Advertising watchdog tells Star Citizen to clarify that the concept ships it sells aren't...

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Burty117

Posts: 4,235   +2,284
"without really any reason" - it's pretty evident to everybody except those that put a ton of money into the game that it is a scam just meant to milk people as much as they can.

"Last Chance to Grab the Gatac Railen!" - this sounds like one of those cheap f2p mobile games full of useless mtx.

"Buy something that doesn't exist and you don't know if it will ever exist (we, SC staff, assure you that even we don't know if we will make it or not, but we'll still sell it to you)".
As I was saying...

Have you given a free fly event a try yet?
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 71   +56
So, are you trying to claim all the bad press Star Citizen receives is completely unfounded?

And just what exactly is, "when done? When you hit the billion dollar pledge level? When Chris Roberts has a car collection equal to, or better than, Jay Leno's?

I'll tell you when I'll consider it "done", when I can log into Newegg and download it for $29.95. Nome of this alpha nonsense and buying imaginary spaceships for me.
Never said rules don't apply to everyone. That is fascinating how words can be twisted to something else :)
The difference is that it is not bad press. We are talking about company providing pretty clear disclaimer since day one and one (out of a million) backer that got a Gov entity from one country to request a cosmetic change to already available disclaimer.

Absolutely nothing to write home about and certainly not to pretend CIG is in trouble, like many click-bait site are doing with big bold title. At worst... that will bring more new backers knowing about how to differentiate bad press from ambitious games :)
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 71   +56
Frankly, I think somebody should take X-Plane 11, or a good combat flight simulator, re-skin it as outer space, and be done with it

All you have to do, (I know that's easier said than done), is program thrusters to act in place of aerial flight controls. You know, Yaw, Pitch, and Roll. Face it, flying in an atmosphere is the same three dimensions as flying in space..
X-plane 11 game engine is totally unable to handle current SC Alpha. At best you can change planes skin for the smallest SC ship skin.
Everything else, features, gameplay, planets/moon assets, pipelines creation, network will have to be coded from scratch... and that take apparently many years for hundreds devs... so no it is not as simple as that.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
To soil the project?! Robert should be arrested for fraud.
If that were legally possible, I am sure that it would have happened already. With all the attention that Roberts and the games get, I am sure that it is on the radar of some DA somewhere, and yet, no charges have appeared.

Gee, I wonder why? :rolleyes:

With that kind of attitude, every kickstarter project or other similarly funded project that clearly has disclaimers that you might never get anything for your donation and has failed should also face similar arrest. Right?

Heck, with Roberts and the SC/SQ-42 games as they are, its a wonder some gold-digging lawyer has not already stepped in to file an equivalent lawsuit - at least, as viewed from a perspective similar to yours. That, in case everyone is not aware, has not happened either.

Maybe if all the naysayers stand in front of Merrick Garland and chant "Arrest Chris Roberts" he might actually listen. 🤣
 
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Ludak021

Posts: 549   +397
That's not what I meant, He amassed millions of dollars selling, what exactly? Not one finished product. He never delivered on time, he always under-delivered and so on.
Personally, I don't care. Sheep are for sheering.

edit: Dude that was selling 100% environment friendly, safe and 100% efficient insect killer for only (I forgot what it was exactly) $5 WAS eventually tried and convicted for fraud because he was selling two wooden planks that you would use to smash insects.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
X-plane 11 game engine is totally unable to handle current SC Alpha. At best you can change planes skin for the smallest SC ship skin.
Everything else, features, gameplay, planets/moon assets, pipelines creation, network will have to be coded from scratch... and that take apparently many years for hundreds devs... so no it is not as simple as that.
Maybe that's because people haven''t handed X-Planes creators 350 million dollars to develop it, as they have to Mr.Roberts...

Something else that's gospel is that every time you show up, is that you'll label every story about Star Citizen, "click bait". It does get tedious after a while.

Oh well, maybe he'll get there someday

1631286328527.jpeg
 
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JoeBlobers

Posts: 71   +56
Maybe that's because people haven''t handed X-Planes creators 350 million dollars to develop it, as they have to Mr.Roberts...

Something else that's gospel is that every time you show up, is that you'll label every story about Star Citizen, "click bait". It does get tedious after a while.

