessed it, being harsh.

How so? Let's see how your argument is invalid:

You seem to forget you can also install your games on the PS4's removable HDD (I'm putting a 2TB on that bad boy; you can even install SSDs, or so I've heard).

The above sentence pretty much destroyed your entire argument. But I'll keep going:

I didn't forget anything, my knowledge of the PS4 is about as extensive as your tolerance for someone being wrong. Consider by argument 'destroyed'
Does that mean the PS4 will have serial numbers on games so you can't install them on more than one console, or how will that work?

 

[lawfer]

Man, feels like I'm reading an Apple fan bash an Android supporter.

Mrcobbynot - Welcome to Techspot, where your harsh opinion will be ridiculed for being harsh by someone on a Guest account whos... you guessed it, being harsh.




I didn't forget anything, my knowledge of the PS4 is about as extensive as your tolerance for someone being wrong. Consider by argument 'destroyed'
Does that mean the PS4 will have serial numbers on games so you can't install them on more than one console, or how will that work?

That's it? I was expecting more....

Your argument was that there is benefit in being able to not have a physical disc. I mentioned the PS4 allows you to install the game on the HDD. Which essentially makes the convenience factor you try to portray on the Xbox One rather weak, as discs will never be scratched if you follow this route.

And I find it hilarious that you ask me if there are serial numbers. Buying a console is not a service. The console assumes you bought the game, there's no intervention by the system to check with cloud and make sure no one else has installed it. Just like the model now, you obviously need the disc for the initial spin, but the data is read from the HDD.

However, that is for disc-based games.

You also have the option to buy, download an install games directly from PSN. On PS4 it will act similar to how digital games do on the Xbox One, where games are tied to your account. Are you now starting to see why disc-based limitations on the Xbox One don't make sense? Or am I just wasting my time?

 

[Guest]

The only poll I'm interested in is the one on election day

- Juliar Gizzard

 

[MilwaukeeMike]

Just like the model now, you obviously need the disc for the initial spin, but the data is read from the HDD.

However, that is for disc-based games.

You also have the option to buy, download an install games directly from PSN. On PS4 it will act similar to how digital games do on the Xbox One, where games are tied to your account. Are you now starting to see why disc-based limitations on the Xbox One don't make sense? Or am I just wasting my time?

Perhaps it's obvious by now, but I don't own a Playstation. My understanding of the XB1 was that once you bought a game you could re-download it in the future and wouldn't need the disc, so long as you had an internet connection to prove you owned the game. It sounds like you need the disc in as well, whereas with the PS4 you also need the disc in the machine, but don't need an internet connection to prove you bought it. If that's true, then I can't think of a single advantage to the way MS is doing it.... at least not for the users.

So neither of these systems protects against the dog cracking a disk that was carelessly left on the floor. Is that correct?

 

[Passnot]

Gaming pc for $500? uhhh that may be a bit far fetched...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229435

Not really. I wouldn't put this at the top of the heap by any stretch, but the specs certainly blow away what the PS4 or XBox One will have.

That thing you linked to cannot possibly hope to run Battlefield 4 in 1080p at 60fps, and yet the PS4 can.

It's not about raw power, but optimization.

Actually console versions of Battlefield 4 can only do 720p@60fps. Dice said so themselves. Demo at E3 was actually ran on PC. To get 1080p@60fps with a game like Battlefield 4, you need a PC powerful enough to handle it.

Next Gen consoles do help PC gamers in which they will let developers design the game with the lead design being the PC. Easier to downscale than it is to upscale. PC get better graphics and better support this generation of games.

Consoles are good for exclusives that don't port to PC, but seems like a lot of M$'s exclusives(titanfall, dead rising 3...etc) are actually going to PC as well. So until a Halo or Gears comes out, there's no reason to buy a Xbone. Same goes for PS4...not real cool exclusives on launch. Killzone might be exception if you're into generic shooters still.

 

[Passnot]

If you support Steam, yet say this, your argument is invalid because of hypocrisy and being shallow minded...

How so? Let's see how your argument is invalid:

1) Steam is not a console that you pay $500 for.

2) Steam doesn't require internet connection or periodic check-ins.

3) You can play offline.

4) Your files are still yours. You can see them; you can keep them; you can delete them.

5) They will never, ever, expire.

