Bill Gates buys Porsche Taycan, reveals the biggest problem with EVs

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,126   +3,214
700 to 800 miles is the end goal, once they reach 700 to 800 miles that equals about the longest daily drive most people will want to do for traveling. 800 miles is almost 12 hours on the road and being able to go non-stop at that range would allow electric to compete well against normal fuel cars.
That may not be that far off; technology is not standing still. In fact, there is an announcement of a new super capacitor tech that might make batteries the equivalent of stone knives and bearskins - https://techxplore.com/news/2020-02-fast-charging-long-running-bendy-energy-storage.html
 

CharmsD

Posts: 413   +253
The number of sockets isn‘t the problem - current is. Just imagine the current passing through the grid if only a quarter of vehicles are EV and need to be fast charged.
I guess that's also how would it work if a quarter of ICE vehicles needed to fill up FAST at the same time.
 
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Karlos95

Posts: 104   +32
Jesus, how far do some of you drive.

A tesla would be perfect for me. Drive to work say it is 200kms away, you are still left with 200kms when you get home. Enough to go to local shops or restaurants. Then you charge over night and repeat process. No need to ever go out the way of your choirs to go fill up at a gas station.

Now if you want to do longer trips, follow a road with super chargers or use a secondary (diesel) as a road trip car/camping car. Yeah, EVs aren't perfect yet but that will change. Anyone that says differently is in denial.

EVs are here to stay to make the planet a better place and make the air quality better.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,049   +4,851
When that time "comes" people will have solar and the grid will be obsolete. Well maybe those riding horses will have one?
I hate to break this to you Dave, but the highest population densities are in the largest cities.

Manhattan real estate is an average of $1,773 per square foot, according to NeighborhoodX. The next most expensive area on a per square foot basis is San Francisco, which averages $902 per square foot. That's followed by Boston at $586 per square foot, Washington D.C. at $515 and Miami Beach at $504.Aug 11, 2018

When you couple that with multi story buildings, I don't think you'll be making a dent with solar augmentation of the power grid in New York City, anytime soon, if ever.
 
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Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,841   +2,126
Range is not the only problem. Battery replacements and the toxic manufacturing of lithium cells, and the associated cobalt/nickle mining are major issues.

Congrats, you releases a somewhat lower CO2 output, but not enough to stop the very climate change you scream about, and you've polluted the watershed for hundreds of millions of square miles of land that will take hundreds of years to clean up. But at least you can say you are green, right?
 

PEnnn

Posts: 380   +312
There aren't enough charging stations and the time it takes to charge keeps the masses from buying electric cars. Also, the electric grid isn't capable of handling millions of cars charging all at the same time.
I bet the horse and buggy crowd said the same thing when Ford announced his first cars....l)
 
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tkabou

Posts: 116   +134
Our ICE vehicles are nothing compared to the emissions produced by private jets of the virtue-signaling elite on why the world is facing a "climate emergency." Plant more trees instead of fly halfway around the world to tell us how bad supposedly things are...
 

Karlos95

Posts: 104   +32
Range is not the only problem. Battery replacements and the toxic manufacturing of lithium cells, and the associated cobalt/nickle mining are major issues.

Congrats, you releases a somewhat lower CO2 output, but not enough to stop the very climate change you scream about, and you've polluted the watershed for hundreds of millions of square miles of land that will take hundreds of years to clean up. But at least you can say you are green, right?
Unfortunately that is a myth spread by the fossil fuels industry.

A majority of car batteries are re-used or re-purposed.
Also depending on the car you buy, the EV produces less CO2 than a ICE in less than 3 years of driving it. That takes into consideration production as well!

So yes. EVs are definitely better for the environment. I would do research on those matters before repeating coal and oil industry propaganda.


 

DaveBG

Posts: 478   +191
I hate to break this to you Dave, but the highest population densities are in the largest cities.

