AMD says Ryzen was a "worst case scenario," Threadripper built by engineers in their spare...

By midian182 · 73 replies
Sep 7, 2017
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  1. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    "Guess what I did NOT buy skylake stuff. Not enough gain at the time to even worth the time for consideration."

    No one here cares what you buy, this point was about issues with new platforms. You complained about Ryzen's issues so I pointed out the obvious issues intel has had recently and in the past. I'm guessing that you don't have anything on point?

    "
    To quote you...
    "Assumptions!"
    "

    /facepalm

    Do you even know what Assumptions are? These are my words you qouted

    "So your spending more money, more space, and more electricity on the same amount of power and your going to tell me no one cares? Nope, you must be the only one who thinks that heat won't be an issue during the summer or that space won't be an issue. This isn't even considering that you have to buy accompanying parts for each computer as well. There is zero incentive for doing things your way and methinks you've never actually done it."

    and your response

    "Gaming comes first for me. My old machines all have all the necessary bits made up of hand-me-downs (from memory, cpu, mouse, kb, case etc.), from when I upgrade my main machine, and heat and electricity doesn't amount to much for a overnight run every now and then. I rip the blue-rays throw the content thru handbrake to compress and then put the mp4 video on the phone/tablet for the road trip. I'm sure I am not the only person that has done very mundane things like this. If I got several movies to do, I got several old machines already sitting there."

    I was providing a more efficient method, I couldn't care less about what your running. There is no point in my quote where an assumption is even made

    "I cost me essentially nothing other than a little electricity to do that."

    That's not true at all because those parts are worth money. You essentially are keeping ill apt parts for the job when it would be simple to eBay them and get something better.

    "What you've clearly shown is that you just make the assumption that everyone has workloads like you. Most people don't need a render farm like you. And it does NOT pay to spend for money for under utilized cores and threads."

    LOL! You just said you use handbrake to encode, WHICH DIRECTLY BENEFITS FROM MORE CORES. You are literally the dumbest person I have ever seen on TechSpot. No one is making assumptions but you and you just have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  2. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    cough, cherrypicking, cough. Oh wait, you don't know what that means.
     
  3. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 2,003   +661

    Wake me when you learn how to read and comprehend.
     
  4. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 2,003   +661

    I think it's obvious to anyone with a working brain. The two most common gaming resolutions are 768 and 1080. The two most popular core counts are two and four. Ryzen is a multithreaded CPU. Consumers don't need that many cores for youtube, email and browsing. Sorry to burst your bubble, but while I have actually read and retained what I've read, yours is reset after every AMD launch. Sorry, but Ryzen isn't the answer to everyone's problems. Look at the core count changes on Steam Hardware survey. Look at best selling CPU's at Amazon. Wake the hell up. OMG, I'm tired of you AMD puppets crying about price/performance and competition, when at this point, the only competition AMD Is bringing is at the high end. That's a cool start, but that's all it is.
     
    AntiShill likes this.
  5. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    /RepliesWithmoreSalt

    LOL;) You keep coming back so you must like it.
     
  6. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    When Tom's comes to the conclusion after a full survey of all the various VR apps, and you call it cherry picking because you do NOT like the conclusions:

    "Frankly, though, if your primary focus is VR gaming, the Core i7-7700K really can’t be beaten. It’s a top performer and $90 cheaper than the Ryzen. You could pick up the -7700K and a GeForce GTX 1080 for less than a Core i9, leaving money left over for a couple of games."

    Notice "cheaper than the Ryzen". Not my words but Tom's too. I just simply state Ryzen is overpriced.

    You are making assumptions and you do not even know it. You make assumption about what efficiency means. Faster is not more efficient BTW. How is more efficient money wise to not make use of old gear? My old gaming machines are turned loose to do all kinds of duty. More cores help handbrake, so that is why the 2500K is better than the core2duo at it. But I am not going to spend any kind of money for a rendering setup. I don't plan on selling my old gear on e-bay either, when they are too old, the old gear goes to help my parents, in-laws, friends, that will still find the stuff useful. That is how you can be more efficient and frugal with money and resources.
     
  7. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 2,003   +661

    Calls cherry picking, but doesn't say why.....
    That's probably not the best comment you want to make on a tech site. Just sayin.
     
