AMD axes Zen 3 support on 400-series motherboards: Is AMD pulling an Intel?

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
Every reviewer the industry over was of the "all you need for Zen 2 is B450 because: there aren't enough benefits to justify 570 if you don't care about PCIE 4.0, the 570 mobos are too expensive, and there isn't even a performance loss compared to a 470". Which isn't wrong, btw and is fantastic for the consumer. The motherboards are 2 years old in 2020, and CAN STILL SUPPORT ZEN 2 RYZEN 9 chips. Call me a jerk but this isn't like when I was on the z170 platform with a 6600k and had limited options (literally only the 7700k was worth upgrading to, and in 2018 it was still 300+ dollars).
People who got their boards in 2018, probably got their money's worth.
The main problem is with people who got their brand new B450 boards in 2020. MSI MAX series was released in late 2019, and you can't blame MSI, since B550 boards were still nowhere in sight. How do you justify that those people don't get to upgrade their CPUs, even if it's technically possible, and their boards are perfectly capable in terms of quality? If B550 boards were available since Zen 2 launch, people would get them and upgrade to Zen 3 later (or they won't, if there will be better alternatives). But B450 was the only available option, and it was heavily implyed that they WILL support Zen 3 (it's even directly written on MSI website). You can't even say it's MSI's fault, since I doubt they would mislead their customers on purpose. This seems like an internal communication problem, so AMD are totally responsible for it (even if MSI are probably also ones to blame).

And yes, if Intel did something much worse in the past, it still doesn't justify AMD for doing something simply bad.

Besides, the main reason for public outrage is to force company react. There is no real reason to defend them. It's obvious that they screwed up, nobody can't deny it (though some people try). If they go back and fix it, people will naturally calm down, and all this outrage would be worth it. If they don't, they deserve the negativity they get.
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
Not being an AMD apologist, but does no one remember last year and the issues with BIOS for Zen 2 on older boards? It was a nightmare situation for them to get 300/400 series boards compatible with new CPUs with boot kits, sending AGESA to OEMs to flash them at the factory before sale, and all sorts of logistical messes (My friend bought an X570 cause he didn't want to mess with finding which board was compatible from the start), so I get it from that standpoint they don't want to go through with the headache all over again.

Those issues will still happen with X570 boards, since they don't come with Zen 3 support from the factory, they need to be flashed with newest BIOS before they can work with newest processors.

You can avoid such issues with older boards, if you just openly state that support is unofficial, so DON'T BUY THIS if you are getting a new system with newest processor and want it to work out of the box. People will be happy enough with unofficial support: just for the sake of upgrading. If you already own Ryzen processor and want to buy a new one, you can flash newest BIOS using your previous processor and then put the new one in the socket.

They can also provide delayed support for older boards, to make sure there are no issues. People who don't want to buy newest motherboard can probably wait a few months with their older processors, till updates are polished to work with their boards.

Current B450 boards are in no way different to X570 boards when it comes to support: they already come with Zen 2 support out of the box. If they can solve this problem for X570, they can solve it for B450 as well.

Regarding beta software, so far it seems there won't be any, since they specifically said they won't do what they did with B350 and X370 (which are also supported only unofficially).

And yes, it's really funny how some people are playing with semantics. If thing you are saying can be interpreted in 2 way, assume it will be interpreted in worst possible way. AMD promised support through 2020, and regardless of what they actually meant, they should own up to it and next time be more careful, or apologize and admit they overestimated their own capabilities by saying that. This whole "but they didn't mean it that way" is just pathetic.

Everyone is pointing to the 16 MB BIOS storage that x570 boards and b450 boards have as indication that it's possible to include support for new chips on older boards, yet not a single person who chimed in (myself included) is someone who compiles AGESA.

That's the only reasonable point I have seen. It's possible that AGESA for X570 and B550 boards is more optimized and can fit to 16 MB, but the one that supports B450 can't. It's also possible that making 2 different versions of AGESA for older and newer boards will cost too much. But all of this is still not a good excuse to refuse providing support for boards with 32 MB BIOS chip, as those can fit any BIOS without any extra effort. Those boards at the very least shouldn't have any difficulties supporting ALL processors using AM4 socket.

