Ryzen 9 3950X on Good and Bad B450 Motherboards

[Steve]

Steve,
I respect your work alot. But I must say, you bring up the used Intel market quite a bit. Intel stuff just holds better value.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Does it not seem worth mentioning that those who invest in the LGA1151 with a Core i3 or i5 processor for example face getting bent over years later with overpriced Core i7/i9 processors?

Meanwhile 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen owners will almost certainly have access to cheap 12 and 16-core parts down the track? Seems like a big plus for investing in AM4 to me...

I'm not hating the player, nor the game, I'm simply stating facts and providing evidence to support those facts.

The assertion that "within a year almost all new games and applications will benefit from 8 cores" got my attention too. If that's true, 1) that is huge, seismic, industry changing news; and 2) then many of those games and applications must be in the active development pipeline now, and perhaps even available to discuss under the right terms.

I think this assertion merits an article of it's own.

As much as I'd like it to be true, I'm highly skeptical. Outside of the usual multi-threaded suspects, which have been the same categories of specialized use cases for years now, most applications for most users do very little with more than one core. That's because the fundamental issues - either that the tasks are just not suited for parallel computation, or that the programmer cost to achieve it exceeds the value of the solution, or that there is years of legacy code / plugins / compatibility issues that can not be solved by a single developer - have not changed in years either.

To be clear my comment has nothing to do with any specific chip or whose team I'm on. The issues are more fundamental than that and if there's reason to believe something has truly shifted, I'd like to know the evidence and what was behind it.

This might be of interest: https://www.techspot.com/review/1859-two-years-later-ryzen-1600-vs-core-i5-7600k/

You forget the mention Ryzens weakness, and Intels strength. The 7700k can be easily overclocked to 5GHz. Easily surpassing a 3600, even with PBO enabled.

You guys keep crying about used parts pricing. The issue is supply and demand. The 7700k is still a great chip. Many many where sold, but not many are getting upgraded/resold.
Ao there's a ton of people on Intel's z170/z270 platform looking to upgrade.
Yes AMD chip is cheaper but there's also a mobo cost involved. Thus eliminating any savings.
What's sad is how many used 1st gen Ryzen chips are out there, being sold for dirt cheap.
Supply and demand.

The 7700K is far from a great chip, it's merely a factory overclocked 6700K. Moreover there are boat loads of them for sale on eBay at this very moment. As I explained in the article, they hold their value because people who invested in that platform have no other option, their wallets are being held at gun point. They can either spend $220~ on a second hand 7700K or $200 on an R5 3600 + $100 on a B450 motherboard. While the later would be a much smarter choice, many opt to save the $100 and go the quick CPU upgrade route.

 

[Irata]

Speaking of

Because software that people use daily

this and Intel's push to use "more relevant" tools / software for benchmarks:

HTTPStwitter.com/LegitReviews/status/1196517513909227522

"Last week @intel suggested that we take a look at MATLAB workloads for CPU testing. A recent post on Reddit shows that @AMDRyzen CPUs do poorly with Intel MKL. A proposed 'fix' runs AMD CPUs in AVX2 mode. Perf gains on 2600x are between 20% and 300%. "

The fix is to bypass the VendorID string search and enable AVX on AMD CPU....

 

[HofyPC]

Really doesnt matter as the Tomahawk and Pro Carbon do not exist in M-ITX format.

 

[Ravalo]

You forget the mention Ryzens weakness, and Intels strength. The 7700k can be easily overclocked to 5GHz. Easily surpassing a 3600, even with PBO enabled.

You guys keep crying about used parts pricing. The issue is supply and demand. The 7700k is still a great chip. Many many where sold, but not many are getting upgraded/resold.
Ao there's a ton of people on Intel's z170/z270 platform looking to upgrade.
Yes AMD chip is cheaper but there's also a mobo cost involved. Thus eliminating any savings.
What's sad is how many used 1st gen Ryzen chips are out there, being sold for dirt cheap.
Supply and demand.

You can grab a B450 motherboard for like 90-110$ soooooo...

