Thoughts on new build? :)

[nubki11a]

Hi all!

As my computer broke I am going to buy a new one. I have already discussed the parts with a friend, but would still like a second opinion on it. Especially the power supply, as I think it might not be enough (I might want to add another video card in the future).

What are you going to use the PC for?
Main use of the PC will be gaming, I would like to run new games at a good fps and nice grapics. Think of games as BF3.
How much is your budget?
My budget is around 700 euros (about $965). Though I'd really like to keep this as low as possible.
Where are you located? (a.k.a. fill out your profile)
I live in The Netherlands, in Rotterdam.
Are you willing to buy online?
Most certainly, if that will get me the lowest price.
Are you going to re-use any parts from an earlier build?
The parts I want to re-use are my old PC's hard drive and CD/DVD-ROM Player.
Do you need other peripherals like a monitor, keyboard and mouse, among others?
Nope, have all that. Just the computer itself.
Have you already bought any parts?
I haven't bought any parts yet.
Do you have an Operating System (OS)?
I have Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit. So I guess I will have to upgrade to Win7 64-bit
Will you need any aftermarket cooling, such as a CPU\GPU cooler or a watercooling setup?
I would like to have an aftermarket (CPU) cooler, because they seem to be pretty cheap and I might want to OC my CPU (I think around 4GHz should be reasonable, not so experienced in overclocking )

My parts so far are here: http://tweakers.net/gallery/425878?wish_id=208468#tab:wenslijst
Might get a 500W TR2 power supply from the US, cheaper there anyway


I might be able to ship from the US for free if some things are cheaper, though not sure how it will work with taxes on importing stuff.

 

[DKRON]

just post a list of your parts on here, also don't get your hopes up on playing BF3 with any decent graphics with that budget, even the highest parts are having trouble keeping up the frame rate

 

[Blkm0nk3y92]

Idk on a $965 budget I think he would have a decent chance at BF3

 

[nubki11a]

I tried to post my specs here, but it looked kinda bad. But anyway:

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case
€ 84,90
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2
€ 17,95
Thermaltake TR2 470W
€ 54,48
OCZ Vertex 2 SATA II 2.5" SSD 60GB
€ 75,99
Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9R
€ 46,70
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition
€ 139,90
Asus Crosshair IV Formula
€ 119,90
MSI R6850 Cyclone 1GD5 Power Edition/OC
€ 132,90

DKRON, you are right about the bad fps on BF3, but till now it's only the beta. When BF3 will be finished it will run much smoother. I have people in my clan with a bit lesser specs than this and they could still run it pretty high and still get a good fps . But what do you guys think would be the 'weakest link' till now? Because your PC is as fast as it's slowest component right? And also the Power Supply, is 500W enough?

 

[Ritwik7]

Opt for a cheaper case.

Take a look at these and find the cheapest that fits your requirements (keeping in mind all future upgrades):

1. Antec 300
2. CM 690 II
3. HAF 912

For the CPU I would pick the Phenom II X6 1055T. It can be OCd to match the 1090T performance. Try and spend the additional amount on a better PSU and if possible extend the GPU to the HD 6870.

 

[nubki11a]

Thank you for your reply!

Tbh, I wouldn't like getting another case. As I think it looks really nice, and it's also supposed to have a very good airflow. I have always wanted a shiny gaming case
I have looked into buying the 1055T, but I think that I will still buy the 1090T and maybe OC it to 4.0GHz. I think it will also be more futureproof. About the PSU, I just found this 750W one http://www.provantage.com/corsair-cmpsu-750txv2~7CSMC0HK.htm Which I think is very well priced with 20 euros more for a PSU with 250W extra. And it is still within my budget. I might overclock the MSI R6850, as I have read that it is very overclockable if your case has a good airflow. I can also crossfire it later. I have also changed my RAM to Kingston HyperX (1600MHz), which I also found very cheap at http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Tech...O5C0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318536931&sr=8-1 It says something about before and after rebate? I don't know what rebate is and how it works and whether I will have to do something with it or not, does anybody know? Also, now that the Bulldozer FX processors have come out, will the prices for my AMD Phenom II X6 1090T drop? Because I haven't noticed a difference in price yet.

