Advertising watchdog tells Star Citizen to clarify that the concept ships it sells aren't...

Burty117

Posts: 4,193   +2,212
Promising something you can't deliver and asking for more money fits the definition of a scam.
Do I need to grab a doll and you can point where Chris Roberts hurt you?

Legit, they do free fly events, you get to try out the current Alpha build and try out many of the ships, for free. And see the progress that's been made.

When you say "asking for more money" you mean allowing people to pledge for ships? Not once have I been told by CIG "Hand over more cash or we won't let you play" or anything.

I'll never understand people like you, even when all the evidence is against you and you are freely allowed to play the game yourself to decide your own opinion, you just refuse any kind of logic and just double down on "Scam!" "Fraud!", Pretty sad to be honest.
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 66   +50
@wiyosaya @ This article paints an entirely different picture of Mr. Roberts:



... BTW, apparently Windows 7 is no longer supported in Star Citizen. Maybe you can dismiss my skepticism as, "sour grapes".

Star Citizen will run on PC system with 64 bit version Window (Windows 7 service pack 1 (64 bit) or higher) and upwards...
As per Steam August 2021 players config, 86.64% do use windows 10 while 0.23% don't use Windows 7 or Windows 8 (64 bit)
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,858   +3,745
TechSpot Elite
Do I need to grab a doll and you can point where Chris Roberts hurt you?

Legit, they do free fly events, you get to try out the current Alpha build and try out many of the ships, for free. And see the progress that's been made.

When you say "asking for more money" you mean allowing people to pledge for ships? Not once have I been told by CIG "Hand over more cash or we won't let you play" or anything.

I'll never understand people like you, even when all the evidence is against you and you are freely allowed to play the game yourself to decide your own opinion, you just refuse any kind of logic and just double down on "Scam!" "Fraud!", Pretty sad to be honest.
The evidence stands with me. It's that simple. All you have are a bunch of tech demos that are loosely connected by a bunch of microtransactions that keep the devs fed.

The "game" is decade off from anything that can be released even as a beta.

This "game" is a disaster of epic proportions from a management standpoint, a direction standpoint and from a financial standpoint. A scam through and through.

If they release a "beta" in the next 5 years (which they won't, at best it will be an alpha build), it will be more broken than what fallout 76, cyberpunk and skyrim were at launch put together, multiplied times 100.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
Do I need to grab a doll and you can point where Chris Roberts hurt you?

Legit, they do free fly events, you get to try out the current Alpha build and try out many of the ships, for free. And see the progress that's been made.

When you say "asking for more money" you mean allowing people to pledge for ships? Not once have I been told by CIG "Hand over more cash or we won't let you play" or anything.
That's for sure. I last gave anything several years ago that brought my total in the game to about $400, unless you want to count the 980Ti I bought used on e-bay when prices were cheap or the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog with Pedals that I got for free on a Newegg special, or the Logitech G910 keyboard and G602 mouse I bought. But I don't count those.

And I received the offer that the guy who P&Md about, too. It certainly did not say anything like - "Buy these or your access to the game will be revoked." What did I do with the notice - Ignored it, much like I do with other similar notices from CIG. I am at my limit with what I spent on SC/SQ-42.

Besides, it seems everyone is offering free games like GOG, Ubisoft, and others. My free library of games is on the order of about 20 or so, and I don't really even have time to play them. I'm at about level 16 of Far Cry I and I keep telling myself, "I should finish that game."
I'll never understand people like you, even when all the evidence is against you and you are freely allowed to play the game yourself to decide your own opinion, you just refuse any kind of logic and just double down on "Scam!" "Fraud!", Pretty sad to be honest.
Some people are never satisfied with anything and never will be. 🤷‍♂️
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
The evidence stands with me. It's that simple. All you have are a bunch of tech demos that are loosely connected by a bunch of microtransactions that keep the devs fed.

The "game" is decade off from anything that can be released even as a beta.

This "game" is a disaster of epic proportions from a management standpoint, a direction standpoint and from a financial standpoint. A scam through and through.

If they release a "beta" in the next 5 years (which they won't, at best it will be an alpha build), it will be more broken than what fallout 76, cyberpunk and skyrim were at launch put together, multiplied times 100.
I'm glad you have a working crystal ball. :facepalm:

People who have never even tried the game - and unlike other companies like Ubisoft offering a "free play weekend" the SC free fly periods are typically a week long. So, if you have never tried the game, how do you think your comment on the state of the game has any relevancy? Or are you just taking the word of Joe Blogger from Joe's Gaming Blog.

Join for one of their free trials, download, install, and try it. You can even unsubscribe from their marketing e-mails if you want, and there are videos on you tube of how to get started. But without that, your voice is another in the sea of opinions on SC/SQ-42 and I am sure you know what is said about opinions?
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
@wiyosaya @ This article paints an entirely different picture of Mr. Roberts:


But then again, is a rag like that to be believed? :Not to mention the label "disgruntled employees", would undoubtedly be bandied about.

Aldous Huxley rang in on this more than 80 years ago in Brave New World, "we tried a society of all Alphas, but the constant bickering and warring forced us to call in the army to break it up". Or, in more colloquial terms, "too many cooks spoil the broth"..
I can't say that it seems to me like we have gotten through that "Society of Alpha's" trial period since every one is an expert these days and has a means to voice their expertise - mostly through the internet in some fashion.

In the article, Roberts says he bought his home with money in the bank from previous ventures.

Personally, I think people pointing to what Roberts does with his money is rather lame. I cannot imagine the development expenses, I.e., paying developer salaries, buying the servers needed, and whatever else, for the venture. They have to be steep. Not to mention, that even with the complaints to the FTC, charges, or not to mention even an investigation at that level, have yet to materialize. It is certainly not like CIG has no money, and $350M pledged has suddenly materialized in a Chris Roberts bank account.
Ma hood dun got shot up twice this week. It would be interesting for you to try and judge this crew by superimposing your own intellectual, moral, and value standards, (as you're so prone to do), on these people, and then assume, "you've got them pegged".

