# Who also plays guitar as a hobby?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nick Lee, Apr 3, 2008.

1. ### Nick LeeNewcomer, in trainingPosts: 151

lol, I know I want to get maybe medium strings. I have the Hard case that came with the guitar which in my opinion is really good. I am good with math and I never said I couldn't learn to measure it. Its just that I have tape measure (a no go) or a ruler which sicks because at closest it can go to 16th and I could guess at half of that to be a 32th but it wont be exact as I don't have a ruler to measure really tiny things. Thanks for making the truss rod thing understandable.
2. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

Rulers aren't what's called for when measuring string clearance.

The ideal way to do this would be with a set of "feeler guages", which are different measured thicknesses of metal designed to be inserted between two objects. This is how spark plug electrode gap is measured, All you need to do then is learn to deal with decimal to fractional equivalent conversion. IE 1/16 " = .0625

The truss rod sits in an very low radius groove under the fingerboard. When the adjusting nut of the truss is tightened it pulls the rod more into a straight line, and with it the neck. The groove is deepest in the neck around the 5th to 7th fret. So, tighten the rod, the neck bends backward.

As I said before, the quitar neck must be slightly "warped" (lower at the 5th fret) to avoid buzzing. So, don't go flying into this adjustment, this is just FYI.

Electric guitar necks are very much less prone to warping than acoustic necks because of a lower action and very much lower overall string tension. In acoustic guitars, sometimes the sound board warps upward and in so doing increases the height of the action.
Then there's the 12 string, which should actually be tuned 2 to 4 half steps lower than the E to E of standard guitar tuning. Somewhere from D to D and C to C. Then you use a capo the bring it up to standard pitch when playing. Most acoustic twelves won't survive very long tuned to "concert pitch". Not to mention they're almost impossible to finger. Try a bar chord on a pitched up 12, get to know what pain is.

Some players use the lower tunings anyway, due to the fact most baritones can't hit the top "G" in the G open chord.
3. ### Nick LeeNewcomer, in trainingPosts: 151

The informations helps a lot, not to sound stupid but where can i get some feeler gauges?
4. ### rev_olieTechSpot ManiacPosts: 598

Nice one there captaincranky good info.

You can get them in loads of places just do a google product search youl find them anyware amazon.com even!!.
5. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

I Hate to Quote Myself But, I Didn't Finisn the Thought.....

The classic example of this is the famous Beatles song, "Yesterday", sung by Paul McCartney The acoustic is tuned in a standard tuning, but from "D" to "D" So, the Yester......Day...,Ay..., Ay...,Ay. , comes right down a"G" open chord, "G", "D"
(B string, 3rd fret), "B" open string), then "G" (3rd string open. But he's actually singing "F", "C", "A", "F".
I'm really old so I've actually heard yesterday, (a #1 hit), hope you guys have too.

Ah yes, feeler gauges, an auto parts store or perhaps a Sears "Tool Dept", you want a thick set that goes up to .060 or so, so you don't have to put too many together..
6. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

I Hate to Quote Myself But, I Didn't Finish the Thought.....

Double post, sorry
7. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

Nick, blocking the tremelo means that you set it where it cant pull up or dive. For example, the Floyd Rose trem's on any of my 4 vintage Kramer guitars floats on the trem post and back springs. If I blocked them, they are still set up the same way just the trem will not move. Some do this when they have tuning issues. But if you know what you are doing with a Floyd Rose trem this is not needed. Blocking the trem can be done with a tremsetter or even shims or smal blocks of wood set between the tremelo baseplate and the body of the guitar in the trem route.

For fret buzz....what you describe could be several things as pretty much already said. The tremelo may need raised, the frets may need a dressing (DO NOT ATTEMPT YOURSELF!), fret job (replacing frets). Truss rod may need adjusting as well. You may also need to remove the neck and place a thin shim in the rear of the neck pocket. On a guitar as old as yours, a fret dressing may be in order. Look closely at them, is there any pitting or valley's on the frets?

In my years of playing guitar, adjustment of the rod or raising the trem a little corrects this issue. Truss rod adjustment is done at the headstock end under the truss rod cover, or at the heal of the neck. I would imagine yours is at the head stock though.

EDIT: Remeber, the old Tokai's today are pretty collectible and some are worth a good bit. If I were you, I would take that guitar to a reputable guitar tech and have it set up properly. You'd be amazed at how much better a guitar sounds and plays when its intonated right and everything is set properly.
8. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

huh??? Are you quoting this from somewhere or what?

9. ### Nick LeeNewcomer, in trainingPosts: 151

Thanks for the tip, I was thinking of going down to cornerstone and seeing if they could help the truss rods and have it intonated right.
10. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

Well, Actually......

I've played the guitar for forty years, (not well, but including the 12 string), and gotten a couple of "A"s in English Comp recently.
Are you saying you like or dislike the the style, disagree with the conclusions, or suggesting I'm plagiarizing the material?
11. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

I've been playing for 22 years. Got a Fender 12 string acoustic that has been in standard tuning for years and its held up very nicely. This guitar is very easy to fret to. Maybe its the build up of calluses on my fret hand. What you say about the way a 12 string "should" be tuned makes no sense to me at all.
12. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

I have an Emachine T-5026 which is over 3 years old and going strong. People tell me that shouldn't be so.
I had a guitar teacher, Eddie Paffett, who had a fender acoustic tweve 12, bought it new, kept it tuned up to concert pitch. I saw him 5 years later and asked him if he still had it. "No, it fell apart", said he. As always, individual results may vary. There are a lot of factors involved, obviously, string gauge, string height, body size, and neck width (for playability).

