Cryptocurrency miners help AMD close gap on Nvidia in GPU market

[Foobario]

IMO, the slight shift in GPU market share towards AMD only shows that they saw the opportunity to sell some GPUs by marketing them to miners, to the detriment of their loyal gaming fan base. Despite their press releases to the contrary, they did nothing to ensure stock was available to gaming customers, and all their recent cards have been very hard to find since launch. This was perhaps a smart financial move by AMD, but certainly at the cost of alienating many of their (previously) rabidly loyal customers. That's why I have to laugh every time someone says that AMD loves their fans and does everything for their customers, unlike those greedy evil NVIDIA scumbags. The only love is for money, on both sides.

Neither AMD or Nvidia can control who buys their cards other than feeding the OEM channel first, which is what AMD has done.

I'm surprised miners haven't resorted to buying prebuilt HP, Lenovo or Dell machines with RX 580s and taking the GPU out and selling the memory and motherboard online. With the elevated memory prices it seems they could get the GPU cheaper after selling off the rest of the PC.

 

[dj2017]

I have to say that mining keeps saving AMD, from a financial perspective.

A few years back all the press attacks AMD for it's new reference 290X/290 cards. Back then the press was full of Nvidia/Intel love and was using AMD as the easy target to prove that it doesn't do any favors to big companies. What happened? ALL AMD cards get sold to miners, AMD gets a nice financial boost instead of suffering a disaster after those negative reviews of the reference cards.

Now, Vega 64 is too little too late. Almost no one would choose it over a Pascal card, except in the case of someone already having a very expensive Freesync monitor. What happens? ALL Vega cards are selling like hot cakes to miners.

One more thing. Thanks to mining and ridiculous pricing on graphics cards, AMD has a unique opportunity to becoming the queen of the low end gaming market. I really hope they are already testing desktop Ryzen APUs with more than 1000 stream processors.

 

[Dimitrios]

I have to say that mining keeps saving AMD, from a financial perspective.

A few years back all the press attacks AMD for it's new reference 290X/290 cards. Back then the press was full of Nvidia/Intel love and was using AMD as the easy target to prove that it doesn't do any favors to big companies. What happened? ALL AMD cards get sold to miners, AMD gets a nice financial boost instead of suffering a disaster after those negative reviews of the reference cards.

Now, Vega 64 is too little too late. Almost no one would choose it over a Pascal card, except in the case of someone already having a very expensive Freesync monitor. What happens? ALL Vega cards are selling like hot cakes on miners.

One more thing. Thanks to mining and ridiculous pricing on graphics cards, AMD has a unique opportunity to becoming the quin of the low end gaming market. I really hope they are already testing desktop Ryzen APUs with more than 1000 stream processors.

Yup I gotta say this will help APU's. Miners don't want them and the new ones actually have good benchmarks. I would rather pop in a new bad a$$ APU every 2-4 for $100-$180 to play games on Medium-High settings ad once the bottleneck is serious resell it and buy another one! Cheaper then spending it on a Videocard that the way were going will be $400-$600 for a mid grade one and lucky if you can find it! I hate APU's but with my wallet and anger I will give up on video cards unless something changes.

 

[Danny101]

Apart from the time it WAS under someone's control.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/business/dealbook/bitcoin-china.html

Interesting. The last thing we need is Chinese control.

 

[HardReset]

Have you seen the supply/demand for nvidia cards lately? They are priced at almost DOUBLE what the same line of cards were 2 years ago. That might have something to do with it...

So? AMD mid range cards are sold out, Nvidia cards are not. That's because AMD cards has more demand and so AMD got more market share in expense of Nvidia. Simple.

By comparison in terms of gaming? It WAS a flop. Its not even debatable in performance and hard numbers.
By your logic, crytomining sales alone somehow magically make AMD's flagship gpu comparable to Nvidia's flagship gpu?? Once again, SALES dont make it a better stronger, more powerful gpu. Furthermore its safe to assume the majority of gamers dont give a sh*t about mining, they by a gpu for ......thats right, gaming. Very clever you are. SMH.
I'll buy whatever card is the best, regardless of which company makes it and AMD isnt even worth considering for my money.