As to the question of my own sanity, I wouldn't be offended in the least by someone addressing me with the salutation, "you're a misanthrope, a sociopath, and a cat person".

As far as an engineer working on one piece of software through their entire career, I would think that that might be true in something involving a piece of advanced physics, surveillance, AI, or industrial control system software, but the gaming community's attention span is far to short, and far too fickle, to guarantee continued single title success in that community. Give it a couple of years, and every player will know absolutely, positively, what should have been written, instead of what was.

As for, "We are the Champions", it's the most cleverly constructed veil / excuse for allowing every individual in a huge crowd to vent the full force of their ego, without risk of censure ever written.Yet still, (IMO), it's a piece of sh!t, worthy of a "Golden,Mutie Award".
My statement was rhetorical. I really can't say that I was ever into the group to any extent even if one of them has a PhD in Astrophysics.
I'd probably opt for German martial music, before I embraced that nonsense. At least that has an actual purpose..

BTW, apparently Windows 7 is no longer supported in Star Citizen. Maybe you can dismiss my skepticism as, "sour grapes".

That being said, the hardware requirements for M$ new flight simulator are way, way, over the top, as are those of X-Plane 11. X-Plane 10 is "where I get off". Maybe I should buy a copy of that while I still can. Unfortunately I'm far too cheap, (and broke) to spring for a yoke and rudder pedals. 🤷
M$ Sh!t canning Windohs 7 support for the new Flight Simulator release comes as no surprise to me. For M$' online MSDN developer documentation, I browse that with Waterfox, and this week on browsing it I got a message "This browser is no longer supported. Install Edge." Where's the middle finger emoji when you need it??? ;)
In other news, I have a largely black, spayed, female cat, who enjoys having her backside scratched with an unholy abundance. I'm thinking if I scored some peyote, and recited a few ancient incantations, she might morph into a 19 year human female named, "Sabrina". ;)🤣
If that is what you are looking for, perhaps it is time to take my advice and try Lucid Dreaming. 🧚‍♀️ If you achieve lucidity in your dreams, I guarantee that it is better than the best virtual reality that you can possibly imagine. :)
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
The evidence stands with me. It's that simple. All you have are a bunch of tech demos that are loosely connected by a bunch of microtransactions that keep the devs fed.

The "game" is decade off from anything that can be released even as a beta.

This "game" is a disaster of epic proportions from a management standpoint, a direction standpoint and from a financial standpoint. A scam through and through.

If they release a "beta" in the next 5 years (which they won't, at best it will be an alpha build), it will be more broken than what fallout 76, cyberpunk and skyrim were at launch put together, multiplied times 100.
Dude, that's terribly harsh. But, since it has a brash, bold, stance, backed by the courage of your convictions, I gave you a like for it.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
Personally, I think people pointing to what Roberts does with his money is rather lame. I cannot imagine the development expenses, I.e., paying developer salaries, buying the servers needed, and whatever else, for the venture. They have to be steep. Not to mention, that even with the complaints to the FTC, charges, or not to mention even an investigation at that level, have yet to materialize. It is certainly not like CIG has no money, and $350M pledged has suddenly materialized in a Chris Roberts bank account.
Perhaps but, given the material I read and posted about Roberts as a person and manager, he seems to be , "the Steve Jobs of flight simulators".

Are you familiar with the ads for the >national< SPCa, narrated by Sarah McLaughlin? If so, keep this in mind. The national SPCA is a separate entity from local chapters. That came to light during a recent "adopt a pet" drive in south east PA. All SPCAs are NPOs. The CEO of the national organization, pays himself $800,000 a year. Given those stats, I don't think it's unreasonable to question what any CEO is doing with the money being done with pledges, donations, or purchases. I think that's called, "public oversight. Which shouldn't affect the official, but rather direct the public to determine where best to spend their money.

Jay Leno is a very rich man. Nobody I've heard of, questions where he got his money. You got to watch his shtick every night on TV for free, and he was lavishly compensated for doing it.

So, you can see where these two individuals deserve to have a different set of standards applied,on a case by case basis.
M$ Sh!t canning Windohs 7 support for the new Flight Simulator release comes as no surprise to me. For M$' online MSDN developer documentation, I browse that with Waterfox, and this week on browsing it I got a message "This browser is no longer supported. Install Edge." Where's the middle finger emoji when you need it??? ;)
When are you finally going to come to grips with the fact I've been right about Satya Nadella being a piece of crap, with the herding, stampeding, and force feeding of people Windows 10, from day one?

They're trying to lock down Windows in a parody of Apple's business model, and force planned obsolescence of hardware on the industry in general..(along with discontinuing support for all earlier copies of Windows).

I first thing that came out of Nadella's mouth, "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows", was a blatant lie, and everything that has come out of his mouth since has been a lie.

He's in collusion with hardware manufacturers to make those things your new reality. In more plain terms, he's putting them under of the umbrella of the total monopoly he's trying to create.

In fact, IMO, Nadella is nothing more than a glorified H-1B visa recipient, being paid to do Bill;Gates job for a tenth of the money, in conjunction with being a monumentally and logarithmically bigger a**hole than Gates ever was.

People of his "background", are almost completely impossible to do business with, and still retain any semblance of profitability. I could go on but, it's most likely left to the context of a PM. In contemporary SJW parlance, the truth would be labeled as "hate speech".