So my current build now looks like this (some of these prices are accurate, as I'm getting some parts from the US).

Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gamer Case
€ 84,90

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2
€ 17,95

Corsair Enthusiast TX750 V2
€ 89,95

OCZ Vertex 2 SATA II 2.5" SSD 60GB
€ 75,99

Kingston HyperX KHX1600C9D3K2/8G
€ 47,50

AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition
€ 139,90

Asus Crosshair IV Formula
€ 119,90

MSI R6850 Cyclone 1GD5 Power Edition/OC
€ 132,90

I am now at €664,50 which is $915.

 

[Blkm0nk3y92]

I know this is slightly expensive, but I hear nothing but good out of it and theres nothing to maintain. If you really plan on OC'ing, id suggest this.
Corsair H60 Liquid Cooler.

Also I too picked the 6850 for my build, but the 6870 is only about an extra $15 so I changed it to that, and it will be worth it. And if your looking to play BF3, you will indeed need as much power as you can get, so I would advise bumping it to a 6870.

 

[nubki11a]

So the MSI R6850 OC is still worse than the 6870? And if I were to take the 6870. Should I just take the normal version, or also a overclocked or customized version. Ill have a look at the prices. About that watercooler, would I really need it if I want to overclock? Im not planning to do some extreme OCing. Just a bit.

 

[Blkm0nk3y92]

So the MSI R6850 OC is still worse than the 6870? And if I were to take the 6870. Should I just take the normal version, or also a overclocked or customized version. Ill have a look at the prices. About that watercooler, would I really need it if I want to overclock? Im not planning to do some extreme OCing. Just a bit.

Mmm, probably not, I haven't even used that cooler personally, but like I said, Im always hearing good things about it. Especially since there's nothing to maintain.

And personally id trust the normal 6870 over the OC 6850, but thats just me.
If you have the cash grab a factory OC 6870 then.

 

[Ritwik7]

About that watercooler, would I really need it if I want to overclock?

The Phenom II X6 range OCs extremely well on air. Take the Corsair H60 if you're looking at very high clock speeds and voltages.

 

[nubki11a]

I dont think that I will go for really high speeds and voltages, so I wont need the watercooler. Is the fan I have now good enough, or could I get a better one for about the same price? About the video card. The OCd versions of the 6870 are about 9 euros more expensive. But there are so many, do u guys have a recommendation? Thx!

 

[nubki11a]

I still have no idea which card to pick from the 100000 HD 6870 cards out there. Can anyone help?

 

[Ritwik7]

Just get any HD 6870 manufactured by a reputable brand like Sapphire, XFX, HIS, MSI, etc. How expensive are the factory OCd versions? Can you stretch yourself to the 6950 or is that way too much?

 

[Blkm0nk3y92]

I can't check now but I think the XFX one has the highest rating/most reviews on newegg right now and comes with S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

 

[klepto12]

i would pick a cheaper case go with the 1055t cpu as it is the same thing as the 1090t just cheaper and lastly drop the ssd and pick up a 1tb samsung spinpoint f3 as a 60gb ssd imo is a waste of money. Also go with the 6870 or a 6950 to be a little more future proof as the 6850 is ok but not the best if your looking to play bf3

 

[nubki11a]

Im off to France for 1 week, after that Ill probably order my stuff. Thx all

 

[agissi]

Save money on the motherboard, just get one with the right socket and enough features for what you need. Chipsets typically only make a 1-2% performance increase at best. I wouldnt buy into these big fancy ones that are "better overclockers" and all that.