    AntiShill likes this.
  8. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 2,003   +661

    If you're just lonely and looking for someone to talk to, try wccftech comment section. You'd fit right in over there I promise you. Good luck.
     
  9. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    /facepalm

    No, it's cherry picking when you show one image

    Also DERP! Tom's was comparing the 1800X to the 7700K. Why would anyone spend more on the 1800X when they can get the same thing in the 1700 for much less? But I'm guessing you didn't know that.

    "You are making assumptions and you do not even know it. You make assumption about what efficiency means. Faster is not more efficient BTW. How is more efficient money wise to not make use of old gear? My old gaming machines are turned loose to do all kinds of duty. More cores help handbrake, so that is why the 2500K is better than the core2duo at it."

    And yet you ignore my suggestion to use even more cored xeon processors. Jesus you are polarized.

    Also who in the F said anything about "efficient money wise" For a guy how likes to parrot you sure can't comprehend what your saying.

    "That is how you can be more efficient and frugal with money and resources."

    No, that's how you waste money from your electricity bill. By the time these parts are that old your parents will already have a phone that runs faster and uses much less electricity.

    #JumpedTheGunAgain
    #BlamesOthersForThingsJustDoneInTheSameThread

    I guess for your saying something and then making sure it doesn't already exist is like where's waldo, you've got no idea.
     
  10. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    #EpicSalt
     
  11. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    Thanks for proving that you were making assumptions. You assume your definition of efficiency is only one that matters, but the reality is you are NOT God and you do NOT get to decide.

    Really? I just gave away a Core2Quad Q8300 with a GTX460 to my nephews. They are so happy they can actually replace their old AMD64 with a 8600GT. Nothing beats free. I am NOT going to spend a red cent on overpriced Xeon, Ryzen or whatever else for more cores for rendering. $1000 spent for build like that make nosense, and $1000 of electricity will last more than 10 years of 2500K usage. BTW my nephews already want to claim dibs for the 2500K, I tell them it might be 4 years before they can get that. I hoping by then they will be old enough to work and build their own by then. In any case, I budget for gaming first. When the gear gets old they start doing other duty. Repurposing old gear is the most efficient way for money and resource use. You can't beat 0 dollars. The performance per dollar for 0 dollars is a divide by zero error and will beat your xeon, ryzens, etc. by infinite amounts.

    In really simple terms, AMD (Ryzen and/or Vega) is overpriced because they are NOT providing enough value to convince enough people to switch, and to overcome the costs and risks of transition.
     
  12. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    HAHA

    That's YOU making assumptions. Those are YOUR words.

    Wow, I bet if I replace my name with yours you would defend everything I had said as your own...

    "$1000 spent for build like that make nosense, and $1000 of electricity will last more than 10 years of 2500K usage."

    Where do you get your pricing from? When was the last time you even checked PC part pricing?

    "BTW my nephews already want to claim dibs for the 2500K, I tell them it might be 4 years before they can get that."

    You'd be better off selling right now seeing as OC motherboards for that socket go for over $150. But no, you insist on keeping the wrong parts for the wrong job.

    "Repurposing old gear is the most efficient way for money and resource use. You can't beat 0 dollars"

    It's not zero dollars, you just already paid for it. Derp...

    Thank god you aren't my accountant, I'd be loosing allot of money by writing off older computer parts with an inventory value of "free" LOL.

    But yes, you can hang onto your old computer parts and I'll cash them in. Most of the time I get 90% or more of the money needed to get the upgraded part. And guess what? If I need a different part for a different job I can go buy that because money is liquid, parts are not.

    "In really simple terms, AMD (Ryzen and/or Vega) is overpriced because they are NOT providing enough value to convince enough people to switch, and to overcome the costs and risks of transition."

    Yes, no one is buying it... That's why it dominated the #1 top spot on Amazon for two months and nearly half the processors on their right now are Ryzen. But nope, no one is making the switch..

    Also costs and risks of transition? There are none, this just shows you have no idea what you're talking about. I had a 5820K, upgraded to a 1700. I actually made more money selling the 5820k then I spent buying the 1700. I didn't even have to re-install windows. It was less than an hour process. So the costs and risks of transition? You could actually make money by switching and there are zero risks, that is your fantasy because you've never used Ryzen.
     