If that is what you are looking for, perhaps it is time to take my advice and try Lucid Dreaming. 🧚‍♀️ If you achieve lucidity in your dreams, I guarantee that it is better than the best virtual reality that you can possibly imagine. :)
Well, I have links for that sort of thing as well. The only problem is, all the women are named in variations of Natasha or Anastasia.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
Perhaps but, given the material I read and posted about Roberts as a person and manager, he seems to be , "the Steve Jobs of flight simulators".

Are you familiar with the ads for the >national< SPCa, narrated by Sarah McLaughlin? If so, keep this in mind. The national SPCA is a separate entity from local chapters. That came to light during a recent "adopt a pet" drive in south east PA. All SPCAs are NPOs. The CEO of the national organization, pays himself $800,000 a year. Given those stats, I don't think it's unreasonable to question what any CEO is doing with the money being done with pledges, donations, or purchases. I think that's called, "public oversight. Which shouldn't affect the official, but rather direct the public to determine where best to spend their money.
Not-for-profits somewhat fit into a different mold. There are organizations out there that watch over such not-for-profits and make recommendations on who is worthy of their donations.

The simple fact of the matter is that Chris Roberts does have cash from his previous development efforts such as the Wing Commander series as it says in that article. He is not destitute, and did not all of a sudden, get rich after the kickstarter on SC/SQ-42. But, feel free to think he did.
Jay Leno is a very rich man. Nobody I've heard of, questions where he got his money. You got to watch his shtick every night on TV for free, and he was lavishly compensated for doing it.

So, you can see where these two individuals deserve to have a different set of standards applied,on a case by case basis.

When are you finally going to come to grips with the fact I've been right about Satya Nadella being a piece of crap, with the herding, stampeding, and force feeding of people Windows 10, from day one?
Who says that I even give a crap about Satya Nadella? Just in case you are not aware of it, I have been ranting against Micro-crapsoft and Windohs for years here on TS and elsewhere. I was providing an example, however, it seems that all you see is my providing competition to your glorious range of knowledge.

Heil Cranky!

If I could just drop into a new development role and not work developing Windohs software, I would. Unfortunately, no one will hire a developer for another OS without any relevant experience.

But since you have no experience as a professional software developer, I can't expect you to have a clue.

BTW - feel free to report this post for my rant.
Well, I have links for that sort of thing as well. The only problem is, all the women are named in variations of Natasha or Anastasia.
Sure you do, :rolleyes: Captain -
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
BTW - feel free to report this post for my rant.
I'm not sure how I provoked it,let alone wanting to report it. Do you feel better now, for whatever reason?

The idea that publicly supported projects do have a certain obligation to transparency, no matter who's running them, isn't novel.

As for Roberts, in one rumor he's worth a hundred grand or a million. In another, he's driving a $400.000 sports car. If he's only making say $500.000, he'd almost be eligible for food stamps..

None of which matters to me. The game gets finished, the game never gets finishes, it's of no personal consequence to me.

My only interest/curiosity in the thread, is the always predictable appearance of Joe Blobbers, whenever Star Citizen is exposed to negative press. It's like clockwork.

I may "not know Jack", but I am familiar with human behaviour and allegiances. And one of those most persistent traits, is to identify with someone who agrees with you, and shun those that don't. But bear in mind, there was no personal assault toward you on my part. (At least none that I'm aware of).

So, I'm quite ambivalent about this game to the extent that I don't need to play it. I actually think what can be done in the atmosphere with regard to powered human flight, is much more interesting than outer space anyway..

"Lomcevak " is derived from a Czechoslovakian word which roughly means "headache" or "hangover"

As far as having as working prototype of SC, after $350,000,000, don't you agree that it should?.

Now, the only consequence of your rant to befall you, (If you even categorize it as such), is that we're done for a bit, and you should continue to commune with Blobbers, for as long as he's here this time. :laughing:

PS: my rant about Nadella, was in support of you being kicked off M$' website, because of your browser not being Edge.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
I'm not sure how I provoked it,let alone wanting to report it. Do you feel better now, for whatever reason?
Of course. I feel as if I have taken a good :poop: Apologies, Captain.
The idea that publicly supported projects do have a certain obligation to transparency, no matter who's running them, isn't novel.
That's covered in the TOS which all "kickstarter" projects have as did/does SC/SQ-42. Heck, even when I installed the latest patch earlier today, a disclaimer popped up. And that SC/SQ-42 has and does have such is almost certainly the reason why they have been successful in defending themselves against lawsuits. Now we might call that underhanded, but where does the responsibility fall for that - in the laws. So maybe that is part of our other favorite topic - the systemic problems with human society.

As I see it, a charity or not for profit is in a different class. In no way was SC/SQ-42 ever sold as a game that supports a public charity. Personally, I have not heard of any charity using "kickstarter" as their fundraising mechanism. Kickstarter may not even allow that kind of project (using the term loosely) on the site.
As for Roberts, in one rumor he's worth a hundred grand or a million. In another, he's driving a $400.000 sports car. If he's only making say $500.000, he'd almost be eligible for food stamps..
I tend not to pay attention to rumor.
None of which matters to me. The game gets finished, the game never gets finishes, it's of no personal consequence to me.

My only interest/curiosity in the thread, is the always predictable appearance of Joe Blobbers, whenever Star Citizen is exposed to negative press. It's like clockwork.
Wow. What did he do to you? Do you suspect he is a shill? What if he is? Is there anything you can do about it? Maybe Joe Blobbers is Chris Roberts? 🤣
I may "not know Jack", but I am familiar with human behaviour and allegiances. And one of those most persistent traits, is to identify with someone who agrees with you, and shun those that don't. But bear in mind, there was no personal assault toward you on my part. (At least none that I'm aware of).

So, I'm quite ambivalent about this game to the extent that I don't need to play it. I actually think what can be done in the atmosphere with regard to powered human flight, is much more interesting than outer space anyway..

