China's rail gun fires smart bomb at Mach 5 nine miles into the air, test declared a failure

There latest aircraft carrier has more displacement ( bad ) and slower speed ( bad ) that ones USA built much older than myself and have since retired.
Aircraft carriers are WW2 tech -- in modern warfare they're likely to be sitting ducks -- China has invested heavily in anti-carrier and carrier group weapon systems. And regardless, they're only useful for projecting power ... in the Straits of Taiwan or the South China Sea (the most likely areas of conflict) China doesn't need them.

In other areas, such as hypersonic delivery platforms and directed-energy weaponry, China leads the US technology-wise.
 
Aircraft carriers are WW2 tech -- in modern warfare they're likely to be sitting ducks -- China has invested heavily in anti-carrier and carrier group weapon systems. And regardless, they're only useful for projecting power ... in the Straits of Taiwan or the South China Sea (the most likely areas of conflict) China doesn't need them.

In other areas, such as hypersonic delivery platforms and directed-energy weaponry, China leads the US technology-wise.
Citation needed, China has lots of quality control problems . Plus doing military ops is not easy. China has stolen a lot of IP, but struggles to put it into manufacture
China like Russia is probably just a meat grinder system. Killing Uighurs is much easy than China getting smashed by Vietnam

China has enough home problems, may they want to do Putain and attack Taiwan to ramp out fascist control and laws, like Putain has down and is doing.

Would be even more stupid , countries love cheap oil, but happy to forget about chinese cheap consumer stuff . Vietnam, India, Indonesian, thailand can quickly takeover.

Finland and UK looking to blockage Russian oil ships. so that should be a laugh.
 
Citation needed,
Glad to oblige:

Newsweek "US Official Reveals China Has 'World's Leading Hypersonic Arsenal'"


Bloomberg: "China Leads the World in Hypersonic Technology"
Military Watch: "Russia, China Lead the World in Hypersonic Air to Air Missile Technologies"
The Sun UK: "China takes lead in hypersonic arms race "
 
Glad to oblige:

Newsweek "US Official Reveals China Has 'World's Leading Hypersonic Arsenal'"


Bloomberg: "China Leads the World in Hypersonic Technology"
Military Watch: "Russia, China Lead the World in Hypersonic Air to Air Missile Technologies"
The Sun UK: "China takes lead in hypersonic arms race "
Thanks

Here's a more nuanced article

Given The Patriot system can successfully shoot down proven Russian hypersonic missiles.
This made not be the best Patriot system - though imagine USA wanted to see if if could

As the article I posted, it's a more nuanced approach.
Also people like Putain underestimate, the resilience and brutality nations can suffer to continue fighting .
So a hypersonic missile taking out some vital stuff in Taiwan , is quite of irrelevant to whether China wins and the long term war

Plus Chinese always struck me as pragmatic. Like Russia should have just taken over the eastern gas fields and ore deposits, a much more easier and obtainable imperialistic goal

End of day Taiwan is extremely well protected by water. China would need to land millions of troops and establish beach heads take could be supplied 24/7 . No special commando ops of old to seize the local petrol stations will suffice

So it's all really mute . China cutting itself off from all exports to west for some small mountainous islands. they have already stuffed up HK and they were handed that
 
Thanks

Here's a more nuanced article
Goalpost moving noted. You asked for proof China leads on hypersonics. I gave it.

As for that "nuanced" article, Russia's Khinzal barely qualifies as hypersonic; China and Russia both have substantially faster platforms. And so far, Ukraine has downed 1 out of 14 Khinzhal strikes with Patriot batteries ... not a kill rate that inspires confidence.

The Patriot's normal kill rate on SRBMs and MRBMs is reputedly 95%. Hypersonic doesn't mean 'immune' ... it just means far more difficult to intercept, and with far less time to react.

End of day Taiwan is extremely well protected by water. China would need to land millions of troops
And China has *already* requisitioned 2,500 large civilian ships -- in addition to their own Navy -- to press into service in this expected invasion. Not only does China have by far the world's largest Navy, it also leads the world in container ships, each of which could carry two or three entire battalions of troops.
 
