Lol, there are people who actually use cleartype?

Yes. Aliased fonts look wrong to me.

Okay, something MUST be wrong. When Karma was first introduced, I saw people like Howard with loads of little green squares, but then it all went a bit wierd or something? QUE?

Now I never see ANYONE with more than one box?

Also, under my profile I have some green, one red, and a few GRAY squares? W*F?

And -11 points? Huh? I then get a green box for a good post and I get -12???

WHAT???

And I keep getting good Karma but my box is still red, due to some bad Karma I got from a little tussle I had with an immature poster that was out for trouble?

If any one could explain it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I think the Karma concept should be removed. Why? Because it doesn't work. Today I made a helpful post, gave them good info displayed a 2 products I though were better for them and what do I get? Bad Karma! I don't know maybe it was how I worded it I guess tones can't be sent over the internet. People can interpert it however they like. Still, I could give anyone bad Karma for doing a good job and thats why it doesn't work. So ditch the stupid Karma box TechSpot.

EDIT: I also don't know how posting something that has already been said is bad karma. You see it may be anoying but, if more than one person says it (in the same thread) then the more the person is reassured.

Originally the system was screwed up, that is why you saw lots of blocks. That issue got fixed. There still is potential to get lots of blocks, they just accumulate much slower now. I believe Howard has 2 green blocks.

Now I'm not sure if there are other glitches that prevent this thing from operating how we had intended or not. But ideally there would be a display for each post, really 2 ratings, 1 would be the overall karma a person has from every post of theirs that has been rated, and the other would be just for that specific post. Perhaps not even showing overall outside of that person's profile. And karma would be turned off for posts in Meeting Spot, Introduce Yourself, and Site Comments & Suggestions.

Unfortunately not everyone can get what they want, and there is only 1 person to my knowledge that can actually implement these things.

There was also a fairly lengthy discussion on this whole thing in the Site Comments & Suggestions forum a while back. Perhaps if you go through and read that you will better understand what is going on.

The karma system is not working. it isnt achieving the desired objective instead its more to do with popularity in my opinion.

With all due repect (and I mean that) Howard would obviously have more karma points as he is usually the first one to greet in the Introduction forum and the Securty and Web forum too. (Both being very polular).

And if someone becomes unpopular then he/she gets rained down with negative karma's.

So I dont think the system reflects the ability of the person.

Here's my perspective......

If and when the karma system is working, you receive the karma you deserve. If you said something stupid, then you get bad karma; and vice-versa.

Here's simply example.

Okay cfitzarl. If thats how you feel I'm reporting you. Yeah thats right, you only gave a helpful comment. But I'm a jerk and I just like reporting bad karma. Thats how I felt, because anyone can record bad Karma even if it was a helpful post.

Now I'm not really going to do that, because your to cool.

As SNGX already explained, the first time the karma system appeared on the boards we were barely experimenting to see how it worked. All those records were deleted and we started from scratch with the new "improved" weightings.

Currently the system is on a long-run trial basis, we now understand it better and have given a lot of thought on how much importance or weight should be given to each factor. The reason I brought the system in the first place was because of members' feedback, and so because this is still a trial we might get rid of it eventually if it doesn't add to the experience. I understand some of you may feel undermined if you have bad scores (although I yet have to see a single member with such a bad score that a positive one won't revert), but that is how the system works based on other members feedback left for your posts.

Some of your comments seem somewhat uninformed. The system has been discussed in the past and some hints have been given on how karma is calculated. In general terms, you should get positive karma for a "good" or useful post, and bad karma for a post that is not anything close to that. As with any kind of system that accrues values over time, the idea is that it will become fair as more posts and more votes are made. This is no popularity contest, as in theory it shouldn't target the user directly but the post made by that person. Also we can not work under the assumption that a majority members are jerks otherwise I believe this forum could not even exist.

It will be hard to explain every single calculation made by the system since we did not develop it, not to mention no system is perfect however I can assure you I have put a lot of thought for having this work the best way possible for TS. Here are some pointers:

- New users can not give karma, they have to earn altering power through other members votes or number of posts or time spent on the boards. (This invalidates the idea that Howard, for example, gets many of his votes from new members in the Intro forum).

