Buying second-hand graphics cards that were used for crypto mining isn't as risky as you...

[midian182]

In context: It's an argument that has been raging for years: is buying a second-hand graphics card worth the risk when it could have been used extensively for crypto mining? Probably the most famous of all the tech YouTube channels, Linus Tech Tips, has long said that former mining cards don't automatically suffer from performance issues, and could even be a better buy than those that were used exclusively for gaming. Now, Linus might have proven this claim.

Tech Tips' Linus Sebastian has long been a passionate advocate for buying second-hand graphics cards. It's an especially appealing prospect in an era when Nvidia is often referred to as the scalper. But fears that auction-site cards might have been used 24/7 for mining put many potential buyers off—there have been plenty of reports of these cards being worked close to death. Manufacturer Palit previously advised customers to avoid them as its independent tests proved the GPU's performance is reduced by about 10% after almost a year of mining use.

To try and confirm what effects mining has on cards, Linus bought 19 second-hand models last year that at some point were desirable for mining and hard to find for gaming; a mix of AMD Radeon 5700s, and Nvidia RTX 3060s, 3070s, and 3080s. These were tested against lightly-used GPUs from the channel's own stock.

Only two of the 19 cards tested had any noticeable issues: a Gigabyte Eagle RTX 3060 OC and a Sapphire Pulse RX 5700 XT. The Nvidia card's clock speeds were lower than normal due to it reaching temperatures over 100C and thermally throttling. The Sapphire Pulse didn't experience substantially lower clock speeds on Kombustor, and both the temperatures—it was the coolest out of all the 5700 models—and gaming performance were unaffected, so the AMD card could have had a reduced power target only visible in MSI's program.

The gaming tests showed little variation between the cards, all performing as they should. Interestingly, the control GPU's 1% lows were lower than the mining models. Linus notes that the heating and cooling cycles and the higher clock speeds of gaming-only cards cause more damage to a GPU than what you would see in cards used only for mining.

It was also discovered that the Eagle OC's VRAM performance had deteriorated substantially, making this the only one of the 19 cards Linus suggests returning for a refund—or using eBay's buyer protection policy.

How much Linus saved compared to buying the cards new

Linus does make some good points, and the results are pretty eye-opening. The only caveats to the tests are that 19 cards isn't a huge sample, and while they're more than likely to have been used for mining at some point, this isn't 100% certain.

Not all mining cards are going to be safe, of course. Last year brought news of Vietnamese cryptocurrency miners preparing used graphics cards for resale by washing them with a high-powered jet nozzle. More recently, there was a story of miners trying to deceive customers by painting over the cards' memory before resale, making their wear-and-tear appear less extensive.

Ultimately, the video should give gamers more confidence when buying a second-hand card. It seems those used regularly for gaming are just as, if not more, likely to have problems compared to those used for mining.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/97502-linus-tech-tips-shows-buying-second-hand-graphics.html

 

[takaozo]

LTT it's just fun to watch these days, for entertainment only.

 

[MarcusNumb]

Buying any second hand product is a risk already. Ofc if you are experienced enough, you can always get a very good deal. LTT is becoming more of a tech entertaining channel for spare time, which is totally fine to me since they have to feed content to over 15 millions subscribers.

 

[UdyrL]

"*most of the time"

This makes the whole article redundant and throws to the ditch any argument in favor of playing the equivalent of a gamble when purchasing a used article that might have been abused.

 

[Timoo]

"*most of the time"

This makes the whole article redundant and throws to the ditch any argument in favor of playing the equivalent of a gamble when purchasing a used article that might have been abused.

Isn't this always the case?
Buying a second-hand car is just as risky, if not more (since wear & tear is more likely on a car than on a GPU card). Second hand is always risky, and therefore so much more rewarding than new.

I've always built my PC's second-hand. Only power supplies, SSD's and cases are often new. Even HDD's I often buy second-hand, since you can often find them with testing results, giving you an idea of their wear & tear.