6) Comparing software vs hardware ownership is completely disingenuous.

A while back there was a story on this website about being able to copy games that were on a disc. I put a comment in about why we shouldn't be able to do it because people will be sharing them like music CDs get copied. Someone responded that they've had games get scratched up because heavy use by kids is hard on electronics.

If your new PS4 game gets scratched and wrecked, you're out another $60. If your games are free to download with your login at Microsoft you don't have to worry about it. That's going to be a big benefit to some customers. And don't say MS might turn off their activation server. By the time that happens we'll be using the PS7 (probably off the cloud) and Xbox One will be emulated on our phones.

Except you seem to forget you can also install your games on the PS4's removable HDD (I'm putting a 2TB on that bad boy; you can even install SSDs, or so I've heard).

The above sentence pretty much destroyed your entire argument. PS4 gives you CHOICE.

But I'll keep going:

The issue is not so much the intended paradigm. I get it. Xbox OS takes advantage of the cloud to help offload CPU/GPU tasks such as AI, lighting, matchmaking, etc. This paradigm is central in the always-online console, it only makes sense that they would make connectivity a requirement of once every 24 hours, as major games plan to use this system.

However, Microsoft decided to extend this requirement, which for platform and engineering reasons started as simply a better way to make more efficient games by offloading workload to the cloud, to a full-blown anti-consumer strategy for Microsoft's corporate, greedy executives to capitalize on second-hand market and curb "piracy" (which on the Xbox was literally non-existen as it required to solder the console).

You talk about the future, about innovation, etc. But what you don't realize is that rules like not being able to sell YOUR games privately, requiring online checking every 24 hours or every hour if playing on a different console, are restrictions put in place NOT for YOUR benefit. Don't you see? Microsoft's E3 conference was full of games, yes, but that's precisely what they want you to focus on while they **** you in the *** and not even have the decency to put lube on. The message here is that YOU were NOT in mind when the Xbox was designed. YOU do NOT OWN the PHYSICAL games you bought after spending whatever amount of gas driving to the store. You are "ALLOWED" to give your game to only 1 person on your friends' list as long as they've been there for at least 30 days. YOUR games have an EXPIRATION DATE; will it be 5 years? A decade? It doesn't matter. My Steam copy of Deus Ex: Human Revolution will ALWAYS be playable on my PC even Valve goes bankrupt, and that's not even a disc.

I mean, I can already imagine, not being able to sell your own games through a garage sale without putting a sticker on the box that reads: "Here's my Live ID. This game is yours for only 2000 MS points!"

Oh, and to those men and women who protect our country in some of the shittiest places on earth, after a hard, long day sacrificing their lives for you and me, Microsoft simply tells them that if they don't have a stable (or any) Internet connection, the can always get an Xbox 360. Because, **** those guys! AM I RIGHT?!

Sometimes a "corporation" needs to listen to consumers because they are hemorrhaging money(SONY) and sometimes a "corporation" doesn't listen because they were #1 last gen(M$).

I'm of the opinion that corporations need to listen at all times to stay ahead of the game. Sony has made the same mistakes as M$ with the PS3 as far as pricing and not listening to the consumers that wanted more online features.

It totally sucks that M$ has made a choice to only include people with stable internet connections to play it's system. And indirectly excluding people in the other spectrum of connectivity. But honestly, the fact that there are two systems to choose from that have different and opposite attributes/features, proves that we do live in a free world that those soldiers are fighting for. Why do overseas armed forces need a xbone anyways? Can't they make up their own minds to choose what's right for them? PS4 being that choice since it's an offline console?

It sounds like people that are complaining about xbone, actually want one deep down and are angry cause M$ is cockblocking that with DRM. But for me, I don't complain **** about Nintendo cause I could care less. Sony's strategy is sound because it plays on people's fears of apocalyptic internet connectivity and the old ways of hard copy. But to people like me who know their internet is sound most of the time and don't go on VACATIONS that "need" a console to enjoy, I could care less about 24hr check in. Majority always rules. But that is also why the PS4 exists...to accommodate the minority.

It's cool now to like PS4...but how cool will it be 5-12 months down the road when xbone is deemed cool because it costs more and is more user friendly(APPLE PHENOMENON).

