Ubisoft's new DRM more annoying than expected

[Relic]

Tom good article link, I've seen it before and Mr. Ghazi covers a lot of important issues. If I recall correctly he doesn't dive much into the overall complexity of piracy though which honestly could take hundreds of pages to elaborate on every position of gray. He does dismiss the common ones though, and shows that a good portion of people are just doing it cause they can and it is wrong. He also points out something that is usually overlooked; customer support for non-purchasing individuals. Which is even looked down upon by many pirates and file sharers themselves and is a very real loss.

I think the numbers are perfectly relevant. Tell me what business can survive and maintain a good quality product as well as develop new products when 14 out of every sale copy is stolen? This argument is a simple one. DRM exists because rampant theft exists. Stop the theft and the DRM will go away. Not only will the DRM go away but companies can again begin to focus on providing us quality PC games instead of the crappy XBox ports we're getting now.

I have to say my time here on TS reading your opinions I'm finding you in regards to piracy tend to cherry-pick numbers to make your case and then simply ignore other information. This cat and mouse game between companies and pirates will never end, and even if it does DRM and content control will not go away simply because piracy stopped and you should know this. I'm assuming you take these viewpoint of piracy being wrong, illegal and equivalent to stealing to make point. But it's not that simple, and it is not a black and white matter.

 

[TomSEA]

Relic - you don't think downloading stolen property is wrong, illegal and equivalent to stealing? How would you categorize it then? And I don't believe I do any more cherry picking of numbers than anyone else. What I used in this debate, I took from Mr. Ghazi's article. Anyone is free to go there and use whatever numbers they find as a counter.

Matthew - I understand what you're saying and not ignoring your point. I'm of the opinion that DRM - although I'd rather not have it - is something that is not an issue with my game play. Never has been. I've been playing PC games since the first Ultima came out on the Commodore 64 30 years ago. I've seen every version of DRM you can imagine and it has never interrupted my game play. In playing Dragon Origins right now - I entered the game key when I did the install, I logged onto EA live for the authentication, and if I want to view my player stats, it will authenticate again. No big deal and no different than being on Steam. And although I'm aware some players on rare occasions have spoken of DRM conflicts with their systems, I've never experienced it personally, nor have any of my game playing friends experienced that. It's like people are going out of their way to make a big deal out of something that's not.

The game companies make the bulk of their money in the first 3 weeks of sales. That's why they have some form of DRM to try and provide enough deterrent from having their product cracked to make a profit. And that's why Ubisoft and EA put a little different twist into each DRM they put into their new games. No doubt it eventually gets hacked and posted on BitTorrent - I've never denied that. But I think they're entitled to protect their profits, especially if it doesn't impact the game play. And I find it comical that people will open themselves to all sorts of packet-sniffing and identity farming while using Facebook, Twitter and the other utterly non-secure social networks, but will scream bloody murder about DRM.

Lastly, regardless of type of DRM and it's invasiveness or lack of, it most certainly has now become the most commonly used excuse to steal. It's literally become carte blanche. "Oh, the game has DRM? Well I certainly won't be paying for it, I will steal it instead."

Again, I'd like to see the focus on those that steal, rather than those are trying to prevent the stealing.

 

[r3claimer]

Summary:

DRM is retarded because it just pisses off the people who buy the game legitimately.

Argument: Software developers can't simply choose to do nothing in the wake of piracy.

Revocation: DRM doesn't even affect pirates, so in essence it's wasted effort. They are only losing money by creating new and more complex DRM.

Final Analysis: Providing incentives is useless, giving free DLC's to legit users is pointless. DLC's will be cracked and torrented.

Solution: Back to the drawing board. DRM needs to be scrapped. There are endless possibilities awaiting discovery. If companies spent the same amount of money with R&D of alternatives to DRM as they do to the DRM itself, then they'd have a working solution by now.

(it's not a difficult concept to grasp Tom. Piracy is wrong, granted. But companies need to make it easier for users to install and play their games. Cracking teams will beat DRM regardless. What people are saying is the getting rid of DRM couldn't hurt the industry more than issuing it. All evidence points to the very opposite.)