I would stick to a 750w PSU. The videocards out today are very power hungry if your grabbing one thats worthwhile for gaming. Remember ATI's new videocards will be here in December / January and the top-end cards feature new GPU architecture that should yield performance increases. Im not sure if programmers / developers are going to have to program to take use of the GUIW or what ever it is (not VLIW) or if ATI's programmers will make all the magic come together in the video card drivers. You dont want to starve components of power and have something come up with a short life span, plus if you OC you want stability (overhead wattage).

Get an Intel Core i5 or the like. Those 2 extra cores the Phenom features arent going to do crap for you in games, and that chip is super power hungry. A Core i5 will smoke the chip you listed in every way except video editing, Photoshop, 3d rendering or audio production. Unless games such as BF3 are now coded for 6 cores, Im not sure if they are but I dont think so. We're lucky if they take advantage of 4 cores. Plus the Core i5s OC so darn well its a blessing from god, even the non K series you can bump up the FSB which is just as good, you just may be a bit more limited since its OCing the mobo too instead of just the CPU. You may even get better performance OCing through the FSB instead of just the multiplier because the memory will be talking at a faster speed as well. I wish someone has done a write up on a clock for clock benchmark session regarding OCing the multi VS FSB.

Do you really think your going to game on a 60GB SSD? BF3 takes up like 8GBs or so if I recall correctly. At that rate your going to run out of page file / swap space. Wait a year until they become cheaper, you'll be happier with a SATA III one that is 550mb/s data transfer rate anyways. Or if you have to have one get a 1TB HDD for $60 and a Z68 chipset Intel motherboard so you can use a 40 or 60GB SSD as a cache, then all of your most accessed files will boot off the SSD and you'll still have space for your other games, applications and movies that you dont access as often but want there.

When looking for 6870s get the one thats best bang for buck. So organize the list by price, lowest to highest. Then look at the clock rates of the GPU and memory, and the card's cooler.
Example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eactivatedMark=False&Order=PRICE&Pagesize=100

As you can see here the clock rates dont differ very much, probably because the cards are already running so hot therefore closer to their highest potential speeds. One of the $220 cards that are clocked 50MHz faster on the GPU dont warrant the $40 premium over one of the $180 cards. Thats a 22% more money for a 5.5% clock rate increase, which might warrant 3% better performance at best. When thats a fraction of a single frame rate because your playing BF3 at 1920x1080 /w 4xAA that makes it a waste of money.

So I'd grab the Sapphire because I like that brand and I see some copper on the cooler, plus I checked out their website and it looks like a pretty big cooler after all. You can probably OC it 50MHz yourself for free and it'll work fine. But really 50MHz isnt worth the added stress on the card and possible instability after a few good hours in BF3.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102948

I bought this case (on sale for $70) because it won the TechSpot case shootout for best temperatures and its very affordable given its level of performance.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112322

 

[agissi]

The Phenom II X6 range OCs extremely well on air. Take the Corsair H60 if you're looking at very high clock speeds and voltages.

Core I5s OC even better, and I love AMD before anyone trys to start a loyalty contest here. The Phenom x6 is a 130w CPU VS the Core i5 is a 95w chip so its going to run a lot cooler and yield a better overclock in everyday in every way.

 

[agissi]

I still have no idea which card to pick from the 100000 HD 6870 cards out there. Can anyone help?

When looking for videocards you wanna pay attention to the Stream Processors, the effective clock speeds of the GPU and Memory and the amount of RAM on the card. From what I gather 2GBs of memory will help when you play at very high resolutions with ultra high textures. The more detail the textures have, think of them as pictures with a higher level of quality and detail, the more space they take up in memory. The textures your using in the game get stored in memory while your using them, playing, because they need to be accessed very quickly. Having them come off the hard drive as you pull up on some new kind of landscape would be too slow. So they get loaded while you wait for the level or game match to start.

So we can see the ATI 6950 has: Stream Processors 1408 Stream Processing Units, at 800MHz on the GPU.

The 6870 has 1120 on the GPU @ 900MHz.

Those extra stream processors are what make up the performance improvement in benchmarks & reviews.

 

[hellokitty[hk]]

On the contrary, IMO GPU's are getting much more efficient power wise.
I'd say that the antec high-current 620w is more than enough.