- You get 1 karma power point for every:
500 posts made
180 days as registered user
60 karma points earned

- Users with negative karma do not have altering power.

- Users will show a 'balance' gray button for karma between -15 and 5. Anything below that starts to show red bricks, and above 5 shows green bricks. You earn an extra green brick for every hundred karma points you earn.

- When you give positive karma to a member, that member receives the number of karma altering power you have. But when you give negative karma, that user is only punished half of your altering power.

- Users are limited to five karma clicks per day.

- Users can not give karma to the same person until they have hit at least 15 other users first.

PS: Karma related threads merged
PS2: On a side note, you should note that there are guidelines for signatures that some of you do not follow (for example 2-3 line limit).

That karma system looks cool, I gotten about 2-3 negative karma from people who I made mad :haha:

But how then am I red if i only have 1 negative?

I have an idea (oh here we go), just for trial proproses, everyone on this thread or person who sees this, give me Karma, (good or bad I don't care) ans see how my "points" system is affected.

See?

In my opinion, TechSpot is turning into eBay, in the "feedback" beng "karma".... and for a Tech forum site I really think that this shouldnt effect advice people give, or the perspective view of someone with "bad" Karma. At the end of the day they don't have to take your advice!

Look in the mirror and think hard whether you would complain as much if you had two green blocks..

IMO the karma system is very good for a tech site. Many people give totally wrong and irresponsible advice that is distracting could even cost a lot of money to the person they are "helping". Not to mention data loss that can be unmeasurable in any material way. Bad karma might make these people think twice about posting dubious information.

Also, in many threads we end up with different or conflicting advice given by different members. Karma gives people some information about the average quality of advice a person gives and hopefully shows how trustworthy his or her advice is.

ooo so lets put you idea to the test Nodsu.

Oh shock horror i am a newbie who gave some duff advice on a thread because I was bored.

Oh look! I have been given bad Karma by Nodsu! Ooo what can I do.... hmmmm.... perhaps I should give him bad Karma! Yes! that would be revengeful and fun!

Ooo at a post count of 3 or 4 I am one of those newbies that only register for advice on a problem, and now I am going to leave and never return.

....Meanwhile all these hard working addicts and enthusiasts take the knock for thinking that "giving bad Karma" will sort all the problems and stop bad posts! WRONG....

Oh shock horror i am a newbie who gave some duff advice on a thread because I was bored.

Oh look! I have been given bad Karma by Nodsu! Ooo what can I do.... hmmmm.... perhaps I should give him bad Karma! Yes! that would be revengeful and fun!

For a start, you wouldn`t know who had given you bad karma. ;) Also, newbies as you call them, can`t give karma good or bad. See Julio`s quote below.

- New users can not give karma, they have to earn altering power through other members votes or number of posts or time spent on the boards. (This invalidates the idea that Howard, for example, gets many of his votes from new members in the Intro forum).

- You get 1 karma power point for every:
500 posts made
180 days as registered user
60 karma points earned

- Users with negative karma do not have altering power.

- Users will show a 'balance' gray button for karma between -15 and 5. Anything below that starts to show red bricks, and above 5 shows green bricks. You earn an extra green brick for every hundred karma points you earn.

- When you give positive karma to a member, that member receives the number of karma altering power you have. But when you give negative karma, that user is only punished half of your altering power.

- Users are limited to five karma clicks per day.

- Users can not give karma to the same person until they have hit at least 15 other users first.


Ooo at a post count of 3 or 4 I am one of those newbies that only register for advice on a problem, and now I am going to leave and never return.

That`s always been the case and I suspect will continue to be so.

....Meanwhile all these hard working addicts and enthusiasts take the knock for thinking that "giving bad Karma" will sort all the problems and stop bad posts! WRONG....

No one ever said the karma system would sort out bad posts. All it`s designed to do, is inform members who`s replies can be trusted based on the posters karma level. I can see where this would be quite useful in a thread where confliciting advice has been given.

It is still early days yet and Julio has already said that if it doesn`t work out, it can be got rid of. I don`t see what the big fuss is about really.

