Apple: iMessage on Android 'will hurt us more than help us'

CrisisDog

Posts: 234   +130
I would easily pay a (small) subscription price to have iMessage on another platform than Apple. My kids and wife use iOS devices, but I'm locked into Android due to other reasons, mostly the company I work for. I'm not going to carry around two devices, and thus Apple has lost another opportunity to bring me in.
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 52   +46
I would easily pay a (small) subscription price to have iMessage on another platform than Apple. My kids and wife use iOS devices, but I'm locked into Android due to other reasons, mostly the company I work for. I'm not going to carry around two devices, and thus Apple has lost another opportunity to bring me in.
I’d like all my Microsoft, Google and Apple services to work seamlessly on every device. But they’re never gonna do it when control of the platform is their goal, alas.

It used to torque my jaw when Google would charge me for Apps (now Workspace) but then break my Windows Phone. It’s all part of the fun of the tech biz...
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 290   +239
Apple are probably lucky - that their main base is USA - these emails are perfect for the EU to go after them . The EU will come down more and more on this stuff - they are not interested in whiny baby tears - they can not be stopped , they can not be reason with .
Secondly some of the iphone supporters comments here are perverse rejoicing in Apples control over them , restricted them , milking them at will - yes you may be a shareholder - but have some pride - tech just wants to be free - I said it before and will say it again Stockholm Syndrome
Mummy knows best
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 52   +46
Apple are probably lucky - that their main base is USA - these emails are perfect for the EU to go after them . The EU will come down more and more on this stuff - they are not interested in whiny baby tears - they can not be stopped , they can not be reason with .
The EU doesn’t quite have the power on this that I suspect they wish they had, especially with the new US administration saying they’d target European airlines, manufacturers, banks and aerospace companies if Brussels continues its attacks on US tech leaders. I doubt Brussels would risk a Washington-mandated breakup of Airbus, Volkswagen, Stellantis or IAG over some Apple emails, especially since all of those European enterprises exist in their present form because Washington declined to apply a rigorous interpretation of US monopoly law.
 
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Loadedaxe

Posts: 37   +48
Its Apples service (not software), they can do what they want with their platform. Epics stance on this is weak. If Epic wants to open a can of whipass on Apple they better do better than this.

 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 320   +207
Epic was baiting them to remove app so they could claim Apple is abusing app sale monopoly they gave to themself that was not formed through competition on open market.


1. Epic willingly and knowingly breaks Apple's ToS
2. Apple says "don't do that, you know the rule book"
3. Epic does it anyways
4. Apple removes Epic from iOS store as a consequence of ToS violation
5. Epic then claims Apple has monopolistic practices, limiting competition from those like Epic who refuse to adhere to policies that have been there for many years; and are throwing a fit in any way because they got called out for actively breaking policies.

Man, the timeline is clear. And until Epic began trying to play shortcuts with the world's largest mobile walled garden, everything was just fine.

And I don't even like Apple.
 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 320   +207
If it is monopoly or near-monopoly with intention of vendor lock-in then yes it is illegal in many country. offer product to restricted market is not necessarily vendor lock-in. when email like this then there is proof of vendor lock-in.


So it's now a crime to develop successful software for only 1 platform? Since when?!?!!?

Does Microsoft then have to port Halo to Playstation? And Sony have to port God of War to XBOX?

Complete nonsense...
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 312   +297
So it's now a crime to develop successful software for only 1 platform? Since when?!?!!?

Does Microsoft then have to port Halo to Playstation? And Sony have to port God of War to XBOX?

Complete nonsense...
If they aren't stupid they would exclusives serve no purpose other than gimping your sales when you mostly break even on the hardware anyways.
 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 320   +207
Vendor lock-in does not mean you are unable to leave. it just mean there is intentional high cost or making difficult to switch, such that people would be less likely to leave. it can still being illegal in many country. Epic goal is to show Apple is illegally having monopoly in app sale by abusing position as os vendor because they want to open their own app store on ios.

Absolutely no one is forced to use iOS. Apple emphatically does not have a monopoly. Epic are only trying to convince a judge that they do so they don’t have to pay the fees to them for selling their products in the marketplace.
 

George Keech

Posts: 24   +29
So it's now a crime to develop successful software for only 1 platform? Since when?!?!!?

Does Microsoft then have to port Halo to Playstation? And Sony have to port God of War to XBOX?

Complete nonsense...
I would say there are a few differences for console I would also say if you look at the numbers people have no issues moving from one platform to another each generation, you don't really see that in the Phone industry.

