4 Gig Ram Only Showing As 2.93

[kluken]

Dear Kluken; If you're running out of RAM in Photoshop with 13MB files (even layered) up to 100MB, you're not managing your system the way you need to. (This with the 2GB I understand you to have. You can set preferences in Photoshop to allocate whatever percentage of RAM you choose, with 50% usually considered optimal. You could have too many processes running along with Photoshop. I'm told that the "bridge" in Photoshop is memory sponge. I run PSE-5 and the organizer, especially after using the slide show full frame function is a memory hog. Another massive use of RAM in Photoshop is the number of history states you allow yourself to luxuriate with. You need to pull up the Windows Task Manager <CNTL, ALT, DEL> and find out which processes are sapping your powers. I grant you that Photoshop needs a bunch of RAM, so you can't use it with 3 or 4 other applications open, and 55 processes running!

I have PS set up to retain a lot of history and I also have usually greater than 1.5 GB free when I launchc PS. Sure PS and Bridge are hogs, the point is if I want 3GB I should nto have to change my workflow if I know 3GB will give me the headroom I need. In the age of RAM hogging apps the system should not allocate so much to PCI, what do they need bascially a GB of RAM t map PCI devices. Everyone got sloppy with devleopment becasue they thought 4GB of address space was SO MUCH so that no one will ever need that much space. Funny my older P5WD Premium ASUS board with 830D CPU saw 3GB of space with 4GB installed, yet my P5B will only see 2GB, the MB BIOS sees 4GB and I am remapping the PCI above 4GB. I have tried the /3GB switch and also /execute=alwaysoff, and /NOPAE, still only sees 2GB.

 

[captaincranky]

And I Agree with you.....

I think the 3GB switch only allows Windows to allocate more than 2GB to any one application. So yeah, if it's not there it can't be transfered. 2.8GB or so recognized in Windows is normal for a 32 bit board. But, you must understand that excessive use of memory for hardware addresses is partly due to clamor for more expansion headroom by customers. I don't know your work habits in Photoshop so I probably shouldn't comment further. I understand your frustration but, from your description the situation is written in stone, so I can only sympathize. The newer chipsets Intel's DG965 series in particular has what they call EMT, or what amounts to a 64 bit enabled BIOS. In just built one and installed Windows MCE 2005 (a 32 bit OS) and the machine shows all of the 3GB of RAM I have Installed. Caveat; I only have a graphics card and a joystick attached to the machine. It may be possible for a 32 bit OS to recognize all of the installed RAM (up to the 4GB limit anyway)with these new boards, but I chickened out at 3GB rather than be disappointed. I do have to note that your quarrel seems to be with Asus, and I fear that don't have any other answers for you other than the ones you're already aware of.

 

[kluken]

captincranky,

I essentially asked RUDEBWOY how his system was configured. I have the same hardware he has and my Windows XP Pro only sees 2GB I understand the limitations and such and my old ASUS board with 4GB showed 3GB in Windows, so it is odd that for some reason my P5B shows only 2GB yet RUDEBWOY's P5B shows 3GB, I tried chanegd some BIOs settings, with no change, thus I asked him what he was set for so I can see if I missed something in the BIOS. My older ASU board also had EMT support as it was a 955X chipset.

 

[captaincranky]

Depends on what you are doing, I routinely work in Photoshop with 13MP images and once you get a few layers going all the memory in my 2GB is gone and it swaps to disk like crazy.

First, can you see my confusion here? We may be doing different math. What would be the base size of this image in megabytes. I'm thinking 39 MB, is this correct? If so, even an image with ten standard layers, (not adjustment layers which would be less memory), would be 400MB, still well within the ability of 2GB of available RAM. This brings me to my second question is the 2GB available RAM or total detected by Windows?

Unless the BIOS has a provision for redistributing or reassigning hardware addresses (which does seem unlikely), then obviously you should be at or near the same figure Rudebwoy gets. He doesn't actually have a complaint since the topic of "why do I only see 3 GB of RAM when I have 4GB installed" has been covered many, many times.