Read Julio`s post (http://www.techspot.com/vb/post427298-58.html) again. All the info you need is there.

Regards Howard :)

ooo so lets put you idea to the test Nodsu.

Oh shock horror i am a newbie who gave some duff advice on a thread because I was bored.

Oh look! I have been given bad Karma by Nodsu! Ooo what can I do.... hmmmm.... perhaps I should give him bad Karma! Yes! that would be revengeful and fun!

Ooo at a post count of 3 or 4 I am one of those newbies that only register for advice on a problem, and now I am going to leave and never return.

....Meanwhile all these hard working addicts and enthusiasts take the knock for thinking that "giving bad Karma" will sort all the problems and stop bad posts! WRONG....

Another thing a n00b could do is create duplicate accounts and give people loads of bad Karma.

No, a new member couldn`t do that. New members can`t give karma at all.

Anyone signing up under more than one account name, is liable to be banned. That`s because it`s against our rules to have more than one account.

Taken from HERE. (http://www.techspot.com/extras/forum_guidelines/index.shtml)

Each member is entitled to have only one forum account and must provide a functional e-mail address (not made public unless you've agreed to).

Again, look at Julio`s post. ;)

Regards Howard :)

When is a member able to give karma?

Howard its not that hard to create several email addresses. Its just as easy to create several TS accounts. Its even easier to level those accounts up. And then all that person has to do is give people fake Karma.

Infact you can just leave out the create the email accounts if they just use www.spaml.com. It seems like just a little to much effort but people will do it. Usually the young and immature people.

- New users can not give karma, they have to earn altering power through other members votes or number of posts or time spent on the boards. (This invalidates the idea that Howard, for example, gets many of his votes from new members in the Intro forum).

- You get 1 karma power point for every:
500 posts made
180 days as registered user
60 karma points earned

- Users with negative karma do not have altering power.

- Users will show a 'balance' gray button for karma between -15 and 5. Anything below that starts to show red bricks, and above 5 shows green bricks. You earn an extra green brick for every hundred karma points you earn.

- When you give positive karma to a member, that member receives the number of karma altering power you have. But when you give negative karma, that user is only punished half of your altering power.

- Users are limited to five karma clicks per day.

- Users can not give karma to the same person until they have hit at least 15 other users first.


Hope that helps.

Regards Howard :)

Howard its not that hard to create several email addresses. Its just as easy to create several TS accounts. Its even easier to level those accounts up. And then all that person has to do is give people fake Karma.

Infact you can just leave out the create the email accounts if they just use www.spaml.com. It seems like just a little to much effort but people will do it. Usually the young and immature people.

Yes, but as I`ve already said. New members can`t give karma.

It only needs a mod to check an account to know if multiple accounts have been made. It takes less than two minutes to check.

Regards Howard :)

Hmm Howard you are getting carried away, and your "double post" is a sign! I am tempted to give you bad Karma!


Oh and something really stupid,

" Time paradox is an unknown quantity at this point " - Wtf? I may be Scottish but I do know that this is utter rubbish.


And what the heeck, yesterday I was on red, now im grey. I havent recieved anything!

Howard its not that hard to create several email addresses. Its just as easy to create several TS accounts. Its even easier to level those accounts up. And then all that person has to do is give people fake Karma.

Infact you can just leave out the create the email accounts if they just use www.spaml.com. It seems like just a little to much effort but people will do it. Usually the young and immature people.

*cough*IP Addresses*cough*

Hmm Howard you are getting carried away, and your "double post" is a sign!

Lol, I wasn`t getting carried away. I posted a reply to cfitzarl. By the time I`d submitted my reply, there was a post by beef_jerky4104. I therefore replied to his post separately.

I am tempted to give you bad Karma!

Obviously, that`s completely up to you, but on what grounds may I ask?

Regards Howard :)

I'm sorry but I won't bother explaining everything again if you don't even care for reading this forum guidelines (SIGNATURES) and my explanations for the Karma system. All your new questions were already addressed in my post (e.g. new users can not give karma, etc.)