 

[r3claimer]

And before you talk about your sales in the first 3 weeks thing, let me just say that people who know how to pirate games are going to cry in woe when they don't see the game in the first 72 hours. They don't want to spend cash, so they don't spend cash, it is that simple. Waiting a short amount of time is not going to drive people into running to their nearest department or game store to flush $60 down the toilet on a game filled with DRM. It's much easier to sit on your *** and let some hacker somewhere in the world do the work for you a week later.

And honestly, it's just laughable to tell TS admins to write articles on Pirates. If Pirates don't have a problem breaking the law to get a game, what makes you think they give a damn about what a Tech website writes about them? Zippo my friend. And what does everyone else care about the whole pirate thing? Generally nothing. They buy the game and deal, or they don't. Simple as that. The majority of people don't go to online forums and argue their opinions about an issue almost completely unchangeable by the public, but we're just a special brand of people now aren't we?

 

[Darkshadoe]

If Assassin's Creed 2 was not sold in, lets say, Antarctica because the government there banned it yet 10,000 people in Antarctica download it off torrents, How much money would Ubisoft lose?

Answer is 0$. They had no potential sales in Antarctica, so they couldn't have lost any money.

The piracy numbers that these software companies spit out are not even close to being accurate. They are using the grand total number of torrent downloads to report how much they think they lost rather than the loss to potential customers.

The software companies are just as much to blame for the piracy problem as are the downloaders. Maybe when they start playing straight with the customer, the customer will do likewise.

 

[Guest]

For those who are asking for an alternative to such DRM integrations, I believe it was answered a couple posts in...

"I don't even understand how this is supposed to prevent piracy - illegal downloaders have always just played offline or on hacked servers.

I agree that paying customers should be rewarded in some way, perhaps some dlcs if you provide a serial number or proof of puchase or something..."

Namely "serial number or proof of puchase". Simple solution - implemented on a country to country basis. If it works for warranty, extended warranty and returns, why not? If I buy electrical goods and they don't work as they should, I will go into the place of purchase (with proof of purchase) and get it replaced.

Personally I have been more than happy with just CD-Keys, with or without online authentication (online would have to be essential these days though); beyond that it is a serious pain.

 

[Whiffen]

Lots of valid points in the comments and I would have to agree that they need to come up with a better solution than DRM.

It makes me WANT to pirate the game rather than pay for it, just to avoid the hassle DRM can cause.

This is only punishing people who are buying the game, and not the pirates. Games will get pirated like it or not and many of those people have either never intended to buy it in the first place or maybe gave it a download to see if its worth buying at a later date.

I can see where you are coming from Tom, about how they should be doing something to protect their work, but DRM is not the answer. It's detoured me away from buying it.

 

[r3claimer]

Guest said:
For those who are asking for an alternative to such DRM integrations, I believe it was answered a couple posts in...

"I don't even understand how this is supposed to prevent piracy - illegal downloaders have always just played offline or on hacked servers.

I agree that paying customers should be rewarded in some way, perhaps some dlcs if you provide a serial number or proof of puchase or something..."

Namely "serial number or proof of puchase". Simple solution - implemented on a country to country basis. If it works for warranty, extended warranty and returns, why not? If I buy electrical goods and they don't work as they should, I will go into the place of purchase (with proof of purchase) and get it replaced.

Personally I have been more than happy with just CD-Keys, with or without online authentication (online would have to be essential these days though); beyond that it is a serious pain.

Yeah, having a CD-Key would work, if Key Generators didn't exist. "What if we checked it every time we turn on the game?" Well, that would require an internet connection and would increase loading time a heck of a lot. And hey, maybe their servers overloaded. You did everything right but it doesn't matter if companies can't handle internet traffic.

Offering incentives...It's a nice idea. But what happens once someone gets the DLC? They Crack it and off it goes to the torrent websites. As for warranty incentives? Oh please. Torrent communities are much more dedicated than companies in terms of providing support. #1, don't need to return something you never paid for #2, if something doesn't work, you've got dedicated uploaders who actually take time to help answer problems users face.

