here's my 2¢...

the idea behind implementing the Karma system was very good, because post count alone does not indicate post quality or a member's know-how. I do believe that this forum needs some form of merit system to reward members who consistently give well thought-out, fully explained, good advice (as opposed to useless one-liner responses, or personal opinions stated-as-fact responses).

one major problem with the karma system is that only members with good/high karma are allowed to give karma; but for the most part, they are not the ones asking questions. new members ask most of the questions and need the most help. if you take time to help a new member figure out their problem, there is no way for them to give you positive karma as a "thank you" for helping them.

another issue is that the majority of negative karma seems to come from the non-technical forums. these forums have nothing to do with a members "technical credibility". but people are being penalized for stating their opinion on social issues, etc. karma should be disabled in those forums (and to be honest, I don't think post count should increase from posting in those forums either ;))

instead of a karma system, I think the forum should have a "thank you" system instead. when you have helped solve a problem, you can be "thanked" for your time and effort. in this type of system, there is only positive response, not bitter negatives. the colored blocks can still be used to reflect the number of "thank you's" a member has received.

just my 2¢... cheers :wave:

But ideally there would be a display for each post, really 2 ratings, 1 would be the overall karma a person has from every post of theirs that has been rated, and the other would be just for that specific post. Perhaps not even showing overall outside of that person's profile. And karma would be turned off for posts in Meeting Spot, Introduce Yourself, and Site Comments & Suggestions.
I said that early on in this thread, and I'm disappointed that it didn't get implemented because I think that would have solved 95% of the recent complaints.

Although I will be glad to no longer have to read time and time again how you guys got negatived by someone in this thread, you guys wanted the karma shut down from the start and continued to bring that issue up after several days of this thread being idle. Also to all you guys that gave them negative karma in this thread, shame on you, you knew the system wasn't meant for that and yet you still did it. Both groups there are guilty of this and it irritates me that you allowed it to and contributed to it happening.

Hopefully now we can focus the time spent complaining on solving real problems.

what a relief....

Well said, indeed, KingCody.

The karma system is now dead (I think you all noticed).

As promised, the system was still under close evaluation and despite of the fact it could have worked quite well under ideal conditions, its actual use fell short from what was intended.

I guess some of you did enjoy the ride while it lasted, some others not even close, I just hope you all understand that in the end we were simply looking for ways to enhance the experience in our community (not just being stubborn about it).

So what's next for new board features?
* Who was online today feature is back!
* New registration verification system (simple text questions) replaces out of date CAPTCHA system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha).
* Testing phase for the "Thank You" system.

In the next few months: We will upgrade to a new CMS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system) version (still under heavy development). This will be done site-wide and the system will integrate much much better with vBulletin. As a result news comments will be once again integrated to these forums, uncapping potential for heavy commenting off our frontpage news stories.

Nice, Julio. After thinking about it, I did agree with Howard's post (http://www.techspot.com/vb/post438770-143.html) earlier in this thread. Can you give more details about the "Thank You" system, Julio?

Julio, why not just 'KISS' the Karma thing - allow the original poster in a Tech problem thread to thank someone, no negative at all. Sure, not all problem solver/shelpers will be thanked, but enough probably will to get a flavor for who is helping (after all, it is the helping that counts isn't it?).


:)

Well, I realised that I've posted in alot of threads in the Overclocking, Cooling and Modding section, and many of them mentioned that I was a great help.

But when I checked my Karma, nobody had bothered to give me any good karma.

I'm not complaining about it, I am not worried about my "virtual points". Or post count. I'm here because I have an interest in computers, and I get my help, and I help others.

But I'm bringing it up to show that its not used well enough. Idealistically, every post should be commented on, and given karma points. But here we are at the very opposite of the extreme, where karma points aren't awarded at all. In fact, if you checked my history, I've got a whole bunch of karma points for my overclocking guide at the start, and from there, its all from this part of the forum. A whole bunch of negatives, then a positive when I mention that people have been giving me negatives.

Obviously not being used as intended.