Now, don't be fooled into thinking there is a democracy in these boards as for the most part this is merely a friendly dictatorship.
At this point you may want to start thinking about treating everyone with respect and read whatever they have to say to help you and don't keep complaining about something you don't even want to understand.

Obviously, that`s completely up to you, but on what grounds may I ask?

Regards Howard :)

Wel... on the grounds that I am like the majority of "Bad Karma" giver.... nieve and stubborn and quite frankly ignorant of others.

I was kind of hoping for a sensible answer, but obviously that was too much to hope for. ;)

I think all your questions and objections have been addressed. If you still don`t like the karma system, I guess there`s nothing we can do. You`ll just have to live with it I`m afraid.

Regards Howard :)

I was kind of hoping for a sensible answer, but obviously that was too much to hope for. ;)

Regards Howard :)

Wow, don't worry, I was making a point (an ironic one). I am not really going to give you bad Karma.

The karma system is not working. it isnt achieving the desired objective instead its more to do with popularity in my opinion.

With all due repect (and I mean that) Howard would obviously have more karma points as he is usually the first one to greet in the Introduction forum and the Securty and Web forum too. (Both being very polular).

And if someone becomes unpopular then he/she gets rained down with negative karma's.

So I dont think the system reflects the ability of the person.
I left good karma for you so your boo-boo don't hurt anymore!

*cough*IP Addresses*cough*

The website makes no mention of recording IP Addresses. I'm tempted to start a legal action.

Yeah right, this place it to helpful and cool.

Edit: Ooops! Wrong button.. -- Nodsu

No, a new member couldn`t do that. New members can`t give karma at all.

Anyone signing up under more than one account name, is liable to be banned. That`s because it`s against our rules to have more than one account
Each member is entitled to have only one forum account and must provide a functional e-mail address (not made public unless you've agreed to).Howard its not that hard to create several email addresses. Its just as easy to create several TS accounts. Its even easier to level those accounts up. And then all that person has to do is give people fake Karmabeef_jerky,

do you really think that people are actually going to go to all that trouble just to give somebody bad karma? especially since they have to build up a reputation under each potential account before they are even allowed to give karma to anybody else. under the "new" karma system, there are restrictions in place to help prevent abuse. no matter how it is set up there will always be a possibility for abuse, but it simply isn't worth anybody's time to do so.

the "new" karma system is much better than the original. it helps to promote a friendlier and more helpful community by holding people personally accountable for what they post. if people give helpful and relevant advice, and give it in a respectful manner then they may receive good karma. on the flipside, "one-liner responses", "opinions-stated-as-fact" responses, and sarcastic, rude, or insulting responses are never helpful and will likely result in the poster receiving bad karma. that's all there is to it.

don't be so paranoid, the karma system is still in it's infancy here at techspot. let the system mature. and just post helpful, relevant, and respectful responses and soon enough you'll have so much good karma you'll be glad that the system is in place.

cheers :wave:

The website makes no mention of recording IP Addresses. I'm tempted to start a legal action.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all services you use on the Internet record your IP address and in many places they are actually required to do so by law. You might as well sue people on the streets for remembering your face.

Recently there has been an arguement within the members of Tech Spot. IT concerend Karma. Simply as a concerned user, I posted my opinion. A few days later I get loads of negative Karma. Dear Tech Spot members, nothing is wrong with disagreeing with me. But I did nothing wrong, I was not rude, I followed all Tech Spot rules and I was punished. That alone should be reason to stop the plauge of the Karma system. I an offended. I thought this was a mature community where people were excepted for there ideas. I remeber RBS. When he quit I disagreed with him. But he was write.

The essense of Karma is "You get what you give".

So I displayed my point of view. And people respond imaturely.

I will remain an active User at Tech Spot. But I will not support Tech Spot.

EDIT: I would just like to make it clear that I feel that Techs Spot has disowned me. And let me down. I really thought this was a great place. Where everyone was respected and had enough disipline to follow the rules. But then again why would we need moderators if that was true. But even the moderators have turned there back. Even they condone the unseen action that occurs on Tech Spot.

beef_jerky,

do you really think that people are actually going to go to all that trouble just to give somebody bad karma? especially since they have to build up a reputation under each potential account before they are even allowed to give karma to anybody else. under the "new" karma system, there are restrictions in place to help prevent abuse. no matter how it is set up there will always be a possibility for abuse, but it simply isn't worth anybody's time to do so.