Manufacturers, suggest the more extreme down tunings. 3 or 4 half steps. (Ulterior motive, they have to enforce the warranty). I use 2 down since I don't try and play that often. Muscles and callouses go away. If you fool around with an electric constantly and then jump to a Guild Jumbo 12 with .056 low "E" I'm pretty sure you'd think it's a slug. I had a Guild Jumbo 12 and an Ovation Matrix 12 at the same time and there was no comparison in the playability of the two guitars. When I tried to put a very light string set (.047 bottom E) on the Guild, the beautiful sound of the all maple body just went away. Beautiful sound with the heavier strings, but it was a slug. I always kept the ovation at concert pitch.

Roger McGuinn tunes his Rick down to F# for "Turn, Turn, Turn, but I'm sure he's accommodating his vocal range, not the guitar.

I saw Gene Clark play "Malaguena" on an Ovation 12 String. That was years and years ago, to this day I'm still impressed.
13. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

You are a lucky man with that eMachines still kicking!

But for an acoustic to fall apart? Never in all my years have I heard of that, or the tunings you spoke of. My Fender acoustic is as nice now as it was when I got her years ago. I take care of all my guitars, dont even let anyone else play, much less touch them. Especially my Kramers! I even have a Ibanez AE10 6 string acoustic that is maybe 10 years old and its still kicking, and a Godin A6 acoustic that is in pristine shape. And believe me, I am not a Fender or Ibanez fanboy at all. Never cared for their electrics either. Both acoustics were great deals when I ran across them is the only reason I have them now. I would like to have a nice Taylor or Martin acoustic one day though.

What guitars do you currently have?
14. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

Was it Built on a Monday or a Friday.......

I suppose that guitars as well as cars can have lemons, built with pride and a heavy hangover. Plus, you never what those musician types are smokin'.

Anyway, when the man said "fell apart" I think he meant warped badly. My Ovation 12 string started to crack along the soundboard braces, but I never found out if it was just the finish or it went deeper into the wood.

Anyway, I'm still amazed that you've never heard of tuning 12 strings down. (Just as much as you're amazed that I have). It is in every instruction booklet I've ever seen. Granted that the 3 or 4 step down is too extreme, but 2 is nice, and when you capo up two, you get the added benefit of the capo reducing the overall action height. Well, there is a drawback, when you capo up, you run out of neck on the high end real quick. And if you capo on an odd key, the position markers, are out of sync. So, for people such as myself, who are "tonally challenged", you lose the ability to "play by eye".

I'm hard core lefthanded, so it's difficult for me to find guitars "off the rack" as it were. Right now I have an Epiphone Acoustic 12 string that I found in CC Philly at Eight Street Music. Once upon a time, there was the "Left Handed Guitar Store",, but I think they've been under for years. I'm suffering from "Googleus Interruptus" at the moment. or I'd tell you for sure. (Not down, just lazy).

IMHO, the trouble with many acoustics is that the luthiers set the neck directly in a straight line with the sound board, wheras I believe it should be set at a slight angle, with the headstock dropping slightly toward the bottom of the guitar. This then requires a higher initial bridge setting, and as the axe settles in, (read the strings pull the neck upward), you still have plenty of room to drop the bridge and set a nice action height. I've just seen too many of them with the string riser buried deep into the bridge proper to think otherwise.

As I frequently state, "your results may vary", and good luck luck with all your "babies".
15. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

Oh I never said that I'd never heard of drop tuning a 12 string. I also never looked at an instruction manual for a guitar! lol Alls I was saying is stating that 12 strings should always be dropped tuned was a little far fecthed to me. But there are only a few songs that I play where I would have a need for a 12 string, a few covers and a few originals. I love playing "She talks to Angels" and "Uncle Tom's Cabin" on a 12 string. And "When the Children Cry" sounds really sweet on a 12 even though it was written for a 6 string.

Is the Epi your only guitar now? You never said.
16. ### captaincrankyTechSpot AddictPosts: 8,753   +267

I don't suppose you'd go as far as "it's not a bad idea" in the spirit of compromise?

Guitar manuals are sort of like DVD player instruction manuals in that you read the first one, the all the rest are just skimmed for quirks. Well, not quite as complicated.:rolleyes:
17. ### halo71Newcomer, in trainingPosts: 1,290

How about agree to disagree maybe?!? Just kidding, yeah I guess its not a bad idea. Just not a requirement.
18. ### saiokeNewcomer, in trainingPosts: 16

i played for 4 years and i still suck. i have a epiphone les paul special 2 with gold hardware and they dont even sell them anymore with a basic 10 watt fender amp.

i play everything but i like appegio songs like house of the rising sun the most.
19. ### Nick LeeNewcomer, in trainingPosts: 151

I bet that looks like a pretty sweet axe. ^_^
20. ### mercenary10Newcomer, in training

I used to play electric bass, quit a year ago though