The savings are significant: Recently I upgraded a whole bunch of PC's at home. 4 PC's, all from an old AM3 platform to an AM4 platform, with 2600's. For less than 1000€, all of them! And reselling the old components saved me another 300€ orso...

 

[Nandiman]

The issue that I have, is not performance, but lifespan. I buy a mining gpu, I test it, it performs within spec, but dies a month later. For comparison, I game about 2-3 hours per day, more in the weekend. That's on average 24h/week. A mining GPU is used 24h/day. That's 7 times more than what Average Joe would use the GPU for. How long would a GPU survive a when used non-stop, 24/7 for 2 years straight? I don't know, but I don't want to find out.

 

[MyIOnU]

I bet this article was sponsored by miners. Sure it may look and work okay for now, but how long it will last?

 

[Adhmuz]

So far I've had great experiences with second hand hardware, however, most of what I buy is enterprise class hardware, with exception to a 1080 I bought in person from a gamer. That card worked fine and still does to this day, pretty sure the kid never used it for mining at least.

The only other consumer grade second hand purchase I'm waiting on is a 3060TI I sniped on Ebay for a great price, seller didn't have a huge quantity of these cards, nor had history of selling a lot of them, so I'm hoping it wasn't a mining card either. Arriving this week so I'll know soon enough.

 

[Julio Franco]

Sample of one, but I decided to experiment on myself and bought an RTX 3080 for $520 on eBay. So far, so good, but I understand the risk is there and it's not for everyone.

Still, it's 70% faster than my previous GPU that I spent $800 for new.

 

[poohbear]

The video card's cooling is also a huge factor. I bought a used Gigabyte Aorus 1080 Ti in 2019 with a huge heatsink and 3 high-end fans. The owner was transparent and said it was used for mining, but assured me with its extensive cooling it didn't have any problems. I've been gaming on it for going on 4 years now and no problems at all.

"*most of the time"

This makes the whole article redundant and throws to the ditch any argument in favor of playing the equivalent of a gamble when purchasing a used article that might have been abused.

So, you don't do anything unless its 100% guaranteed? Well good luck with life.

 

[takaozo]

I'm currently running a card that for 18 months was used for ETH mining.
I got it in last February with still 6 months of warranty. Still works as expected today.
All depends if you are willing to gamble or not and also know a thing or two about used components and what signs to look for.

 

[Axeia]

I did my part, quite happy with a used RX 6700 XT. I've pretty much exclusively been buying used cards since AMD and NVIDIA are asking more them then I deem them to be worth (the first mining bubble ages ago). US new prices sometimes seem alright but the prices in Europe are way higher.

Buy through ebay if you can, the only marketplace that seems to have your back. If not make sure you get a good vibe from the seller. I don't really consider anything that doesn't come with the original box / receipt, shows that some amount of care is there at least. If you can see it working in person you're usually pretty safe as well. That's usually my first question if it's not through ebay, I make sure to pick it up in person and ask if it can be seen working.
If people know they're selling crap they're unlikely to give out their home address. If they're claiming something like "I sold the rest of my PC" so they can't show you and their sales history is empty of PC (parts) I avoid them. If they answer yes my mind is at ease and I usually don't even tend to ask to see it working when getting there, just knowing they were willing to do so is a good indication they trust what they're selling.

Mining also isn't as bad for the cards lifespan as a lot of people make it out to be. If it's been running with a big undervolt in a fairly cool environment non of the electronic parts really degrade much. If it's been running at full tilt sandwiched in between 2 other cards choking off the air causing high temperatures.. yeah I'd avoid that.
If the seller can give me some background information and it sounds believable it's a lot more likely I'll buy from them.

Haven't gotten burned aside from an AMD Fury (non-X) committing seppuku after 3-4 years of loyal service and a R9 290 after like 5-6 years (that card was doing great for 1080p gaming for a really long time!)

