China bans purchase of Intel and AMD processors, Microsoft Windows for government computers

[WewuWewu]

150,000 troops participated in D-Day. China has two million troops, and has already unveiled a plan to requisition more than 2,500 large civilian ships to supplement an amphibious assault. Furthermore, China has several thousand short-range ballistic missiles targeted on Taiwan: a weapon that didn't even exist during D-Day.

Except the numbers don't matter much if you can't LAND the troops. Even with the swarms that D-Day used, they were likely close to saturation without stumbling over themselves. Taiwan has far less useable beach and a smaller area than France had exposed. You can also launch a million missiles into Taiwan but that still doesn't mean you can set up a proper beach head to allow the inflow of personnel and materiel.

Even Russia with basically FAVOURABLE land (no water crossing required) has tons of issues toppling Ukraine. China has an even bigger task on hand.

 

[Rocky4040]

It was only a matter of time before this happened. The USA has been screwing with China the last few years. So, it is companies like Intel and AMD and Nvidia and many others that pay the price for what the US government is doing. Now China is fighting back by not allowing US based companies to sell their products such as CPU's and eventually GPU's and probably down the road many other things as well.

But wait there is more coming most likely. Such as not allowing the export of all the stuff marked as made in China not to be allowed to be exported to the US market or even worse not allow US based companies to use the China factories to make products anymore. It is coming, I am sure.

I do also understand why the USA and some other parts of the world are doing such things to China but at the same time anyone with a brain also knows that there would be penalties involved & I guess we are starting to see it starting.

 

[WewuWewu]

It was only a matter of time before this happened. The USA has been screwing with China the last few years. So, it is companies like Intel and AMD and Nvidia and many others that pay the price for what the US government is doing. Now China is fighting back by not allowing US based companies to sell their products such as CPU's and eventually GPU's and probably down the road many other things as well.

But wait there is more coming most likely. Such as not allowing the export of all the stuff marked as made in China not to be allowed to be exported to the US market or even worse not allow US based companies to use the China factories to make products anymore. It is coming, I am sure.

I do also understand why the USA and some other parts of the world are doing such things to China but at the same time anyone with a brain also knows that there would be penalties involved & I guess we are starting to see it starting.

The divesting from China has already begun - a few key players have already moved off manufacturing from China as they've proven to be unreliable partners. Sources:

- https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Foreign-direct-investment-in-China-falls-to-30-year-low#:~:text=The prolonged slowdown in China's,are warning signs for deflation
- https://apnews.com/article/china-foreign-companies-investment-trade-a47887e2c89050d291ebd169b0989cc4

 

[kiwigraeme]

Lots of local cities/provincial govts are near bankrupt . They are removing existing computers

 

[kiwigraeme]

150,000 troops participated in D-Day. China has two million troops, and has already unveiled a plan to requisition more than 2,500 large civilian ships to supplement an amphibious assault. Furthermore, China has several thousand short-range ballistic missiles targeted on Taiwan: a weapon that didn't even exist during D-Day.

Again we are going to disagree.
As mentioned above how to land these troops.

Add in Chinese Navy is utter tofu crap .
How to build up in secret

So many ways to take out ships
There only aircraft carriers are junk )( is it 1 or 2 , can't even leave port ) , hardly work , haven't really mastered electromagnetic slingshot or what ever it is called
Even USA will keep it's aircraft carriers out of much of the missile zone
Drone boats etc

At best a missile war .
USA would place so many missile installations on Taiwan main land - that all the large Chinese ships, troop carriers would be gone in a day or 2

Russia couldn't even overwhelm Ukraine , with so tanks, missiles , troops , bridgeheads/land/air/sea etc
And Russia is an experienced nature at war

Also stupid as , you gain what some more land , mostly mountainous , a bridgehead , more fish.
China is massive
Can't even run it's own country properly- Investment/money fleeing out
Downside - loses worlds factory status even more
They don't make much the world needs - Solar panels , rare earth metals . West will survive and take them from China in Africa etc
Lots of western companies already relocating as CCP are doing more anti-western investment crap
China is only good as a factory . No one makes money investing in local Chinese companies

 

[JRXP2010]

The less we have to do with China, the better.