It is debatable as AM is much better for DX12/Vulkan games.

AMD made more powerful GPU and not surprisingly miners bought them all. Also when looking for latest features and performance using latest features, AMD wins despite manufacturing process is somewhat inferior compared to Nvidia. To summarize: Nvidia is years behind AMD just like I said.

 

[QuantumPhysics]

Nvidia's cards are more powerful, operate better under load, have better thermal management, operate better when paired with the most popular Intel Core CPU and have higher quality.

AMD was the second best choice.
Lower prices, lesser performance and pair well with budget AMD CPU computer builds.
Cryptomining made it possible for them to sell more cards than they ever dreamed of.

 

[cliffordcooley]

crptomining made it possible for them to sell more cards than they ever dreamed of.

Well someone needed to find a use for AMD graphics cards.

 

[HardReset]

Nvidia's cards are more powerful and higher quality.
AMD was the second best choice, and crptomining made it possible for them to sell more cards than they ever dreamed of.

Yeah really. Same manufacturers make both Nvidia and AMD cards (except reference ones) "(y)"

AMD cards are suitable for cryptomining because they are much more powerful. It's not coincidence.

 

[QuantumPhysics]

Yeah really. Same manufacturers make both Nvidia and AMD cards (except reference ones) "(y)"

AMD cards are suitable for cryptomining because they are much more powerful. It's not coincidence.

I'll ask you to refer to TECHSPOT's own benchmarking.

They show that the AMD equivalent of an Nvidia card does not perform as well and has lesser thermal management. That's Techspot's own testing.

Please do me this favor:

show me AMD's equivalent of my Titan Xp. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of the 1080Ti. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of the 1070. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of my 1060. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

 

[HardReset]

I'll ask you to refer to TECHSPOT's own benchmarking.

They show that the AMD equivalent of an Nvidia card does not perform as well and has lesser thermal management. That's Techspot's own testing.

Please do me this favor:

show me AMD's equivalent of my Titan Xp. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of the 1080Ti. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of the 1070. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

show me AMD's equivalent of my 1060. Then show me benchmarks of the comparison.

Techspot's benchmarking is light load for GPU's. Nvidia is good for light load and because it's much less powerful chip, it also got good thermals.

When switching to heavy load like cryptomining, Nvidia have no chance.

It's somewhat same situation like putting dual core CPU vs 32 core server chip. On light load dual core is very probably much faster. But when switching to heavy load, server chip is miles better.

So saying AMD is not more powerful chip because AMD is slower on light game that uses graphic API based on DirectX 9 from 2003, does not make much sense.

 

[QuantumPhysics]

Techspot's benchmarking is light load for GPU's. Nvidia is good for light load and because it's much less powerful chip, it also got good thermals.

When switching to heavy load like cryptomining, Nvidia have no chance.

It's somewhat same situation like putting dual core CPU vs 32 core server chip. On light load dual core is very probably much faster. But when switching to heavy load, server chip is miles better.

So saying AMD is not more powerful chip because AMD is slower on light game that uses graphic API based on DirectX 9 from 2003, does not make much sense.

Cryptomining is an illegitimate use for a "gaming graphics card".
Until Techspot specifically benchmarks GPU specifically for cryptomining I'm dismissing your claim and striking it from the record as irrelevant.

I specifically am focused on gaming performance. Thus far Techspot's benchmarks show clear advantages for Nvidia.

If AMD has any advantages in cryptomining it's that they are able to be overclocked with less fear of burnouts since they were cheap to begin with.

 

[HardReset]

Cryptomining is an illegitimate use for a "gaming graphics card".
Until Techspot specifically benchmarks GPU specifically for cryptomining I'm dismissing your claim and striking it from the record as irrelevant.

I specifically am focused on gaming performance. Thus far Techspot's benchmarks show clear advantages for Nvidia.