 

[ET3D]

I'm not going to buy either. If I had to make a choice I, well, I have no idea. Really. Sony has a lot going for it, technically, but as a consumer, Microsoft's moves don't affect me greatly. I never sell my games (and in fact the PC made me used to not being able to do that) and my consoles are connected to the internet. I like Kinect, I think it's the best technology for non-controller interaction, and I'd love to see its next gen, because the current gen does suffer from lack of accuracy. I'm not a great console fan, I have a Wii and 360 mainly because they provide alternate means of control (Wiimote, Kinect), and I think that the Xbox One goes more in that direction.

Regarding the poll, I think that the opinions of the online community don't matter too much. I mean, I don't trust them as an indicator of success. If they did, Apple wouldn't be the success that it is, and Linux might be the leading desktop environment.

I do hope that Microsoft's moves go back to bite them, but I don't intend to predict that up front.

 

[Acespaces]

I am personally a xbox fan because Sony had some security issues. BUT since xbox has to be a wiener and make the console stay online along with the used games extra costs. I am transferring to sony.

*Don't tell anyone but im a PC gamer*

 

[TVPMike]

Mrcobbynot:

I don't know. I guess I can see your point, but I honestly think your opinion is based off of bad self-experiences. The thing is, with a PC, you have full control. Now, if you do not know what your doing, your games will crash. Your graphics and sound will suck. You will have a crappy experience. However, if you know what your doing and what parts of your system do what, you rarely have any problems. For example, I've had games not work because I am missing DLL files. To someone who is not tech savvy, the world might as well be ending. But to me its the easiest fix in the world, and the reason it happened was because I wasn't prepared. The point I'm trying to make is that with a computer, it is my fault because of the control. With an entertainment center? Yeah, you get better sound and higher definition (the setup is amazing, although I personally do not like plasma screens) but a disc gets scratched and you just lost $50 (or whatever games cost nowadays when they come out). As another point, you not only have to replace games when they get scratched (the only thing that kills a game on a computer is probably gonna be a virus from all the Porn you say we watch - and in that case its the entire computer failing, not just the game's files) but you also have to buy new consoles every time they come out to play the new games. If you know what your doing, you can run the same computer for years and years and you only pay the occasional addition. Even then, you know exactly what your buying and you pay directly for that, unlike the Xbox One or the Playstation 4 that will both undoubtedly have a cost in things we couldn't give less of a rat's *** about. So I see your point, but I also sorta disagree. By the way, I completely love what you said about kids putting in a new graphics card and thinking they built their computer. So goddamned true!

 

[Guest]

So, Microsoft think they can blind us to their complicity with PRISM et al?

They are going down, their console is going down. A spy device in your living room, are you lot stupid? A Microsoft sanctioned backdoor into all your systems ( desktop etc). In fact all the patents and technology were probably stolen using Prism and its predecessor.

All the other companies in the world should sue the Prism 9 for stealing copyright and ip and corporate secrets.

You are now worthless Microsoft and Apple, Google et al, your are all going to fail, Spying *****.

 

[misor]

The consumer's vote: money! to the most desired console.

 

[m4a4]

How so? Let's see how your argument is invalid:

1) Steam is not a console that you pay $500 for.

2) Steam doesn't require internet connection or periodic check-ins.

3) You can play offline.

4) Your files are still yours. You can see them; you can keep them; you can delete them.

5) They will never, ever, expire.

6) Comparing software vs hardware ownership is completely disingenuous.

My argument invalid? You didn't even acknowledge my argument. Here, I'll sum it up (just so that you have no excuse for ignoring it again):
You said "Don't let THEM tell you when, where, how, and who to share/trade/sell YOUR games with.", so basically hating on MS because of that. Yet you use Steam (I will assume so because of your response) which has absolutely NONE OF THAT. Hypocrisy!

As for your 5 irrelevant (and shallow) points though:
1) You need to spend around $500 (at the least!) to have a system that runs as smoothly and looks as good as on a console where the game has been optimized for it.
2) Steam requires internet for the first part and does sometimes need check ins. Everyday? No. But look at Steam in it's infancy and you will see similar things...
3) Yes it has offline mode now, but again, look at it's beginnings...
4) The files might be yours, but you cannot use them without Steam. I don't know what you're getting at.
5) Again, I don't know what you're getting at. You are assuming something will happen in the future.
6) I am comparing the software on the XB1 and the software of Steam. Good going on messing that up.