"Lomcevak " is derived from a Czechoslovakian word which roughly means "headache" or "hangover"

As far as having as working prototype of SC, after $350,000,000, don't you agree that it should?.
There is. Go out and download it. Install it. Oh, right. You are ambivalent. Got it.

From my perspective, an "alpha" is a prototype. If you are so ambivalent about it, then why are you spending any energy commenting on it? Joe Blobbers? Perhaps the definition of those words above are relevant? How about you? Do you feel better now that you've implied to everyone in the thread about how kickstarter projects with well-known and prevalent disclaimers that you may not receive anything should be held to the same standards as charities?
Now, the only consequence of your rant to befall you, (If you even categorize it as such), is that we're done for a bit, and you should continue to commune with Blobbers, for as long as he's here this time. :laughing:
Its a free site. Anyone who is a member of TS has a right to post here for any reason. :facepalm: Honestly, I don't really care whether a member only shows up to comment on a particular subject. AFAIK, there is nothing in TS TOS that says they cannot do that, is there?
PS: my rant about Nadella, was in support of you being kicked off M$' website, because of your browser not being Edge.
That was just M$ JA Advertising. Waterfox still works with reduced functionality on the site, but in a manner that makes it barely more difficult to navigate. It's nothing I cannot handle. Thanks for your concern.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
Wow. What did he do to you? Do you suspect he is a shill? What if he is? Is there anything you can do about it? Maybe Joe Blobbers is Chris Roberts? 🤣
I'm certain he's a shill. But I question seriously if he's Roberts himself. Probably connected wit CIG's PR staff.

I honestly don't care if he posts or not. I'm used to it, I know what to expect, and how to deal with it.
As I see it, a charity or not for profit is in a different class. In no way was SC/SQ-42 ever sold as a game that supports a public charity. Personally, I have not heard of any charity using "kickstarter" as their fundraising mechanism. Kickstarter may not even allow that kind of project (using the term loosely) on the site.
You're making bizarre connections with what I've written to what you want to think I've said. None of it was intended on my part.

I've been generalizing throughout this entire thread Kickstarter,,,, in general. Executive salaries...in general. Where you've dreamed up the idea that I';m under the impression Star Citizen is an NPO organization, or has marketed itself as an NPO conclusions, I have no clue. None. Zip, Zero. Nada.

Tesla was, (unintentionally), an NPO for the longest time. Now it tentatively isn't. This paradigm may eventually come to pass for CIG as well. (However, as I understand it, Musk got all the tax breaks as though it was an NPO).

I'm also aware that Kickstarter is not a "Go Fund Me", proposition. I didn't need that difference explained to me

The only thing your context leads me to conclude is that you're "all in" with this project, and you choose to take offense at my ambivalence.

I haven't once indicated that you shouldn't have taken up with Star Citizen. Please afford me the courtesy to not do so, without prejudice.

I think amateur astronomy is a crushing bore, especially in light of the fact I live in the big city. For me, it would be mandatory to drive 20 miles and set up a telescope god knows where to watch god knows what. But I've never derided you for having that interest.

Then comes the hardware rerquirements for SC. Blobbers is sayin it runs on Win 7, while Roberts' own site is telling me that 8.1 is minimum.

I still have a copy of M$ "FS-2004" People are trying to get a hundred bucks or so for that program. The only reason I haven't installed it, is because M$ alleges my CD emulator won't run on 7. Now, you can rip the FS disc to an ISO, install the program from that, but you still can't run the program without the original CD in a drive. CD ROM ;lock or some sh!t..

If I were to invest in another flight sim, it would be an RC model sim, as I was heavily involved with RC flying many years ago. Would you be willing to encourage me with that instead of SC? Or is it SC or nothing as far as you're concerned?
.
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 66   +50
I'm certain he's a shill. But I question seriously if he's Roberts himself. Probably connected wit CIG's PR staff.

I honestly don't care if he posts or not. I'm used to it, I know what to expect, and how to deal with it.


.
@captain, from someone who bring financial rumor like a 1M salary or 400K$ car, I would said that your post are clearly a gigantic BS.

Your way to deal with what you disagree is to throw rumors... Good for you but you know that many readers can make the difference between facts and rumors?

Not only CR add a successful life before this kisckstarter but he was also at time, selling sport cars. There is a way between driving a car that could have cost one third of there price because you get it used and another to insinuate such cash is taken directly from backers pocket... which is the reason why your right such rumors.

What I provide are facts and numbers, for sure that must hurt your conception of honesty, rumors + I don't care about what others said.... That's a parody of opinion. Keep going, new backers joining don't do it because of Joe and they are certainly not disgusted either to try for free a game some try to soil by all possible means. Rumors, lies,obfuscation are made by less than 100 guys some using alts versus 1 million backers and growing, dedicated haters trying to hurt CR through backers.... I have a bad news: that failed miserably from start. You don't care... backers and readers don't care as well of naysayers/haters :)
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
from someone who bring financial rumor like a 1M salary or 400K$ car, I would said that your post are clearly a gigantic BS.
I've never started a rumor about Chris Roberts, or anything like it. I've only repeated what I've gotten from the internet.

Accordingly, I'll post my sources from now on, and you can take it the f*ck up with them. Got it?

One thing that certainly isn't a rumor, is the fact you don't participate in this forum unless it's a topic involved with Star Citizen.

Oh, and you have your profile hidden, or are you claiming I'm starting a rumor about that too?

And BTW, the only former worst occupation you could have with respect to a perceived lack of credibility than a car salesman, is a person injury lawyer.

Here, you can start by quashing these "rumors"

 
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JoeBlobers

Posts: 66   +50
I've never started a rumor about Chris Roberts, or anything like it. I've only repeated what I've gotten from the internet.

Accordingly, I'll post my sources from now on, and you can take it the f*ck up with them. Got it?