I'd do it.

The karma system is not working. it isnt achieving the desired objective instead its more to do with popularity in my opinion.

With all due repect (and I mean that) Howard would obviously have more karma points as he is usually the first one to greet in the Introduction forum and the Securty and Web forum too. (Both being very polular).

And if someone becomes unpopular then he/she gets rained down with negative karma's.

So I dont think the system reflects the ability of the person.

Thats how I feel. And its happening as we speak. And most people here condone it. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who sees the truth.

KARMA...is overated

Threads merged, as the subject is being discussed in this thread and it does come under the heading of Site feedback and Suggestions.

beef_jerky4104: I`m sorry you feel let down, but let me try and make some points that may or maynot help to explain the situation.

A member who doesn`t have a lot of karma points can quickly find themselves swinging wildly from a positive to a negative karma points total simply by someone giving either positive or negative karma to one of their posts. No one is immune from this at the moment, not even mods.

This is to be expected and is absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Don`t go thinking that just because someone has given you negative karma, that Techspot has a problem with you. As far as I`m aware that is most certainly not the case.

There are several safeguards in place to try and prevent abuse of the karma system and on the whole, I would say they appear to be working properly.

Also, as Julio has already said quite plainly, the Karma system is in a trial phase and can be got rid of at anytime, should Julio see fit to do so.

Regards Howard :)

Recently there has been an argument within the members of Tech Spot. IT concerned Karma. Simply as a concerned user, I posted my opinion. A few days later I get loads of negative Karma. Dear Tech Spot members, nothing is wrong with disagreeing with me. But I did nothing wrong, I was not rude, I followed all Tech Spot rules and I was punished.

- I totally agree, and to prove my point, after showing MY 'personal opinions' I received 6 bad Karma blocks in 22 hours! Oooo that must mean the the people on the thread who were 'listening to my opinions and trying to sway me into giving the system some time' - (Howard!) are the ones using it to dog me down, exactly NOT what it is for and what people believe! This proves that it doesn't work.
Also to prove that it doesn't work - after receiving all those 'lil red bricks what did I do? Out of malice I merely returned the favor by giving red blocks to the people who were against my views who I suspected tagged me! Further proving the b*****t of the system.

Amen

And how do you know who gave you bad karma? :confused: ?

by giving red blocks to the people who were against my views who I suspected tagged me! Further proving the b*****t of the system.


Please fully read my post next time or I may be tempted to give you bad Karma!

I refuse to believe there are people out to get you, in general this community seems pretty friendly. What I'm seeing here is a few people getting wound uptight about this without using their heads. As an individual user you can see what threads you got karma in, now if you can show an overwhelming amount of your negative karma is coming from this thread then we may have an issue that can be addressed. But if they are coming from threads outside of this, you may need to go back and see if you actually had a decent post(s) in the thread.

Now right now it seems you Sjbrand99 are the only one abusing the system, and beef_jerky seems like he'd abuse the system if he had an easy way to do so.

If we want to analyse this a bit further - You (Sjbrand99) told me to **** off in a thread earlier (http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthread.php?p=428042) where I called you out for jumping all over a guy that brought up a post 3 months old, you mistakenly thought he brought it up from 3 years ago. Then I see you post right after me in the Canadian Net Neutrality thread, and magically my Karma goes down. That isn't the way to go about things.

Sjbrand99: cfitzarl asked you a simple question, but you have to come back with some totally unhelpful crap. Then you wonder why folks end up giving you negative karma.

Basically, you`re just assuming who has given you negative karma and you`re therefore trying to give negative karma to people based on your supposition. However, you need to realise, that people with a negative karma level, can`t give karma at all.

As I tried to explain earlier, karma levels are going to fluctuate wildly at the moment and it`s completely expected. Karma is meant to be used for rating posts as either helpful of not helpful and that`s all.