Could something have goofed up during the command line switches?

 

[Goalie]

With apologies to SNGX1275:

 

[Goalie]

Newer info

from irc:

[03:04:16] Diablo: didn't know about that address space issue, cool info, good to know now with Vista out, probably many 4gb issue threads will pop up
[03:06:02] Goalie: although I haven't responded yet, I have a 64 bit processor (core2 duo), and in either 32 or 64 bit modes, the lockup behavior is the same for me. As my last post says, though, the thread is already far enough off topic....
[03:06:57] Diablo: might very well be an issue with RAM timings...
[03:07:17] Goalie: I imagine it is
[03:07:30] Goalie: I know my software side of things, but hardware wise, I'm worse than a n00b
[03:08:16] Goalie: my bios lets me hit direct timings, but doesn't give me an easy way to just slow down the mhz at which the ram is running
[03:09:00] Diablo: can you provide a picture of all the RAM timing settings the BIOS has?
[03:09:51] Diablo: http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/11564/bios_memory.jpg
[03:10:35] Diablo: ahh, is this it?
[03:10:35] Diablo: http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/asus_p5n32_sli_premium/page_4.shtml
[03:13:11] Goalie: I'm not at the computer, but yes, that appears quite like it
[03:13:23] Goalie: same model according to the url

From that point... I went to bed But generous souls promised to investigate.

 

[Mictlantecuhtli]

o rly?

Everybody (myself included), blames 32 bit Windows for not showing the full 4GB of RAM. It's actually not Windows, it's the 32 bit motherboards. They also can only see 4 GB of RAM total, but it's actually the board subtracting the hardware addresses, not the OS.

And how do you know which mainboard is 32-bit and which 64-bit?

cat /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:      4045012 kB
MemFree:         45704 kB
Buffers:         95272 kB
Cached:        3286408 kB
...
Mapped:         116848 kB
...
CommitLimit:   4070780 kB

As you can see, this mainboard + OS combination has no problems using nearly all of the 4 GB. The manufacturer says the maximum installable memory is 4 GB, so would you say this is a "32-bit mainboard" ?

I would say having 4 GB of usable memory depends on both the mainboard (or just BIOS settings) and the operating system.

Goalie, as far as I know, when you select manual ("Expert") configuration of the memory settings in Asus BIOS, it should show the current settings (the ones chosen in "Optimal" mode). Then you could change them slower (ie. increase the values).

 

[captaincranky]

I haven't tried this but...

If a mainboard only has 4GB of memory addresses then it's only using 32 bits to describe it. Whether or not you could put a 64 bit processor it would only be speculation on my part.

Intel states with any of it's processors that have "EMT" must be used in conjunction with a 64 bit enabled board, whether you're using a 32 bit OS or not. I have a Intel 915GAG which beyond a doubt is 32 bit. The memory map I uploaded refers plainly to "the top of memory visible to the OS".

I have also an Intel DG965WH board, it is absolutely a 64 bit BIOS. I tried to install Suse 10.0, and I got a message sorta like this, dude you're trying to put a 32 bit OS into a 64 bit computer.

I suppose you have to hand to to MS (god I hate to say that), but XP MCE 2005 installed without mention of it.

The board has 8GB of memory addresses. Now whether Intel has provided a firmware overlay to allow a 32 bit OS to use the whole amount I do not know. I saw it presented as possible in a couple of MS tech forums. But as I said earlier I chickened out and installed only 3 GB of RAM in the board. But, it did recognize ALL 3 GB! Intel goes a step further and states the 8GB is only available at 667 MHz not the 800MHZ RAM, which will only net you 4GB of capacity.

Whether the 8 GB limit is there because they only decided to put 4 sockets in again is speculation on my part. Keep in mind you could describe an 8 GB space with only 33 bits! The last place (33rd bit) would be either 1, 4GB or 0, 0GB.

I saw a board advertised as being able to support 32 GB of RAM! But, it only had 4 sockets. I guess that the ad guys are expecting 8 GB RAM DIMMs along any day now. Or not.

