Bots are still ravaging PlayStation 5 inventory at retail

Knot Schure

Posts: 369   +175
Considering the selfishness and absolute need for immediate satisfaction plus the fact that those same individuals have the money to burn...yeah the scalpers will continue to rake up the money from those fools.

They (scalpers), got none from me.

6900XT over 1100GBP, 3080s over 1000GBP, eventually I said phuck it, and plumped for a 3090 direct from Nvidia's site, which re-directed to Scan.co.uk .

And so, for a few hundred pounds more, I wound up with a 3090 as opposed to the '10G VRAM' 3080, which I do not expect to 'age well'.

Explaining this last Sunday to a family member, the cheapest legit 3080 was 1,195 on Fleabay, at that time of looking.

So the scalpers did end up costing ME more money, but none of it THEY got.
 

Knot Schure

Posts: 369   +175
A miner is ultimately another consumer, just like me. We both want cards for our own purposes. We're each consuming the limited supply but the miner would be doing what he's doing with or without me. His profit is not coming at my expense.

The scalper is a different animal. He's purchasing a product I want, that he doesn't, just so he can sell it to me at a higher price after having added no value (he maybe actually subtracted value, by voiding the warranty.) I am not going to give him my money even if I'd cheerfully pay the exact same price to the legitimate retailer. I realize that, in the US at least, the scalper is not committing a crime, but my feeling about him is still similar to how I'd feel about someone trying to extort a ransom from me.

I once had a motherboard like that. Was a very expensive affair, and as he purchased from Amazon, they wouldn't support me directly for the return. I had to reach out to ASRock and plead my case, and they supported me directly, for which I was very grateful.

So if there is something I want 2nd hand 'with receipt', I'll ask if it came from Amazon, and if so, its a deal breaker.
 

brucek

Posts: 847   +1,212
Scalpers are not selfish or disgusting or anything of the sort. They are business people buying a commodity for a low price then selling it on for a higher price
Nice try. The scalpers are not like commodity buyers. They are not buying at market price. They are exploiting the tradition (or law, in some jurisdictions, or with some goods like emergency supplies in a disaster) that reputable companies do not take advantage of ordinary consumers by raising prices during temporary shortages. They insert themselves between an already present willing buyer, just to temporarily hijack the transaction and charge a huge markup for having contributed nothing.

Another way they're not like commodity buyers is they are not part of a market that allows parties to quantify risk and pay someone to take it for them, an important function in large companies like say airlines and the fuel they depend on. There's no public market for ps5 futures because no one needs one.
 

brucek

Posts: 847   +1,212
I tend to disagree with you.
Both scalpers and miners buy products/cards in exorbitant quantities, contributing to the shortages and price increases.
The only way to prevent both scalpers and miners to create shortages is the producers to create enough stock. But in practice that won't happen, producer s don't care who buy their product (and why should they).
Not at all the same: miners are a true source of additional demand, while scalpers are not.

Miners buy the card/GPU, keep the card, use the card extensively, and maybe they eventually dump it or maybe they work it til it breaks. Meanwhile scalpers do not want to keep the card, they want to flip it immediately.

Put another way: if miners went away, the GPU companies would sell less GPUs. If scalpers went away, the GPU companies would sell the exact same amount of GPUs.

I'm not disagreeing with you that miners are causing a supply problem. What is troubling about demand from miners is that is starts and stops suddenly, meaning the GPU companies are resistant to planning capacity for them. If the miner demand was consistent and reliable, it'd actually be a win for consumers: the large portion of total cost that is R&D/engineering would be amortized over a much larger customer base, resulting in lower prices. And if the miner demand was consistently much larger than consumer demand, it would also mean that fluctuations in consumer demand would be less noticeable. Sadly though that's not the case, and the miners are a present source of market instability.
 

terzaerian

Posts: 969   +1,416
Not at all the same: miners are a true source of additional demand, while scalpers are not.

Miners buy the card/GPU, keep the card, use the card extensively, and maybe they eventually dump it or maybe they work it til it breaks. Meanwhile scalpers do not want to keep the card, they want to flip it immediately.

Put another way: if miners went away, the GPU companies would sell less GPUs. If scalpers went away, the GPU companies would sell the exact same amount of GPUs.