Goalpost moving noted. You asked for proof China leads on hypersonics. I gave it.

As for that "nuanced" article, Russia's Khinzal barely qualifies as hypersonic; China and Russia both have substantially faster platforms. And so far, Ukraine has downed 1 out of 14 Khinzhal strikes with Patriot batteries ... not a kill rate that inspires confidence.

The Patriot's normal kill rate on SRBMs and MRBMs is reputedly 95%. Hypersonic doesn't mean 'immune' ... it just means far more difficult to intercept, and with far less time to react.


And China has *already* requisitioned 2,500 large civilian ships -- in addition to their own Navy -- to press into service in this expected invasion. Not only does China have by far the world's largest Navy, it also leads the world in container ships, each of which could carry two or three entire battalions of troops.

I had 15 shot down at beginning of the year, when I checked

Ukranian source.

so now upped again.

But again doesn't change the meta and they nuanced article I posted. These are not the be all end all weapons, just a great tactical high cost option for a specific situation, that won't determine the outcome of a war between ANZUS/NATO/Taiwan/Japan vs China

I generally never read later posts from you, as meaningless - as I feel you only interested to present only one side. I have yet to see a nuanced approach from you. If excess CO2 is both good and bad. You are only interested in point scoring , CO2 is good you will not acknowledge ever that CO2 can be bad for flora and fauna , you can't present evidence to even say even though CO2 can have bad consequences for certain plants , its absolutely wonderful in a highly controlled micro climate of a hothouse.
Or you choose a detail to attack , that changes nothing about the overall meta . Just bores me silly and not a true discussion if you want to show a narrative

I will still agree with you on other topics not so political , or upvote you.
But school debating for point scoring bores me silly and no one else here cares.
 
I had 15 shot down at beginning of the year, when I checked...
After Ukraine downed the first, they began claiming most everything they hit was a Khinzhal, similar to their "we killed 400 assassins sent for Zelensky" claims. There's been only one photo confirmed.

. If excess CO2 is both good and bad. You are only interested in point scoring ... I will still agree with you on other topics not so political
I appreciate your forbearance, so I'll only say this. Certainly increased CO2 has both bad effects and good. I've never denied it. But with literally tens of thousands of articles presenting only the bad side, what point is there in presenting that? The point is that the positive effects of a moderately higher CO2 level exist, and they almost certainly outweigh the negatives.
 
Thanks

Here's a more nuanced article

Given The Patriot system can successfully shoot down proven Russian hypersonic missiles.
This made not be the best Patriot system - though imagine USA wanted to see if if could

As the article I posted, it's a more nuanced approach.
Also people like Putain underestimate, the resilience and brutality nations can suffer to continue fighting .
So a hypersonic missile taking out some vital stuff in Taiwan , is quite of irrelevant to whether China wins and the long term war

Plus Chinese always struck me as pragmatic. Like Russia should have just taken over the eastern gas fields and ore deposits, a much more easier and obtainable imperialistic goal

End of day Taiwan is extremely well protected by water. China would need to land millions of troops and establish beach heads take could be supplied 24/7 . No special commando ops of old to seize the local petrol stations will suffice

So it's all really mute . China cutting itself off from all exports to west for some small mountainous islands. they have already stuffed up HK and they were handed that
There is zero real documented public evidence that a Patriot system has shot down any of the Russian hypersonic missiles, beyond the claims and current war and media propaganda. If the Ukrainian air defense forces report that they have never intercepted an X-22/X-32 that is much slower (and without countermeasures or terminal maneuvers)...
If you later want to believe them that they have done it with one or more Kinshal... "good" for you...
 
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1 photo? there is zero public hard irrefutable evidence. the only photo is the kiev mayor posing next to a BETAB penetrator bomb, with a small hole in it... IF it were the warhead of a hypersonic missile that small impact would have destroyed everything including the warhead... aaa and the Ukrainians have in their old Soviet arsenals BETAB bombs... ...so now you know how to prepare the photo show.
 
