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DirectX 12 to launch with Windows 10 next year

By Scorpus ยท 20 replies
Oct 3, 2014
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  1. If you've been following Windows releases closely over the past decade, the news that DirectX 12 will be included with the final version of Windows 10 won't come as a massive surprise. Microsoft recently confirmed this news in a blog post,...

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  2. Next year but end, near Xmas.
  3. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 10,797   +4,605

    After a year or two of game development this might be a reason to move on from Windows 7. Lets hope I can get passed my few dislikes for Windows 10.
  4. Lurker101

    Lurker101 TS Evangelist Posts: 834   +368

    So this is the new DX10, the bribe to get you to jump ship to the post-term abortion, Vista.
    So this is the new DX11.1, the bribe to get you to jump ship to the post-term abortion, Windows 8.

    When will Microsoft learn. If you're going to take hostages, make sure somebody cares about the hostages.
    trgz likes this.
  5. treetops

    treetops TS Evangelist Posts: 2,261   +361

    You can use directx 11 on 7, must be the .1 your craving.

    My current card only goes to dx 10. So I'll likely grab another card when dx 12 comes out and finally upgrade my windows\gpu. I really wish I could keep windows 7, I don't like the xbox one looking interface of 8 and 10.
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  6. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 10,797   +4,605

    Not knowing what the XBox One looks like, I'm tempted to agree. I can only assume that is what I don't like about the newest Windows releases.

    I bricked my first install of Windows 10(TP) trying to install a Windows Aero substitute. I'm currently in the process of repairing the damage. It's my own fault though for trying a version designed for Win8.1. I thought I would try it though. Sad story is I wouldn't have a need in trying, if MS had kept a feature I (and so many others) want so badly. If you and I are on the same page, this would camouflage the XBox One look a bit.
  7. ddg4005

    ddg4005 TS Guru Posts: 388   +55

    I'm glad to hear this. I'll hold off replacing my cards until next year and then upgrade to DirectX 12-enabled units.
  8. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    Obviously, since there is a whole raft of a single 11.1 title, and zero 11.2 games out at the present time.
    DirectX 11.3 will be a "lite" version of DirectX 12, and there is a possibility that Win7 could support it in addition to Win8/8.1.
  9. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TS Evangelist Posts: 727   +267

    I think you called it right. My question is how many years can DirectX continue to improve to where it matters enough to make people want to upgade? People keep throwing out terms that I don't really understand. It's been said that Windows 8 is rock-solid stable, no more BSOD. Well, how many were you getting on Windows 7? What did it improve from 2 BSODs a year on Windows 7 to 1 a year on Windows 8? Wow, 50% improvement. Must upgrade now.

    Same thing with the upgrade from DirectX 11 to Direct 12. What's it got that makes it that much more compelling when your playing a game at 60fps?

    Improvements are improvements no matter how small and I will take them. But Microsoft has crossed a line with Windows 8 where it makes me seriously think 2x...3x...and more about upgrading because the environment has become so repulsive.

    I downloaded and installed the Windows 10 Technical Preview to see if the return of the Start Menu was enough to compel me to make it my main OS. It wasn't. I am trying to be more open minded about Windows 10 than I was Windows 8 since Microsoft appears to be listening. But I don't think it's worth it still.

    Edit: Side note. Has anybody noticed the name Windows 10 is not present anywhere in the preview build? "Windows Technical Preview". Windows 10 may still be just a code name since the release is at least 6 months out.
    trgz likes this.
  10. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 10,797   +4,605

    Same here. I botched my first install trying an Aero install for Win8.1. That would have helped, but all hell broke loose when I installed. I couldn't do anything from the DWM error I was getting afterward. Forced to make a fresh install over my attempt to make Win10 look better was quite hilarious.
  11. robb213

    robb213 TS Maniac Posts: 339   +105

    I honestly don't mind since I'll probably Dual boot 7 and 10.
    The only thing I can't stand with 10 is the retarded minimalistic style. We're in an age with advanced hardware--use it. Minimalistic can look good, but they're doing it wrong imo.