 

[Puiu]

The region locking that the XBOX has is incredible. Besides not launching in Asia, half of the EU (European Union, in the continent it's even worse) will not have it. Also you can't import it from one country from the EU and play the games you buy in another country from the EU. What the hell MS? Are you really going this far to alienate us?

From the looks of it the XBONE was made only for the US market and we are lucky if MS will even launch it in other places. I just learned from TotalBiscuit's youtube channel (TotalHalibut) that the xbox is not even coming to my country Romania (one of the largest gamer country in the EU and even Poland is excluded) ... WTF

 

[Puiu]

As for your 5 irrelevant (and shallow) points though:
1) You need to spend around $500 (at the least!) to have a system that runs as smoothly and looks as good as on a console where the game has been optimized for it.
2) Steam requires internet for the first part and does sometimes need check ins. Everyday? No. But look at Steam in it's infancy and you will see similar things...
3) Yes it has offline mode now, but again, look at it's beginnings...
4) The files might be yours, but you cannot use them without Steam. I don't know what you're getting at.
5) Again, I don't know what you're getting at. You are assuming something will happen in the future.
6) I am comparing the software on the XB1 and the software of Steam. Good going on messing that up.

You can't compare steam with a console. with steam you can get games with 80% price deals and the DRM is non-intrusive. (I don't even remember when I bought a game that was more expensive than 7-8euro) Also the internet connection doesn't matter with steam since it's the only way to get the game on your PC if you want to use steam.
BUT unlike consoles you can get the games on a PC and NOT use steam. Plain and simple. You also don't pay for multiplayer, unlike both new gen consoles.

And the simple fact that Valve listened to it's user base to change Steam into something better is why Steam is now one of the most popular platforms used by gamers. The beginnings don't matter, you have to remember that Valve also had to deal with a lot a negative PR because of no OFFLINE. What did they do? They said that they will bring OFFLINE to everyone and they did just that.
What did microsoft say? You want offline? Go play on the 360 you peasant. This is type of attitude that needs to change and should not be tolerated.

I wasn't going to buy the xbox one and after I learned that it's not even launching in half of Europe including my country and the fact that it's so region locked that even neighbor EU countries can't import it, I just can't defend some of the few good points that xbox one has anymore.

 

[Guest]

Puiu - "......it's some of the ****** that roam the internet........."

Agreed, but they are only stooges for the Government et al. The whole system is rotten, can't sit back and not say.

Was really looking forward to this console fight, and then......., it all lost appeal. Still gonna get PS4 though, M$ have crashed and burned in my opinion.

 

[psycros]

First Off I was generalizing when I said Walmart aka brick and mortar. Does FRYs make more since. Now a days I would check new egg or Amazon. I have no need to build a computer and hunt down the latest drivers to config the system. I have built 2 386 machines in my early days before plug and play was ever heard of. When people actually built the computer from the ground up. Today kids plug in a new Video card or plug in some memory dimm and tell people they built a computer. Lmao Anybody can build a computer this day an age but why would I want to when I could have some slave laborer from China to do it. The last computer I bought was from tiger direct configured online and shipped to my door. Microsoft wont waste its time in Asia because the Asian people prefer buying machines built by Asians. The Xbox is built in China but I guess its still to American for there tastes. PC gaming is for lonely nerds who live with there parents because their to big of losers to find a life and a job. I could run my computer threw HDMI from my Vid card to my home theater but why deal with the headache of wondering if the game is going to crash. Then spend more time trying to tweak the game settings so it will run consistently. Whatever..Nerds go play WOWC and pull your puds or diddle your muffins to online porn because you cant get a life or a woman or man which ever you prefer.

Pathetic troll is pathetic.

 

[andrewyoung]

Haha! Your funny if what you say is true, why aren't you using a ps2? Or N64? If you put games in them they work every time too!

Either way, your setup is more expensive than 99% of all gaming rigs on the globe, I can also bet a lot of those gamers would prefer their setup over yours purely because they still get a better experience with decent headphones, sound card and higher Res screen plus almost all games on PC run at a higher framerate and better graphic settings. True computers are prone to crashing, but since windows 7, I'm yet to have a blue screen, my Xbox has crashed more often. Any "dad" who buys this are seriously not thinking about what they have really purchased, they are essentially proving to Microsoft they don't mind their rights being taken away from them, they don't mind paying over the odds for a less powerful machine and actually want to use more power to watch TV. Also if your ps3 is dusty, why not give it a clean and pickup a copy of "the last of us" you might just be surprised how good the ps3 still is

ha ha ha so true.