If AMD has any advantages in cryptomining it's that they are able to be overclocked with less fear of burnouts since they were cheap to begin with.

Modern AMD GPU is more general purpose graphic chip than just graphic chip. That makes it more powerful than Nvidia chips that are made more for gaming only.

Minders already decided AMD is better, we don't need Techspot review to confirm that.

For gaming performance, AMD has edge on modern titles. That matters much more than performance on non modern titles.

AMD has edge on cryptomining, even without overclocking.

This whole thing is much more complicated than just reading benchmark results...

 

[Darth Shiv]

Modern AMD GPU is more general purpose graphic chip than just graphic chip. That makes it more powerful than Nvidia chips that are made more for gaming only.

Minders already decided AMD is better, we don't need Techspot review to confirm that.

For gaming performance, AMD has edge on modern titles. That matters much more than performance on non modern titles.

AMD has edge on cryptomining, even without overclocking.

Back it up.

Miners want ROI. If NVIDIA prices are over-inflated, of course they'll pick AMD. That in no way means AMD has better performance so straight out that's a logical fallacy.

Gaming performance, what games are you talking? Does AMD outperform the 1080Ti? In what games?

The thing about general purpose GPUs is that in CPU/GPU architecture, Intel won the war on CPUs because the RISC processors (which were general) were inferior to dedicated instruction sets/extensions (referring to PowerPC). Just because a GPU is general purpose, doesn't mean it will be better for mining. Case in point - Intel tried a more gen purpose GPU (Larrabee) and it was an unmitigated disaster. Specialising, when you target the right things, is FAR more efficient.

This whole thing is much more complicated than just reading benchmark results...

Not if you are looking at the right benchmarks. So back up your stance... I'm far from convinced that your points are any more than hand-waving at this stage.

 

[HardReset]

Back it up.

Miners want ROI. If NVIDIA prices are over-inflated, of course they'll pick AMD. That in no way means AMD has better performance so straight out that's a logical fallacy.

So Nvidia fans here try to claim Nvidia is better for mining even when miners know AMD is better? Jesus. Miners buy every AMD cards avalable, that's why AMD prices are even more over-inflated than Nvidia prices. Only reason miners buy Nvidia is because there are not enough AMD cards available. If we imagine NVIDIA and AMD both have unlimited supply, miners would buy 99.9% AMD.

Gaming performance, what games are you talking? Does AMD outperform the 1080Ti? In what games?

The thing about general purpose GPUs is that in CPU/GPU architecture, Intel won the war on CPUs because the RISC processors (which were general) were inferior to dedicated instruction sets/extensions (referring to PowerPC). Just because a GPU is general purpose, doesn't mean it will be better for mining. Case in point - Intel tried a more gen purpose GPU (Larrabee) and it was an unmitigated disaster. Specialising, when you target the right things, is FAR more efficient.

Look at DirectX 12/Vulkan titles (those not optimized for netiher AMD or Nvidia) AMD vs 1080. 1080 Ti is much bigger chip than 1080 and also was much more expensive, so it goes into different category. On GPU's bigger chip always helps.

It's not that simple. Intel's CPU's have been internally RISC CPU's since Pentium Pro. It's more about budget. If like one company has, say, 10 billion budget for developing CISC chip that is internally RISC and another company have 100 million budget developing RISC chip, it's not hard to guess who wins. IBM didn't put much resources for PowerPC. If you were right about CISC's awesomeness, then Intel would dominate mobile market. However ARM rules there using RISC. Intel didn't succeed despite offering chips for free.

Nvidia intentionally strpped gaming line of GPU's to be more gaming, less general purpose chips. That's main reason why AMD is much better for mining. So it's not coincidence that miners favor AMD. Where did you actually get idea AMD chips are not better for mining?

Af for Larrabee, combining Pentium cores with vector units doesn't sound wise idea. Neither was Itanium's idea about compiler doing most work. For those very obvious reasons both were disasters. I wasn't surpised at all.

Not if you are looking at the right benchmarks. So back up your stance... I'm far from convinced that your points are any more than hand-waving at this stage.