When talking about overclocking, you can overclock the ryzen 5 too, you could even “moderately” overclock the ryzen 5 with the stock cooler without killing the cpu
The 7700k is not a bad cpu, but I prefer ryzen because I can record with OBS and game at the same time on the same pc (My pc has an amd athlon x4 845 and I can record with the x264 ultrafast/h264 quality codec at 1080p 30fps 10,000 kb/s without the video looking like a stuttery mess)

 

[Stark]

I remember I brought a brand name full desktop with CRT and P4, man was I blown away by the amount of tasks I could do on that Win 95 box and I liked Win Millennium 2000 for the short time it was there so sue me for that, (dial up sucked... remember those 3 months subscription CD for internet). Anyways for almost a decade I was loyal Intel user, but with my core E8500 I was left wanting more CPU power, and then I made the switch to Phenom and never looked back. My FX 8350 is still going strong with 1060 6GB for 1080p 60FPS gaming in hands of my brother(he is not a big PC enthusiast ?). My self am on 2700x 144Hz goodness on 2060 super.
The reason for that is price to performance, Intel prices may see a reduction and good deals in US but in rest of the world they certainly cost way more than the selling price in US of A. Also with Ryzen for the first time in decades AMD leads with efficiency, I remember the bashing FX got for its power consumption but these 5 GHz on Intel crossing 200+watt is easily ignored also the added cost of a 360 radiator which is absolutely needed to keep it cool at those loads is not mentioned (Tom's used a industrial chiller for their reviews and easily forgot to mention such in conclusions but one can see the mention on top of graphs), all for that 4% gain in 1080p gaming. not to mention that you need to pair it with 2070 and above to actually see that 4% difference. with all this you are way above 2000 USD$ now only on the CPU tower.
for 1440p and above there is virtually no difference in these CPUs and AMD wins on productivity side while being a lot cheaper than Intel to set up and get to working.
While I might need a new MB for Intel upgrades I can easily pop in a new AM4 CPU in 2021 in my rig which almost costed me 1700 USD w/o the cost of monitor. that may not seem much but I earn about 1000 USD per month. So yeah from which ever angle one may decide to look, efficiency, longevity,productivity, gaming etc. AMD offers a better option, and the kicker is if these Ryzen CPU were not there to kick Intel in nuts, we may still be debating about the new quad core i5's and how good they are.

 

[Stark]

PS I am really happy I brought B450 carbon pro on TS recommendation.

 

[jpuroila]

Because software that people use daily get no benefit from high core counts and slower clocks. For even a chip like the 3600, you have to be using it for something MT'd to justify it's slow performance performing day to day tasks like email, Facebook, browsing and uploading photos.

AMD's marketing does cater to the 80% that will see the high core count and low price and think it's better for day to day when it's far from it.

Wake me when AMD takes the day to day crown from Intel. I've been around too long to keep giving AMD passes for being "good enough."

You're talking out of your ***. Even something like Athon 200GE isn't slow for day to day tasks like email, Facebook, etc. Heck, you can do all of that just fine with something like Core 2 quad.

 

[bviktor]

No one is going to spend £750 on the new 3959 to just throw it into a b450 board worth £120
No one is that stupid.
The hole idea is *****ic. It may work but no one is going to do it.

I likely will, for my work comp. I need the shortest build times possible, without having to spend crazy amounts on a mobo filled with features I won't use.

Call me stupid if you like.

 

[NorySS]

coming games to take advantage of the additional cores more and more. If we assume the current trajectory continues, I expect 8

1. The 7700K, 8700K, and 9900K all have marginal gains from overclocking. Just look at the 9900KS, which clocks all cores to 5 GHz out of the box, essentially emulating an OC. It's maybe 3% faster. That's more or less what AMD processors gain with PBO, except PBO is far more efficient at doing it.

Sorry for the delayed response, been traveling.

Anywho, Base all core turbo on the 7700K is 4.4Ghz , Techspot was able to overclock theres to 4.9Ghz ALMOST 3 years ago. I've had 3 7700ks over the years. I have yet to see one that doesnt do 5Ghz. (To be fair I do delid them) So even with Techspots 4.9Ghz OC, its an 11% frequency gain.

Intel Core i7-7700K & Core i5-7600K Review

Overclocking & Temperatures. Fast forward to today and we have the official introduction of Intel's 7th-generation desktop processor series. Codenamed 'Kaby Lake', the architecture is said to deliver new levels of performance courtesy of...

www.techspot.com

Intel Core i9-9900KS Review

Intel launched today the "new" Core i9-9900KS processor which appears to be a pointless release, similar to the Core i7-8086K that we never bothered to look at....

www.techspot.com

2. No, the 7700K's high price comes from the fact that upgrade options are limited for those on older boards. The same as every prior top end Intel processor before it, people pay the increased prices because either they don't want to go through the hassle of changing platforms or they don't have the money. It's a lot more expensive to buy a new processor, motherboard and ram than it is just a CPU.