Oh well, maybe he'll get there someday

View attachment 87937
No I don't label every SC article Click-bait, only the ones deserving it... like this current "drama", a storm in a teacup.
You got the most important point: making X-planes 11 with all SC features, pipelines, gameplay will require +350M$ :)
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
If someone asked me to hand over money for a game that may or may not ever be completed, I'd laugh at them. After 11 years, this is really starting to look like a scam job.
Some claim that jumping from project to project without ever completing one is a function of astrological destiny. (Saggitarius, IIRC).
However, various chemical stimulants will produce the same symptoms. Adderal, methamphetamine, cocaine, to name just a few. So, one has to ask the question, "can going off on mental tangents be construed as 'creativity' or confused with simple over stimulation of the cerebral cortex"?
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 71   +56
If that were legally possible, I am sure that it would have happened already. With all the attention that Roberts and the games get, I am sure that it is on the radar of some DA somewhere, and yet, no charges have appeared.

Gee, I wonder why? :rolleyes:

With that kind of attitude, every kickstarter project or other similarly funded project that clearly has disclaimers that you might never get anything for your donation and has failed should also face similar arrest. Right?

Heck, with Roberts and the SC/SQ-42 games as they are, its a wonder some gold-digging lawyer has not already stepped in to file an equivalent lawsuit - at least, as viewed from a perspective similar to yours. That, in case everyone is not aware, has not happened either.

Maybe if all the naysayers stand in front of Merrick Garland and chant "Arrest Chris Roberts" he might actually listen. 🤣
The few guys fool enough to go to Court have been denied any refunding, including because TOS was updated several times.
And the single company that tried (Crytek) have been denied any of their financial claim, they super known attorney even left them (lol) after a year or so... at the end CIG got full right on Cry Engine (like Amazon Lumberyard Cry engine fork) and are now able to use it without restriction and no extra fees...

But because internet is free to speech, anyone can say anything without risking much as CIG won't sue them for saying scam!!
There are doing better, indeed the single option to shut them up: working hard to deliver first SQ42 then all remaining SC gameplay.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
No I don't label every SC article Click-bait, only the ones deserving it... like this current "drama", a storm in a teacup.
You got the most important point: making X-planes 11 with all SC features, pipelines, gameplay will require +350M$ :)
Look, more than half my time here, I spend listening to people whining about the price and availability of graphics cards. To someone who isn't involved with gaming, the symptoms present as a severe addiction, almost to the extent of physical dependence.

I do think that asking people to pay for things that don't, or may never exist is a bit heavy handed..

With that said, I haven't heard of a street dealer being sued for selling smack, although pharmaceutical companies certainly have been.

I do think that Mr. Roberts is very adept at taking the boundaries of his tactics to the outer edge of legality, yet still manages to, "color inside the lines".

There is a backstory at work. I wonder if Roberts has any idea what he will do for an encore. More simply, if Star Citizen does finally get finished, will the company fold? It's a question worth asking. That would give powerful motivation to keep the train on the same track, in a manner of speaking.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
With that kind of attitude, every kickstarter project or other similarly funded project that clearly has disclaimers that you might never get anything for your donation and has failed should also face similar arrest. Right?
Well, only if you could prove intent to defraud beforehand. Which would be rather difficult to do. It becomes a question of state of mind. Did they know it was a sh!t idea that would never be profitable beforehand, and take money for it anyway?

The only way you could 'prove it', would be if the project were a group of individuals, and you could get one, 'to roll over' on the others. You know, like a TV cop show
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
Well, only if you could prove intent to defraud beforehand. Which would be rather difficult to do. It becomes a question of state of mind. Did they know it was a sh!t idea that would never be profitable beforehand, and take money for it anyway?

The only way you could 'prove it', would be if the project were a group of individuals, and you could get one, 'to roll over' on the others. You know, like a TV cop show
It seems unlikely that they will get anyone to roll over at this point.

And there is a difference between a sh!t idea and one that is technically complex. After they met their original funding goal, they added goals that came along with the increased funding. However, they eventually stopped adding those goals and have been actively engaged in working on delivering what they have promised over the years. Yes, yes, I know all the jokes about how it will never be delivered. Jokes aside, there is a significant amount that is playable already.