Just think about it: if X570 boards can support Zen 2 and Zen 3 with 16 MB socket, and B450 boards can support Zen 1, Zen + and Zen 2 with 16 MB socket, there is no way 32 MB boards won't be able to support all 4 with 32 MB socket. Worst case scenario they might require an optional BIOS that will drop support for Zen 1 and possibly Zen+, but that's what X570 will most likely get anyway (since there is no way they can keep Zen and Zen + support on 16 MB X570 boards while adding Zen 3 support).
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
This is a horrible article, Steven. And it's misleading as well. Clearly you don't understand the difference between them promising to maintain the AM4 socket, and promising to include every new chipset they manufacture. Is it not 2020 right now, and for the last five plus months??? Has not our AM4 sockets been supported on B350, X370 and B450 mobo's? And won't they continue to be supported and maintained? Your article is misleading, because you are arguing a point that isn't even listed in the quotes you are using to support it. But you are writing as if it were.
In my opinion what AMD is doing is perfectly fine. They have continue to use the AM4 socket, just as they said they would. But you complaining that they will not continue to support antiquated mobo's is like those ridiculous people who STILL claim Windows XP should still be supported, and is the best operating system to use right now. Or the mindnumbing shortsightedness of people wanting to buy cutting edge phones, and still wanting them to include an antiquated headphone jack! MORONIC!!! What you are writing here just doesn't ring true nor reasonable. And for you to compare AMD, who has gone out of their way to give people soooooo much more for their dollars, to the CRIMINAL intel, is just wrong. All of the older mobo's will still be maintained just as they promised. But if you want the latest and greatest, you have to upgrade!!! And that is NOT unreasonable as they have allowed those older mobo's to be used with several gens of their new processors and chipsets. When was the last time intel allowed processor upgrades with the same socket for three gens? I was amazed that my 3900X would run so well on my older X370 mobo. That was a magnificent situation that I used for many months until I was able to upgrade to a X570 mobo.
I think AMD has bent over backwards to do for their customer base, and it's shallow thinking for you to complain about something that was never promised, and to make any comparisons to the criminally plagued intel.
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
This I do not know as 4000 series hasn't launched and reviewed yet, but as the author said, AMD must have a reason for axing support for 400 series chipsets on Zen3 CPU's. And that is probably not the size of BIOS, but something regarding either performance, compatibility and/or features on Zen3 CPU's.
This is a bit naive to assume there must be a reason besides business one.
They could totally provide support for 32 MB boards, but it would likely create some confusion among misinformed people. Situations like someone buying a similar board but with 16 MB BIOS could happen, and they would be irritated that it's not compatible.

However, I don't believe it's the actual reason, since those situations don't happen nearly as often (only if someone is buying outdated board with the newest CPU without understanding what he is doing). Most likely they were simply pressured by motherboard manufacturers, in order to sell more boards.

If they wanted, they likely could even provide support to X370 and B350 boards, but it would require too much effoty, and likely won't be worth it for AMD (since they'll need to maintain multiple AGESA versions most likely).

On the other hand, providing support for 32 MB boards should be very easy, they just don't want to do it (for some reason that wasn't mentioned anywhere).
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
Crap move by AMD, especially for those who bough 400 series boards.
No it's not. The "Crap move" was by those who bought a 400 series board in the last year. That was such a shortsighted and ridiculously dumb penny-pinching move. I can understand those who already had a 400 series board, using them with the newer processors. But , to go out and buy an older mobo or a brand new processor...? No. That's a horrible decision, and the writing was on the wall. So, when you are sitting there pointing your finger at AMD, take a closer look at the three fingers pointing back at you...
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
They have continue to use the AM4 socket, just as they said they would. But you complaining that they will not continue to support antiquated mobo's is like those ridiculous people who STILL claim Windows XP should still be supported, and is the best operating system to use right now.
This is honestly BS. There is no point using the same AM4 socket if you can't use it with your chipset. The only reason for it is upgradability, and they prevented this exact upgradability in this announcement. Could've as well call it the different name. Secondly, antiquated mobo's is a strong word. Some B450 motherboards were released in late 2019, AFTER X570 release. Many X470 boards are BETTER than a lot of more expensive X570 boards. They still work perfectly fine with Zen 2, and I'm pretty sure they will work just fine with Zen 3. Probably not B350 and X370 boards, but that's a whole different story. While Windows XP is 19(!) years old, it's in no way comparable.