Hmm, now isn't that interesting? An uploader, nay, an entire community of volunteers providing support for people absolutely free of charge. Wow! What an original concept! Now why can't software companies do something like that instead of making wait on their customer support line then redirecting my call to India?

The simple fact is that Torrent communities are easier and far more helpful than software companies. People would be more inclined to buy products from software companies if they were more helpful. And yes, I am suggesting that game developing companies imitate torrent communities.

And even if people were to get rid of torrents once and for all, then that'd be great. But then you've got to deal with Newsgroups. That's a whole different story right there. Everything conveniently provided by way of your ISP (unknowingly I suppose you'd say.) Basically, these things are easier and cheaper to use than buying the games, and that's why people use them. Steam may be the one exception, and honestly, if companies would put some money into promoting that service, it could do nothing to hinder the PC gaming market.

 

[r3claimer]

I would like to add that I am not supporting Piracy, but it strikes me very odd indeed, that torrenting communities created by people with small funding (compared to companies likes EA and Ubisoft) are able to create such orderly and well functioning websites. And yet, commercial companies like EA and Ubisoft are somehow unable to provide more than a support hotline. Oh they have their forums, that require you to make an account, send in your personal information, and wait a few days for an answer that should be solved in less than an hour.

It's tedious, it's annoying, and certainly flawed. Example: I Played Call of Duty: United Offensive for 3 years on my computer. It stopped working one day. I sent in my DirectX Diagnostic into Activision's / Infinity Ward's support page.for the game. Their analysis? That my computer couldn't run game because it didn't meet the minimum requirements. Brilliant deduction considering I'D BEEN PLAYING IT FOR THREE YEARS ALREADY! I mentioned that in my initial message. Long story short, they don't help you on a case by case basis. They analyze data, check it against flawed reference sheets, and move on.

 

[Captain828]

After reading all the comments here, all I can say is:

1) piracy numbers are irrelevant: everyone knows PC games are heavily pirated;

2) DRM is something that the public hates. It doesn't matter if it does or does not give you gameplay issues because of it (personally, had none). Why? customer perception. You CAN'T change that!;

3) I see mentioning Steam (or Stardock's Impulse) as a moot point: search for a Steam/Impulse-only AAA game and you'll see it on torrent trackers;

Back on-topic with AC2, I find their DRM solution totally wrong... it makes little sense to have to need Internet connection for a SP game that has NO MP. I don't think you need to be a genius to see this isn't the right way to DRM a game.

And regarding a possible solution to DRM, I'd say if all the major game companies united to create a unified digital distribution platform (and I'm not talking about Steam here) then piracy would be much less of a threat. A unified platform would imply far less distribution issues and would be easier to maintain.

But no... instead we have MS' GFW Live Marketplace, Valve's Steam, Direct2Drive, Stardock's Impulse and EA Store ALL competing. Why this way? well they all want a cut of the pie.
And while competition is great, it's obvious Steam is the winner here, yet it still doesn't do that much against piracy.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, having a CD-Key would work, if Key Generators didn't exist. "What if we checked it every time we turn on the game?" Well, that would require an internet connection and would increase loading time a heck of a lot. And hey, maybe their servers overloaded. You did everything right but it doesn't matter if companies can't handle internet traffic.
...
As for warranty incentives? Oh please. Torrent communities are much more dedicated than companies in terms of providing support. #1, don't need to return something you never paid for #2, if something doesn't work, you've got dedicated uploaders who actually take time to help answer problems users face.

No offence, but you *totally* missed my point, entirely.

I said I have been happy with CD-Keys, NOT that I am suggesting it as a form of DRM (at all).

Instead, I am saying the solution maybe within a proof of purchase / receipt / barcode based system. A system which, as far as I known, can't be easy emulated. Mainly due to the fact every electronics store would have some kind of record of sales; numbers, codes etc

And the warranty thing was just an example of proving ownership/purchase to companies who you bought products from, that's all.

