Bots snap up RTX 3090 cards at launch, despite Nvidia's efforts
- Thread starter midian182
- Start date
There are 256 posted right now, doesnt mean that each seller has only one for sale, not to mention they are probably selling on other sites too.
The real number of bot-snatched cards could be in the thousands.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
Still not a drop in the ocean.... there will be millions of these cards...
Because people hate scalpers. You move on!
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
Some people hate scalpers.... the ignorant mostly.... why do you think stadiums let scalpers sell tickets right outside though? Guaranteed sales!
You are defending illegal antisocial practices as being some sort of capitalist mechanism.
What you call "guaranteed sales" would happen without the ticket price gougers.
To be clear, the stadiums would sell all their tickets anyway, the only difference is that between the stadium and the sports fans, there is an added layer of profit, namely the ticket scalpers, which are just parasites making money by fleecing the fans.
There is no advantage in this for the stadium, just like there is no advantage for Nvidia if they sell their stock to the scalpers as opposed to the legit customers.
Its actually a disadvantage for Nvidia because they look bad and they will lose the respect of their fans.
What would you consider "fact"?
The self admitting of the perpetrators and the service they are using is probably not fact enough, so fine, what would be "fact" enough for you?
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
No... there IS an advantage to the stadium... here’s the thing, the tickets go on sale - they all get sold... if none of the buyers scalp, then there’s no point in coming to the game if I didn’t get a ticket...
But since I know that there will be scalpers, I come to the game anyways - knowing I can pick up tickets even if they sold out.
The stadium doesn’t need to hire anyone to man their box office the day of the game (or just a skeleton crew to man will-call) and everyone who wants to go to the game, gets to go - provided they can afford it.
Much of the risk is also now taken by the scalpers instead of the stadium - for example, a concert has the lead singer cancel... the show goes on, but now far fewer people want to go... scalpers get screwed - but not the stadium
This is illogical on one hand, and doesnt relate to the Nvidia situation on the other hand.No... there IS an advantage to the stadium... here’s the thing, the tickets go on sale - they all get sold... if none of the buyers scalp, then there’s no point in coming to the game if I didn’t get a ticket...
But since I know that there will be scalpers, I come to the game anyways - knowing I can pick up tickets even if they sold out.
The stadium doesn’t need to hire anyone to man their box office the day of the game (or just a skeleton crew to man will-call) and everyone who wants to go to the game, gets to go - provided they can afford it.
Much of the risk is also now taken by the scalpers instead of the stadium - for example, a concert has the lead singer cancel... the show goes on, but now far fewer people want to go... scalpers get screwed - but not the stadium
You are defending a morally undefensible situation, but thats the norm nowadays.
Positive discrimination or it's euphemism "affirmative action" are morally undefensible, yet they are the accepted norm.
Thats the times we live in.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
How is it illogical? Please explain how any of what I said doesn’t make sense to you.... I’m a teacher and would be happy to educate you.
And how does it not relate to the Nvidia situation? This is exactly the same thing!
Nvidia has an item that they wish to sell - but only in limited numbers at first. Why should Nvidia care if “scalpers” purchase the items? These scalpers allow those who missed purchasing the cards immediately to still buy them - but at an increased price.
Again, all the risk is now on the scalpers. If the card turns out to have defects, be not as good as advertised, etc, then it’s the scalpers who will be stuck with inventory - not Nvidia.
Everyone wins here... except for those who don’t want to pay extra to buy the card early...
The card will be available for EVERYONE who wants one within a month or 2.... I really don’t see the problem.
As for it being a “morally indefensible position”.... I’d argue that YOU are being illogical... supply and demand my friend... supply and demand.
It's illogical because you claim there is an advantage to the stadium, when in fact there is no advantage.
A teacher without moral standards, im sorry for your students.
Yes in theory it shouldnt matter if Nvidia sells their stock to scalpers, legit customers or aliens from Mars.
In practice though, they look bad and they lost customer loyalty and got some bad press articles too.
You slip back into lack of logic when you claim that the scalpers "allow those who missed purchasing the cards to still buy them, at an increased price"....so many people "missed" the purchase because of the scalpers bots, but no worries, they are allowed to still buy the same item, at a hugely increased price....lucky them.
Your lack of logic goes to extremes when you claim "everybody wins here, except those who dont want to pay extra"...how the bleep does "paying extra" count as a "win"? How does failing to buy an item because of bots count as a win?
Wonder what kind of twisted mental world you live in.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,597 +5,227
But there is... did you not read what I typed?
I‘m not a scalper... I’m trying to explain why they help the merchant!
You're using the same logic that a person who's looking for a parking spot in a crowded mall uses....
You see a car parked in 2 spots and think, "logically" that if that jerk had only parked legally in 1 spot, you could park in the other one...
But you are actaully thinking ILLOGICALLY! The only reason the spot seems to be available in the first place is BECAUSE of that jerk... had they parked legally, the other spot would have been taken by the next driver - which almost certainly would not have been you!!
The same applies to the Nvidia inventory. People think "if only there weren't bots buying out everything, I'd have a card right now!"
But they probably wouldn't - supply is still limited, so your odds would be fairly low... and now those who actually WANT to pay extra for a card won't get one.