 

[m4a4]

You can't compare steam with a console. with steam you can get games with 80% price deals and the DRM is non-intrusive. (I don't even remember when I bought a game that was more expensive than 7-8euro) Also the internet connection doesn't matter with steam since it's the only way to get the game on your PC if you want to use steam.
BUT unlike consoles you can get the games on a PC and NOT use steam. Plain and simple. You also don't pay for multiplayer, unlike both new gen consoles.

And the simple fact that Valve listened to it's user base to change Steam into something better is why Steam is now one of the most popular platforms used by gamers. The beginnings don't matter, you have to remember that Valve also had to deal with a lot a negative PR because of no OFFLINE. What did they do? They said that they will bring OFFLINE to everyone and they did just that.
What did microsoft say? You want offline? Go play on the 360 you peasant. This is type of attitude that needs to change and should not be tolerated.

I wasn't going to buy the xbox one and after I learned that it's not even launching in half of Europe including my country and the fact that it's so region locked that even neighbor EU countries can't import it, I just can't defend some of the few good points that xbox one has anymore.

The console is just the hardware that comes with the package. I am comparing it to the software implementation.

You cannot compare the infant XB1 (it's not even out yet!) with a mature Steam and expect a fair argument. That is why the beginnings DO matter.

As you said, Steam didn't have offline play for a while (wasn't it absolutely no offline? Because that would be worse than the 24hr check in, last I checked) until they could implement offline.

You pay for a service that is bundled with multiplayer (on their servers). You can't expect the servers to be free to host. And then MP is arguably better on the paid XBL than on PC...

But I will agree that their answer to offline was BS. They need to fire their PR guys and get new ones. I'm still not buying the XB1 (however, I will not stand by and let the misconceptions run rampant), but I like the idea of a Steam-like console. And if I see it turn into that, maybe I will eventually buy it...

 

[Guest]

Microsoft has a recent record of release products that flop better than NBA players:

Windows 8
Surface tablet
Xbox One?

 

[Adhmuz]

The problem with PC gaming is You Will Spend Allot Of Time Driving Circles To The Walmart to upgrade your PC for the latest game. This game for that new card and more memory , and another new card and then crash , crash , because a driver failed to work with some such monitor and motherboard configuration. People that think their special because their a PC gamer spend more time telling people their a PC gamer than actually playing games. My PC is awesome , My PC is better than your PC. Blah.blah. blah. Guess what nerd my 10k in home theaters 2 of them blows away your PC in gaming. 2Panasonic 65" plasma , 2Yamaha 7.2 140watts per channel ,14 M&K speakers and 2 sub woofers ,dusty PS3 and over used xbox360. I dont have to wonder if my gaming system is configured correctly to play the game, It plays the game no problems EVERY TIME. Boom! Get a real job then step up to the plate and buy both systems

Congratulations, you know so little about PC gaming you made yourself look like a fool. And your home theater doesn't impress me. First off why would I need to upgrade my GPU every time I buy a new game, the idea is you build it right the first time and thats it, besides I can order things online with next day shipping for less than going out and buying in a brick and mortar store. Games? Who buys physical games on PC anymore, it's easier again to just download them with steam and they work first time, at least in my experience, guess your just doing something wrong if your dealing with non stop crashes. And oh no if it does, I can fix it, bonus about building your own PC and understanding it, and not just being another consumer to underpowered consoles. Also find it funny how you complain that "People that think their special because their a PC gamer spend more time telling people their a PC gamer than actually playing games." And then you proceed by telling people about your home theater setup in the exact same manner??? Your credibility just took another shot. Lastly, what do you mean by "real job" and why is it significant to have both console when one is clearly the better buy, do you just like to piss away money foolishly? Because thats all you "real job" seems to have gotten you. Now for the reply along the line of "Oh I bet your a PC gamer blah blah blah", I don't care if I am, I just use the better platform. I'd like to see your console run the latest Metro even on medium settings let alone very high.

 

[Puiu]

The console is just the hardware that comes with the package. I am comparing it to the software implementation.

