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Cryptocurrency miners help AMD close gap on Nvidia in GPU market

By midian182 ยท 47 replies
Feb 28, 2018
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  1. Foobario

    Foobario TS Rookie

    Neither AMD or Nvidia can control who buys their cards other than feeding the OEM channel first, which is what AMD has done.

    I'm surprised miners haven't resorted to buying prebuilt HP, Lenovo or Dell machines with RX 580s and taking the GPU out and selling the memory and motherboard online. With the elevated memory prices it seems they could get the GPU cheaper after selling off the rest of the PC.
  2. dj2017

    dj2017 TS Addict Posts: 131   +114

    I have to say that mining keeps saving AMD, from a financial perspective.

    A few years back all the press attacks AMD for it's new reference 290X/290 cards. Back then the press was full of Nvidia/Intel love and was using AMD as the easy target to prove that it doesn't do any favors to big companies. What happened? ALL AMD cards get sold to miners, AMD gets a nice financial boost instead of suffering a disaster after those negative reviews of the reference cards.

    Now, Vega 64 is too little too late. Almost no one would choose it over a Pascal card, except in the case of someone already having a very expensive Freesync monitor. What happens? ALL Vega cards are selling like hot cakes to miners.

    One more thing. Thanks to mining and ridiculous pricing on graphics cards, AMD has a unique opportunity to becoming the queen of the low end gaming market. I really hope they are already testing desktop Ryzen APUs with more than 1000 stream processors.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  3. Dimitrios

    Dimitrios TS Maniac Posts: 232   +141

    Yup I gotta say this will help APU's. Miners don't want them and the new ones actually have good benchmarks. I would rather pop in a new bad a$$ APU every 2-4 for $100-$180 to play games on Medium-High settings ad once the bottleneck is serious resell it and buy another one! Cheaper then spending it on a Videocard that the way were going will be $400-$600 for a mid grade one and lucky if you can find it! I hate APU's but with my wallet and anger I will give up on video cards unless something changes.
  4. Danny101

    Danny101 TS Guru Posts: 529   +202

  5. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    So? AMD mid range cards are sold out, Nvidia cards are not. That's because AMD cards has more demand and so AMD got more market share in expense of Nvidia. Simple.

    It is debatable as AM is much better for DX12/Vulkan games.

    AMD made more powerful GPU and not surprisingly miners bought them all. Also when looking for latest features and performance using latest features, AMD wins despite manufacturing process is somewhat inferior compared to Nvidia. To summarize: Nvidia is years behind AMD just like I said.
  6. QuantumPhysics

    QuantumPhysics TS Maniac Posts: 261   +174

    Nvidia's cards are more powerful, operate better under load, have better thermal management, operate better when paired with the most popular Intel Core CPU and have higher quality.

    AMD was the second best choice.
    Lower prices, lesser performance and pair well with budget AMD CPU computer builds.
    Cryptomining made it possible for them to sell more cards than they ever dreamed of.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  7. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 10,797   +4,605

    Well someone needed to find a use for AMD graphics cards.
  8. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    Yeah really. Same manufacturers make both Nvidia and AMD cards (except reference ones) "(y)"

    AMD cards are suitable for cryptomining because they are much more powerful. It's not coincidence.
  9. QuantumPhysics

    QuantumPhysics TS Maniac Posts: 261   +174

    I'll ask you to refer to TECHSPOT's own benchmarking.

    They show that the AMD equivalent of an Nvidia card does not perform as well and has lesser thermal management. That's Techspot's own testing.

    Please do me this favor:

    show me AMD's equivalent of my Titan Xp. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

    show me AMD's equivalent of the 1080Ti. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

    show me AMD's equivalent of the 1070. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

    show me AMD's equivalent of my 1060. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.
    Darth Shiv likes this.
  10. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    Techspot's benchmarking is light load for GPU's. Nvidia is good for light load and because it's much less powerful chip, it also got good thermals.

    When switching to heavy load like cryptomining, Nvidia have no chance.

    It's somewhat same situation like putting dual core CPU vs 32 core server chip. On light load dual core is very probably much faster. But when switching to heavy load, server chip is miles better.

    So saying AMD is not more powerful chip because AMD is slower on light game that uses graphic API based on DirectX 9 from 2003, does not make much sense.
    TempleOrion and Jules Mark like this.
  11. QuantumPhysics

    QuantumPhysics TS Maniac Posts: 261   +174

    Cryptomining is an illegitimate use for a "gaming graphics card".
    Until Techspot specifically benchmarks GPU specifically for cryptomining I'm dismissing your claim and striking it from the record as irrelevant.

    I specifically am focused on gaming performance. Thus far Techspot's benchmarks show clear advantages for Nvidia.

    If AMD has any advantages in cryptomining it's that they are able to be overclocked with less fear of burnouts since they were cheap to begin with.
    Boilerhog146 and cliffordcooley like this.
  12. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    Modern AMD GPU is more general purpose graphic chip than just graphic chip. That makes it more powerful than Nvidia chips that are made more for gaming only.

    Minders already decided AMD is better, we don't need Techspot review to confirm that.

    For gaming performance, AMD has edge on modern titles. That matters much more than performance on non modern titles.