 

[Thatsdisgusting]

If things were normal, I would consider 2nd hand card for cheap. But 4000 series prices completely broke used cards prices, so I refuse even think about cards from mining shaft for 2 year old MSRP price

 

[m4a4]

It's nice to see some numbers to backup the (fairly easy to understand) logic that mined on GPUs most likely are a good buy (as miners are incentivized to take care of them while mining), instead of peddling the media's unsubstantiated fearmongering about shortened lifespans (which would only happen if you were stupid and ran them too hot all the time).

Which, no one is saying that used will be guaranteed (it never is), but they're certainly not guaranteed to be near death just because someone mined on them.

And then, yeah, it's probably better than buying a new card and giving Nvidia (and AMD) exactly what they want (as they certainly are peddling that misinformation too). Voting with your wallets on used will help convince Nvidia that their ridiculous prices are, well, ridiculous lol

 

[Julnor]

If I don't want to work an extra couple of hours for it to buy it new, I probably don't actually want whatever it is. There's always ways to buy things cheaper but you have to make compromises. You can buy cheaper brands, buy used, buy from China directly, etc. There are risks with all those but if the lowest possible price is what you're looking for there is a way. But buying new and from reputable brands and sellers usually gives you better protections and better odds of it working correctly.

Personally I don't have either the time or desire to want to deal with issues. Even new products can have issues, and I personally have quite poor luck. So I like having the option to return hassle free if there is an issue, and also like to avoid big shipping costs. So new usually from Amazon or my local Microcenter I find is the best option for me. I keep my old tech until I throw it out usually, or give them free as gifts to people.

 

[mcnabney]

10% outright failure rates plus an unknown shortening of lifespan.

Definitely worth saving 10% off retail....

 

[Avro Arrow]

If the cards are properly cared for and priced right, an ex-mining card could be the best deal on the market. Sure, we've heard about the stupids who power-washed their cards or stored them in humid conditions but, for the most part, miners saw these cards as an investment, an investment that should be cared for. If a card is making you money, you want to be sure that it will continue to do so for as long as possible, especially considering what prices cards had reached during the boom.

Most of the time these cards were carefully undervolted and run with their fans at 100% all the time to keep them cool. I think that, for the most part, professional miners probably took better care of their cards than most gamers do.

 

[Nintenboy01]

The issue that I have, is not performance, but lifespan. I buy a mining gpu, I test it, it performs within spec, but dies a month later. For comparison, I game about 2-3 hours per day, more in the weekend. That's on average 24h/week. A mining GPU is used 24h/day. That's 7 times more than what Average Joe would use the GPU for. How long would a GPU survive a when used non-stop, 24/7 for 2 years straight? I don't know, but I don't want to find out.

True, but a constant mining load on cards that are usually undervolted and power limited is usually less damaging than start-stop gaming loads

 

[Gameredic]

The video card's cooling is also a huge factor. I bought a used Gigabyte Aorus 1080 Ti in 2019 with a huge heatsink and 3 high-end fans. The owner was transparent and said it was used for mining, but assured me with its extensive cooling it didn't have any problems. I've been gaming on it for going on 4 years now and no problems at all.



So, you don't do anything unless its 100% guaranteed? Well good luck with life.

Honestly, yes, everything is life is a risk. Peopl take what are aceptable risks. FOr most of us Americans, that means driving. Does it matter that you're moving in metal cans at speeds of 40+ miles on average? And that you're trusting others and yourself that you can control those metal cans?

 

[UdyrL]

Isn't this always the case?
Buying a second-hand car is just as risky, if not more (since wear & tear is more likely on a car than on a GPU card). Second hand is always risky, and therefore so much more rewarding than new.

I've always built my PC's second-hand. Only power supplies, SSD's and cases are often new. Even HDD's I often buy second-hand, since you can often find them with testing results, giving you an idea of their wear & tear.

The savings are significant: Recently I upgraded a whole bunch of PC's at home. 4 PC's, all from an old AM3 platform to an AM4 platform, with 2600's. For less than 1000€, all of them! And reselling the old components saved me another 300€ orso...