Or the mindnumbing shortsightedness of people wanting to buy cutting edge phones, and still wanting them to include an antiquated headphone jack!

It's offtopic but I'll still reply. There are still a lot of great headphones using headphone jack, and a lot of people are using their phone while it charges, so yeah, people wanting headphone jack are more practical than "moronic". Sure it's not perfect design wise, but since when design became the main factor determnining which smartphone to buy? So another horrible comparison (or maybe a good one, on the contrary?)

And for you to compare AMD, who has gone out of their way to give people soooooo much more for their dollars, to the CRIMINAL intel, is just wrong.
No, it isn't. If you compare AMD to "CRIMINAL Intel" and they look similar, that's food for thought.

But if you want the latest and greatest, you have to upgrade!!!
I don't want the latest and greatest. I want to upgrade to Zen 3 when Zen 4 is released and Zen 3 prices drop. It will be a very reasonable purchase at that time, perfect to go with my very reasonable board.

And that is NOT unreasonable as they have allowed those older mobo's to be used with several gens of their new processors and chipsets.
What does it have to do with me? I got the newest and best midrange motherboard in May 2020: B450M Mortar MAX. There were zero better alternatives. X570 doesn't look great with Ryzen 5 3600 purchase, since it costs more than the processor itself, and my motherboard is even capable of supporting 3950x, so why would I pay more?

When was the last time intel allowed processor upgrades with the same socket for three gens?
You just said it's wrong to compare AMD to Intel and you did it after 2 sentences, smh.

I was amazed that my 3900X would run so well on my older X370 mobo. That was a magnificent situation that I used for many months until I was able to upgrade to a X570 mobo.
Great. Now I want similar situation with 4700 and my B450. Till I upgrade to B650 (or not).

You clearly idolize AMD too much, you need a reality check. It's just a corporation, and it's purpose is making money. If it won't react to the community outrage in any way, then it will just show that it doesn't really care about community, and not that much better than Intel (I'll still use their products if they are still better than Intel, but I'll be less happy to do it, and I'll switch the moment Intel provides better value, if this'll ever happen).

Intel never screwed up me personally. When I bought Interl processor I knew what I'd get. AMD screwed me once now (well, unless they change their mind on this whole situation and provide support at least for 32 MB BIOS boards). So at this point I don't see any reason to prefer AMD over Intel (besides practical ones, as in their processors are better right now).
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
2 weeks ago it was reasonable to expect that your B450 board (and X470) would support Ryzen 3000 and 4000.

Now those people are stuck with a board that can't support new processors coming out later this year. And if anyone wants to pick up a Ryzen 4000 compatible midrange board without paying the top-tier tax, you have no options.

Nothing.

This is crap.
"2 weeks ago it was reasonable to expect that your B450 board (and X470) would support Ryzen 3000 and 4000."
NO, it wasn't!!! There is NOTHING reasonable in that assumption. In fact, it's as shortsighted as shortsighted can be. Again, I can totally understand those who ALREADY had a 400 series mobo to have continued using it with the 3000 cpu's. BUT, those who went out and bought a cutting edge cpu, and also purchased an older mobo to run it on were asking for trouble. It was a stupid thing to do.
I ran my 3900X on a X370 mobo for many months. It ran perfectly. But when I decided to upgrade my mobo, I wasn't going to take a half measure. The mere consideration of it brought up all kinds of red flags in my mind. As it should have done for anyone who considered the same. So I opted for an X570 mobo. And so should have anyone who upgraded in the past year. There were plenty of cheap offerings to get the X570 boards. If people decided unintuitively against getting the X570 for a 400 series mobo, then they get what they deserve. It was a bonehead move. And bonehead moves have consequences.
 