So yes, a few people "lose" out to bots... but they'll eventually get the card they want - they just have to wait a few weeks.
Those who REALLY want a new card though - and are willing to pay extra for the privilege - still have the opportunity to get the card early...
I understand you think this is immoral - I'm not here to pontificate on morals. This is simply the way the world works! I suggest you get used to it...
Oh boy you are an endless source of fun.
The fact that I would most likely not be the person parking in the spare spot occupied by the scumbag that parks in two spots at once, is not an excuse for the scumbag. Doesnt matter who lost the parking spot to a scumbag, what matters is that a parking spot was lost to a scumbag...fathom?
If there were no bots, more legit buyers would have got their cards and nobody would have to pay extra. Simple logic.
The whole idea of being a human, is not getting used to how things work, but changing how things work, preferably changing for the better.
People like you suggest getting used to all the bad things happening and taking them for granted.
Thanks but no thanks.
@Squid Surprise @kaboro - please take your discussion to private messages now. Thanks.
amghwk
Posts: 1,550 +1,542
Ah yes, here we go again...people buying the most expensive card just because it's the most expensive.... gives Nvidia the reason to bloat up their higher numbered products' costs even more.
Anyway, hey, it's your money. Nevermind it's of very poor value, with nvidia's own half-priced 3080 downplaying it.
Anyway, hey, it's your money. Nevermind it's of very poor value, with nvidia's own half-priced 3080 downplaying it.
amghwk
Posts: 1,550 +1,542
I agree to most suggestions here on how to discourage the practice of buying from these hoarders and get from Nvidia directly instead.
But let's change our perspective to Nvidia's side. Do you think Nvidia will sit and wait for each individual's verifified sale, or be more than happy to push off it's products to any bots or hoarder-sellers and make quick and easy buck and move on?
But let's change our perspective to Nvidia's side. Do you think Nvidia will sit and wait for each individual's verifified sale, or be more than happy to push off it's products to any bots or hoarder-sellers and make quick and easy buck and move on?
Endymio
Posts: 2,673 +2,701
Scalping only occurs when products are priced improperly. In NVidia's case, this is a temporary situation; long-term either they will provide enough supply to meet the demand, or they will increase pricing so that they, rather than the scalpers, are making the excess profit.
In some ways, scalpers are the epitome of capitalistic free markets. There is nothing wrong with the thought, the only thing wrong is that people see capitalism as the one solution to everything. Dogmatically follow ideological believes are stupid
Scalpers basically used their investment (Bounce Bot, capital) to leverage an advantage over other people in securing stock to be re-sold, and their mark up is justified by the lack of supply. The service they provide is guarantee stock.
There are so many ways nVidia could had solved this, they just chose not to probably because this is not an issue that going to be a continual problem. Reality is, stock would come back and scalpers can't be hoarding the stock forever. This is not a concert or a sports game where there are finite time frame and stock available. So long as people don't buy from scalpers, as doing so would ensure it would remain profitable.
Scalpers basically used their investment (Bounce Bot, capital) to leverage an advantage over other people in securing stock to be re-sold, and their mark up is justified by the lack of supply. The service they provide is guarantee stock.
There are so many ways nVidia could had solved this, they just chose not to probably because this is not an issue that going to be a continual problem. Reality is, stock would come back and scalpers can't be hoarding the stock forever. This is not a concert or a sports game where there are finite time frame and stock available. So long as people don't buy from scalpers, as doing so would ensure it would remain profitable.
The principle of scalping is not related to capitalism or free markets at all, and I dont understand why so many people write it off as "normal capitalism" or "free markets at work".
What happened in the specific case of the recent Nvidia cards is equivalent to people standing in line to buy something, and somebody cutting the line, buying the stock and reselling it to the people that stayed in line.
This has nothing to do with capitalism and/or free market.
This is breaking the law, because they used technology to circumvent Nvidia's rules of one per customer, and cheat the system.
Of course this is a minor crime, nobody got hurt, the only harm done is the frustration of the people that couldnt buy the card....but its still a crime nevertheless.
What happened in the specific case of the recent Nvidia cards is equivalent to people standing in line to buy something, and somebody cutting the line, buying the stock and reselling it to the people that stayed in line.
This has nothing to do with capitalism and/or free market.
This is breaking the law, because they used technology to circumvent Nvidia's rules of one per customer, and cheat the system.
Of course this is a minor crime, nobody got hurt, the only harm done is the frustration of the people that couldnt buy the card....but its still a crime nevertheless.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,721 +4,821
The only way to stop bots is to force them to be sold only by voice ordering or brick-and-mortar stores.
Since no company is willing to hire more call centre staff, the bots will never be defeated completely.
To defeat the bots yourself is simple. Just don't plan on getting new hardware until at least three months have passed since its release. That's better practice anyway because it lets you know just what exactly it is that you're getting before you get it.
What part of "Look before you leap" and "Fools rush in" are people having trouble understanding?
Since no company is willing to hire more call centre staff, the bots will never be defeated completely.
To defeat the bots yourself is simple. Just don't plan on getting new hardware until at least three months have passed since its release. That's better practice anyway because it lets you know just what exactly it is that you're getting before you get it.
What part of "Look before you leap" and "Fools rush in" are people having trouble understanding?
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