Manhattan real estate is an average of $1,773 per square foot, according to NeighborhoodX. The next most expensive area on a per square foot basis is San Francisco, which averages $902 per square foot. That's followed by Boston at $586 per square foot, Washington D.C. at $515 and Miami Beach at $504.Aug 11, 2018

When you couple that with multi story buildings, I don't think you'll be making a dent with solar augmentation of the power grid in New York City, anytime soon, if ever.
What? And how that prevents the urban solar power plants ? Search this term in google and you will get the idea. And this is based on current panel efficiency. In the future (which we are talking about) single panel on the sidewall will be enough to power your condo for days...
 

madboyv1

Posts: 1,587   +480
In cars that have batteries, like a Prius, it is possible to do it yourself at a fraction of the cost if you are technically astute enough and have a good guide like this -
I hate to admit it, but I just sat hear watching this video out of curiosity despite the fact that I do not own a Prius.
 
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SpatulaCity

Posts: 17   +14
You got Bill Gates' net worth wrong, his net worth is over 100 billion dollars so he can finally afford an electric car. If he only had 100 million, we'd be reading about his new Kia.
 

Irata

Posts: 519   +641
TechSpot Elite
I guess that's also how would it work if a quarter of ICE vehicles needed to fill up FAST at the same time.
An ICE vehicle can be filled up to 100% in a few minutes and for as long as the gas stations' fuel tanks do not run empty.

Now if gas stations did not have tanks and were connected by individual pipeline, we would have a similar problem as those pipes would need to be sized appropriately to handle the fuel "current".
 

Irata

Posts: 519   +641
TechSpot Elite
I really wonder about the second-hand market of EVs. Technically the batteries can last about 10 years depending on usage but near the end of that, the range will be dropping fast. And it costs well over $5K to replace it with a new one.
That is my main concern. I have never owned a single batter powered device where they even lasted this long (holding a meaningful charge). Not sure fast charging is helping battery life here and with the new longer range vehicles, replacing the larger battery pack should be even more expensive and who will invest that kind of money in a 10+ year old used car.

The same issue probably also applies to hybrid cars. Anyone have an overview of how well older (10, 12..15 years old) are selling vs. ICE as they have been around for over 20 years now?
 

Puiu

Posts: 3,882   +2,393
There are many more electric sockets than there are electric cars, and the gasoline grid is not capable of refilling millions of cars all at the same time.
The "grid" will be fine. It will receive upgrades as the load increases and a lot of private money will fund it. Cars will also get more efficient as time passes.
 

CharmsD

Posts: 413   +253
An ICE vehicle can be filled up to 100% in a few minutes and for as long as the gas stations' fuel tanks do not run empty.
There are orders of magnitude less energy stored in the tanks than are available from the wires powering the ELECTRIC pumps used to move gas into the cars.

Using those same wires to an EV to charge it's batteries, and friction losses, conversion from recropicating to rotational power, "slush pump" torque converters, right angle gear transfers, etc, etc, etc, are obviated, the higher efficiency of direct conversion of electricity to rotational work (ICE are low efficiency compared to electric) and the improvement is obvious.

One GGE (gas/gallon/equivalency) of electricity = 33.7 kwh, and produces more work than a a gallon of fuel used in an ICE, be it diesel, gasoline, CNG, or blended fuel, due to inherent inefficiencies (heat, friction, byproducts) of ICE engines. There are ~2000 moving parts in an ICE engine vehicle compared to about 20 in an EV, it's beneficial to the operational economy when the first and subsequent orders of motion are rotational.

Motors go round and round, and can be bolted directly to wheels.
Engines go up and down and can be thrown in recycle machines, they're obsolete.

Now if gas stations did not have tanks and were connected by individual pipeline, we would have a similar problem as those pipes would need to be sized appropriately to handle the fuel "current"
I hope that pipe-sizing thought-exercise didn't hurt, a 1" ID pipe can transport 50,000 gallons a day.
 

RealNeil

Posts: 44   +22
Come on bill you bought an EV that has the worse range why didn't you buy a tesla ?
The car's range is probably not a consideration for Wild Bill.
He probably doesn't take driving trips that exceed the car's range. If he plans to go further, I'm sure he's taking a chopper or an airplane.
I think that the Tesla's a nice car, but the Porche is nicer.
 