Invictus Red

Posts: 9   +11
32 MB on the MOBO stuff

Wanna hear something crazy? There asre x570 boards with 16MB of EEPROM https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-I-AORUS-PRO-WIFI-rev-10/sp#sp

I've even seen a spec sheets (I'll dig up later) that show the "32MB" of BIOS storage is actually two separate 16MB chips.

I've even seen comments reporting that in certain BIOS updates, features had to be removed.

So there are mess ups all around and it'll be funny to watch how everyone in the industry adapts to this.

I think this is ultimately a bad move by AMD, the fact that there are even arguments shows it. It's exacerbated by the fact that Zen 3 is potentially the last generation on AM4, so... it's like why even bother with this, AMD? Depending on the IPC gains over even Zen 2, this would've been the PERFECT time to get people still holding on to their Zen+ chips and 450/470 mobos to upgrade before Zen 5/PCIE4.0/DDR5 requires new Mobos anyway.

I don't disagree with the aggravation. All I'm saying is that it's more nuanced than "AMD doesn't wanna do it!"
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
The "Crap move" was by those who bought a 400 series board in the last year. That was such a shortsighted and ridiculously dumb penny-pinching move. I can understand those who already had a 400 series board, using them with the newer processors. But , to go out and buy an older mobo or a brand new processor...? No. That's a horrible decision, and the writing was on the wall. So, when you are sitting there pointing your finger at AMD, take a closer look at the three fingers pointing back at you...
What about those who bought B450 THIS YEAR? Let's just look at B450 and X570. Decent B450 board costs 100$ in my country. Decent X570 board costs 260$ in my country. What is better about X570 to justify paying 160% more fot it? PCI-E 4.0? I don't have PCI-E 4.0 SSD and I don't plan to buy one. What else? VRM? VRM on my board are capable of supporting 16 core processor, 3950X. USB ports? Perhaps, but my board still has plenty of USB 3.0 and 3.1 ports for my needs.
Tell me one good reason to buy X570 over B450 in 2020 from technical point of view? My B450 board has 32 MB BIOS size as well, so it can fit any BIOS I want, so that's not an excuse either. There is not a single reason to buy X570 (besides the fact that it will support Zen 3).

But did AMD advertize Zen 3 support as one of the advantages of X570 boards? No, they didn't. It's their own fault they didn't. So now they shouldn't be surprised people blame them for it.

Oh, wait, I could've bought B550 instead, silly me. Or could I?
 

10thDmenxn

Posts: 85   +54
This is honestly BS. There is no point using the same AM4 socket if you can't use it with your chipset. The only reason for it is upgradability, and they prevented this exact upgradability in this announcement. Could've as well call it the different name. Secondly, antiquated mobo's is a strong word. Some B450 motherboards were released in late 2019, AFTER X570 release. Many X470 boards are BETTER than a lot of more expensive X570 boards. They still work perfectly fine with Zen 2, and I'm pretty sure they will work just fine with Zen 3. Probably not B350 and X370 boards, but that's a whole different story. While Windows XP is 19(!) years old, it's in no way comparable.



It's offtopic but I'll still reply. There are still a lot of great headphones using headphone jack, and a lot of people are using their phone while it charges, so yeah, people wanting headphone jack are more practical than "moronic". Sure it's not perfect design wise, but since when design became the main factor determnining which smartphone to buy? So another horrible comparison (or maybe a good one, on the contrary?)


No, it isn't. If you compare AMD to "CRIMINAL Intel" and they look similar, that's food for thought.