 

[windmill007]

What happened to good old Cd-Keys? Couldn't they just have a different key for each game sold and make people activate once..Kinda like windows? Make it so it can be activated a few times before requiring you to call in to explain why your going over the limit and black list ones that are being activated 100 of times? Seems simple and not complicated. Save your money and lower the price of games. If you make it easy for regular people and cheap enough no one will pirate. Make it expensive or add DRM then you will loose even more money. And you shouldn't have to put the damn CD in everytime you want to play the game after it's eben installed and activated. Seems simple to me.

 

[MrAnderson]

I'm not against DRM; I'm against the haphazard implementations that only cause paying customers grief. Moreover, in this special case, it is appropriate for Tech sites and customers alike to criticize poor business decisions with no obligation to suggest a solution.

That is the primary job of the publishers and DRM providers. You see, some one will make money off of that instant when they come up with "a better solution", thus I'm not going to just give it away.

Nevertheless, I will perform an exercise in logic.
- Publisher test their games, thus they should test DRM implementations.
- DRM implementations can be tested in game demos and other free content.
- Reward testers of DRM implementations
- Gather information (in a none threatening way) from anonymous people regarding their downloading habit and positions on illegally downloading interactive content to get better information that can be used to complement the download numbers they throw at us.

That is just a few ideas, but they are no brainers.

Other Considerations:
This new DRM implementation that Ubi Soft plans to put into practice, I believe, only serves the short term purposes. I noticed a trend in all IP fields that leads firms to do business on the platform of maximizing the release sales of their products in the areas that are common place first. This means that they are going under the assumption that the DRM will be cracked, but hoping it will take longer in order to maximize sales. All this is at the paying customer’s expense. If this process continues, the sales for these products will continue to taper off. However, they will neglect to acknowledge that the poor DRM is at least some what responsible for the loss of paying customers. The scapegoat will continue to be “the illegal downloads”. The positive side of this is that this kind of market opens the doors to the independents to revitalize a hybrid or modified shareware system again.

 

[isamuelson]

Just remember people. Playing a pirated game does not necessarily translate into a fully functioning game. Many games these days have code that can tell if it's modified and in more than one place and will change the outcome of the game or else, it will crash because the "patch" was a hack job. I think this is another area where pirating can hurt sales, even more-so than just not buying it. Why? Because if the game appears to be buggy (because of it being patched), then the word will travel fast that the game is a POS when in reality, it may not be.

Remember, the hackers don't have the actual source code to go by. It's a lot of reverse engineering, etc, so who knows if they've REALLY fixed the checks or did they modify the program enough that now it can't get past certain points? I know many games are programmed this way to the point where you get somewhere that will not allow you to complete the game due to the hack.

So, I think this hurts the sales of the game even MORE so because now people are getting the impression that the game is buggy when it might not really be the truth.

Still, this type of DRM is just plain wrong. I won't go and pirate the game, I just won't buy it. Hopefully, they'll learn and like Bioshock, release a patch that will get rid of the online requirement. That's just plain wrong.

 

[0n1n3]

If Ubisoft really wants to stop piracy then there is no need for DRM at all. All they need to do is impress the customers. Fighting the media pirates is a losing battle, every single time a corporation has gone up against them, they may have won a few battles but inevitably always lose the war.

TPB may have sold out but now the founder of the bay has opportunity to persue other business ventures. So all you did was free up his hands for other projects.

What bothers me is when Publishers hire incompitent developers based on hollow promises impossible of ever being fulfilled. The money wasted in that way is at least just as much as is wasted on piracy, which doesn't really amount to very much considering that if they were not so eager to tick off their customers then they would have all those customers, and the rest are people that would not have likely bought the game in the first place. And if they do play it, wouldn't you want to make a good impression and encourage an inviting environment, instead of bullying everybody else around like you're some Mr. Perfect Tough Guy?

How is EA's sales pitch working out for them lately? Have you been paying attention? Whether or not you are paying attention, not everybody in the world is stupid. I'm not stupid, we aren't stupid and we formate educated opinions, but I'm convinced that corporations like Ubisoft sit around the table wondering what best way they can screw people over to get out a few more bucks to cover their lousy management choices and policies.

And no, we will not bail you out. I hear this constant opinion from conservative techies about how "the people" or the customer has this "entitlement theory", that we feel entitled to receive and that blah blah blah so on and so forth, which is utterly ridiculous. The alternative to that complaining is people going out and pirating your games.