 

[Endymio]

Add in Chinese Navy is utter tofu crap .

It's not 1990 any longer. China's Navy is the largest in the world. They have an edge over the US in hypersonic weapon platforms and defense systems, and their diesel-electric subs are reputedly as quiet or quieter than the best the US has, albeit range-limited over a nuclear variant. China has also devoted vast sums to developing and fielding weapons specifically designed to counter US naval power in the region, such as air-launched ASBMs and wake-homing torpedos.

There only aircraft carriers are junk )( is it 1 or 2 , can't even leave port )

Oops! Aircraft carriers are only necessary to project power. The Taiwan Straight is only 110 miles across. China can stage every fighter it has from the mainland -- aircraft carriers would only get in the way.

USA would place so many missile installations on Taiwan main land

An operation like that would take years. China -- when it attacks -- will do so without warning, and US satellite intel will give us a few days advance notice at most.

That even assumes the US will choose to intervene. Given the large sums China has paid to the families of certain US politicians, that's far from given.

Russia couldn't even overwhelm Ukraine. And Russia is an experienced nature at war

Russia had zero experience in modern warfare when it attacked Ukraine; they hadn't fought an actual battle against modern weaponry since WW2. And not only is China's military more than twice the size of Russia's, but Taiwan's is less than half the size of Ukraine's. Do the math.

 

[wujj123456]

Going back to the topic, I actually really look forward to how this is going to work out. Even among the educated, the portion that uses Linux is much lower in China than the US from my own experience. I can't imagine the government employees to be the lead of adopting Linux or alternatives for day to day use. EU failed to convert to Linux years ago. If China succeeds in converting to Linux and stick even for that group of people, it could be hugely beneficial for the Linux desktop ecosystem as an example. Not to mention the additional users and developers that would help polishing it once they've converted over. I'm more disgusted by the crap MS is adding to Windows every day and boosting the alternative a bit could help and might even force Windows back onto a saner track.

It's probably not happening though. I bet exemptions will be handed out freely and it would end up being just a show, like so many other things back there. The western tend to read whatever law published as eagerly enforced, but anyone who lived in China for long enough would probably think you are crazy if you assume that.

 

[ferrellsl]

Chinese Loongson CPU Takes on AMD's Zen 3 in Benchmarks

Approximately Zen 3 levels of IPC, based on testing.

www.tomshardware.com

"the 3A6000 features performance comparable to a Core i3-10100F, with the IPC performance of a Zen 3 chip.

No one outside of China wants anything to do with an underperforming, Chinese engineered CPU and not even Chinese citizens want it. The average Chinese citizen is now unemployed and living a hand-to-mouth existence, so the last thing on the minds of Chinese citizens is purchasing a PC that has a Chinese engineered CPU when they're just trying to feed themselves and their families. In case you haven't noticed, the world has turned its back on China and no longer wants anything "Made in China".

 

[kiwigraeme]

It's not 1990 any longer. China's Navy is the largest in the world. They have an edge over the US in hypersonic weapon platforms and defense systems, and their diesel-electric subs are reputedly as quiet or quieter than the best the US has, albeit range-limited over a nuclear variant. China has also devoted vast sums to developing and fielding weapons specifically designed to counter US naval power in the region, such as air-launched ASBMs and wake-homing torpedos.


Oops! Aircraft carriers are only necessary to project power. The Taiwan Straight is only 110 miles across. China can stage every fighter it has from the mainland -- aircraft carriers would only get in the way.


An operation like that would take years. China -- when it attacks -- will do so without warning, and US satellite intel will give us a few days advance notice at most.

That even assumes the US will choose to intervene. Given the large sums China has paid to the families of certain US politicians, that's far from given.