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No scientist that's ever studied astrodynamics said such a thing, certainly. Whomever stated this likely confused orbital velocity (~7.8 km/s) with earth's escape velocity of 11.1 km/s. Toss an object from the earth's surface with the first velocity and it'll enter LEO. Toss it with the latter velocity and it'll enter orbit around the sun. Toss it with a velocity > 600 km/s and it'll escape the sun's orbit entirely. (All figures excluding air resistance and a few other minor factors).

As I said, surface launch systems utilizing just this principle are *already* being tested. See:


Fun fact: launch eastward at the earth's equator and you get a free ~0.5 km/s in launch velocity. This is why the US chose a southern state for Cape Canaveral, and why Russia built its first launch facility in Kazakhstan, rather than its own borders.
If you throw an object at orbital velocity FROM THE SURFACE, it will fail to reach orbit since the trajectory intersects the surface of earth (since it started there and has no acceleration of its own). You'd have to throw the object at orbital velocity from a point in space rather than the surface in order to achieve orbit. SpinLaunch is simply using an initial throw to get it MOST of the way to orbit, then the projectile has to undergo its own powered acceleration to circularize the orbit.
 
No scientist that's ever studied astrodynamics said such a thing, certainly. Whomever stated this likely confused orbital velocity (~7.8 km/s) with earth's escape velocity of 11.1 km/s. Toss an object from the earth's surface with the first velocity and it'll enter LEO. Toss it with the latter velocity and it'll enter orbit around the sun. Toss it with a velocity > 600 km/s and it'll escape the sun's orbit entirely. (All figures excluding air resistance and a few other minor factors).

As I said, surface launch systems utilizing just this principle are *already* being tested. See:


Fun fact: launch eastward at the earth's equator and you get a free ~0.5 km/s in launch velocity. This is why the US chose a southern state for Cape Canaveral, and why Russia built its first launch facility in Kazakhstan, rather than its own borders.
a correction. back then there were no "Russian borders". Kazakhstan was part of the Soviet Union, which was the only relevant border. What you say is as if the District of Columbia were to put its space ports in Florida or California, "outside its borders."
 
If you throw an object at orbital velocity FROM THE SURFACE, it will fail to reach orbit since the trajectory intersects the surface of earth (since it started there and has no acceleration of its own). ...
I'm sorry. this isn't true at all. It's true that any orbit reachable directly from earth will be an elliptical orbit -- but it's still an orbit. Even most powered launches go through additional burns to circularize the orbit or to change other orbital parameters.

a correction. back then there were no "Russian borders". Kazakhstan was part of the Soviet Union, which was the only relevant border.
Only in theory. The USSR was nowhere near as homogenous a set of republics as the states of the US are. As just one example, the USSR had "internal passports" which could disallow you from crossing the border between Russia and Kazakhstan. I should know-- I had one.
 
I'm sorry. this isn't true at all. It's true that any orbit reachable directly from earth will be an elliptical orbit -- but it's still an orbit. Even most powered launches go through additional burns to circularize the orbit or to change other orbital parameters.
Let's assume an object is thrown from earth's surface at orbital speeds at an inclination of around 10 degrees above the horizon. If you draw a line following the elliptical trajectory of the projectile, the line would enter space, circle around to the other side of earth, then come back down where it was originally thrown, assuming no air resistance (which would make it not even go that far).

If an object is thrown at a 0 degree inclination (parallel to earth's surface) then assuming no air resistance, it will orbit earth with a periapsis of a height equal to that which the object was originally thrown from.

If you want to test this, use this online tool to simulate orbital mechanics, given starting position and speed vector: https://phet.colorado.edu/sims/html/gravity-and-orbits/latest/gravity-and-orbits_en.html
 
If an object is thrown at a 0 degree inclination (parallel to earth's surface) then assuming no air resistance, it will orbit earth with a periapsis of a height equal to that which the object was originally thrown from.
And an equivalent apoapsis too (assuming minimum orbital velocity). Toss it harder, and you'll have an elliptical orbit with equivalent perigee but larger apogee.