One thing that certainly isn't a rumor, is the fact you don't participate in this forum unless it's a topic involved with Star Citizen.

Oh, and you have your profile hidden, or are you claiming I'm starting a rumor about that too?

And BTW, the only former worst occupation you could have with respect to a perceived lack of credibility than a car salesman, is a person injury lawyer.

Here, you can start by quashing these "rumors"

You never started rumors... you are just meticulously repeating them while pretending you are neutral...
For someone who don't even care about the project, you filled in this comment section with a dedication I see only from either sneaky haters or even worst, bored individual selecting the last available subject of the day, pick a position suggesting preferably, that the worst may happen, complemented by some internet links (of course only those suggesting the worst possible scenario) then stick to it while raising vigorously a 'neutral' flag...

Yes I am here only because SC, so what?

I won't let comment section opened only to individual throwing lies, obfuscation or rumors... because contrary to you I care about this project.

You won't see me elsewhere pretending I don't care while leaving at the same time multiple comments, preferably by selecting one side, while copying pasting all type of rumors left on internet by self-proclaimed experts of triple-A development (or whatever 'expertise' required by the article subject), explaining "CIG is going to collapse 90 days top for sure!!"... back in 2015. The link about so called "mishandled management" is the modernized version of this failed prophecy done by two more than lazy Forbes 'journalists' who literally picked the old memes from the hater refund dedicated nest on reddit and copy-paste them. Article done. According to those guys that was a 7 months investigation (their own words lol)... An insult to journalism at large....
then happened the end of 2019:CIG made its best funding year... exploded 12 month later by +30%

Not counting an endless list of prophecies of doom from the same nest, that... all failed to change.

You don't care about me as per your own past comment. Fine I am not here to get your up-vote but pinpoint those acting like you do with facts and numbers, not rumors.
At the end new backers do make their choice by testing the latest build themselves rather than trying to decipher who is who.

- 3 new gameplay by the end of year. Zero rumor.
- CR moving to UK to finish SQ42. Zero rumor.
- 1 million individual backers and counting. +200.000 in 2020. Zero rumor
- Roadmaps showing next three quarters of contents + detailed objectives for each of the 50+ teams (internal Jira tool exposed to backers). Zero rumor.

Believe it or not, backers vote with their brain before voting with their wallet.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
I'm certain he's a shill. But I question seriously if he's Roberts himself. Probably connected wit CIG's PR staff.

I honestly don't care if he posts or not. I'm used to it, I know what to expect, and how to deal with it.

You're making bizarre connections with what I've written to what you want to think I've said. None of it was intended on my part.
Yada, yada crap removed.

Captain, I really don't care if you've attacked me for liking it or not. Nor do I care if you think Amateur Astronomy is a subject you care about. You obviously know that I enjoy the field, so your comments about such are what in relation to me? "Acting in character?"

At this point, I remain skeptical about SC/SQ-42 and whether it will be released. I am sure I am not the only backer to have such feelings. I certainly do not need to run around the internet and repeat what some speculator has already said about it just to get back at SC/SQ-42 for money I willingly spent. I know what is going around and am well aware of all the doubt and the controversy even if it is spread by "backers" who agreed to terms of service agreements when they pledged, and then complain when they knew fully what they were getting into.

To me, that you think "public projects" should be subject to oversight, and then make subsequent comments about the leaders of not-for-profits and how they spend their money - while speaking out of the other side of your mouth about how Chris Roberts "reportedly spends his money" implies a tie there whether you say there is one or not.

And your comments about Roberts once being a used car salesman. Who cares? It would appear from your comments that you think that because he was, its a black mark on him that predicts his future. And just what did he achieve since then? Only one of the most successful game series ever in the Wing Commander series, not to mention other great, IMO, games like Strike Commander and Privateer. I am not pretending that his success with those games will portend future success with SC/SQ-42. However, those games most certainly earned him enough to retire fashionably.

For someone like you who is admittedly "ambivalent" and has never participated in a free-fly week, or, perhaps, viewed any of the You Tube videos recorded in-game by backers, to come along and make comments like
As far as having as working prototype of SC, after $350,000,000, don't you agree that it should?.
available when there has been one for years and then pretend you have no interest, is, to me spreading misinformation at best, lies at worst, and seems rather off to me - just another internet expert on something with which you have no direct experience.

Best wishes Captain. I am sure we will find something to disagree on in the future.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,194   +5,935
Best wishes Captain. I am sure we will find something to disagree on in the future.
No doubt, as I am thoroughly sick and tired of you reading meanings into my posts which were never intended in the way you chose to interpret them.

The game has turned into the proverbial, "money pit", and. that's a given. However, if Roberts is a you say, starting a gaming development company, then maybe an IPO offering would be a possible route going forward. But from my observations he's to desperate to be in full control to cede any oversight to potential stockholders. After all, jump go through all the hoops necessary to do that, when you can much more easily sell imaginary spaceships

Used car salesmen and their credibility have for decades held in low esteem. I was actually mentioning to Blobbers that's not a sales route for the game. What I got was that "Roberts has to have an expensive car, because he is used to driving high end vehicles. Again, not an explanation I would utilize in promoting Star Citizen. Bottom line, that's beyond lame..

Now, I've been consistently accused of misunderstand, repeating, nay verily, "starting rumors". Which I haven't done. I've taken everything into account.

If anything, I've been lied to in relation as to whether or not the game will run on Win 7.

Perhaps Blobbers is telling the truth that it will However Roberts own support site makes him out to be a liar, since it plainly states Windows 8.1, and above under, "minimum requirements". But, perhaps it will and Roberts is lying.

Then we come to the fun part, dyads and triads in interpersonal communication. First, you have to justify your investment in SC to yourself, and somehow have undertaken to "spread the word", as in the manner of an apostle. I'm the "doubting Thomas", and therefore subjected to censure, by the other two members of the "triad", who have seemingly formed a mutual admiration.society..