    AMD has edge on cryptomining, even without overclocking.

    This whole thing is much more complicated than just reading benchmark results...
    TempleOrion likes this.
  13. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,914   +540

    Back it up.

    Miners want ROI. If NVIDIA prices are over-inflated, of course they'll pick AMD. That in no way means AMD has better performance so straight out that's a logical fallacy.

    Gaming performance, what games are you talking? Does AMD outperform the 1080Ti? In what games?

    The thing about general purpose GPUs is that in CPU/GPU architecture, Intel won the war on CPUs because the RISC processors (which were general) were inferior to dedicated instruction sets/extensions (referring to PowerPC). Just because a GPU is general purpose, doesn't mean it will be better for mining. Case in point - Intel tried a more gen purpose GPU (Larrabee) and it was an unmitigated disaster. Specialising, when you target the right things, is FAR more efficient.

    Not if you are looking at the right benchmarks. So back up your stance... I'm far from convinced that your points are any more than hand-waving at this stage.
    Boilerhog146 and QuantumPhysics like this.
  14. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    So Nvidia fans here try to claim Nvidia is better for mining even when miners know AMD is better? Jesus. Miners buy every AMD cards avalable, that's why AMD prices are even more over-inflated than Nvidia prices. Only reason miners buy Nvidia is because there are not enough AMD cards available. If we imagine NVIDIA and AMD both have unlimited supply, miners would buy 99.9% AMD.

    Look at DirectX 12/Vulkan titles (those not optimized for netiher AMD or Nvidia) AMD vs 1080. 1080 Ti is much bigger chip than 1080 and also was much more expensive, so it goes into different category. On GPU's bigger chip always helps.

    It's not that simple. Intel's CPU's have been internally RISC CPU's since Pentium Pro. It's more about budget. If like one company has, say, 10 billion budget for developing CISC chip that is internally RISC and another company have 100 million budget developing RISC chip, it's not hard to guess who wins. IBM didn't put much resources for PowerPC. If you were right about CISC's awesomeness, then Intel would dominate mobile market. However ARM rules there using RISC. Intel didn't succeed despite offering chips for free.

    Nvidia intentionally strpped gaming line of GPU's to be more gaming, less general purpose chips. That's main reason why AMD is much better for mining. So it's not coincidence that miners favor AMD. Where did you actually get idea AMD chips are not better for mining?

    Af for Larrabee, combining Pentium cores with vector units doesn't sound wise idea. Neither was Itanium's idea about compiler doing most work. For those very obvious reasons both were disasters. I wasn't surpised at all.

    How do you define right benchmarks? If DirectX 12/Vulkan benchmarks are not most important, then we should stay with DirectX 11 indefinitely. Technology must go forward.
    TempleOrion and Jules Mark like this.
  15. TempleOrion

    TempleOrion TS Enthusiast Posts: 29   +20

    Ahh that old chestnut, the ever reliable steam hardware survey LOL smh
    HardReset likes this.
  16. QuantumPhysics

    QuantumPhysics TS Maniac Posts: 261   +174

    considering how many games are downloaded on STEAM, why wouldn't their survey be trustworthy?
  17. Charles Olson

    Charles Olson TS Enthusiast Posts: 37   +7

    Has the 1080 and 1080 Ti combined gained over 2% on there yet ?
  18. Charles Olson

    Charles Olson TS Enthusiast Posts: 37   +7

    Nope 1.05% for the 1080 and 0.47% for the 1080 Ti !
  19. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    Survey is not offered for all users and participating is voluntary.
    Charles Olson likes this.
  20. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,914   +540

    LOL VERY FEW people looking at a 1080 will go a 1080 vanilla over a Ti. Why? Because they want PERFORMANCE. Which AMD can't compete with. You just dodged the comparison. Gold!

    I'm seeing an awful lot of hand waving on those arguments. Supply/demand. That's high school economics buddy. That does NOT have ANYTHING to do with which one is the more powerful chip. Crypto-mining is ALL about ROI.

    If you are a gamer who has money to burn, the fact is NVIDIA beats AMD. Still true today. Still true yesterday. Let's see about tomorrow but I for one am not holding my breath. AMD has disappointed for a long time now.

    And yes I was a massive AMD fan up to the HD4870. But AMD kept fumbling. They lost a lot of market for good reason. Their product wasn't up to par.
    QuantumPhysics likes this.
  21. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    So everyone that can afford GTX 1080 can afford 1080 Ti? Unlimited money, great!

    So you claim AMD chips does not have better ROI because AMD chips are more powerful? Then where that better ROI comes from? *nerd*
  22. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,914   +540

    No ROI is computations / $. A cryptominer doesn't care about PEAK performance per card. If they can buy 4 cheap cards to get the same performance as the top card on the market for half the total price, that's better ROI.

    So again, ROI is not about peak performance. AMD does not have peak performance superiority. Cryptominers don't want peak performance. They want ROI.

    Is that so hard to understand???
  23. HardReset

    HardReset TS Guru Posts: 619   +249

    Oh really? Using your logic Cryptominers would have bought cheap cards but it seems all high end cards are low supply but low end cards are widely available. So your logic simply sucks "(y)"

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