I don't want the latest and greatest. I want to upgrade to Zen 3 when Zen 4 is released and Zen 3 prices drop. It will be a very reasonable purchase at that time, perfect to go with my very reasonable board.


What does it have to do with me? I got the newest and best midrange motherboard in May 2020: B450M Mortar MAX. There were zero better alternatives. X570 doesn't look great with Ryzen 5 3600 purchase, since it costs more than the processor itself, and my motherboard is even capable of supporting 3950x, so why would I pay more?


You just said it's wrong to compare AMD to Intel and you did it after 2 sentences, smh.


Great. Now I want similar situation with 4700 and my B450. Till I upgrade to B650 (or not).

You clearly idolize AMD too much, you need a reality check. It's just a corporation, and it's purpose is making money. If it won't react to the community outrage in any way, then it will just show that it doesn't really care about community, and not that much better than Intel (I'll still use their products if they are still better than Intel, but I'll be less happy to do it, and I'll switch the moment Intel provides better value, if this'll ever happen).

Intel never screwed up me personally. When I bought Interl processor I knew what I'd get. AMD screwed me once now (well, unless they change their mind on this whole situation and provide support at least for 32 MB BIOS boards). So at this point I don't see any reason to prefer AMD over Intel (besides practical ones, as in their processors are better right now).
These are the worst responses I've ever read on here. I'm not trying to be offensive, but come on man. Nothing you wrote makes sense. I'm not going to address each one, as it would be redundant. But come on man. All of your responses are fringe. They don't actually make the points intended. Such as saying asking a singular question about intel is a comparison. It wasn't, it was just a question about intel. Yet, that didn't stop you from trying to skew it into your own narrative. Also, saying intel chips are better right now. They aren't!!! AMD chips beat the brakes off of intel chips in almost every measure, except certain games, which were designed specifically for intel chips. And even in those games, the AMD chips are within 10-20 fps, which once you get over 100 is imperceptible in the games.
So you keep making your buying mistakes, and I'll keep choosing the more successful route. Cheers!
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
I've even seen a spec sheets (I'll dig up later) that show the "32MB" of BIOS storage is actually two separate 16MB chips.
No, that's just a 16 MB board with 2 16 MB chips for safety (in case one fails). It's not he same as 32 MB board. But yeah, some X570 have 16 MB chips, and some B450 have 32 MB (actual 32, not just 2x16).

I think this is ultimately a bad move by AMD, the fact that there are even arguments shows it. It's exacerbated by the fact that Zen 3 is potentially the last generation on AM4, so... it's like why even bother with this, AMD? Depending on the IPC gains over even Zen 2, this would've been the PERFECT time to get people still holding on to their Zen+ chips and 450/470 mobos to upgrade before Zen 5/PCIE4.0/DDR5 requires new Mobos anyway.
Exactly, that's why people are so angry. Why cut support now of all times? Could've toughened it up and finish AM4 socket as the best in the history of consumer PCs.
 

Derael

Posts: 8   +18
Also, saying intel chips are better right now. They aren't!!! AMD chips beat the brakes off of intel chips in almost every measure, except certain games, which were designed specifically for intel chips.
Never said this. I straight up said that I'm using AMD and I will conitnue using it, as long as it's better than Intel. Only because it's chips are better than intel, not because it's less criminal. I'll use Intel if it'll be better at some point. Intel is only better at high end gaming, like you said, and it's not my intended usage.

All of your responses are fringe. They don't actually make the points intended. Such as saying asking a singular question about intel is a comparison. It wasn't, it was just a question about intel.
Okay, I'll stop there. Among all the technical issues I've addressed you focused on this completely unrelated one. Now it's obvious to me you are just a regular troll, I won't be responding anymore.
 

hikingmike

Posts: 6   +6
I have to say there are some bad, uninformed comments here making fun of people that have B450 motherboards.

it made no sense to buy a year old chipset when doing my build at the end of 2019
The "Crap move" was by those who bought a 400 series board in the last year. That was such a shortsighted and ridiculously dumb penny-pinching move.
You bought a motherboard who's chipset was a generation old when you bought it.
Now let's see: you bought 2019 CPU and were expecting to upgrade it to 2020 CPU. In 2020 you also want to use PCI Express tech from 2012
So on one way want new tech and another way you want to stick with something obsolete. No surprise this kind of combinations won't always work.