 

[captaincranky]

Here comes the chicken, egg first.....

[/code}
I would say having 4 GB of usable memory depends on both the mainboard (or just BIOS settings) and the operating system.

And I agree, the OS has to keep track of the hardware the same as the board does and it would subtract those addresses from available RAM. My only point is that if someone actually stepped up and put a 64 bit OS in one of these 32 bit boards, the board still would likely be subtracting the hardware addresses and disappointment might still prevail.

I should add that my belief system on this issue (and others) is not cast in stone.

 

[RUDEBWOY]

hey man sorry about that did not notice this thread got big..ok well my bios i left it as it was and mines shows 3 gigs in the bios and 2.93 when i go to control panel in windows.there is also a option in bios to disable some pci sharing i for got the exact option of it this will show your bios of 4 gig of ram but when i did this it made my control panel come up as 2 gig ram so i enabled it back.

 

[captaincranky]

Eureka.........!

You may have solved your problem, solved Kluken's problem, and verified the correctness of Intel's customer proofing approach to BIOS all in one fell swoop.

I am astounded that some manufacturers let you reassign hardware addresses in BIOS. Perhaps I should get out more, so to speak.

 

[RUDEBWOY]

so i guess i did huh =).so i guess the only option is to get 64 bit os which i would get if they had xp media center 64 bit but they dont =(

 

[captaincranky]

Oh No, Not Vista......

Vista Home Premium contains the media center functions without mentioning them to any great degree. It's also available in a 64 bit rip off, err, I mean edition. Please allow me to be the first to welcome you to Bill's nightmare.

Don't worry, the drivers will be all over the place, probably sooner than anybody thinks. Or not.

 

[MTL_TECH]

OK SO I AM NEW TO TECH SPOT

I am FROM MONTREAL CANADA EH...

ok so I called EVGA they make the main board that I am using , one dude

there they told me that yes as long as I use 800 MGH MEM it wont mess anything

up. so I said ok I had 2 gigs of Corsair Dominator , really good stuff so I

ordered 2 more gigs of MEM , i installed it i had a POST problem . C1 it ment

that I needed to go into the CMOS and change on of the default power

controls. i needed to pump it up to 2.10000 from 1.89000 . MEM just needed

more power , so that was all good . my Bios when it does its post when my

system restarts up it reads the 4096 gigs of MEM . I’m like sick power house

pc , naw nothing in the computer world works like that so when i go to my

windows general tab it only shows 3.gig's now i do see much of a increases in

speed fast but.. not what i paid for. SO BrannyB calls up Microsoft 2X one

time it was some ***** ..oh can I say that here ok well any way she told me

because I bought an OEM copy of XP there was nothing she could do . call

up the company that sold it to me well they don’t have support. so i wait 2

hours call back and speak to a nice guy @ Microsoft he tells me that

windows should see any thing that I put in , now I had done a ill bit of reading

on this issues and i know the 32-bit and 64-bit problem so i want to hear

what he is going to say to me . he tells me GO AND CHECK OUT WHAT

WINDOWNS HAS TO SAY WHEN YOU GO INTO Programs accessories click on

system tools and check out system info . so I was half impressed when I say

it say 4096 gigs of ram . but once again its not showing on the general tab ,

but it does show up in the BIOS POST, and it does show up in system info,

but not the general table

to make this short i have 2 question

ONE: am i breaking anything of messing with my dual channel ram

TWO: any one know how to fix this or is the only option to go up to win xp

pro 64 bit ?