You cannot compare the infant XB1 (it's not even out yet!) with a mature Steam and expect a fair argument. That is why the beginnings DO matter.

As you said, Steam didn't have offline play for a while (wasn't it absolutely no offline? Because that would be worse than the 24hr check in, last I checked) until they could implement offline.

You pay for a service that is bundled with multiplayer (on their servers). You can't expect the servers to be free to host. And then MP is arguably better on the paid XBL than on PC...

But I will agree that their answer to offline was BS. They need to fire their PR guys and get new ones. I'm still not buying the XB1 (however, I will not stand by and let the misconceptions run rampant), but I like the idea of a Steam-like console. And if I see it turn into that, maybe I will eventually buy it...

But you can also argue that Steam didn't have anyone else to look at and get inspiration. Nowadays we have so many other services similar to steam that you can't say that microsoft it treading on new ground and innovating. This is how the market is right now and this is what people expect out of them. Anything else is just PR mambo jumbo that hides their hidden agenda.

As for the online services that MS has, don't forget that steam also offers free services too, with the exception of the actual servers for games that aren't made by them. (cross-game chat, cloud saves, cloud-printscreens , social network, free automatic game updates that use their servers and many others)
I don't expect MS to offer free multiplayer and I'm actually really fine with it as long as it's worth the price they're asking. But I want people to stop saying: "oh but look at how steam started", it's not how things work. It's like saying that making a car with a 20HP engine at 50k$ is fine because that how they made them back in the day. Things have progressed a lot since then.
The only thing you should say is: "oh look at how MS is ignoring everyone: from their most devoted fans to IT and PR pros and non-pros that are telling them that they ****ed up this generation."

This poll is exactly what people think of the new xbox. Most of the ones who voted for xbox will most likely buy both consoles. (though the same can be said of small part of the ones who voted for ps4)

 

[m4a4]

But you can also argue that Steam didn't have anyone else to look at and get inspiration. Nowadays we have so many other services similar to steam that you can't say that microsoft it treading on new ground and innovating. This is how the market is right now and this is what people expect out of them. Anything else is just PR mambo jumbo that hides their hidden agenda.

As for the online services that MS has, don't forget that steam also offers free services too, with the exception of the actual servers for games that aren't made by them. (cross-game chat, cloud saves, cloud-printscreens , social network, free automatic game updates that use their servers and many others)
I don't expect MS to offer free multiplayer and I'm actually really fine with it as long as it's worth the price they're asking. But I want people to stop saying: "oh but look at how steam started", it's not how things work. It's like saying that making a car with a 20HP engine at 50k$ is fine because that how they made them back in the day. Things have progressed a lot since then.
The only thing you should say is: "oh look at how MS is ignoring everyone: from their most devoted fans to IT and PR pros and non-pros that are telling them that they ****ed up this generation."

This poll is exactly what people think of the new xbox. Most of the ones who voted for xbox will most likely buy both consoles. (though the same can be said of small part of the ones who voted for ps4)

They technically are treading new ground (stupid ground to tread, but they are). They are catering to discs and are trying to make it seem like they aren't biased towards digital downloads, all while trying for a Steam-like console. If they didn't support the discs in a way that allowed reselling/trading/loaning, then they wouldn't have the strict DRM that everyone loves to hate.
But if they got rid of discs, there would be hate. If they kept discs as consoles traditionally have, then they would be held back because of it (and maybe even be seen as favoring DD and people will hate).

Basically, they are going to be receiving a lot of hate no matter what. But I would rather they start towards the Steam console route than keep safe on the traditional console route...

 

[Puiu]

They technically are treading new ground (stupid ground to tread, but they are). They are catering to discs and are trying to make it seem like they aren't biased towards digital downloads, all while trying for a Steam-like console. If they didn't support the discs in a way that allowed reselling/trading/loaning, then they wouldn't have the strict DRM that everyone loves to hate.
But if they got rid of discs, there would be hate. If they kept discs as consoles traditionally have, then they would be held back because of it (and maybe even be seen as favoring DD and people will hate).

Basically, they are going to be receiving a lot of hate no matter what. But I would rather they start towards the Steam console route than keep safe on the traditional console route...

we'll just have to see how things will turn out in a year or two. (most likely 2 since half of europe and asia won't get it at launch and it's region locked)