How do you define right benchmarks? If DirectX 12/Vulkan benchmarks are not most important, then we should stay with DirectX 11 indefinitely. Technology must go forward.

 

[TempleOrion]

Quick look at steam hardware survey and it seems like AMD is slipping into oblivion for gamers as time passes, GTX 1060 owners alone account for almost 2x the owners of all AMD video cards

Ahh that old chestnut, the ever reliable steam hardware survey LOL smh

 

[QuantumPhysics]

Ahh that old chestnut, the ever reliable steam hardware survey LOL smh

considering how many games are downloaded on STEAM, why wouldn't their survey be trustworthy?

 

[Charles Olson]

Quick look at steam hardware survey and it seems like AMD is slipping into oblivion for gamers as time passes, GTX 1060 owners alone account for almost 2x the owners of all AMD video cards

Has the 1080 and 1080 Ti combined gained over 2% on there yet ?

 

[Charles Olson]

Quick look at steam hardware survey and it seems like AMD is slipping into oblivion for gamers as time passes, GTX 1060 owners alone account for almost 2x the owners of all AMD video cards

Has the 1080 and 1080 Ti combined gained over 2% on there yet ?

Nope 1.05% for the 1080 and 0.47% for the 1080 Ti !

 

[HardReset]

considering how many games are downloaded on STEAM, why wouldn't their survey be trustworthy?

Survey is not offered for all users and participating is voluntary.

 

[Darth Shiv]

Look at DirectX 12/Vulkan titles (those not optimized for netiher AMD or Nvidia) AMD vs 1080. 1080 Ti is much bigger chip than 1080 and also was much more expensive, so it goes into different category. On GPU's bigger chip always helps.

LOL VERY FEW people looking at a 1080 will go a 1080 vanilla over a Ti. Why? Because they want PERFORMANCE. Which AMD can't compete with. You just dodged the comparison. Gold!

I'm seeing an awful lot of hand waving on those arguments. Supply/demand. That's high school economics buddy. That does NOT have ANYTHING to do with which one is the more powerful chip. Crypto-mining is ALL about ROI.

If you are a gamer who has money to burn, the fact is NVIDIA beats AMD. Still true today. Still true yesterday. Let's see about tomorrow but I for one am not holding my breath. AMD has disappointed for a long time now.

And yes I was a massive AMD fan up to the HD4870. But AMD kept fumbling. They lost a lot of market for good reason. Their product wasn't up to par.

 

[HardReset]

LOL VERY FEW people looking at a 1080 will go a 1080 vanilla over a Ti. Why? Because they want PERFORMANCE. Which AMD can't compete with. You just dodged the comparison. Gold!

So everyone that can afford GTX 1080 can afford 1080 Ti? Unlimited money, great!

I'm seeing an awful lot of hand waving on those arguments. Supply/demand. That's high school economics buddy. That does NOT have ANYTHING to do with which one is the more powerful chip. Crypto-mining is ALL about ROI.

So you claim AMD chips does not have better ROI because AMD chips are more powerful? Then where that better ROI comes from?

 

[Darth Shiv]

So you claim AMD chips does not have better ROI because AMD chips are more powerful? Then where that better ROI comes from?

No ROI is computations / $. A cryptominer doesn't care about PEAK performance per card. If they can buy 4 cheap cards to get the same performance as the top card on the market for half the total price, that's better ROI.

So again, ROI is not about peak performance. AMD does not have peak performance superiority. Cryptominers don't want peak performance. They want ROI.

Is that so hard to understand???

 

[HardReset]

No ROI is computations / $. A cryptominer doesn't care about PEAK performance per card. If they can buy 4 cheap cards to get the same performance as the top card on the market for half the total price, that's better ROI.

So again, ROI is not about peak performance. AMD does not have peak performance superiority. Cryptominers don't want peak performance. They want ROI.

Is that so hard to understand???

Oh really? Using your logic Cryptominers would have bought cheap cards but it seems all high end cards are low supply but low end cards are widely available. So your logic simply sucks "(y)"