CPU question

By JoeyT ยท 42 replies
Oct 28, 2010
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  1. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,023   +2,555

    ATI card numbers don't make a whole lot of sense. Fact is, they're not supposed to. The 5450 is a weak 64 bit memory access card, mostly for home theater work. Here's one from Newegg; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877 it's $41.00 USD. So, the 4830 is way more potent than that

    So, you're supposed to think the higher number is better, but in this case, all it means is the card has DX11, which would be for Windows 7.

    I think the 4830 is DX-10, and that goes with Vista. Yes, they're all backwards compatible with the DX-9 of XP.

    I'm not exactly sure which card to steer you toward, but our other members might know a bit more. Save for the wicked battle I had last night with "Maven" in "Scrabble", I'm not really much of a gamer.
  2. red1776

    red1776 Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe Posts: 5,224   +164

    yup,yup,yup, and the 4830 is DX10.1 capable. it also has 8x the SPU's that the 5450 has 640-80. The 5450 is technically DX11, but does not have the horsepower to make use of it.
  3. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 3,448   +145

    Hey, that's not something you always see.
  4. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Well thats a shame. Puts pay to my usual technique of picking the highest number I can afford.
    I'm on XP still so back compatible is important.

    Shall I repost in a more appropriate sub-forum as this is now a graphics question?
  5. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 3,448   +145

    Eh...did we not provide a solution?
  6. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    I wasn't sure. You (collectively) pointed me towards the 4830, but I thought that was just an example of something better than my current GPU as opposed to a recommendation for best option. As I mentioned that card doesn't seem to be easy to get hold of here so I was hoping for an alternative.
  7. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,023   +2,555

    I don't see the necessity of moving the thread, although I suppose you could if you you so desire. I'm thinking we started here, we finish here.

    The ATI 4XXX series is last generation, the 5XXX series is current, and the 6XXX series is now available. (To a certain extent). As I said 5XXX cards have DX-11, whereas 4XXX are DX-10. That said if you put a 4XXX card in a computer running Windows 7, you will still have only DX-10. A card from any reasonably current series, will be fully backward compatible with XP. I's not exactly an issue of the card, it's obtaining the correct video driver software.

    That said, the HD 4830, or HD 4850 would be great. If you can find an Nvidia 9800GT that would be OK, from Nvidia's newer cards a GT-250, or a GTS-450. I'm stumped as to which ATI 5XXX card you could look at, maybe somebody else has an idea.

    In any event THE ATI HD 5750 and HD 5770 match up with the HD 4830 and HD 4850's stream processor counts (720 and 800 respectively), but they're only 128 bit memory access vs, 256 bit, and I'd be willing to bet that would be an interesting discussion on the relative merits of that. With that said, those are a couple of possibilities.

    The Nvidia GT-460 is pretty much everybody's darling right now, but it is, I fear, out of your budget.

    In any event, most of those cards would require a fairly substantial PSU, (400 to 450 watts), something you might want to consider before you get your heart set on one of the higher priced VGA offerings.
  8. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Ok then. I've found this: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-007-HS
    so I'll be going with the HD4850 at some point in the next week or 2. The DX-10/11 issue doesn't bother me back here on XP and the price is just about right.
    Thanks a lot everyone. I'm sure I'll see you again with more stupid questions soon enough.
  9. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 3,448   +145

    I'm pretty sure you would have to replace your powersupply for a 4850. Around $60 USD.
  10. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Ok good to know in advance. Well you can guess the next question then - either a card that wouldn't require a power supply replacement or a reasonable psu (/power range)
  11. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,023   +2,555

    A more recent card that would have lower power requirements, yet equal performance to the HD-4580 would likely be more money.

    One of these would do the trick; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006&Tpk=Antec EA430 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371035

    There also was an "Antec-EA-430D" model, that came without the cord, it might be a few bucks cheaper. (I know this because I have one). But I couldn't find it at Newegg's site.

    Keep in mind that these PSUs are frequently on sale, so be a bit patient.

    I checked your site (overclockers.uk) and the Antec PSUs are quite high, I'm wondering if anybody thinks this Corsair might be good; http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-034-CS
  12. hellokitty[hk]

    hellokitty[hk] Hello, nice to meet you! Posts: 3,448   +145

    Here it is, and it's $5 more expensive.