When you couple that with the fact that you claim to be software developer, it's very likely that you identify and sympathize with Roberts, much more than me.

A constant theme here has been, "oh you have to have skin in the game before you're entitled to an opinion. In plain English, you have to give Roberts money before you're allowed to speak ". and ambivalence" will not be tolerated

I asked you a simple, straightforward question, if I said any interest I had in a future flight sim purchase it would be a radio control version, instead of SC, would you support me. Apparently you deleted that as "crap, yadda, yadda"., and refused to condescend to even answer me.

Which from this keyboard, instantly labels you as a "convert" a single minded promoter of SC, and a fanatic, if not rabid, follower of SC..

As I said before, at the $350,000,000 dollar mark, SC should be a salable, finished product, and if it were, at that point I might be a somewhat less ambivalent toward it.

As for "future disagreements", only time will tell on that..
 

JoeBlobers

Posts: 66   +50
The game has turned into the proverbial, "money pit", and. that's a given. ......After all, jump go through all the hoops necessary to do that, when you can much more easily sell imaginary spaceships
This is called Crowdfunding model. used by hundreds thousands over year with a simple pitch: pledge now to get product later. Ships are what SC is selling vs pledges. You pretend to be neutral but in case of SC that is truly false.
Also there is no pit. You know devs are paid, even employees working for charity are paid but no SC devs? It is not a pit because they do develop two games, one played in alpha since years, till final release... when done only. Yes I know this is chocking to release ambitious finished game by today Publishers standard.

Used car salesmen and their credibility have for decades held in low esteem. I was actually mentioning to Blobbers that's not a sales route for the game. What I got was that "Roberts has to have an expensive car, because he is used to driving high end vehicles. Again, not an explanation I would utilize in promoting Star Citizen. Bottom line, that's beyond lame..
Backers do not join the project because CR was a car salesman. You are now explaining that driving expensive car was not your mean to say... well why copying rumors all negative rumors of course, if you don't agree on principle with the content... this is lame... because remember, you are neutral right.
Also a 400K$ can be bought for less than a third of its value. Many people do drive expensive car because they like them. so what? every "luxury" items do prove something weird about their owners? Without surprise that what haters do spread constantly through rumors.

Now, I've been consistently accused of misunderstand, repeating, nay verily, "starting rumors". Which I haven't done. I've taken everything into account.
You did it factually by copying pasting several time only links with negative content and never made a single attempt to search for what is the project state for real.
Everybody can copy/paste internet links. if you were so neutral and aware of internet you would know most sites do make only bold click-bait titles and further research are always mandatory to decipher the whole thing.
Don't pick random subject you don't care about with such lazy attitude, you are not neutral at all and you did not taken evrything into account. It is a straight lie.


If anything, I've been lied to in relation as to whether or not the game will run on Win 7.
Perhaps Blobbers is telling the truth that it will However Roberts own support site makes him out to be a liar, since it plainly states Windows 8.1, and above under, "minimum requirements". But, perhaps it will and Roberts is lying.

No CIG site do not lie. A company insuring the oldest OS is excluded of 100% compatibility does not means older OS don't.
I simply explain that WIN 7 pack 1 was compatible with 64 software and explained what the sum of Win7 (64) + 8.1 was versus Win10 %

For information out of my two rigs... one still use Win 7. SC works like a charm... Also CIG is pushing Vulkan so SC will be compatible with users, just for information.

First, you have to justify your investment in SC to yourself, and somehow have undertaken to "spread the word", as in the manner of an apostle. I'm the "doubting Thomas", and therefore subjected to censure, by the other two members of the "triad", who have seemingly formed a mutual admiration.society..
There is no society, no triad not even two guys joint effort to change everybody mind.... just individuals aware of reality, with a wider view than you, both about negative and positive, pinpointing some explaining they "took everything into account", when clearly they did not but pretend to have. Straight lies vs facts and numbers.
There is no cult @captaincranky, using words like 'apostle' in your answer point again the weakness of your neutral claim. Same sentence, same links, same words than those used by naysayers/haters doing their best to soil the project. You factually have the same behavior than those guys...
You are clearly a bit more neutral at each answer lol

A constant theme here has been, "oh you have to have skin in the game before you're entitled to an opinion. In plain English, you have to give Roberts money before you're allowed to speak ". and ambivalence" will not be tolerated
No it is not a constant you have to be a backer to have an opinion.

In plain English it is a constant that those playing for real the game over years do have more precise vision of game development and game change between patch than other not caring about the project or picking an opinion based on click-bait titles.
They do have a clearer knowledge of the project evolution as they do follow daily, weekly, monthly all type of communication and not only internet bold click-bait titles.

As I said before, at the $350,000,000 dollar mark, SC should be a salable, finished product, and if it were, at that point I might be a somewhat less ambivalent toward it.

Not at all. For four main reasons.

- At end of kickstarter they were 12 guys (not all devs), no studios, no pipelines, generic game engine, 6M$. They slowly grow from there. CB2077 which is a fraction of sSQ42/SC scope + features, tooks 8 years and do require a good two years of multiple patch and free DLC's to be what it was supposed to be... from a company with several games released and all resources at hands from start (devs, pipelines, cash),

- They make two ambitious triple-A. SC alpha is packed with more features than any single released AAA and the gap increase at each patch,

- Publishers did spend hundreds M$ over years to become what they are, CIG have to do the same while growing and developing games available to backers, hence a 'more playable' state than any other company will do for a standard alpha,

- release when done, not because shareholders want their % of quarterly profit sharing versus games completion.