Russia had zero experience in modern warfare when it attacked Ukraine; they hadn't fought an actual battle against modern weaponry since WW2. And not only is China's military more than twice the size of Russia's, but Taiwan's is less than half the size of Ukraine's. Do the math.

I give that you are right about the 110 miles , still need to land feet on the ground
Humans have shown incredible ability to suffer under missiles . Taiwanese they have everything to lose. Look at Hong Kong . Freedoms disappearing every day

Chinese Jet planes are crap as well . Based on Russian from memory . Russian ones are good , but even though China stole lots of tech , spied etc . Still hard to master

Anyway is a lose lose for China.
Taiwan's purpose is to squeeze some blood out of Taiwanese billionaires . Seems Foxconn CEO is quite annoyed with China and maybe moving.
Plus a Nationalistic propaganda to wind up its people , and gain support for Winnie da pooh
Still annoys neighbours Japanese don't like being made targets all the time . Even it Nanking was barbaric, Lots of older POWs hated Japanese , but we have moved on.

Japan is also militarizing vs China and Russia . Especially China trying to steal islands.
Russia got a free grab end of WW2 - even though Japan whipped their ***

Most of it's posturing . China may sink a navy boat. They have crap go down with India.
China got whipped by Vietnam

 

[dangh]

No one outside of China wants anything to do with an underperforming, Chinese engineered CPU and not even Chinese citizens want it. The average Chinese citizen is now unemployed and living a hand-to-mouth existence, so the last thing on the minds of Chinese citizens is purchasing a PC that has a Chinese engineered CPU when they're just trying to feed themselves and their families. In case you haven't noticed, the world has turned its back on China and no longer wants anything "Made in China".

That... makes little sense. First of all, those 'under-performing' cpus are fine for small tasks, like standard office work. And Chinese citizens are buying them - just not for gaming. Even more India citizens are happy to buy them. But the point is the progress they made in last 5 years - this shows in next 5 years, if they keep similar grow rate, they will be competing with even better hardware. That is real problem, not a wishful thinking.
How is average Chinese citizen unemployed? the unemployment rate is 5.2%, while US is 3.9%. I do not know what is your understanding of 'average' word, but I don't think this apply to this case.
In one place you're saying Chinese dont want to buy chinese CPUs (presumably because they are slow?), in other - they cant afford those much cheaper dies. So surely they cant afford more expensive Intel or AMD chips, so... are you saying they dont use PC's at all?
World do not want anything 'china' made? maybe they dont want it, but they keep buying it en masse. You can't buy any electronic where no parts has been ever in China, and many other stuff is still produced there. And the reason is, US and EU used to reduce costs by buying cheapest stuff around, never thinking how this would destroy the local manufacturing. That is the reason now we want to found the semiconductor factories and throwing billions there, but everyone knows this will take 10 years to get any results, and that is 10 years China will continue to gain more influence in region and world.

 

[Endymio]

Chinese Jet planes are crap as well . Based on Russian from memory . Russian ones are good , but even though China stole lots of tech , spied etc . Still hard to master

China's J-10/J-11 fighters were copied from Russia. Their J-20 however is home grown, and likely equivalent to an F-35, according to Western observers. It certainly is more than a match for the decades-old F-16s that the US has given Taiwan.

China got whipped by Vietnam

In the 1970s, China was a nation of agrarian peasant farmers. Their GDP has grown by a factor of neary 150X since then, and their military budget has expanded even faster. The Chinese military of 1979 had a few WW2 era antique weapons. Today, they have hypersonic cruise missiles.

How is average Chinese citizen unemployed? the unemployment rate is 5.2%, while US is 3.9%. I do not know what is your understanding of 'average' word, but I don't think this apply to this case.

You're even more correct than you realize. US unemployment counts only those "actively seeking employment", not the actual number of people without jobs. The US labor force participation rate is only 62%, whereas in China it's more than ten full points higher. Meaning that the average Chinese worker is more likely to have a job than his US counterpart.