    Either of those three will serve you fine, whatever's cheaper IMO.
    EDIT: Ok, it's $5 more expensive ATM.
  13. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,023   +2,555

    This is a bit moot though, since our OP is in the UK. There, the Corsair 500 is cheaper than the Antec EA-430. Check his link to "overclockers.uk", you'll see

    My assessment of perhaps a bit cheaper, was based on the fact that Newegg had been running the EA-430D on sale more frequently the the older EA-430 model. As it turns out, Newegg just blew the EA-430D out @ $45.95, with a $15.00 MIR. OK...? So now I have one of each.
  14. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Ok then, that 'should' be everything I need to know. I'll come running back if I have any major issues or question. Thanks again everyone.
  15. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    It seems I spoke too soon. The psu and gpu haven't arrived yet so no issues with them but the overclocking is proving troublesome.
    The software overclock is a write off as there appears to be no way of saving your settings, and the options are rather limited.
    I've therefore dabbled with working from the BIO, but there again I have an issue. fsb<295 is fine, but anything over that won't start and requires a cmos clear.
    A brief browse has led me to a couple of possible solutions which haven't fixed it, including taking the ram timing off auto to 5-5-5-15. I've also seen changing the divider recommended but I don't know where this option would be.
  16. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,023   +2,555

    Why don't you just leave the CPU at stock for the time being, and see how the video card improves your machine on its own?

    Some RAM won't overclock as well as others, period.

    Besides, the faster you run the RAM, the looser the timings need to be. (I think).

    What you haven't stated yet, is what was the CPU clock speed when the system locked up?

    Also, RAM needs to be over-volted slightly to run faster than stock. For example, the generic spec for DDR2, is 1.85 volts. But, most or all of the RAM that uses that voltage, won't go past 800Mhz. Most DDR2 1066Mhz RAM, requires about 2.1 volts, or it will default to running @800 Mhz! Here again, some RAM won't take the higher voltage, and you're going into a, "ride at your own risk" scenario.

    However, your CPU is 1066FSB I believe. So your memory is already running @ 1066, (I think). So, cranking the FSB up with that speed in place, requires high performance RAM since your memory is going to be running in the 1200 to 1300Mhz range.

    But, as I said, I wouldn't get all worked up over this just yet, see how the 4850 works out by itself with the games you want to play.

    Another quick question, is this an Award BIOS?
  17. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,891   +1,264

    Solid advice. Keep everything stock for a while at least. If you run into any unforeseen performance problems or the refitted system starts throwing errors then it's one less branch on the troubleshooting tree to have to explore.
    Some RAM won't overclock at all. Running the RAM and FSB using 1:1 is usually a advantageous route. At 1:1 . If the RAM is DDR2-800 CL5 you can pretty much rule out overclocking it for bandwidth (speed) . 4-4-4-12 timings at DDR2-800 will equate to 5-5-5-15 at DDR2-1066, while a lot of 5-5-5-15 (or 5-5-5-15) DDR2-800 wont go much faster even if you relax the timings out to 6-6-6-18+. The added latency from CL/CAS 6 negates the increased speed/bandwidth.
    Pretty much, unless you opt for well binned performance RAM. Unfortunately the Foxconn board doesn't allow fine tuning of RAM values (especially tWR/ performance level) just the four major values -CL, tRCD, tRP and tRAS.

    For your stock CPU the FSB is 1066MHz. Divide by four (FSB is quad-pumped) equals a core/bus speed of 266MHz. The BIOS options for the board I think are the same as the Gigabyte P965-DS3/-4/-5 so...
    1.00 = DDR2-533 (bus speed x 2) for Double Data Rate2
    1.11 = DDR2-592
    1.20 = DDR2-640
    1.25 = DDR2-667
    1.33 = DDR2-709
    1.50 = DDR2-800
    Yes. Phoenix-Award. Slightly less optioned than the Gigabyte BIOS for the same chipset. The overclock/performance tab is (bombastically) called "Fox Central Control Unit" -instead of M.I.T.

    Word of caution. You will see a section in the BIOS called "Fox Intelligent Stepping" -Foxconn's auto one-step overclocking. In a word...Garbage. The utility sets timings and voltage according to your star sign and the average rainfall figures for Guatemala with a few random numbers thrown in. Using this utility should ensure that you will never be at a loss for new and interesting ways to screw up the system.
    Always overclock manually in the BIOS. Once your base values have been revised (bus speed, DRAM voltage/timings etc.) change only one setting at a time, test for stability before changing any further values.
  18. JoeyT

    JoeyT TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Sounds reasonable, I'll contain my enthusiasm for a few more days until my new toys arrive.

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