We can however agree on one single point: release of SQ42 (assuming it is widely approved as good by a majority) will lift most of naysayers/haters main stick with their scam, vaporware and ponzi flags (none of them being indeed true even now as words have a meaning)
 
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Puiu

Posts: 4,858   +3,745
TechSpot Elite
This is called Crowdfunding model. used by hundreds thousands over year with a simple pitch: pledge now to get product later. Ships are what SC is selling vs pledges. You pretend to be neutral but in case of SC that is truly false.
Also there is no pit. You know devs are paid, even employees working for charity are paid but no SC devs? It is not a pit because they do develop two games, one played in alpha since years, till final release... when done only. Yes I know this is chocking to release ambitious finished game by today Publishers standard.


Backers do not join the project because CR was a car salesman. You are now explaining that driving expensive car was not your mean to say... well why copying rumors all negative rumors of course, if you don't agree on principle with the content... this is lame... because remember, you are neutral right.
Also a 400K$ can be bought for less than a third of its value. Many people do drive expensive car because they like them. so what? every "luxury" items do prove something weird about their owners? Without surprise that what haters do spread constantly through rumors.


You did it factually by copying pasting several time only links with negative content and never made a single attempt to search for what is the project state for real.
Everybody can copy/paste internet links. if you were so neutral and aware of internet you would know most sites do make only bold click-bait titles and further research are always mandatory to decipher the whole thing.
Don't pick random subject you don't care about with such lazy attitude, you are not neutral at all and you did not taken evrything into account. It is a straight lie.




No CIG site do not lie. A company insuring the oldest OS is excluded of 100% compatibility does not means older OS don't.
I simply explain that WIN 7 pack 1 was compatible with 64 software and explained what the sum of Win7 (64) + 8.1 was versus Win10 %

For information out of my two rigs... one still use Win 7. SC works like a charm... Also CIG is pushing Vulkan so SC will be compatible with users, just for information.


There is no society, no triad not even two guys joint effort to change everybody mind.... just individuals aware of reality, with a wider view than you, both about negative and positive, pinpointing some explaining they "took everything into account", when clearly they did not but pretend to have. Straight lies vs facts and numbers.
There is no cult @captaincranky, using words like 'apostle' in your answer point again the weakness of your neutral claim. Same sentence, same links, same words than those used by naysayers/haters doing their best to soil the project. You factually have the same behavior than those guys...
You are clearly a bit more neutral at each answer lol


No it is not a constant you have to be a backer to have an opinion.

In plain English it is a constant that those playing for real the game over years do have more precise vision of game development and game change between patch than other not caring about the project or picking an opinion based on click-bait titles.
They do have a clearer knowledge of the project evolution as they do follow daily, weekly, monthly all type of communication and not only internet bold click-bait titles.



Not at all. For four main reasons.

- At end of kickstarter they were 12 guys (not all devs), no studios, no pipelines, generic game engine, 6M$. They slowly grow from there. CB2077 which is a fraction of sSQ42/SC scope + features, tooks 8 years and do require a good two years of multiple patch and free DLC's to be what it was supposed to be... from a company with several games released and all resources at hands from start (devs, pipelines, cash),

- They make two ambitious triple-A. SC alpha is packed with more features than any single released AAA and the gap increase at each patch,

- Publishers did spend hundreds M$ over years to become what they are, CIG have to do the same while growing and developing games available to backers, hence a 'more playable' state than any other company will do for a standard alpha,

- release when done, not because shareholders want their % of quarterly profit sharing versus games completion.

We can however agree on one single point: release of SQ42 (assuming it is widely approved as good by a majority) will lift most of naysayers/haters main stick with their scam, vaporware and ponzi flags (none of them being indeed true even now as words have a meaning)
I don't think you understand at all just how far off SC is from being an actually playable game that can be released to the public. Any developer will you tell you this: 90% of the work is in the last 10% (and this is not a joke). This is why people call it a scam, it's just not feasible to finish it at the rate they are burning money.

Who the hell expects whales to feed a project for 2 decades and at the of those 2 decades to call it "a success"? Sadly the sunk cost fallacy is real with this project and you are the perfect example of it. In 2031 you'll still be writing in forums just how great it will be when it comes out.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
I don't think you understand at all just how far off SC is from being an actually playable game that can be released to the public. Any developer will you tell you this: 90% of the work is in the last 10% (and this is not a joke). This is why people call it a scam, it's just not feasible to finish it at the rate they are burning money.

Who the hell expects whales to feed a project for 2 decades and at the of those 2 decades to call it "a success"? Sadly the sunk cost fallacy is real with this project and you are the perfect example of it. In 2031 you'll still be writing in forums just how great it will be when it comes out.
Without any real experience, all anyone (such as yourself) can do is parrot what everyone else with a negative opinion of the game is saying. Feel free to keep doing so, and those who do have real experience in the game will just keep ignoring you and the strawmen (and other ridiculous comparisons like SC/SQ-42 to Whales) that people parroting negative press continually throw onto the fire.

BTW - though there are subscribers who pay a monthly fee, there are other people out there, such as myself, who refuse to give RSI/CIG any more money.

If those with real experience 10-years down the line are still claiming that it will come out ten years from then, they will still have gotten 10+ years worth of enjoying the game and the money they have put into the game instead of following the mob mentality. That will certainly be longevity far beyond what even major studios give their game releases.

Come back to us after you have installed and run it during a free fly week. We might listen to you then. The learning curve is steep, but there are plenty of You Tube videos that cover getting started in the game.

As to SC/SQ-42 on Windows 7, it used to run on 64-bit Windows 7, I have no idea of the deeper requirements of the game for instance, if it is dependent on recent versions of the .net framework that won't run on Windows 7, then no, it won't run on Windows 7. But to expect any major game studio, or any other software manufacturer (the company I work for has dropped Windows 7 support from their software) to support their game on Windows 7 now that M$ has ended support for Windows 7 is, IMO, beyond unreasonable.