I reckon that a "thank you" thing should be good, where your points can only go up. And it should be VERY VERY obvious. www.overclock.net seems to have a good system, where it is immediately apparent whose posts are highly regarded, and how to "thank" the guy who helped you. A small green block is easily missed. the thumbs helped abit I assume, but if you didn't know there was a karma system in place, you wouldn't have any idea you should be rating someone's posts.

I've never been a big fan of popularity contests. To me they're superficial.

lol just read this post today, had to reply to your quote, yeah that's true, but usually the people that feel that way are the less popular! IMO you're kinda harsh in responses sometimes. I know we all would rather teach a man to fish than to fish for him, but not everyone that comes here wants to build computers, they are just looking for a quick answer and in the time you post your very same three lines...Did you read the FAQ, did you read the guides, etc etc, you could just as easily state what you know, because more than likely I think in terms of knowledge base on this site, you may be in the top 90 percentile. I saw that you didnt like your red line when the karma scores were being implimented. Did you ever thing that someone voted not in favor of your score because you seem to post something other than your favorite 3 lines only when its a non technical issue(it seems that way) such as this thread.

When I first came to this site I didnt know much. I asked a simple question about sound cards, You had the first response. I almost didnt return to this site again, until MetalX helped me. Sometimes my friend people just want help, not directions to where to get help

Well I guess it depends on what we consider advise, I dont consider sending people to other places way more than actually giving people helpful knowledge "advise" too much. I think the short time this was implemented it did show who is helpful. Its not for you to determine if you have been helpful. Its up to the person that's getting the help to decide how helpful you were. If you didnt like your rating for the short time that you had it and you want to complain you should try giving advise rather than redirecting people. If you're a good submarine sandwich maker and I ask you to make me one "please" dont send me to freaking subway.

I reckon that a "thank you" thing should be good, where your points can only go up. And it should be VERY VERY obvious. www.overclock.net seems to have a good system, where it is immediately apparent whose posts are highly regarded, and how to "thank" the guy who helped you.
Thats because if its visible people get their feelings hurt when their posts suck, instead of doing something about it and making better posts, they complained about it, and then some people abused the system to negative their complaints.

If you guys didn't figure it out on your own I was the one that originally brought this up in discussion with Julio and the other mods. Things didn't work out as I envisioned in implementation and use. During its failure I came to think that this community just won't embrace any type of rating system. Some people like it and would use it properly, but most people won't use it at all, and a very vocal few will complain enough about it to cause a disturbance amoung members.

Meh, I was starting to like the Karma system.

Oh :( I liked it too. I hope this "Thank you" system can be just as good.

***If it were up to me I would have a poll, and after a couple weeks check the results. A simple Yes or No poll to see who wants the karma system perhaps?***

Okay somebody call RBS back! ;)

Hmm... good point on this community not ready for a rating system... Maybe because we get childish people around?

:D

***If it were up to me I would have a poll, and after a couple weeks check the results. A simple Yes or No poll to see who wants the karma system perhaps?***

I can do that. Do you guys want a poll? (Probably the answer is NO ;))

It's really not a matter of who wants it or not, its a matter of it's effectiveness, and correct utilization. A thank you system would be a far better solution, because of its lack abusive potential.

I like the thank you system. Maybe we should make a poll about it? :)

That is a possibility..Maybe see what Julio thanks about it?

I like the thank you system, would be worth trying, that's 3 peopls now all we need is 300 more, lol

I think a thank you system sounds good. As twite said, lack of abusive potential.

I see no need for a poll. There seems to be plenty of support for it already...


instead of a karma system, I think the forum should have a "thank you" system instead. when you have helped solve a problem, you can be "thanked" for your time and effort. in this type of system, there is only positive response, not bitter negatives.Well said, indeed, KingCody.
So what's next for new board features? ~
* Testing phase for the "Thank You" system.I reckon that a "thank you" thing should be good, where your points can only go up.I like the thank you system.I like the thank you systemI think a thank you system sounds good.

EDIT: ...and besides, according to Julio's post, It's soon to be in it's testing phase :)

that's 3 peopls now all we need is 300 more, lol3? I count 7 so far (well, technically 6 since KittyCat posted after you ;))

:wave:

I have a different suggestion than "Thank You", one that I think would be better.