Its a bit of a poisoned chalice I 100% think Apples are a bit anti-competitive but would also argue most of the worlds revenue comes from Anti-competitive firms Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook but I think its so wide ranging and the negative impact from effectively dismantle these Monopolies would outweigh the good.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 290   +239
The EU doesn’t quite have the power on this that I suspect they wish they had, especially with the new US administration saying they’d target European airlines, manufacturers, banks and aerospace companies if Brussels continues its attacks on US tech leaders. I doubt Brussels would risk a Washington-mandated breakup of Airbus, Volkswagen, Stellantis or IAG over some Apple emails, especially since all of those European enterprises exist in their present form because Washington declined to apply a rigorous interpretation of US monopoly law.


some good points
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,479   +3,315
TechSpot Elite
So it's now a crime to develop successful software for only 1 platform? Since when?!?!!?

Does Microsoft then have to port Halo to Playstation? And Sony have to port God of War to XBOX?

Complete nonsense...
It's not about that. The argument is that Apple is intetionally creating an unfair barrier that they use to keep ppl in their ecosystem (like intentionally making it hard or imposible to move your data from apple to anywhere else) which in turn gives them the power to enforce things like: only safari engine for browsers, only apple pay in apps, etc.

In my personal opinion (which is actually a fact) both companies are scummy and anti-consumer.
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 210   +312
I would easily pay a (small) subscription price to have iMessage on another platform than Apple. My kids and wife use iOS devices, but I'm locked into Android due to other reasons, mostly the company I work for. I'm not going to carry around two devices, and thus Apple has lost another opportunity to bring me in.

Honestly I don't get why people even use iMessage or texting via phone numbers in the first place. A good 80% of my communication is via Snapchat, Hangouts, or facebook messenger.

Doesn't help that iMessage only has a client for Mac OS and not windows, which really hinders anyone that needs a machine to do real work. I cant be the only one who prefers to chat via their PC while at work.
 

CommonSenseTech

Posts: 52   +46
Epic was baiting them to remove app so they could claim Apple is abusing app sale monopoly they gave to themself that was not formed through competition on open market.
If that was their intention, they’re going to need to open up their app too and allow competitors to access their servers, content and so on if they get their way.

As is usually the case in these arguments “the standard applies to you but not to me” is the rule of the day. That’s how you get Google using its Search and mobile OS dominance to crush Windows Phone by breaking common services, while later getting Google and its allies complaining that Apple isn’t sufficiently open.
 
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CommonSenseTech

Posts: 52   +46
Doesn't help that iMessage only has a client for Mac OS and not windows, which really hinders anyone that needs a machine to do real work. I cant be the only one who prefers to chat via their PC while at work.
Wow, I’ve been using a Mac as my primary machine for work (and self) for about eight years now. I was getting paychecks and all, despite not doing any real work!

You should try it yourself. Why use a PC and do Real Work when you can get paid to not work with a Mac as your primary machine?! ;P
 

Sean T

Posts: 41   +62
TechSpot Elite
Not everyone can "just move out of city". Those who cannot are pretty much trapped with one shop.

Problem is that iCrap and Android has around 100% market share of smartphone operating systems. You want to sell something on smartphone, you basically have two choices. "Agreeing" is not that voluntary.

Microsoft had around 99% market share on PC operating systems and was bundling Internet Explorer with Windows. Unsurprisingly it went not so good from Microsoft's view even consumers had other choices and consumers "agreed" to get Internet Explorer when they bought Windows...

Anti-consumer laws exists for reason.
As I've mentioned on other forums post related to this topic, this is a case that will set long term precedent and will impact multiple industries. Depending on its outcome, you could send waves through every marketplace. The end results of this could force markets to allow third party markets to be published on their store. And remember, those criticizing Apple should also know that Epic is suing Google for the SAME exact thing. That case has been put on hold pending the results of this Apple vs Epic case. Epic wants to bypass Apple/Google's store by offering a third party store (Epic app) to sell games/skins/vBucks without paying for the app store. I think Apple will prevail primarily, but I do wonder if in store apps should be a smaller fee. Not sure the courts will get involved at that level but I suspect this case will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

It's not easy for anyone to move out of any city or ecosystem without consequences. Think of all the apps you will lose access to if you move from Google to Apple. All those paid for apps, GONE. But is that not different than moving from iMac to Windows or vice versa? Almost all platforms suffer from this and you will lose & gain by switching ecosystems.
 

terzaerian

Posts: 766   +1,097
Why would anyone be concerned over consumers of Apple products getting rinsed by Apple?
Because Apple distorts the landscape of the industry through its mere existence, the same way Epic distorts the landscape of PC gaming by buying out exclusives.