In any case, if you knew this, why did you claim it was impossible?

... If you draw a line following the elliptical trajectory of the projectile, the line would enter space, circle around to the other side of earth, then come back down where it was originally thrown
No. In the case of a non-tangential "toss", the ellipsis intersects the earth's surface while trying to reach that original point from behind .... unless of course you're tall enough that the angle of inclination fails to intersect.
 
China couldn't even manufacture ball bearings for pens for a huge time, needed to import them

There latest aircraft carrier has more displacement ( bad ) and slower speed ( bad ) that ones USA built much older than myself and have since retired. Built on old Soviet designs as well. USSR/Russia has it ever won a naval engagement ?? . TBF Russian modern ones are probably very good, much better than the junk China makes , take need a tug boat entow just encase

China properly can make good steel, but you would need to audit 1 in 5 pieces at least, to see not cheated on.

All the top department stores who had clothes made in China, had people 100% on the ground ensuring continuing quality
Constant and consistent underestimating and denigrating of Chinese manufacturing by the 'West' (which I guess includes tiny insignificant NZ) has proved a great boon to the CCP overall. Pity we keep doing it...
 
And an equivalent apoapsis too (assuming minimum orbital velocity). Toss it harder, and you'll have an elliptical orbit with equivalent perigee but larger apogee.

In any case, if you knew this, why did you claim it was impossible?


No. In the case of a non-tangential "toss", the ellipsis intersects the earth's surface while trying to reach that original point from behind .... unless of course you're tall enough that the angle of inclination fails to intersect.
I claimed it is impossible to reach orbit with only an initial impulse and a starting position on the surface of earth. I then subsequently stated:

"If an object is thrown at a 0 degree inclination (parallel to earth's surface) then assuming no air resistance, it will orbit earth with a periapsis of a height equal to that which the object was originally thrown from."

Note that this is only true with no air resistance, which is of course not possible on the surface of earth. Also, the orbit would be at the height it was thrown from, meaning it would probably collide with terrain.
I made no contradictions.

As far as a non-tangential throw goes, you are correct. The trajectory would impact the earth far sooner than a full orbit. I had been assuming a tangential throw. Small oversight.

No matter how you throw it, you aren't reaching orbit.
 
Note that this is only true with no air resistance...
Oops! That also assumes starting with the minimum energy to reach orbit. With a higher initial velocity *and* accounting for air resistance, a little vector calculus shows that you reach a stable orbit with perigee above the starting position.

Assuming a zero or near-zero initial angle of inclination, air resistance is orthogonal to the gravity vector, which generates a "shallowing" effect. Toss with an angle of inclination slightly greater than zero and enough energy so that, by the time you exit earth's atmosphere you have orbital velocity with zero inclination, and you'll have an orbit with periapsis at that point.
 
Oops! That also assumes starting with the minimum energy to reach orbit. With a higher initial velocity *and* accounting for air resistance, a little vector calculus shows that you reach a stable orbit with perigee above the starting position.

Assuming a zero or near-zero initial angle of inclination, air resistance is orthogonal to the gravity vector, which generates a "shallowing" effect. Toss with an angle of inclination slightly greater than zero and enough energy so that, by the time you exit earth's atmosphere you have orbital velocity with zero inclination, and you'll have an orbit with periapsis at that point.
Where are you getting the additional impulse to raise the apoapsis from surface level to orbital altitude? All deceleration induced by air resistance is encountered only on the way out of the atmosphere, which is right beside the launch point, making a Hohmann transfer impossible. Of course, that's the most efficient method of raising orbit, but the further you get from a perfect Hoehmann, the worse the performance of your chosen transfer method, to the point where if you are exactly opposite the Hoemann transfer, you get no transfer. With the air resistance method you are describing, it happens so far from periapsis that it just won't have nearly enough effect. No chance you're gonna get enough shallowing to raise the apoapsis clear up to the same level as the periapsis. Just no chance. If you have some proof of your claim, hit me with a link.
 