Not always the case, because there are second hand units that are practically brand new with little use. Mining cards, as others pointed out, are used 24/7, and sometimes under very poor conditions. I understand gamers are not always the most careful folks, but the extended use is not the same. Also, you can thoroughly inspect a car before you purchase it, but you can rarely do the same with a GPU.

So, you don't do anything unless its 100% guaranteed? Well good luck with life.

If that's what you understood from what I said, then I give that luck back to you.

 

[whateversa]

But did anyone prove expected lifespan of a used mining card? I mean if you are going to pay for something, you expect it to last at least 2 years.

 

[toooooot]

In my personal experience, GPUs became less reliable. Not much but still.
I still aprove used market but I am much less eager going for a used gpu.
They are still expensive as hell, and poses a chance of dying.

 

[WhoCaresAnymore]

Buying any second hand product is a risk already. Ofc if you are experienced enough, you can always get a very good deal. LTT is becoming more of a tech entertaining channel for spare time, which is totally fine to me since they have to feed content to over 15 millions subscribers.

I've noticed that as well. It's more about giving some decent information, but more about big entertainment value. He's making a killing, and good for him.

 

[WhoCaresAnymore]

If the cards are properly cared for and priced right, an ex-mining card could be the best deal on the market. Sure, we've heard about the stupids who power-washed their cards or stored them in humid conditions but, for the most part, miners saw these cards as an investment, an investment that should be cared for. If a card is making you money, you want to be sure that it will continue to do so for as long as possible, especially considering what prices cards had reached during the boom.

Most of the time these cards were carefully undervolted and run with their fans at 100% all the time to keep them cool. I think that, for the most part, professional miners probably took better care of their cards than most gamers do.

The problem arises that they were running full bore 24/7. Gamers play a few hours and that's it. HUGE difference.

 

[Avro Arrow]

In my personal experience, GPUs became less reliable. Not much but still.
I still aprove used market but I am much less eager going for a used gpu.
They are still expensive as hell, and poses a chance of dying.

For me, the big thing about buying used is that, especially these days, you don't really save all that much most of the time. This is why I usually wait until there's some stupidly-cheap sale on new cards because sooner or later, they always happen. When I got my RX 5700 XT, the going rate for them at Canada Computers and Newegg was about $580 but I got mine for $490. If I had decided to get it used, how much more could I have saved, maybe $50? I'd rather have the warranty and as it turned out, I needed it for that card.

I look at used items this way... If it's more than half the price of new, I'm probably not going to buy it. Hell, I never even buy new cars because when they hit 3 years old, they cost half what they do new and are usually still in mint condition with warranty left on them. Not paying the taxes on the new price, freight, PDI and all the other BS rip-off fees that dealers charge makes it seem stupid to me to buy a new car in the first place.

The problem arises that they were running full bore 24/7. Gamers play a few hours and that's it. HUGE difference.

Electronics running at 100% doesn't wear them down because they don't have moving parts. If a card is undervolted and properly cooled it doesn't matter. Just look at all of the businesses who never turn their PCs off or the servers and supercomputers that run 24/7 doing research or data distribution. As long as they're properly protected from heat and too much voltage, they can run that way perpetually. It's when their needs aren't taken care of that there's problems.

If I were a professional miner, my cards would all be undervolted and I would take cooling very seriously because I'd know that either I'd want the cards to be essentially immortal or I'd be looking ahead to when I'd have to sell them and wouldn't want any problems down the line. I'm sure that I'm not alone in this way of thinking because it just makes basic sense. Now, sure, there are a lot of stupids out there but stupids rarely, if ever, succeed.

I used my RX 5700 XT and RX 6800 XT for mining for about 6 months and I never saw their temperatures rise above 65°C. This is because I did the research (which took less than a day) on how to ensure that the cards didn't take any damage and implemented what I'd learnt. The only things that might have had its life reduced on my cards are the fans themselves and those are easily replaced.