There really is no need to blow it out of proportion or get hot under the collar about it.

Regards Howard :)

My question to you Howard is how many positive feedbacks do you need to reach that nifty second bar ;) .

101 karma points will give you a second green block. How quickly you achieve that, is dependent on who is rating your posts. Karma altering power is based on the info that Julio gave earlier on in this thread.

Regards Howard :)

Okay, thank you Howard! I seem to have missed that :( . Only 44 more points to go ;) .

I'm closing this thread temporarily until further notice.

Thread re-opened...

I think I have figured a way of making good use of the Karma system without pissing off users receiving negative scores.

* If you thought there was too much of a coincidence that mostly users with negative karma complained, whether it was deserved or not, they do have a point that a negative karma invalidates somewhat the rest of their effort and time spent making good posts.

I apologize to those users that felt undermined or thought we did not appreciate their collaboration, that is not the case at all. I asked for patience getting the system sorted out, and part of the corrections are here.

* Users with positive karma will keep showing their green bricks.

* New users with 0 karma or negative karma holders won't show anything.

* I have removed the rather bland descriptions for karma holders, instead they are showing numeric values that correspond to their karma points earned.

* Overall the rules and weights for calculating karma remain the same as the last time I covered that in this discussion.

* The recent changes should keep the karma system principles the same, while avoiding that certain members feel 'publicly' attacked if they receive negative feedback.

* I hope you understand the karma system has the only purpose of enhancing participation, adding value to the community and pursuing the best behavior from our members.
We must remain operating under the assumption that people come here to get informed, help others, and talk their passion for technology...

I think it was a good idea to get rid of the Karma titles and just replace them with the points total. Getting rid of the negative Karma blocks is also a good idea and will hopefully go some way to calming the the recent situation down as regards members who have a negative karma rating.

Will members with negative karma ratings still be able to see their points totals in their user profiles?

Regards Howard :)

Hmm... the green karma blocks are a good way of letting new users know the standing of the person who has replied to their post. Its no point having a karma system, but new users can't tell that we have it in place.

Some other forums have a small line saying how much positive feedback a person has received. It'll be equally effective to replace the green blocks with this.

I am missing something here I guess.

Just who is giving this stuff to whom?

If a poster gets help and forgets or ignores the 'karma' thingie, the helper gets nada.

Or are you saying readers other than the original poster can rate each other and play silly buggers?

Somewhere I missed this.

:)

I believe anyone can give anyone else good karma, if they are eligible to give anyone karma. I've received tons from a single post, in a thread I started, so that explains quite abit.

And yes, if people don't give the other guy karma, they don't get it.

Julio and Mods. I understand you want to try and further interest in the forums with one thing or another, and that's commendable. BUT (notice the big but?), I don't think this site or forum really needs it. There are already titles...whether or not these are needed is up for speculation. In my honest opinion, this forum stands on its' own. People come here to offer help and receive help. There are a ton of good people here willing to lend in. We really don't need something to spur us on. Either one person has the knowledge to help or he doesn't....it's not going to stop us from reading on in the hope that we might be able to pitch in.

I really enjoy these forums. I haven't been as active lately due to real-life getting in the way, but I'll never stop coming here unless Howard stops buying the beer (was I supposed to say that?).

Nonetheless, I'm of the opinion that the Karma system isn't needed for reasons stated above and others.

That said....please forgive me by crapping on your parade, as such, and let's get back to what we do best....help each other.

Thanks.

To Enthusiasts, Addicts, Gurus, et cetera, et cetera:

My participation began about 2 months ago, and I have been observing the contributions being made by the more active members. I respect the collegial behaviors that are at work in these forums. I laud everyone for their generous commitment of time and expertise.

Before I posted my first problem, I tried to gauge who in these forums could be judged to be credible and trustworthy. Until today I knew nothing of karma. Best I could surmise - titles were bestowed based upon a secret rating scheme and controlled by the “society” within the TechSpot forums. In my first days here, I used ‘join date’, ‘posts’, and title as a measurement. This karma ‘thingie’ has possibilities to establish a visible measure of knowledge, helpfulness, and politeness. Let’s give it a chance.