NOTE CHECK OUT www.dansdata.com (4 gigs showing as 3 gigs he has somthing to say )

BrannyB

hey i have a new ATHOLN64 fx62 2.8 , with a new EVGA 590 SLI mother board SOCKET AM2 with 4 gigs , its POST on a 32 bit OS 4096 in trhe bios and when in windows it shows up as 3.00 gighs so i blame windows . not a new mother baord. (did youk now that somethime the prolem is that if you have a high end grapics card and it has like 640 memgs of ram it subtracs that from your DMA so you have less ram running because of the siex of the on board ram. (Y)

Mictlantecuhtli
TS Special Forces

any time that you have a problem that is intermitent it is caussed from crummy power supply that is on its last leg , or you just have a bad batch of MEM, i bet you that if you baught a new 1 gig stick your problem would go away , and i wouldnt matter if your mem is all the same speed , like 400 mgh's and you add like pc6400 which is 800 megh's then you are running stuff out of synic so yeah you might have a problem good like

and happy hunting

 

[kpo6969]

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/graphicsmemory.mspx

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940105

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3034

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3044

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=3060

 

[Phenique]

Windows XP 32 bit only will detect 3 GBs of ram, even with a BIOS update.
Windows XP 64 Bit SP2 will detect I belie 4
Windows XP 64 Pro will detect up to 4 GBs of RAM
Windows Vista 32 bit will detect a total of 4 GB
Windows Vista 64 bit will detect a whopping 128 GB

I've researched this when I plan to move to vista. 64 bit strings run though your RAM,(if you are using a 64-bit OS) so if you have one stick it's 64 bit RAM, meaning it will use up more ram when it runs though. If you are dual channeling you will get 128-bit which will twice as much to pass through, which is why it is called dual channeling. With Vista's intense needs, it's no wonder they allow 64-bit to take advantage of 128 GB of RAM

 

[Jase123]

have you got a graphics card in.... because i have 2 gig in my computer and when i use onboard it only reads 1.93gb but when my ati graphics card is in it reads the full 2 gig

 

[captaincranky]

Bios.......?

I believe BIOS reserves some address space that is subtracted from that offered to Windows. It also makes sense if the onboard graphics is a maximum of 64 MB.

 

[SNGX1275]

Windows XP 32 bit only will detect 3 GBs of ram, even with a BIOS update.
Windows XP 64 Bit SP2 will detect I belie 4
Windows XP 64 Pro will detect up to 4 GBs of RAM
Windows Vista 32 bit will detect a total of 4 GB
Windows Vista 64 bit will detect a whopping 128 GB

Got a link? I'm pretty sure, well very sure, that XP 64 will detect more than 4 gigs of RAM.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition

Windows XP x64 is currently limited to 128 GB of physical memory and 16 TB of virtual memory. Microsoft claims this limit will be increased as hardware capabilities improve. In practice, most motherboards compatible with 64-bit processors do not support anywhere close to the maximum limit, and often retain the 4 GB limit, though motherboards capable of 8GB are becoming more common.

 

[Phenique]

Got a link? I'm pretty sure, well very sure, that XP 64 will detect more than 4 gigs of RAM.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition

Well slap me silly X3

 

[captaincranky]

Here a Bit, There a Bit, Every where a Bit, Bit.....

I think that's from "Old Macdonald's Computer Farm"...Joking!

I have no idea how much memory 64 Bit XP will actually acknowledge, but the number that can be described by 64 places of information in binary math is 1 terrabyte.

The reason a 32 bit OS has a limit of 4 GB is that 32 places in binary math equals 4 GB. Using 33 Bits (or places) in binary numbers, Intel's EMT reaches 8 GB. (2 X 4 GB = 8 GB), the next place, right? Or to be a corny, just one little, itty bitty more.

 

[joeblow58]

mobo/xp doesn't recognise 4gb memory

Added another 2gb of memory to the existing 2gb only to discover xp shows it as 3.25. bios repors 4gb installed, but only 3.3 available. checked out asus support for bios update but discovered there is no update. the problem is 32bit xp wont recognise all the memory due to the way the addresses are allocated, the reason for peple having different reported memory sizes is because xp takes into account any installed hardware and deducts the memory reqirement for that device from your total, eg 2 sli g/cards and acouple of pci cards could reduce the reort to under 3gb. the link below takes you to asus with possible solutions,
http://support.asus.com/faq/faq.aspx?SLanguage=en-us