Well let me see.. when X570 was released it was priced far higher than B450 boards. I remember it was an $80-100 difference when I looked and that was comparing boards in ASRock's Pro4 line. X570 boards had a stupid little chipset fan and used an usual amount of power. Chipset fan... what is this the early 2000s? PCIe 4 was an advantage for X570, but nothing saturated PCIe 3 yet, and still doesn't except for maybe some new SSDs. It could be some time yet before PCIe 4 actually shows an advantage over PCIe 3 for video cards. So if you did a comparison, it didn't warrant the higher price from a PC builder's perspective.

The above commenters are claiming the B450 buyers made a choice that didn't make sense, but really the main thing they have to back that is news of AMD not supporting B450 boards with the upcoming Zen 3 CPUs. But that is new information. There was no guidance from AMD about this 6 months ago.

X570 may have been a new release, but did not make sense for most people. Now if AMD had made it clear with the X570 release that Zen 3 CPUs would not work on B450, then some of those people that bought B450 probably would have instead bought X570. Or if there had existed a B550 chipset in a similar price range to B450 and most of AMD's other motherboard options, then of course people should have chosen B550 over B450.

Personally this doesn't bother me since I keep my computers a long time, rarely upgrade the CPU, and I really didn't want a chipset fan. But let's not blame people that have a B450 motherboard. They had plenty of good reasons for that decision.
 
This is not possible anymore, because the 3000 series and 4000 series are good enough to crush each other. pricing has become difficult.
 

Aryassen

Posts: 158   +189
Just buy a new motherboard everytime you buy a new CPU...
[/QUOTE]

Well, it is certainly a possibility, however, it is not only the cost of the board that concerns me. With a CPU upgrade, cooler down, CPU out, new CPU in, cooler back in, 15 minutes tops with coffee. With a mobo change, you take the whole damn thing to pieces, maybe re-route your cables, maybe not, then comes the BIOS tinkering, then you will try to bring your old windows over (last time I tried, it didn't work, so I am not filled with confidence), maybe it works, maybe it's another xx bucks, then new drivers (chipset, lan, audio, whatnot), and "n" number of restarts. Been there, done that, quite a few times, it may be a straight sail and done under an hour, it may be a whole afternoon and the evening (both happened). Then there is the joy of resale, which again may be a simple, or a hassle, depending on a lot of factors.

For me, changing a CPU is infinitely simpler than changing the board (which btw I have selected carefully and has everything I need, while the new board wouldn't add anything mentionable on top of that), so saying that just "pop in a new board" is simply not going to cut it for me (and not because I can't afford the extra costs of the new mobo).

Again, I won't fall on my sword if 4000 series are not supported, but still would feel somewhat disappointed.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,464   +6,148
Exactly. They were just expecting too much support when buying obsolete motherboard. Also they could still put 16-core CPU into that motherboard so there is really not much problem.

Also there is no actual proof that AMD is only one behind this. Considering how much crap motherboard makers got when making BIOS updates "too slowly" for Zen2 on older motherboards, it's no wonder if they just asked AMD not to support Zen3 to avoid all of that. Because in case AMD offers support, motherboard makers are expected to make Zen3 BIOS and no manufacturer wants to be worse than competitor. And then we have another Zen2 crapstorm in hands. Only AMD's lack of support can prevent that.

He wasn't agreeing with you, he was making fun of your point with sarcasm.
 
I will never understand the logic behind looking to cheap out on motherboards when building a PC. I mean, people spend 750$ on a CPU, and $89 on a board, and then complain that the board isn't supported anymore, really?... under that logic, one can presume that longevity wasn't the priority and the motherboard is irrelevant, then you shouldn't have any problems in swapping that $89 B350/B450 board for another $89 B550 board.