    + I assume I'll be getting it for free since I'm a member of DreamSpark for my courses too; won't bite a gift horse in the mouth.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  12. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    If you think that D3D stops at rasterization, then you aren't the intended audience.
    Probably the most accurate assessment I've ever seen from you.;)
    I wasn't aware that Win7 users were the primary target for Win8 sales. I was under the impression that new systems and people moving from XP and maybe Vista would be the main revenue streams.
    1. Lower CPU overhead and more effective use of system memory allocation to ensure a smoother gameplay experience, especially as screen resolution, texture sizes, and AI routines become more expansive. We are a long way from 60 fps at 4K or multi-screen and that's without taking into account post-(graphics pipeline) process compute functionality (ambient occlusion, depth of field, motion blur etc.) or downsampling/full screen AA for lower resolutions.
    2. Image enhancements. A move towards voxel based global illumination has already been highlighted with the GM 204 launch. It is a near certainty that DirectX will move from pure rasterization to path and ray tracing as the hardware evolves to handle the workload - which is where the present optimizations are headed ( reduced overhead, colour compression, bindless textures etc.)

    If this means nothing to you then you aren't the target audience and you need not concern yourself with DirectX 12 (or 11.3 for that matter), or any future iteration of D3D.
    ...about harping on incessantly about the OS? Judging by your posting, banging on about Microsoft seems to be your mission in life. Doing God's works or doing your bit to further the "I H8 W8" meme?*

    * Rhetorical. Don't. Care.
  13. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TS Evangelist Posts: 727   +267

    I have no need for you to reference what I said. I know what I said and everybody who reads this website regularly knows I hate Windows 8. It's not my mission in my life to bang on Windows 8 no more than it is yours to defend Windows 8 I imagine. What do you recommend consumers do when they are not happy with any product in life(not just Windows 8)? Say a prayer quietly in their room at night and hope the next version is what they want?

    There is both good and bad in Windows 10. So I have to decide whether the good outweighs the bad. Right now, for me personally, I just don't care. I am not a hardcore gamer like I used to be. So DX12 probably won't entice me to upgrade to Windows whatever they call it. Bragging that I have DX12 installed on my computer does nothing for me. A developer producing an extraordinary game with DX12 features that I crave...might.

    Whatever the case, I see it's in a distant future and not the present moment.
    And for that very reason Windows 10 has failed again in my eyes. Because it's not a must have now...it's still a wait and see.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  14. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    Don't. Buy. It.
    You think the Edsel Citation and Pacer lasted only a single model year because car buyers turned into consumerist versions of proselytizing televangelists? No. Motoring magazines weren't overly harsh on the cars, but the styling wasn't to peoples tastes, the cost was high in relation to other Ford lines, and the workmanship was slipshod because the assembly line was used to putting together Ford Custom's and Fairlane's. Contrary to popular opinion, consumers have been making value judgements and weighing relative worth long before people took to the internet with a mission to warn the population at every opportunity.
    By all means, voice displeasure. We live in an age where whining over largely inconsequential cr@p has turned into less a hobby than an obsession. It's that after a few hundred posts the message becomes less critique than self parody.
    It's actually a case of economically viable hardware not being able to be developed under the constraints of current process nodes (transistor density, power budget) and game developers being an inherently lazy bunch. Voxel based G.I. got 86'ed from UE 4 some time ago because the other components required to make it viable weren't in place. Microsoft shoulders some of the blame, but the DirectX spec is written in conjunction with the graphics IHV's - Nvidia, AMD, and Intel - for both hardware level and feature set level.
  15. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TS Evangelist Posts: 727   +267

    "Don't Buy it". Good advice. I still think your getting a little too bent out of my shape over people expressing their opinions.

    "By all means, voice displeasure. We live in an age where whining over largely inconsequential cr@p has turned into less a hobby than an obsession. It's that after a few hundred posts the message becomes less critique than self parody."
    This is maybe 5th or 6th comment of a critique of Windows 10. It was just released so I feel like I have a right to express my opinions, good or bad, of the product. It's not the x hundreth post about Windows 10.