I'm not disagreeing with you that miners are causing a supply problem. What is troubling about demand from miners is that is starts and stops suddenly, meaning the GPU companies are resistant to planning capacity for them. If the miner demand was consistent and reliable, it'd actually be a win for consumers: the large portion of total cost that is R&D/engineering would be amortized over a much larger customer base, resulting in lower prices. And if the miner demand was consistently much larger than consumer demand, it would also mean that fluctuations in consumer demand would be less noticeable. Sadly though that's not the case, and the miners are a present source of market instability.
Thank you for this balanced perspective.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 293   +142
A miner is ultimately another consumer, just like me. We both want cards for our own purposes. We're each consuming the limited supply but the miner would be doing what he's doing with or without me. His profit is not coming at my expense.

The scalper is a different animal. He's purchasing a product I want, that he doesn't, just so he can sell it to me at a higher price after having added no value (he maybe actually subtracted value, by voiding the warranty.) I am not going to give him my money even if I'd cheerfully pay the exact same price to the legitimate retailer. I realize that, in the US at least, the scalper is not committing a crime, but my feeling about him is still similar to how I'd feel about someone trying to extort a ransom from me.
I get where you're coming from and I can see how it's easy to blame them but ultimately the only person to blame for high costs is the buyers willing to pay it.

Scalpers disappear immediately if buyers won't budge on pricing and product then stays in the retail channel longer making even less of an issue to find one without needing to result to 3rd parties.

Miners would still be a concern but as you said they are just another customer (though they would likley push supply to be contained all on their own)...

Scalpers are the result not the cause of the issue.

You may be strong and able to resist but your fellow gamers are not and their rabid desire to have it all and have it right now creates the problem.

I'll never fault someone for chasing a legal buck if if it comes from people who are only being selfish and impatient.

If we were talking food that's one thing but this is a luxury item that no one really NEEDS but so many WANT and are willing to screw over anyone else they have to to get it right now.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 293   +142
They (scalpers), got none from me.

6900XT over 1100GBP, 3080s over 1000GBP, eventually I said phuck it, and plumped for a 3090 direct from Nvidia's site, which re-directed to Scan.co.uk .

And so, for a few hundred pounds more, I wound up with a 3090 as opposed to the '10G VRAM' 3080, which I do not expect to 'age well'.

Explaining this last Sunday to a family member, the cheapest legit 3080 was 1,195 on Fleabay, at that time of looking.

So the scalpers did end up costing ME more money, but none of it THEY got.

Good for you!

That's about the only legitimate response to them that doesn't feed the problem. (besides just waiting)

The 3090 too was at once in demand so much that it too was costing double but what we saw was scalpers backed off of them and have let them land in stores for some time because buyers eventually wouldn't put up the bucks to make it worth it to them.
. The reason this happened is the small power difference between the 2

Being only about 10% slower than the $1500 3090 means buyers of those cards are absolutely willing to pay more than the $699 msrp but quickly find pushing closer to $1500 to be as much as they'll go.

Because once your spending within 10% of the 3090s cost you find yourself justifying spending the difference and getting something extra for that money.

If the 3090 was 2x the performance of the 3080 we wouldn't see the 3080 cost rise nearly as much as it has.

But being so close to the 3090 (and that card being so much more expensive) it makes it really easy for many to justify spending a lot closer to the 3090s money to get one.

But like I said we no longer really see the demand pushing buyers to pay double for a 3090 and it's "value" has basically settled to around what it's retail costs are.

So no more scalpers buying them.

It's nice that you got SOMETHING for all that extra money but the real "winner" is still obviously the 3080 at its retail pricing.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 1,717   +1,322
Nice try. The scalpers are not like commodity buyers. They are not buying at market price. They are exploiting the tradition (or law, in some jurisdictions, or with some goods like emergency supplies in a disaster) that reputable companies do not take advantage of ordinary consumers by raising prices during temporary shortages. They insert themselves between an already present willing buyer, just to temporarily hijack the transaction and charge a huge markup for having contributed nothing.

Another way they're not like commodity buyers is they are not part of a market that allows parties to quantify risk and pay someone to take it for them, an important function in large companies like say airlines and the fuel they depend on. There's no public market for ps5 futures because no one needs one.
Nope, I’ve thought about it and buying luxury items for a lower price and selling them on high is fine. There is nothing immoral about it.

You’re just upset that you can’t get hold of one of these luxury items and lashing out with ad hominem attacks on the people getting their hands of stuff before you do.
 

Rdmetz

Posts: 293   +142
What the ****


I'm "the tech guy" in my friends and family circles (I run my own small pc repair / build shop) and so when I am already going out of my way to secure mine I make sure I pick up extras for those around me I know are interested and not well equipped to know how to do so.

I personally kept to 30 series 1 ps5 and 1 xbox series x

All the rest went to my people who rely on me for this stuff.