Get in on a Free-fly week sometime and try it out for your self or not.
Or have a look at the recorded gameplay that is available on You Tube.
Such as
Or this "objective one"
Or this "team" one
Obviously, some people out there are actually enjoying the experience.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,957   +3,830
TechSpot Elite
Only people who don't know the definition of "scam" call it a scam. Plenty of other ways to criticize the development, but don't jump on that childish bandwagon...
Promising something you can't deliver and asking for more money fits the definition of a scam.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,800   +2,155
TechSpot Elite
Some claim that jumping from project to project without ever completing one is a function of astrological destiny. (Saggitarius, IIRC).
However, various chemical stimulants will produce the same symptoms. Adderal, methamphetamine, cocaine, to name just a few. So, one has to ask the question, "can going off on mental tangents be construed as 'creativity' or confused with simple over stimulation of the cerebral cortex"?
It's funny you say that because I have very strong ADD and I take Adderall daily (I have for decades). It actually prevents me from being all over the place and allows me to remain focused. Perhaps it does the opposite for someone who doesn't have ADD in which case, I'd say, yeah, you could be right! :D

As for the others, I don't know what they do because, as a good Canadian who doesn't drink alcohol, the only other recreational drug that I know all the effects of is THC. :laughing:
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
The few guys fool enough to go to Court have been denied any refunding, including because TOS was updated several times.
And the single company that tried (Crytek) have been denied any of their financial claim, they super known attorney even left them (lol) after a year or so... at the end CIG got full right on Cry Engine (like Amazon Lumberyard Cry engine fork) and are now able to use it without restriction and no extra fees...

But because internet is free to speech, anyone can say anything without risking much as CIG won't sue them for saying scam!!
There are doing better, indeed the single option to shut them up: working hard to deliver first SQ42 then all remaining SC gameplay.
I bet the loudest voices have no clue of what is already available. Yep, free speech alright! 🤡
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
That's not what I meant, He amassed millions of dollars selling, what exactly? Not one finished product. He never delivered on time, he always under-delivered and so on.
Personally, I don't care. Sheep are for sheering.

edit: Dude that was selling 100% environment friendly, safe and 100% efficient insect killer for only (I forgot what it was exactly) $5 WAS eventually tried and convicted for fraud because he was selling two wooden planks that you would use to smash insects.
I really don't see that the comparison is apt.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
It seems unlikely that they will get anyone to roll over at this point.
As hard as it may be to believe, I was off topic and generalizing about Kickstarter project ideas, being proffered "with,malice aforethought"...

I do understand where you could be mislead, since I always adhere strictly to the topic at hand. In fact, I hum, "Onward Techspot Soldiers", while I type.

(Next time, I'm going to try and come up with something to the tune of, "Jerusalem"). .
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
As hard as it may be to believe, I was off topic and generalizing about Kickstarter project ideas, being proffered "with,malice aforethought"...

I do understand where you could be mislead, since I always adhere strictly to the topic at hand. In fact, I hum, "Onward Techspot Soldiers", while I type.

(Next time, I'm going to try and come up with something to the tune of, "Jerusalem"). .
No worries, Captain. FWIW - I hardly think that either you or I always stay strictly on topic. :laughing: Then again, humming "Onward Techspot Soldiers" would be no fun if we did. ;)

Yes. I have some money invested in the game, and I am one of the few, probably, that has money invested in the game and has played almost nothing of the game. So, all I have to say is Baaa. 🤣

I know there is a lot there, but having the time to spend exploring what is there is something that I will enjoy in the future. What is available looks quite impressive, and CIG keeps sending me progress reports.

PS - Feel free to question my sanity if it makes you feel better. ;)
PPS - those videos that I linked are only a small sampling of the many, many SC gameplay videos on You Tube. It cannot be all :poop:
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
PS - Feel free to question my sanity if it makes you feel better. ;)
PPS - those videos that I linked are only a small sampling of the many, many SC gameplay videos on You Tube. It cannot be all :poop:
I'd be acting out of character if I didn't question your sanity..