    Puiu likes this.
  13. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,555   +1,000

    Are you going to confirm what everybody else already knows? That high end desktop PCs are in the minority? What does that have to do with buying the best CPU for your money? Are you telling me that tech-savvy people (the ones who buy components to build their own PCs) will intentionally buy the weaker CPU because they don't need more?

    And I did look at Amazon, your point is?
    Does this look like 80% to you? https://gyazo.com/fbbc2366f64bad73170bb525981c50e1
    Did you even know that the 7700k is not always in 1st position and that Ryzen CPUs are sometimes in 1st on Amazon? It pretty much debunks your 20% theory pretty hard.

    "Look at the core count changes on Steam Hardware survey."
    I did look and the fact that ppl are dumping their 2 core CPUs for 4 core CPUs is nothing new. It's been happening for quite some time now. If you look at the speeds you'll notice that 74% are sub 3.3GHz CPUs and only 5.7% are faster than 3.7GHz. This puts the average price of the desktop CPUs well below 200$ and that a very high percentage of the gamers are doing it on laptops not desktops (which also explains the 768 and 1080p screens). 4 core laptops are also fairly cheap now compared to 3-4 years ago.

    People buy what they think is best for their money. They can do the math themselves. I have no idea what "problems" you think people have, but your statement that "Consumers don't need that many cores for youtube, email and browsing" just doesn't make sense. Do you buy less for the same amount of money because you don't need it?
    People who only need a PC for youtube, email and browsing usually buy a laptop and that's currently 100% Intel territory. (at least until AMD can make a decent mobile CPU/APU)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  14. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,555   +1,000

    Yes we call that cherry picking. I can also go pick the twitch/youtube streaming results (which are more relevant than a set of VR tests which proved that both Ryzen and Intel can hit the required FPS mark for high end VR) and show that Intel is crap, but I'm not doing that.
    And you want to know why? Because I'm already making perfectly good arguments while using Intel's strong point "gaming". (and mostly because you people seem to think that gaming is everything and that's the only metric we should use to compare CPUs)
    I can understand buying the 7700k. It has 8 blazing fast threads which are more than enough to last you the next 4-5 years. But when you say that 4 threads is acceptable when you have the option to get 12... I can only facepalm. Both highly threaded applications and games are here already and it will only get better in the future with Intel also increasing the core counts soon.
     
  15. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    Paid for the 6 years ago. The 2500K is going on 7 years soon. I am spending 0 dollars now for it, and there is no good reason to spend $1000 to build a rendering box. I don't want a rendering box or some dedicated workstation at home. I got plenty of that sort of stuff at work, the company can pay for those build servers. The 2500K is still serviceable as game machine with the old gtx970 for the nephews when they come and visit anyways. If you can't understand how spending 0 dollars is good thing, that is why your trying to hard to convince lemmings to jump over the cliff with you.
     
  16. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    Just because you call it cherry picking for Ryzen not leading in VR for wide range of VR applications, does NOT make it cherry picking.

    And gaming performance comes first. It is your own fault you do NOT like a metric like that. But you only have AMD to blame for doing the bait-and-switch with all the hype directed at gamers. AMD should have made it very clear it was about computer and servers, but they did NOT. So we have every right to protest their deceitful bait-and-switch marketing.
     
  17. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,555   +1,000

    Bait and switch? They delivered what they promised with Ryzen. I have no idea what the hell you think they "switched", but you have the promotional materials online (do you want me to link you the slides?):
    - similar or better than Core i7-6900K multithreading performance
    - modern AM4 platform
    - cheap high performance 8 core CPUs
    - high quality streaming without dropped frames
    - 4K gaming
    - 52% IPC uplift compared to excavator
    - good OEM support
    Before launch we already had a good idea about Ryzen: it will be a multithreading monster and that the IPC and clock speeds will be lower than the 7700k (Kaby Lake). Outside of a few people on reddit, nobody expected Ryzen to be better at gaming. The launch gaming results were also severely limited by early drivers/bios, RAM compatibility and lack of optimisations for games (for example, Rise of the Tomb Raider saw a 30% or more increase in FPS for Ryzen since then), problems which have been mostly fixed with a lot of updates/patches.

    In the end you just can't seem to find a proper reason to make others hate AMD, but you sure are trying really hard. You are trying everything: cherry picking results, nitpicking, lies, misinformation, misdirection, avoiding answering the real questions, etc.