Yes agreed.

3. A 3600 can be used with B350, B450, X370, X470, and X570 motherboards. Not only do you have far more choices, they also encompess a far wider price range and include new products. The 7700K can only be used with boards that are used or out of production. You are sorely mistaken if you think an Intel motherboard for the 7700K will be cheaper.

Have you not seen the prices of AMD mobo? , well to be fair, all mobos have gone up? The old intel stuff is being clear, I picked up a Asus Z270 Apex and Extreme for $210 for both boards, NEW, from newegg. Right now the moment is on AMDs side, and intel boards are dropping in price.

4. Older AMD chips selling for cheap isn't sad, it's good. Not everyone is a PC elitist who need the absolute best. Being able to get an 8 core CPU on the cheap for young PC owners or those entirely new to the space is a blessing. You may not consider it but those on the lower end of the PC totem poll are a very important part of the PC ecosystem. The bigger the PC market, the more devs will cater to it in addition to people willing to take the risk of making their own game for the market.


The 1800X gained significant ground, especially in the case of 1% lows.

FYI most game engines have multi-threading tools built in like Unity. This isn't a conversation of when games take advantage of 6 or more cores, many of them already do. Given that Intel is going from an 8 core to a 10 core mainstream processor I expect upcoming games to take advantage of the additional cores more and more. If we assume the current trajectory continues, I expect 8 cores will be mainsteam in another 2 years and some games will start using more then 8 cores. Then again 8 cores being mainstream isn't that big of a jump given 6 cores at $200 is already mainstream.

maybe my initial choices of words were wrong, but considering at that time, there are less AMD 1st gen Ryzen CPUs out there (quantity), it amazes me that they are going for so cheap.

Think about it, to an average person, they start to wonder, why is it so cheap?

Now something to also consider, and is why I made my initial comments to begin with. The 7700K will be 3 years old next month. How many people are/were happy with their 7700ks performance and more importantly, its resale value now thats its time to upgrade? They'll be able to recoup at least $225 (CPU+mobo sold), to fund their next platform. And when you compare that to 1st gen Ryzen resale prices........................

I mean..... Just look at your fellow youtubers that specialize in USED PC PARTS and have a decent subscriber base.

Dont hate on the used market please.

PS I am not denying Ryzen as the best value/budget king whatever you want to call it. I have both Ryzen, Intel, ThreadRipper and SkylakeX systems.

 

[bviktor]

The Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro Wi-Fi looks great, but it literally cannot be found anywhere. Is that board EOL'd already?

 

[Steve]

The Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro Wi-Fi looks great, but it literally cannot be found anywhere. Is that board EOL'd already?

It's a really bad board, get the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max.

 

[bviktor]

It's a really bad board, get the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max.

Did we read the same article? TS says it's the 2nd best after the Tomahawk. And it doesn't throttle either.

In any case, I need a board with proper TPM2 support. The MSI board does have a TPM header, but no officially supported TPM module, all I could find online is people not being able to get TPM to work on MSI boards, so it's a no-go for me.

Preferably, I also want WiFi+BT, coz I hate dongles, but that's only a preference, not a must.

 

[bviktor]

Just got myself the GB B450 Aorus Pro, and guess what, it won't start after the SECOND reboot if you enable XMP with 3600 MHz RAM. The magic setting is "XMP High Frequency Support", it was on "Auto", but after changing it to "level 2", it seems to work fine. Don't ask what that setting does, allegedly it lowers the clock, but it does not, I'm still on 3600.

 

[MohamedDes]

No one is going to spend £750 on the new 3959 to just throw it into a b450 board worth £120
No one is that stupid.
The hole idea is *****ic. It may work but no one is going to do it.

I am not stupid I just want 3950x for lite gaming and as workstation
so I thought I can save some money with b450
but I am now going with Asus Tuf x570 plus Wi-Fi

 

[JoeC84]

Did you read the article. Lol.

 

[MasterMace]

I read the article and watched the video, but I'm still struggling to find the reason the Asrock K4 was left out of this test.