A "helpful" and "solved" for each post that only the poster can choose.
http://web.umr.edu/~ddavison/temp/helpful-solved.png

What it looks like when you click one each of those can be seen here (too big to screenshot): http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=946770&tstart=0

Looks alright...

I'd like to see this Thank You system first hand. Let's just go ahead and do it. :)

I have a different suggestion than "Thank You", one that I think would be better.

A "helpful" and "solved" for each post that only the poster can choose.


That sounds and looks like a pretty good idea.

Regards Howard :)

That sounds and looks like a pretty good idea.

Regards Howard :)
I second that too =)

cheers,
Momok =)

Why restrict the buttons only to the original poster? Threads are (hopefully) read by many people after the starter has had her problem solved and these later readers may want to show their appreciation too.

Not to mention that the original thread author may be a braindead moron who refuses to take good advice while a bright person (who remembered to use the search feature) coming along later on may find something very useful.

lol not many morons make it to this site bud. Only found maybe 2 out of about 150 post this past 2 weeks. And I think it would be good to restrict it to the poster of the thread, although it may be useful to others reading it, this way I think people will have a more accurate understanding of how much help a person is actually giving. In your situation. You could have one thread posted by one person, 50 people give him thank you votes for it, then you have another guy who's actually solved 50 different problems and got one vote each. yeah so, you get it...if you're not one of those morons, lol j/k

Why restrict the buttons only to the original poster? Threads are (hopefully) read by many people after the starter has had her problem solved and these later readers may want to show their appreciation too.

Not to mention that the original thread author may be a braindead moron who refuses to take good advice while a bright person (who remembered to use the search feature) coming along later on may find something very useful.

I second Nodsu.

And what's wrong with 50 TYs, if 50 people feel the need to express their appreciation (even for one post) ?

there is nothing wrong with thank you's i think you're missing the point. the point of the whole karma system was so that people would know who was reliable or not, What I'm saying is that a person with 50 thank yous for 50 post, would sure be more reliable than a person that racked up the same ammount or more than just one or two post. Not sure how you guys missed that point before.

Quantification of reliability, is difficult, at best.

50 people simultaneously appreciating your single post, is a pretty good measure of your reliability.

Next, we'll be needing the posted advice to be 'sufficiently different', to qualify for a thank you.

If everyone can say thank you it devalues it. This should be something that distinguishes good helpers from others. If everyone is getting lots of thank yous then the system isn't doing what it should. Helpful and Solved being used, and only for the thread starter is the better option IMO.

I say we all just wait for them to finish coding up the new system, then we can judge it.

I hear your comment SNGX. The only problem I see with that system in particular is that it's much better suited to a forum strictly related to tech support.

With all the incoming comments I'm also beginning to think the Thank You system won't be worth the time and perhaps we are just good the way things are right now (BTW, I think it's obvious the thank you system has not been implemented just yet).

I don't know, there seems to be quite a few people going around with bad advice. Instead of a thank you system, a "warning" system can be in place, where only Ops/mods can administer these points...

But I think thats not a good idea, even though I came up with it.

I don't know, there seems to be quite a few people going around with bad advice. Instead of a thank you system, a "warning" system can be in place, where only Ops/mods can administer these points...

But I think thats not a good idea, even though I came up with it.

i feel out my chair laughing. I know I've given some misinformed advise before, a few times.

Problem is that misinformed advice is NOT a good thing to be dishing out. People may not know the difference between good advice and bad, and if nobody corrects you.... Well, they're stuffed.

If you don't know something for sure, say that you don't know for sure. If you have no idea on the topic at all, then you shouldn't be helping.

I'm not referring only to you, there has been a few instances where totally wrong advice was given, by a number of people.

This should be something that distinguishes good helpers from others.

Problem is that misinformed advice is NOT a good thing to be dishing out. People may not know the difference between good advice and bad, and if nobody corrects you.... Well, they're stuffed.

There does need to be some indicator of reliability. Can Karma be reintroduced, with some care to reduce misuse ?

Karma is definitely not coming back... in the other hand a Thank you system might. I just haven't had time to pay attention to that after the karma system did not work at all for us.