Want us to give up our GAS cars to save the planet????? MAKE EVs AFFORDABLE!!! EVs are great, but out of reach of the average buyer who is paying 6 or 7 years on a $20,000 gas car. Where I live everyone is driving around in beaters because they can't afford anything else.
 
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Sorileus86

Posts: 22   +9
"The high-end model, which one would imagine was Gates' choice, starts at $186,350 and can easily pass $200,000 with the added extras—pocket change for a man with a $100 million fortune."

What? When did Bill Gates get divorced, that He suddenly lost $99,9 billion? ;-)

Also, I wouldn't buy EV because of the cost, range, and the fact that where I live, EVs are powered by brown coal, so not really that clean.

Get your eyes checked out lol, it clearly says *$110 Billion* lolz
 

CBTex

Posts: 70   +114
There are many more electric sockets than there are electric cars, and the gasoline grid is not capable of refilling millions of cars all at the same time.
Bill Gates is correct. Recharging EV's is the main issue.

Gasoline grid is capable. EV grid is not currently, but getting better.

168,000 gas stations in the U.S. (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/quizzes/answerQuiz16.shtml) Approximate verage number of pumps is 8 (hard to find data, all the sights I found were assuming this)

168000 * 8 = 1,344,000 cars simultaneously

Teslas take a while to charge. Even on a Supercharger. To charge an empty Tesla it is about an hour on Supercharger, 30 hours at home on 240v and 4 days on 110v.

It takes 5 minutes to refuel a car or truck.

And having at home Superchargers is not currently feasible. Those things can draw up to 140KW. Most homes don't draw more than 4KW. If even 5% of the U.S. 270,000,000 cars were on superchargers, that would draw 1.89 Megawatts for those cars alone. Current capacity is about 1.1 Megawatts for all electrical needs.

TL;DR

It's going to take some time before you see EV adoption en masse.

 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,126   +3,214
Range is not the only problem. Battery replacements and the toxic manufacturing of lithium cells, and the associated cobalt/nickle mining are major issues.

Congrats, you releases a somewhat lower CO2 output, but not enough to stop the very climate change you scream about, and you've polluted the watershed for hundreds of millions of square miles of land that will take hundreds of years to clean up. But at least you can say you are green, right?
As we have discussed before, this is myth.
 
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Freddie159

Posts: 33   +15
Well it's that + reliable worry-free access to a charger at the far end of those 800 miles.
If you are at your destination then todays cars can fully charge overnight off a 110volt outlet, plug it in from your motel room and you are good to go. Now once hotels and motels figure out people are doing that they will install their own chargers and charge you for that too, although for some peoole it could be a 'perk'.
 

Freddie159

Posts: 33   +15
Bill Gates is correct. Recharging EV's is the main issue.

Gasoline grid is capable. EV grid is not currently, but getting better.

168,000 gas stations in the U.S. (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/quizzes/answerQuiz16.shtml) Approximate verage number of pumps is 8 (hard to find data, all the sights I found were assuming this)

168000 * 8 = 1,344,000 cars simultaneously

Teslas take a while to charge. Even on a Supercharger. To charge an empty Tesla it is about an hour on Supercharger, 30 hours at home on 240v and 4 days on 110v.

It takes 5 minutes to refuel a car or truck.

And having at home Superchargers is not currently feasible. Those things can draw up to 140KW. Most homes don't draw more than 4KW. If even 5% of the U.S. 270,000,000 cars were on superchargers, that would draw 1.89 Megawatts for those cars alone. Current capacity is about 1.1 Megawatts for all electrical needs.

TL;DR

It's going to take some time before you see EV adoption en masse.
They can be made to charge MUCH faster but it means raising the voltage under the hood to over 750 volts, SOME cars are there now but not many and they are the very expensive ones. There's also the problem of shade tree mechanics trying to work on an electric motor because they know electricity but not all that voltage, that will change over time but it takes time.

Personally I'd like to see all rest stops have high speed chargers in them and not just one or two chargers but maybe 10 or 20 of them!! I'd also like to see every dealer that sells electric cars put chargers out for anyone to use, and not just one or two either!! I live at the beach and my local town put in 3 chargers, they only charge you for the electricty you put in the car no fee to 'hook up' and it's at the going rate the local electrical company charges.