SC/SQ-42 MIGHT still run on Windows 7 if you are able to install it on Windows 7, but if it doesn't run, I think it unreasonable to P&M about it not running on it - especially since the updated system requirements on RSI specifically state that 64-bit 8.1 is a minimum. Though anyone wanting to run the game on Windows 7 might not want to, I would not be surprised if such a person were still able to get a upgrade to Windows 10.

If you really want an "atmospheric flight simulator" where the requirements allow it to run on Windows 7 (and that was made by Chris Roberts) then Try Strike Commander https://www.gog.com/game/strike_commander IMO, it was a fun experience where the main plane is an F-16 and you also get a chance at flying an F-23 - which ultimately lost the US Air Force contract to the F-22. It will set you back $5.99 from Gog. Just remember, when you get to the mission where you need to support those taking down the Castle, just load a GBU and bomb the castle. ;)
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,858   +3,745
TechSpot Elite
Without any real experience, all anyone (such as yourself) can do is parrot what everyone else with a negative opinion of the game is saying. Feel free to keep doing so, and those who do have real experience in the game will just keep ignoring you and the strawmen (and other ridiculous comparisons like SC/SQ-42 to Whales) that people parroting negative press continually throw onto the fire.

BTW - though there are subscribers who pay a monthly fee, there are other people out there, such as myself, who refuse to give RSI/CIG any more money.

If those with real experience 10-years down the line are still claiming that it will come out ten years from then, they will still have gotten 10+ years worth of enjoying the game and the money they have put into the game instead of following the mob mentality. That will certainly be longevity far beyond what even major studios give their game releases.

Come back to us after you have installed and run it during a free fly week. We might listen to you then. The learning curve is steep, but there are plenty of You Tube videos that cover getting started in the game.

As to SC/SQ-42 on Windows 7, it used to run on 64-bit Windows 7, I have no idea of the deeper requirements of the game for instance, if it is dependent on recent versions of the .net framework that won't run on Windows 7, then no, it won't run on Windows 7. But to expect any major game studio, or any other software manufacturer (the company I work for has dropped Windows 7 support from their software) to support their game on Windows 7 now that M$ has ended support for Windows 7 is, IMO, beyond unreasonable.

SC/SQ-42 MIGHT still run on Windows 7 if you are able to install it on Windows 7, but if it doesn't run, I think it unreasonable to P&M about it not running on it - especially since the updated system requirements on RSI specifically state that 64-bit 8.1 is a minimum. Though anyone wanting to run the game on Windows 7 might not want to, I would not be surprised if such a person were still able to get a upgrade to Windows 10.

If you really want an "atmospheric flight simulator" where the requirements allow it to run on Windows 7 (and that was made by Chris Roberts) then Try Strike Commander https://www.gog.com/game/strike_commander IMO, it was a fun experience where the main plane is an F-16 and you also get a chance at flying an F-23 - which ultimately lost the US Air Force contract to the F-22. It will set you back $5.99 from Gog. Just remember, when you get to the mission where you need to support those taking down the Castle, just load a GBU and bomb the castle. ;)
I prefer to be a parrot which sees reality. A scam is a scam and I'll call it as such until the day I'm proven wrong.

Just so you know, I've enjoyed tech demos too, it doesn't mean that I should call them games. I enjoy going on codepen and and looking at random bits of code that do cool stuff, and unfortunately that's where SC is today.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,383   +4,709
I prefer to be a parrot which sees reality. A scam is a scam and I'll call it as such until the day I'm proven wrong.

Just so you know, I've enjoyed tech demos too, it doesn't mean that I should call them games. I enjoy going on codepen and and looking at random bits of code that do cool stuff, and unfortunately that's where SC is today.
Tech demos, but you specifically fail to mention ever having done one with SC/SQ-42. You can claim whatever you want about reality, but experiencing reality through the eyes of another lacks a level of reality that is only accessible through first-person experience, IMO.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, there is hours of playable content.

You're entitled to your opinion, as much as you are to have an attitude that you are right, and everyone else is wrong, but those who have experience with what is available from a first-person standpoint will continue to find your experience lacking.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 524   +383
Tech demos, but you specifically fail to mention ever having done one with SC/SQ-42. You can claim whatever you want about reality, but experiencing reality through the eyes of another lacks a level of reality that is only accessible through first-person experience, IMO.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, there is hours of playable content.

You're entitled to your opinion, as much as you are to have an attitude that you are right, and everyone else is wrong, but those who have experience with what is available from a first-person standpoint will continue to find your experience lacking.
Do you have experience, or are you also parroting for the other side, justifying your wasted money?
You called upon this few posts back, so I am just directing your question back at you, trying to expose you for the same thing you are trying to expose people that disagree with your opinion.

Roberts took over 350 M$ and made no game.
All he does to stay afloat is release new ship models to sell, that's mainly what his company is doing, trying to stay afloat. I can link evidence and videos, that wont change your opinion, naturally.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,858   +3,745
TechSpot Elite
Tech demos, but you specifically fail to mention ever having done one with SC/SQ-42. You can claim whatever you want about reality, but experiencing reality through the eyes of another lacks a level of reality that is only accessible through first-person experience, IMO.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, there is hours of playable content.

You're entitled to your opinion, as much as you are to have an attitude that you are right, and everyone else is wrong, but those who have experience with what is available from a first-person standpoint will continue to find your experience lacking.
I did try the "tech demo" a while ago. Back then it barely opened without crashing. And I don't need to try the current "latest" version. I can just watch a stream or a few videos to understand the state SC is in now.

It's pretty simple: it's nowhere near where it should be for it to launch this decade and I'm serious. They should have scaled down years ago to finish the core game, but now it's too late. They have to pump whale bait to stay afloat.
 
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