    You keep showing pictures of 1 or 2 games, but when I mention the 30 games that were tested on Techspot and show you that the performance of Ryzen did indeed increase you just close your eyes and post another picture from an old benchmark (or you posted the destiny 2 one which is currently broken with SMT not working at all for AMD and other "beta" bugs).

    You are either incapable of looking at the overall picture or just intentionally choosing to ignore it.

    " gaming performance comes first" --> then why are you picking the 7600k over the 1600? you like high average FPS with very low mins? you like to pay for expensive coolers to OC it enough to compete with the stock cooler of the 1600? that's just funny :D - buy the 7700k if you have that kind of money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  18. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,908   +1,107

    You were the one who said you encode handbrake videos with the 2500K overnight.... now it's a gaming machine? Keep your story straight man.
     
  19. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    Are you auditioning for AMD marketing job, like the Don W. the AMD shill foremrly at Tom's Hardware? Too bad he got your dream job. You are the one putting out "lies, misinformation, misdirection, avoiding answering the real questions". Tell me Ryzen delivered better gaming performance without qualifiers/modifiers? Is that a categorical Yes or NO?

    BTW what the heck is "good OEM support" other than typical AMD marketing speak? LOL.
     
  20. AntiShill

    AntiShill TS Booster Posts: 190   +48

    What I can't repurpsoe an old gaming machine on the fly for 0 dollars spent to do handbrake overnight? Obviously you do NOT know how to maximize you dollars. You must go spend $1000 in AMD donations for threadripper to do the same thing. LOL.
     
  21. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 2,555   +1,000

    I already have my dream job since I work in IT as a programmer.
    And the answer is yes. Just because the 7700k is better at gaming doesn't make the other Intel CPUs the best option. Until Coffee Lake comes stay away from the i5 and i3 CPUs if you want to build a new PC. Ryzen is just better at those price points.

    Why are you laughing that I copy-pasted that? I did it because you didn't seem to know about it (or just ignoring them)
    I just showed just how much you were wrong about the "bait and switch" thing. Something which further reinforces what I said before: you are just a hater that likes to lie and when someone posts proof, you just ignore it and move on to your next "topic" until someone proves you wrong there too.

    And you are laughing about the "OEM" statement but unbeknownst to you the major OEMs are working together with AMD again to distribute Ryzen and Threadripper products. TR is by the way reported to be outselling the i9 by quite a lot. I bet that makes you mad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  22. Strawman

    Strawman TS Booster Posts: 110   +92

    Sadly for you, I'm not the one repeating it. It's the majority of the reviewrs. Pc gamer / DF, even in that very link you posted it has it in the very title "i5's fading grasp". You also keep forgetting that not everything is about gaming. Sure, in most games the 2 cpus are pretty much tied. Sometimes i5 wins, sometimes the R5. But the fact is, there are games where you don't get playable performance with an i5 (bf1 64mp / crysis 3 etc), and that's not the case with the R5 1600.

    But besides gaming, the R5 1600 has roughly double the CPU horsepower compared to the i5 for the same price. That's HUGE. It's double the freaking horsepower. DOUBLE. You can't be in your right mind and call that overpriced. That's just insanity. Heck, it has 25-30% more total CPU power than the 7700k, for 70% of the costs. The value is insane. Period. Facts are facts, opinions are not facts.
     
  23. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 1,734   +643

    As I see it, AMD has not colored their marketing for Zen. Seems to me like you are back in bulldozer days. If you love Intel, be happy they have once again have competition that will bring their pricing in line.

    Besides, it sounds to me like you believed any AMD hype about Zen. After the bullcrap fiasco, anyone at all would have been unwise to jump on that bandwagon until the reviews were in, IMO.

    Basically, in anything but gaming or single threaded benchmarks, Zen is the clear leader and value buy. At this point, though, the 7700K is not ahead by substantial margins.

    If you really do not like what AMD is doing and contend that their marketing is deceitful, I am sure there is a lawyer somewhere to take your case.
     
  24. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Addict Posts: 165   +120

    Don't bother arguing with AntiShill, he's simply an AMD hater.

    Considering AMD's situation over the past years, Ryzen is practically a miracle. I wouldn't call it a worse case scenario though, but there is definitely room for improvement, and I think it's quite straightforward since they know their weaknesses.

    Anyone arguing that Ryzen is not the best value right now is out of their mind.
     

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