By the way, when you cheap on a motherboard is because you're not planning on staying on the platform for long. At the end of 2019, both series 300 and 400 were already supporting 3 generations of CPU (three good performing generations), also them being essentialy the same chipset launched in 2016-2017. It was pretty obvious that they were close to the end of the road.

In my book, there's two components that you can't go cheap when building a PC: PSU and motherboard, and it's pretty obvious why.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,464   +6,148
I will never understand the logic behind looking to cheap out on motherboards when building a PC. I mean, people spend 750$ on a CPU, and $89 on a board, and then complain that the board isn't supported anymore, really?... under that logic, one can presume that longevity wasn't the priority and the motherboard is irrelevant, then you shouldn't have any problems in swapping that $89 B350/B450 board for another $89 B550 board.

By the way, when you cheap on a motherboard is because you're not planning on staying on the platform for long. At the end of 2019, both series 300 and 400 were already supporting 3 generations of CPU (three good performing generations), also them being essentialy the same chipset launched in 2016-2017.

In my book, there's two components that you can't go cheap when building a PC: PSU and motherboard, and it's pretty obvious why.

1. Many B450 motherboards were in the $120 price range

2. We aren't talking about just $750 CPUs, we are talking about the entire 4000 series lineup from $80 to whatever.

3. The price of a product is irrelevant. If it runs well without potential issues, there's no need to spend a crap ton of money. There's no technical reason B450 motherboards would have with the new CPUs. Steve already testes that $750 CPU you talk of on B350 and B450 motherboards, it runs perfectly fine.
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,341   +1,884
I have to say there are some bad, uninformed comments here making fun of people that have B450 motherboards.






Well let me see.. when X570 was released it was priced far higher than B450 boards. I remember it was an $80-100 difference when I looked and that was comparing boards in ASRock's Pro4 line. X570 boards had a stupid little chipset fan and used an usual amount of power. Chipset fan... what is this the early 2000s? PCIe 4 was an advantage for X570, but nothing saturated PCIe 3 yet, and still doesn't except for maybe some new SSDs. It could be some time yet before PCIe 4 actually shows an advantage over PCIe 3 for video cards. So if you did a comparison, it didn't warrant the higher price from a PC builder's perspective.

The above commenters are claiming the B450 buyers made a choice that didn't make sense, but really the main thing they have to back that is news of AMD not supporting B450 boards with the upcoming Zen 3 CPUs. But that is new information. There was no guidance from AMD about this 6 months ago.

X570 may have been a new release, but did not make sense for most people. Now if AMD had made it clear with the X570 release that Zen 3 CPUs would not work on B450, then some of those people that bought B450 probably would have instead bought X570. Or if there had existed a B550 chipset in a similar price range to B450 and most of AMD's other motherboard options, then of course people should have chosen B550 over B450.

Personally this doesn't bother me since I keep my computers a long time, rarely upgrade the CPU, and I really didn't want a chipset fan. But let's not blame people that have a B450 motherboard. They had plenty of good reasons for that decision.

A chipset fan I've not heard once the 6 in the months I've been on this motherboard. Everyone complaining the fan is thinking about PC's from the 90 and that isn't the case anymore. Those using B450 are budget builders and have no intention of spending the money on highend boards. AMD saying Zen 3 would be 500 series only may have converted some but not all why because in those buyers mind Price is the most important factor over features.
 
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hikingmike

Posts: 6   +6
under that logic, one can presume that longevity wasn't the priority and the motherboard is irrelevant

Did you know earlier that X570 would have more longevity than B450? We actually didn't know until now. If you look at motherboard features and B450 has what you need, performs equally, and costs less, then why go for X570?

I personally saved money on a motherboard with B450 over X570, and put that money toward the other components. I'm satisfied with my decisions and don't usually upgrade the CPU, but I'd like to defend these people. I do consider motherboards by features/performance/price and I will research but generally don't care what it is along as it works properly and has the features I want. If you think by workload, does the motherboard really matter much for gaming, or encoding video? CPU/video card matter a lot more. Power supply would be the same way except so many of them out there are crap and die, so I do stick with a trusted brand on that.