With that out of the way. I compare Star Citizen to other flight simulators. Granted there are subsections with other purposes. (Start a dilithium mine etc, yadda, yadda, yadda).

My principal objection is the Roberts appears to have made made himself asymmetrically wealthy when compared to the game's actual progress.

That said, even M$ doesn't do sh!t like this. If they release a flight simulator, is usable after it's loaded.

Apparently, (although many complaints would lead you to believe otherwise), nobody with such a game is altogether averse to "in game purchases". So, if I could buy and downloaded a complete and functional copy of the game, I wouldn't have a problem purchasing add-ons, or Roberts continual di*king around selling things that may not ever exist. I would simply ignore them until I wanted them.

Now if you say, "we won't have a completed version of the game until I write a mining simulation for 'Herculon' add-on", that's where it gets a bit tricky.

IMHO, Roberts expects this one offering to be completed in time for his retirement. It's starting to look like his entire career.

I don't even have a problem with that, since others have done likewise. Take Queen as an example. They wrote, "Night at the Opera", got aids and died.. (OK, that's a stretch), But it is the only album I remember by them. And, "We are the Champions", is incredibly annoying."The champions of what", I often question to myself while refusing to sing along,,distributing STDs? But I digress. :rolleyes:
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 6,537   +4,932
I'd be acting out of character if I didn't question your sanity..
No Comment!:cold_sweat:
With that out of the way. I compare Star Citizen to other flight simulators. Granted there are subsections with other purposes. (Start a dilithium mine etc, yadda, yadda, yadda).

My principal objection is the Roberts appears to have made made himself asymmetrically wealthy when compared to the game's actual progress.
That is easily said if everyone thinks the worst. It would be out of character for you, Captain, (no offense) to not think the worst. However, a search reveals that Roberts' net worth is estimated at somewhere between $100K and $1M https://www.celebsmoney.com/net-worth/chris-roberts/ Assuming, of course, that that web site is not Fake News. But, there is another web site that comes to a similar conclusion https://www.networthstatus.com/game-designer/chris-roberts-net-worth-earnings/
Maybe Roberts is not the real-life equivalent of Darth Vader that people make him out to be, and who knows, those sites which supposedly detail his car collection and other supposed assets - who's to say that they are not just Fake News.
That said, even M$ doesn't do sh!t like this. If they release a flight simulator, is usable after it's loaded.
Well, in contrast, I got to thinking (look out ;)) in my profession as a software engineer - that IF (notice I give you the capitalized version of IF) the game ever comes out, it will be one of the most tested games, if not the most tested game ever. Not even our second most favorite company to hate (M$) has the kind of testing force that CIG does for SC/SQ-42. All people who have pledged get that alpha access and are able to run the game and report bugs. There are literally, what 3-million testers for the game? I even reported one that I know has been fixed. (You used to be able to continue walking into closed elevator doors in one of the hangars and you would all of a sudden be out in the vacuum of space. ☠️:scream:)

That is not to say that there will not be any bugs - as I think writing bug-free software is pretty close to impossible - but to say that for a pledge, people get access to the alpha version and there is a means to report bugs which tend to get addressed.

IMO, though, it would be impossible to develop a game of this scope and complexity without that kind of massive testing and not expect it to go out the door as a literal piece of :poop: such as when "No Man's Sky" went out the door.

So, if it ever does come out and you can go to Newegg and download it for $60 or whatever, IMO, it can be reasonably assured that it will be as bug-free as possible. IMO, developing it this way was a brilliant move, and many of those people who have pledged are getting the chance to enjoy their money - even if they do find the occasional 🐛
Apparently, (although many complaints would lead you to believe otherwise), nobody with such a game is altogether averse to "in game purchases". So, if I could buy and downloaded a complete and functional copy of the game, I wouldn't have a problem purchasing add-ons, or Roberts continual di*king around selling things that may not ever exist. I would simply ignore them until I wanted them.

Now if you say, "we won't have a completed version of the game until I write a mining simulation for 'Herculon' add-on", that's where it gets a bit tricky.