This may be a business but it's also an art, and you are subject to artistic criticism just like every other form of art and design. They talk a big game about intellectual property but I think they are more concerned about putting their flag down in somebody else's hard work than they are actually developing creative and expressive forms of art. Because a lot of their games are just clones of each other anyway.

Ask EA how they're doing and whether or not they have any regrets. They might act clean in public but behind their desks their scared as heck because the boats sinking and the false ego isn't worth enough to keep them afloat anymore, and little by little I'm sure those developers they've stepped in the way of--you know, when they tell you to change your art because it's not "mainstream" enough--are starting to pile up over the years.

Think whatever you want. Do whatever you want. But whatever you do, stop being such a jerk. Stop standing in the way of forward progress. Put more emphasis on delivering a quality product and you won't have to worry about people pirating your 2nd rate game that isn't worth the used toilet paper stuck to my buttcrack.

 

[Guest]

Piracy is why I've stopped playing most games on the PC. DRM is a publisher response (and a valid one, after all YOU expect to be paid for your work, right?). The problem is when the pirated copy becomes superior to the legitimately purchased copy due to the fact they bypass DRM. I don't care what business you are in, if you steal a better product than you can purchase, how many people will seriously want to pay money for the product?

Current DRM strategies kinda feel like companies are firing different anti-piracy ideas at their consumers and trying see what sticks. It's kinda shame that mostly they're hitting the people who buy their product and making them not want to buy it. And while it's easy to point out flaws when your choices are "buy it, steal it, or don't play it," making a product feature that creates tension between the creator and the consumer really doesn't help anyone (except pirates who get more supporters).

Granted the most simple DRM is usually to make an MMO instead of single player game and make money off subscriptions. Then again, if you keep a game mostly single player while having additional on-line content, it might be a better system. The best example I can think of right now is Demon's Souls (not a PC game, but does use a good online system I like). Demon's Souls is a single player that gets a bit better playing online because you can access hints left by other players, see how other players died (a very common part of the game), and see 'ghosts' of what other players are doing. Implementing a system like that instead of just the current system of "Let me see you license and registration every 3 seconds" might provide a bit more goodwill. After all, people who legitimately purchase the product would then have something superior to what you can steal.

 

[captaincranky]

DRM good, DRM bad, Companies good, companies bad, stealing good, stealing bad, yadda, yadda, yadda, really people, don't you people know what a conundrum is? It's like they say, *******s and opinions, everybody gets one of each.

I would direct this to the piracy is good and stealing is justified segment of the argument; I always continue to hope for poetic justice, and hope that you clowns will develop some intellectual property, so that the rest of us can steal it. Then you'd be whining a different sermon now wouldn't you? But sadly, there's little chance of that, since you're all so busy stealing from everybody else, and I doubt you have the talent anyway.

 

[Guest]

What about a dongel? Pop it in the USB, it authenticates your game. You keep it, it`s yours to pay when you wish. I`d pay £10 extra for a dongle than keep to this DRM of UBIsoft.

I think a £5-£10 dongle is far less draconian than this 24\7 DRM.

 

[r3claimer]

Guest said:
What about a dongle? Pop it in the USB, it authenticates your game. You keep it, it`s yours to pay when you wish. I`d pay £10 extra for a dongle than keep to this DRM of UBIsoft.

I think a £5-£10 dongle is far less draconian than this 24\7 DRM.

Again, it's a nice idea, but people could just crack to game so that it doesn't need the dongle to play. Even if they found a way to block that tactic, you could always rip the software on the dongle and edit it to always say you have a legit copy of the game. Plus, the dongle would need to be constantly updated to keep up with game updates. =\

 

[r3claimer]

Guest said:

Instead, I am saying the solution maybe within a proof of purchase / receipt / barcode based system. A system which, as far as I known, can't be easy emulated. Mainly due to the fact every electronics store would have some kind of record of sales; numbers, codes etc

Again, that's great, keeping a record and all, but it's no different than how companies keep a record of which CD keys are used. Proofs of purchase are great, but how does one provide such every time they start the game? They'd need an internet connection. It's no different than current DRM. As for bar codes...Please explain how one provides that (or something like it) over the internet? Furthermore, please tell me what would keep a hacker from cracking the code on it? It would just be another piece of software after all.