 

[AdamNovagen]

My main takeaway from this article is "Intel chips are gonna get 27% more expensive for consumers, and AMD chips will also get 15% more expensive." You better believe they're gonna offload that lost profit onto us lmao

 

[BogdanR]

I guess the gutting of Blue Collar America in the last couple of decades in the name of the Almighty Dollar was really worth it, no?
/sarcasm off

 

[yRaz]

I guess the gutting of Blue Collar America in the last couple of decades in the name of the Almighty Dollar was really worth it, no?
/sarcasm off

As a blue collar worker, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. All the unions are hiring, I make $42/hr and have amazing benefits. In 2023, my union hall had 23 people retire and only had 8 apprentices to replace them. There is a massive labor shortage in all trades and I make more money doing commercial construction than I did building MRI machines for Bayer.

 

[Endymio]

I guess the gutting of Blue Collar America in the last couple of decades in the name of the Almighty Dollar was really worth it, no?

Fun fact: the wage ratio between the US and China is *smaller* today than it was in the 1960s, when the US manufactured nearly half the goods in the entire world.

Another fun fact: during the last year of the Obama Administration, federal agencies were passing new rules and restrictions on industry at the rate of more than 400 per year, or more than one per day.

When you combine those two, you'll understand that the primary reason manufacturing has moved offshore isn't labor costs.

 

[hwertz]

I'm wondering what the local market will look like -- what percentage of these will be Cyrix-based Zhaoxin CPUs, Longsoon MIPS (somehow MIPS got a patent for their unaligned load and store instructions, so this is MIPS minus 4 instructions.), ARM, RISC-V, or (less likely) some custom instruction set?

I mean, if they are not "purchasing" Windows but running it anyway, they'll be using Zhaoxin; if they are using Red Flag Linux or whatever, it barely matters what CPU they're running it on (I mean, performance matters obviously, but in terms of having a "real" desktop as opposed to some cut down system with limited software choices.)

I've installed Linux on a variety of CPUs, besides x86 and x86-64 I've installed to MIPS (both a DEC MIPS and SGI MIPS, and MIPS on routers), Alpha, Motorola 68K, PA-RISC, PowerPC, and ARM. The DEC MIPS, the routers with MIPS, and the 68K system were not about to run a graphical desktop. The other systems, the desktop ran normal, you went to install packages and the packages were all available. (Last I checked, the "worst" ports had about 90% coverage, and it was like 98% on better-supported ports like ARM, both for Debian and Gentoo at least.)

About 20 years ago, as a prank (a pretty odd one I must admit, even for tech types)... I was on vacation for a week. While I was gone, the guys I worked with at this surplus department pulled the motherboard from a PowerMac, stuck it in the case of the PC I was using, installed the same Linux distro on it, installed a couple packages they knew I used, and copied my home directory over. It behaved so stock, I didn't realize anything had been done to the computer for about an hour (it was a dead giveaway when I rebooted and it played the Mac startup sound...) They asked if I wanted to switch it back; I commented everything was exaclty the same but the PowerPC was a hair faster, so go ahead and leave it as it is.

In the modern era, with box86 and box64, you even have easy-to-use support for running x86/x86-64 software on other platforms. A Raspberry Pi isn't going to cut it GPU-wise, but on the handful of ARM systems with strong enough GPU people have even run Steam and fired up games. (They may end up with the ironic situation of some non-x86 systems having better luck running games than the x86-based ones, Via and Zhaoxin are rather tight, Via has the S3 IP so they could decide to stick an S3 Unichrome-based GPU in these things. I had a Via chipset-based socket 7 system back in the day with it on there; the 3D support in Linux never worked (and apparently was quite poor in Windows) but the 2D was fine. If there's at least enough driver support in Linux & Windows to have 2D going, I could see them deciding to use this since they already have it. While I imagine the MIPS and ARM would at a minimum have a low-end tablet-style GPU, which would still clean the S3 GPU's clock.