IMHO, Roberts expects this one offering to be completed in time for his retirement. It's starting to look like his entire career.
Some software engineers do only work on one project for their entire life.
I don't even have a problem with that, since others have done likewise. Take Queen as an example. They wrote, "Night at the Opera", got aids and died.. (OK, that's a stretch), But it is the only album I remember by them. And, "We are the Champions", is incredibly annoying."The champions of what", I often question to myself while refusing to sing along,,distributing STDs? But I digress. :rolleyes:
Did not Queen say in the song? Champions of the World? Even if that was hubris. :laughing:
 

m4a4

Posts: 2,547   +3,038
TechSpot Elite
Promising something you can't deliver and asking for more money fits the definition of a scam.
As said, they have already delivered stuff.
So unless you can prove they have no intention to deliver the game after all these years, paying hundreds (if not thousands) of people to work on what they have been delivering, then you're using the wrong term.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,395   +6,137
@wiyosaya @ This article paints an entirely different picture of Mr. Roberts:


But then again, is a rag like that to be believed? :Not to mention the label "disgruntled employees", would undoubtedly be bandied about.

Aldous Huxley rang in on this more than 80 years ago in Brave New World, "we tried a society of all Alphas, but the constant bickering and warring forced us to call in the army to break it up". Or, in more colloquial terms, "too many cooks spoil the broth"..

Ma hood dun got shot up twice this week. It would be interesting for you to try and judge this crew by superimposing your own intellectual, moral, and value standards, (as you're so prone to do), on these people, and then assume, "you've got them pegged".

As to the question of my own sanity, I wouldn't be offended in the least by someone addressing me with the salutation, "you're a misanthrope, a sociopath, and a cat person".

As far as an engineer working on one piece of software through their entire career, I would think that that might be true in something involving a piece of advanced physics, surveillance, AI, or industrial control system software, but the gaming community's attention span is far to short, and far too fickle, to guarantee continued single title success in that community. Give it a couple of years, and every player will know absolutely, positively, what should have been written, instead of what was.

As for, "We are the Champions", it's the most cleverly constructed veil / excuse for allowing every individual in a huge crowd to vent the full force of their ego, without risk of censure ever written.Yet still, (IMO), it's a piece of sh!t, worthy of a "Golden,Mutie Award".

I'd probably opt for German martial music, before I embraced that nonsense. At least that has an actual purpose..

BTW, apparently Windows 7 is no longer supported in Star Citizen. Maybe you can dismiss my skepticism as, "sour grapes".

That being said, the hardware requirements for M$ new flight simulator are way, way, over the top, as are those of X-Plane 11. X-Plane 10 is "where I get off". Maybe I should buy a copy of that while I still can. Unfortunately I'm far too cheap, (and broke) to spring for a yoke and rudder pedals. 🤷

In other news, I have a largely black, spayed, female cat, who enjoys having her backside scratched with an unholy abundance. I'm thinking if I scored some peyote, and recited a few ancient incantations, she might morph into a 19 year human female named, "Sabrina". ;)🤣
 
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JoeBlobers

Posts: 71   +56
Look, more than half my time here, I spend listening to people whining about the price and availability of graphics cards. To someone who isn't involved with gaming, the symptoms present as a severe addiction, almost to the extent of physical dependence.

I do think that asking people to pay for things that don't, or may never exist is a bit heavy handed..

With that said, I haven't heard of a street dealer being sued for selling smack, although pharmaceutical companies certainly have been.

I do think that Mr. Roberts is very adept at taking the boundaries of his tactics to the outer edge of legality, yet still manages to, "color inside the lines".

There is a backstory at work. I wonder if Roberts has any idea what he will do for an encore. More simply, if Star Citizen does finally get finished, will the company fold? It's a question worth asking. That would give powerful motivation to keep the train on the same track, in a manner of speaking.
What you dislike is called kickstarter model: pledge to get later the final product. Thousands of project have been done successfully through this model and many do support the project nobody else care to make. The simple answer is: don't pledge until the project reach yours expectation, specifics gameplay, stability and why not, full release :)

Ad for every project you have to choose them wisely.
Some guys back in 2015 explained it won't pass next quarters. 6 years later, the number of backers grow to a million and counting, they have enough cash to finish both project even if it take 2 more years to get SQ42 out (pledges + private investors).

So the question of asking "what if... " is purely rhetorical.
 
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