I mean, people spend 750$ on a CPU, and $89 on a board, and then complain that the board isn't supported anymore, really?

So you're saying people should base their expectation of support on the cost of the motherboard? I get the feeling that this is a chance for the people that generally spend more on a motherboard to pile on and say they were right. They now get to justify it to themselves.

"I will never understand the logic"
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 

hikingmike

Posts: 6   +6
Everyone complaining the fan is thinking about PC's from the 90 and that isn't the case anymore.
True (for me) :) I'd say early 2000s also. I remember you could find some boards with a decent heatsink and no fan, but others had the tiny noisy fan. Well that's good to hear no yours, and hopefully most X570s are like that. I did read about loud fans on X570 though. Some people said their chipset fans sounded like they were at 100% continuously. Others said they could hear theirs ramp up every time they did something. Some said they were quiet. I just really didn't want to take that chance.
Those using B450 are budget builders and have no intention of spending the money on highend boards.
True (for me). I guess I would have had no choice to spend more if there was not any B450. Or if B450 didn't have a feature I needed but X570 did. I would have built the computer either way. So I don't see where you are going with this. Maybe you imply more with "budget builders" than I understand. I have a B450 board with a 3700X and create 4k videos with it, plus gaming and other tasks. It's fantastic.
AMD saying Zen 3 would be 500 series only may have converted some but not all why because in those buyers mind Price is the most important factor over features.
True (for me). I probably still would have saved the money and made the same choice. But I would have had the choice... do I save money and remove a potential upgrade option? And I did consider that I didn't know for sure there would be an upgrade option. Some people might choose the other way as you say. The way it is we didn't have the choice.
 

bluetooth fairy

Posts: 160   +102
There's an opinion that there's something that AMD has learned from Zen+ and Zen2 launch (upgrade kits, BIOS ROM limitations etc), and they chose the right moment to announce what we are discussing now. Or pretending to do discussion, because mostly it's emotions with some portion of trolling and sarcasm, etc.
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 2,341   +1,884
True (for me) :) I'd say early 2000s also. I remember you could find some boards with a decent heatsink and no fan, but others had the tiny noisy fan. Well that's good to hear no yours, and hopefully most X570s are like that. I did read about loud fans on X570 though. Some people said their chipset fans sounded like they were at 100% continuously. Others said they could hear theirs ramp up every time they did something. Some said they were quiet. I just really didn't want to take that chance.

True (for me). I guess I would have had no choice to spend more if there was not any B450. Or if B450 didn't have a feature I needed but X570 did. I would have built the computer either way. So I don't see where you are going with this. Maybe you imply more with "budget builders" than I understand. I have a B450 board with a 3700X and create 4k videos with it, plus gaming and other tasks. It's fantastic.

True (for me). I probably still would have saved the money and made the same choice. But I would have had the choice... do I save money and remove a potential upgrade option? And I did consider that I didn't know for sure there would be an upgrade option. Some people might choose the other way as you say. The way it is we didn't have the choice.

Good reply clear and level headed.

I'm using a Asus Prime x570 Pro which I consider middle tier from Asus and not super highend. Also using AIO cooling so my system is very quiet if anyone would notice chipset fan making noise it would be me. And I can't see how anyone using a Massive Tower Air cooler would be able to hear it.

No one really knew where Zen 3 was going to fall compability wise because AMD didn't say anything until now. People that took the word of reviewers and off the internet and not from an offical source well sadly that is on you and hopefully lesson learned.

To me this isn't a huge deal for those below the 500 series board you can go up to Zen 2 then sit there until Zen 4 and DDR5 / PCIe 5.0 which will require a new board anyways. Which looks to be a 2022 launch and we are already almost 6 months into 2020. Your current system isn't going stop working all of a sudden because you can't slap a Zen 3 cpu into the socket.