 

[BogdanR]

Fun fact: the wage ratio between the US and China is *smaller* today than it was in the 1960s, when the US manufactured nearly half the goods in the entire world.

Another fun fact: during the last year of the Obama Administration, federal agencies were passing new rules and restrictions on industry at the rate of more than 400 per year, or more than one per day.

When you combine those two, you'll understand that the primary reason manufacturing has moved offshore isn't labor costs.

Oh, so you were not alive in the ‘90s. Again conveniently leaving out things not supporting your argument. You seem to imply that somehow ONLY the Dems have done it thru regulation AFTER 2008? You’re a decade and a half too late dude. But yes it did happen under both Clinton’s and Bush’s administrations but regulation and Obama? Yea, US manufacturing was indeed thriving until abruptly Obama’s administration killed it.
I’m expecting your long evangelical diatribe to follow shortly. Don’t expect a reply from me.

 

[BogdanR]

As a blue collar worker, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. All the unions are hiring, I make $42/hr and have amazing benefits. In 2023, my union hall had 23 people retire and only had 8 apprentices to replace them. There is a massive labor shortage in all trades and I make more money doing commercial construction than I did building MRI machines for Bayer.

None of what you said made what I’ve said dumb. At best you’re contradicting yourself.

 

[Endymio]

. Yea, US manufacturing was indeed thriving until abruptly Obama’s administration killed it.

Oops! You missed the forest only to smack headlong into that one giant tree. The fault lies with the regulatory climate in the US: the EPA, FDA, IRS, FTC, SEC, FCC, OSHA, OHS, CFPB, DOE, HHS, and countless others. And no, it didn't begin nor end with the Obama Administration; it merely holds the records for most new regulations passed. You could spend your entire life reading the rules and regulations in the federal register alone, and never reach the end. No one can play a game when the rules of that game change far faster than anyone can even read them, much less adhere to them.

I’m expecting your long evangelical diatribe to follow shortly. Don’t expect a reply from me.

You promised that in the other thread, four times in fact. Yet kept replying until the moderator closed the thread.

 

[TitanX]

If the US sees TikTok as a huge national security concern, it makes perfect sense for China to see Intel and AMD as a potential threads. Be honest, this is just a fair retaliation.

 

[Endymio]

If the US sees TikTok as a huge national security concern, it makes perfect sense for China to see Intel and AMD as a potential threads. Be honest, this is just a fair retaliation.

Intel and AMD aren't harvesting secret user data on every device for use by the government. TikTok is ... and the CCP has been using backdoor access in TikTok to target dissidents overseas, as well as many other concerns.

 

[TitanX]

Intel and AMD aren't harvesting secret user data on every device for use by the government. TikTok is ... and the CCP has been using backdoor access in TikTok to target dissidents overseas, as well as many other concerns.

You are being hypercritical. Why should they trust American tech while we distrust theirs? Edward Snowden and Julian Assange's testimony shows all big tech companies work with the government and intelligent services.

 

[Endymio]

You are being hypercritical. Why should they trust American tech while we distrust theirs?

I'm glad you asked. Because our distrust isn't kneejerk emotional reactionism, but based on cold hard evidence of misuse and abuse.

Edward Snowden and Julian Assange's testimony shows all big tech companies work with the government and intelligent services.

Incorrect. Their testimony showed that *some* big tech companies do. There is zero evidence to believe -- and strong evidence against -- there being hardware "back doors" in Intel and AMD cpus.

 

[TitanX]

I totally agree with banning TikTok for national security reasons. It is a tool that could potentially be used against us. But if you trust the US tech companies never use our information against US citizens or any foreigners, you are naive. Or maybe you just choose to believe because of your patriotism. Ultimately, we are making a decision on where to store our data. The US tech companies must comply with government regulations too. Just like any companies must do for their countries. This is realism.