I know what you're getting at here, but you don't seem to grasp that if companies just use some generic piece of software that's coded to prevent piracy, a hacker will find a way to beat it. Whether it this lousy DRM, SecuRom, or a digital bar code, if it's software, there's a way to crack it.

 

[Guest]

I downloaded Assassins Creed from a torrent site and played for about half an hour before getting bored quiting and never going back, if I had paid for the game i would be very disappointed, i download games to try and only buy the ones that are going to offer at least a few months of game play or good online play.

Unfortunately some of the game company's IE: EA games charge a lot more for the same game here in Australia compared with the US or UK so when I do buy a game I purchase it online from Asia or India at 1/4 the price.

 

[Guest]

It's sad: I was actually considering buying this game (or SC:Conviction), since I really liked the originals (and the developers, for me, are ~20 minutes away by car) but that's be pointless now. I often travel to a friend's cottage in the country (Eastern Townships, not far even for the devs if they are reading this) and there is no internet there. None. At least there's electricity. So if I want to play the game, I have to be in the city with internet and cannot take my laptop away from that and play it there? I'm sorry, but as of now I have no more reason to even think of buying this game.

That, and even today, people loose their internet all the time - sometimes for weeks at a time if you get into an argument with your ISP. Heck, now I can't even reboot or tweak my router without saving the game first? What kind of system is this?

I understand that developers want to protect their rights (and make money). But I have a limited budget, since all my time is taken up by annoyances like Calculus and the like, and I will not spend my money on something that restricts me from using it in certain locations unless I fork out cash to another company (the ISP).

 

[Guest]

I know what you're getting at here, but you don't seem to grasp that if companies just use some generic piece of software that's coded to prevent piracy, a hacker will find a way to beat it. Whether it this lousy DRM, SecuRom, or a digital bar code, if it's software, there's a way to crack it.

You are right, but no, that's not what I am saying. Think factory serial numbers, or for example what are known as "VIN" numbers for cars.

In Australia every car made will have a "VIN" number, which upon being sold (from a dealer/showroom) will be registered to someone via the vehicle registration (Rego number, number plate etc). This is on a database for both police checks, registration checks and for car re-sales. There is absolutely no way to "emulate" this without someone simply checking the register and catching a criminal out.

I'm proposing a system (maybe on a country to country basis), where that a game is purchased from a store (any) and contains a unique factory serial number. Once you get home and open up the box, you will be able to see it (e.g maybe on the booklet) and it will detail methods to contact a free hotline, of sorts. Either via the internet or phone, or even a checkout desk at big electronics retailers.

Once you contact the company and quote the number, they will give you a different code - UNIQUE to your copy. No special software generating a series of possible numbers based on an algorithm/instruction set. Just 1 factory number and 1 corresponding activation number. All of which is as easily accessible as possible (the game companies responsibility), giving different methods.

I know that doesn't sound like a fully thought out plan, but if I had one, I wouldn't just give it away haha. As someone said in the comments, they make money off these moves.

 

[AzureCuzYeah]

Are you out of your mind? Do you really think that this hurts the pirating community? Of course it doesn't? The same day will be dozens of torrents offering these new games. UBIsofts product hurts paying customers and no one else. How does limiting the paying customer help stop the pirating community. It doesn't.

 

[Guest]

1. It's pointless to argue about piracy as it will NEVER go away...no matter what. PERIOD.
2. Yes, some DRM is annoying & sh*t. The more annoying it is the more likely that hackers would like to crack it as they like the challenge. Why bother spending efforts in annoying DRMs when they should be spending efforts in making the game better & better???
3. People would buy simply because of a good game. Much like the music industry...if they keep shipping out sh*t productions, I would never buy another CD. Imagine buying a CD just for 1 song u like, & in this case u hate the game u bought just 5mins into it!!! it will end up on ebay & that is no extra money earned for anyone.