    Your last paragraph makes my point even more valid. The fact is DX12 will probably come onto the scene way before anybody really cares about it. So, no hurry to upgrade to Windows 10. So, like I did the past 2 years for Windows 8, I will sit out on Windows 10 until I feel compelled to make it my operating system 24/7. Until then, it's just a ***** I play with when I am in the mood.
  16. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    Not really. I would have thought my sig would have provided a clue. Do I really need to litter my posts with emoticons to get the point across?
    Well, I didn't mention that the hundreds of posts were concerning Windows 10 now did I ? although I suspect that between Windows 8, 8.1, 9, and 10 thread posts as well as your attempts to troll other non-Windows threads, you'll comfortably hit that number. We could start a list if you'd like .
    If "anybody" means you then yes, but there are more than a few gamers eager for the advantages DX12 will likely bring. DX12/11.3 won't hit primetime for a year, but the fact that AMD's Mantle which in all probability influenced DX12 is in full development- and currently in use, as are OpenGL's extensions (that DX12/11.3 mirror and ratified over a year ago) by both Nvidia and AMD it would seem that it can't come soon enough. Game devs might drag their feet, but Nvidia and AMD's gaming programs will accelerate the tech into the market if it benefits sales.
    AMD's Mantle is effectively a large part of what DX12 brings to the table, and is being used as the default API by gamers in a number of game titles by supported AMD graphics. What makes you think that DX12 won't enjoy the same uptake when it encompasses not just AMD hardware, but that of the discrete graphics market share leader (Nvidia) and the overall graphics market share leader (Intel) ?

    If you are extrapolating DX12 uptake from previous DX10 and DX11 examples then the comparison is flawed. With consoles now using x86 hardware and already using close-to-metal API's analogous to DX12's low CPU overhead attributes, there exists more commonality between console and PC gaming than ever. There is absolutely no reason for game developers not to code for DX12.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  17. TheBigFatClown

    TheBigFatClown TS Evangelist Posts: 727   +267

    Wow, I wish was doing everything you was accusing me of. I would be smarter than I really am. I haven't given a thought to what version of DX I am running for awhile now. The only reason this whole conversation got started is because you were upset that I have posted negative comments about Windows 8+ on more than 1 occasion. That's just something you have to deal with in life. Not buying a product you don't like is good advice but the power of the internet is just too powerful to ignore. Hell, even Microsoft provides a way to leave feedback in the technical preview. I will admit I could be a little more civil in some of my posts regarding Windows 8. Maybe then you wouldn't be bothered so much by my complaints?
  18. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    No, I think you'll find that you asked questions regarding DirectX 12 in post #9, which I attempted to answer - which for the most part I did. When someone says "What's it got that makes it that much more compelling when your playing a game at 60fps?", that is generally accepted as asking a question. You then got overly defensive because of what I view as your impression of a broken record.....and here I was under the impression that clowns cry on the inside.

    You seem much less interested in facts (I.e. DX12 being a superset of DX11.3 which will in all likelihood be backported to Win7, and what features are actually added to the API) than putting forward your own viewpoint and ascribing motivations to others that aren't borne out by what they have actually written
    Not bothered at all - think of it like an e-sport for someone with a few minutes to kill during a break - it certainly costs less, and is much more amusing that buying cigarettes. :):D;)
  19. Nero7

    Nero7 TS Evangelist Posts: 353   +138

    The sad thing is that DX12 looks like the only major feature that I'd be willing to give Win7 up for. Everything else looks like something that could of have been easily modded into Win7. Like that new start menu... really? Or that apps can run in windowed mode now... srsly? Multiple desktops are kinda cool... but is it such a big effort to implement to charge me for?

    I dunno.
  20. TechGamer

    TechGamer TS Evangelist Posts: 419   +60

    Hmm im abit on lack of information on dx12 can anyone confirm if my current gfx card supports dx12? gtx 660 heard rumors it should but as previous generations didn't id like some clarification
  21. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,840   +1,267

    Nvidia announced a while back that Fermi (400/500 series) and Kepler will support some features of DX12 functionality - but not all. The ability to control what order objects are rasterized to the screen space might be a Maxwell only feature, but the low CPU overhead features will almost certainly be supported by Fermi and Kepler.
    The problem with saying whether an architecture will support a DirectX version comes from the fact that support is broken down to hardware level support and feature level support, so partial support is possible if only one of the two is fully supported, or if both are only partially supported.
    The VXGI (also an inclusion for DX 12) presentation video I posted earlier, although highlighted for Maxwell, supposedly will also be compatible with Kepler cards (and most likely AMD's GCN architecture)

    Nvidia architecture compatibility with VXGI is mentioned around the 50 minute mark in conjunction with the Unreal Engine 4 talk.
    TechGamer likes this.

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