I only wish both parties could lose a lawsuit.
 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 320   +207
I use both mac and windows so if one doesn't meeting my needs for a task I can use other one. It is not matter of leaving one to go to the other. I am just having both. but I am not going to carry 2 phone even though I am having enough capacity in purse. It would require extra mobile service. It would being too crazy.

I am agree with you this case will set precedent that many people are not anticipate. People need to look past who the company are and consider only the situation. It does not matter if both company are "sleaze" and only matter what is fair and just and good for society. Otherwise the future may be a wrecking.


As I've mentioned on other forums post related to this topic, this is a case that will set long term precedent and will impact multiple industries. Depending on its outcome, you could send waves through every marketplace. The end results of this could force markets to allow third party markets to be published on their store. And remember, those criticizing Apple should also know that Epic is suing Google for the SAME exact thing. That case has been put on hold pending the results of this Apple vs Epic case. Epic wants to bypass Apple/Google's store by offering a third party store (Epic app) to sell games/skins/vBucks without paying for the app store. I think Apple will prevail primarily, but I do wonder if in store apps should be a smaller fee. Not sure the courts will get involved at that level but I suspect this case will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

It's not easy for anyone to move out of any city or ecosystem without consequences. Think of all the apps you will lose access to if you move from Google to Apple. All those paid for apps, GONE. But is that not different than moving from iMac to Windows or vice versa? Almost all platforms suffer from this and you will lose & gain by switching ecosystems.
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 210   +312
Wow, I’ve been using a Mac as my primary machine for work (and self) for about eight years now. I was getting paychecks and all, despite not doing any real work!

You should try it yourself. Why use a PC and do Real Work when you can get paid to not work with a Mac as your primary machine?! ;P
I have a Macbook Air for my primary home laptop. But you pretty much need to run nearly everything in a VM as MacOS lacks heavy in indusial and commercial apps. Plus MacOS doesn't integrate well into a Active Directory setup. There are reasons why Macs are rare in the workforce. They are great web devices, and these days most MacOS power users are web devs.

I've programmed so many devices that require windows based software to talk to the equipment. And use too much software that just works better on windows.
 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 320   +207
Epic does not want to access Apple servers or content. Epic want right to have their own store that sell games for iOS.

Epic is saying Apple is does not allow anyone to compete with Apple by abusing their position as OS vendor to create illegal monopoly in app sale. Apple say it is not monopoly because iOS apps are not a market, but instead all software (regardless of operating system it run on) should be seen as a market.

If Apple win, it set legal precedence that it is legal for other company also. It will set a new standard for how software is sold in all future OS (maybe not include Linux that is free). Microsoft will follow this model if it is found legal. If Microsoft can force every software sale to give them 30% cut, they will do it. Software prices will go up as result. Company like EA, Blizzard, Steam are not going to give up 30% of their revenue. They will raising price by 30% to add OS vendor cut. Anyone who think otherwise is fool.

I do agree you that if Epic is doing same thing then they too should change. I am agree you there should not being any situation of “the standard applies to you but not to me”


If that was their intention, they’re going to need to open up their app too and allow competitors to access their servers, content and so on if they get their way.

As is usually the case in these arguments “the standard applies to you but not to me” is the rule of the day. That’s how you get Google using its Search and mobile OS dominance to crush Windows Phone by breaking common services, while later getting Google and its allies complaining that Apple isn’t sufficiently open.
 

waclark

Posts: 37   +20
They're right - if Apple enabled Android to use iMessage, then Apple would take a good hit to their user base. Walk up to an iphone user and ask them the best part about their phone - the majority I've talked to, say the very first thing is iMessage.

It's not the iPhone that's keeping them, it's not a particularly stellar phone - it's iMessage, and their perceived struggle it would take to switch off of their iSuite. Android phones have a significantly richer experience and Apple knows this, and the fact that if they open up one of their services to the competition, it will most definitely hurt them.

That being said - it's well within Apple's right to keep services internal to their ecosystem if they so desire, it's their platform. Pretty weak argument by Epic here.
I don't know anyone that buys an iPhone just for iMessage. I have an iPhone, largely because I've had iPhones for a while and have a fair amount of music and apps. Not that they can't be migrated to Android but it's just easy to stick with iPhones. I've had Android phones in the past, usually supplied by my employer. I never found enough of a reason to switch. That's not saying Android is worse than iOS, just that there wasn't anything compelling enough to make the switch.
 
I don't think Epic understands iMessage at all. I hope their whole case is not resting on them saying that an optional service is anti-consumer.
iMessage is not a required service, it can be disabled and you don't need it to send or receive standard text messages. Seem like Epic has done zero research on this and will be laughed at again.