Although the 2500k is a fabulous chip, I think you're discounting the hex-core too quickly.The intel platform will end up being more expensive anyway.

Saphire has cool colors, and I like the look of shinny copper as well, as long as it doesn't tarnish. If that's a problem I think many vendors will have nickle plated copper.

 

[agissi]

Clock the $10 more expensive Core i5-2300 at 4.4GHz with DDR3 1600 or 1866 and you will have a system that spanks the Phenom X6 silly. And why does it matter if the copper tarnishes? It sits inside your computer case. And ofcourse it will because its being exposed to oxygen and heat. Nickel plating it is probaby a loss because nickel isnt as good of a conductor as copper. The 6870 might use 200watts of power under load, Im pretty sure its around there. It might be 180 or 150 I cant remember quite right, I'd say its 180w +/- 20w. Add in a Core i5 sucking 200watts of power and your up to 400w in just two components.

 

[klepto12]

Clock the $10 more expensive Core i5-2300 at 4.4GHz with DDR3 1600 or 1866 and you will have a system that spanks the Phenom X6 silly. And why does it matter if the copper tarnishes? It sits inside your computer case. And ofcourse it will because its being exposed to oxygen and heat. Nickel plating it is probaby a loss because nickel isnt as good of a conductor as copper. The 6870 might use 200watts of power under load, Im pretty sure its around there. It might be 180 or 150 I cant remember quite right, I'd say its 180w +/- 20w. Add in a Core i5 sucking 200watts of power and your up to 400w in just two components.

i disagree with this post my system with a i5 2500k clocked at 4.9Ghz and gtx 470 clocked over 800 mhz and 2 dvd burners 2 external drives 8 gb of ram 2 hard drives and 6 fans pulls a little over 500 watts refer to this

 

[red1776]

Clock the $10 more expensive Core i5-2300 at 4.4GHz with DDR3 1600 or 1866 and you will have a system that spanks the Phenom X6 silly.

While very dramatic, it's also completely inaccurate. I have worked with both , and own the later. Guru3D does a nice battery of tests and in these, the 2500K and the 1100T split with 7 wins each, it even best's the i2600K on the video compression test. When you get into heavily threaded apps, the x6 will run at or above the 2600. I am not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that the i2300 will hand the x6 its ***.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i5-2500k-and-core-i7-2600k-review/1

The Phenom x6 is a 130w CPU VS the Core i5 is a 95w chip so its going to run a lot cooler and yield a better overclock in everyday in every way.

This not true either. The X6 is a 125w part, (the x6 1035 is a 95w) and the temperatures are comparable. temperature is not a linear function of number of cores.

any two comparable CPU's will get very close frame rates as the CPU becomes less a factor unless you are gaming at very low resolutions. If you are looking towards Ivy bridge, go with the intel. they are going to use the 1155 socket as well.

 

[agissi]

Oh ya you bet; I dont know exactly how much power a motherboard pulls, I know hard drives are something like 20 or 30watts each, and look at how much power those videocards really pull! Unbelievable! But believable if you know how small and efficent cards were and how unefficient they've become compared to before. But they're also doing marvelous things today. Thats why I'm waiting out for the 7000 Series ATI cards. Even if I dont get the latest and greatest I'll get a slightly better card that'll run longer, less heat, less power, happier system.

So it looks like a 750w with today's mid-to-highend videocards is an appropriate bet.

temperature is not a linear function of number of cores.

Thanks for charming in Red and the teachings from you guys. I aim to learn.

 

[agissi]

Red: Heres my point as previously stored internally after looking 18 pages into the review you posted. The Core i5 2500k comes very close / just above the phenom x6 in many applications, but with its overhead in overclocking, using a $50 aftermarket cooler, it generally seems to smeer a Phenom x6 on the walls. Especially in practical applications that we use moreso often. That is ofcourse opinion and I have no facts or sources to currently back it up. (not enough time, quite, either)