Constant and consistent underestimating and denigrating of Chinese manufacturing by the 'West' (which I guess includes tiny insignificant NZ) has proved a great boon to the CCP overall. Pity we keep doing it...

Lots of smart people in China , and lots of corruption as well. They present an image of gleaming new cities, bridges etc . But they suppress negative stories to the extreme. Bridges failing , tunnels leaking or collapsing etc. Too many corners cut.
The hope was that China and Russia would move to the West , join the fold. But now the CCP is clamping down on freedoms big time.

See how even Intel and Samsung struggle to match TSMC, so experience/know how counts for a lot
There are successful Chinese manufacturers, of the more complicated stuff, they have to really implement good QC and attention to detail
Japan when from crap to a powerhouse
Taiwan and Hong Kong improved immensely after that as well , same for Korea,

For military what I think is irrelevant , I do think Chinese planes are easily lock on flying just outside Taiwan waters and extremely easy to shoot down. Quantity is not everything, a well trained army and well run army has a huge advantage.

Also China talking about peaceful reunification coexisting with propaganda to make the Taiwan flow huge amounts of blood , must be internal consumption, as that crap doesn't work. Why would Taiwanese want to be killed. raped , enslaved, tortured by CCP , no more freedom
The West does not need China , but China needs us, there is the power, they have chosen to to join us. No one expected democracy today , tomorrow, or even 10 years, but they are moving away with a cult propaganda mirroring North Korea for their leader.

If China wants investment and to keep it's best and wealthy it needs stability and certainty, unfortunately the rulers in charge like power more.

I enjoyed my times in China and the people, easy to show pushy rude Chinese tourists overseas, that's just a learning curve, same as white South Africans matured a lot after opening up - from apartheid times . you stand there I'll tell you how it is, to now lets have discussion.

Most Chinese don't have much faith in Chinese products compared to the western ones.

But like I said many smart and ambitious people in China, if they pay attention to details and getting it right , then they can compete very well

I do wonder if export cars are made to a higher standard, than those sold internally

Interesting times, now mainly all are waiting to see what CCP will do. I wouldn't build a manufacturing plant there . Simpler to have companies like TCL/Foxconn ( a Taiwanese company ) etc build it for you in China , with your QC on the ground

Chinese does a lot of posturing does anti this country or that campaigns eg anti-Japanese , how the Communist party trashed Japan in the war , yeah right , think they hardly fought the Japanese. But the are also pragmatic, and that says they need to work with Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the West
 
Where are you getting the additional impulse to raise the apoapsis from surface level to orbital altitude? All deceleration induced by air resistance is encountered only on the way out of the atmosphere, which is right beside the launch point, making a Hohmann transfer impossible.
In this case, there is no 'apoapsis at surface level' for the same reason an in-plane orbital transfer like a Hohmann isn't relevant: you're not at a stable orbit yet. I'm not going to try to represent a series of patched conics in this forum, but I believe I can explain it in a non-mathematical manner that should convince you.

Let's assume a toss with initial velocity 11,300 m/s sec an object shaped so that, when it exits the atmosphere air resistance (and gravity) have reduced its velocity to 7800 m/s. Initially, Q>2 so the orbit is hyperbolic (escaping), but the conic decays to Q=1 at t atmosphere edge. Because our trajectory is ballistic, this is equivalent to our starting at this point and tossing an object at the same 7800 m/s. Now, we also assume our initial toss began with inclination chosen so that, by the time we reach this point, atmospheric drag had reduced that inclination=0. Bingo -- we're in a circular orbit with perigee at that point.

Obviously there are a number of practical reasons why this is extremely difficult -- for one, a hyperbolic velocity at the point the earth's atmosphere is thickest would generate much more heat than a space shuttle reentry. But there are no theoretical ones.
 
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