El Salvador becomes the first country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender alongside the US...

captaincranky

Posts: 16,693   +5,458
Probably not, because rational economic activity isn't a mental illness, compared to the colossal entitlement and Dunning-Kreuger delusions of the average gamer.
One "rational economic activity", is using a person's physical holdings to calculate their net worth.

The entire scope of "mining", bears no tangible physicality.

To compare it to "actual mining",, it's like digging in a dead hole. Once the "fantasy", (delusion), wears off, it's possible to be left without gas money".

But hey, if you can screw people into trading it for physical holdings, more power to you, I suppose,.

But I will concede that hard core continual video gaming carries with it the risk of developing, "paranoid delusions of grandeur".
 
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kiwigraeme

Posts: 315   +254
Hola! pollo con papas fritas por favor . Cuantos? , no problema, mi espera mi dinero - a few hours later - muy delicioso

Yeah 3 transactions per second worldwide - as stated there is other crypto better suited - I mean they already use El dinero de la munda - US$

makes as much sense as my bad spanish
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,693   +5,458
Hola! pollo con papas fritas por favor . Cuantos? , no problema, mi espera mi dinero - a few hours later - muy delicioso
Hello, >"quisiera" chicken and french fries, ?Por quanto los venden? Mis bitcoin hace volar por fuera. Por favor esperase, se lo regresara' quizas pronto.o quizas no, no se.

Boy, that was a red underlined mouthful. Sorry, I meant boca llena.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 315   +254
Hello, >"quisiera" chicken and french fries, ?Por quanto los venden? Mis bitcoin hace volar por fuera. Por favor esperase, se lo regresara' quizas pronto.o quizas no, no se.

Boy, that was a red underlined mouthful. Sorry, I meant boca llena.


Fancy spanish like - I would like "quisiera"- and how much you would sell it for Por quanto los venden? -- You would stand out like a new tourist with language book - muy barato- as you pay double - having travelled a lot - brevity makes locals think are you an ex-pat - Then you had the strange situation in places like in Egypt where sometimes I got a better price with brutal english -Bread . HOW MUCH - than ( mis-spelling coming ) As-Salaam Alaikim hobbis bikam ?

A few hours later - is an english reference aka spongebob

so a tip - just say Hola - point at something Cuantos? with causal conviction - chances they will say a good price you will not understand - hand over only smaller notes - but enough to cover the price or ticket - is funny watching people ask for change in english on buses - somehow ticket collector speaks no english
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,693   +5,458
You would stand out like a new tourist with language book -
I had a survey course in Spanish in college, and I'm not entitled to a passport. Thus, your point is moot.

That being said, you were "congratulating yourself", on your "incoherent Spanish", which it was not. (Just a little rough).

I have to wonder if my variant would play better in a high end restaurant.

Besides, I've never claimed anything beyond "Spanglish", of my linguistic skills.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 193   +172
I can imagine a nation allowing cryptocurrencies as their national currency, my opinion is that they are up to no good (since the obvious advantage is that the crypto are hard to trace). The reason is shady and don't make sense to the government. The volatility of crypto is the main reason why companies and nations have not been widely adopted. Imagine in a month, an owner of crypto loses half their value and you get chaos in the society. And how does that sound when taxpayers pay in cryptocurrency to the government only to have the coffers 50% poorer in 2 weeks? If volatility of their currency is a problem such that they accept a more stable currency like USD as payment in the country, accepting cryptocurrency just don't make sense to me.
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
I originally thought Bitcoin etc was just used by drug traffickers to move money without being traced. Now stand up countries like El Salvador have adopted it, I don't feel my position has changed much.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 609   +747
I originally thought Bitcoin etc was just used by drug traffickers to move money without being traced. Now stand up countries like El Salvador have adopted it, I don't feel my position has changed much.
Bitcoin is not untraceable. The ledger is public.

Oil came right back though, as soon as people tried to start their cars. You're really reaching beyond absurdity when you start comparing commodities to vapor trails on someone's computer.
You can say that, but, despite all its corrections and crashes, Bitcoin never went negative, unlike oil.
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
Bitcoin is not untraceable. The ledger is public.
It's traceable to a random account number (or wallet) but there's nothing linking that to a person or an organisation. A new wallet can be set up without any proof of identity or checks. Effectively it's untraceable but thank you for the correction.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 609   +747
It's traceable to a random account number (or wallet) but there's nothing linking that to a person or an organisation. A new wallet can be set up without any proof of identity or checks. Effectively it's untraceable but thank you for the correction.
That's how it used to be... But now, many places you can buy Bitcoin require KYC. So ultimately, even though no one can directly be identified through the ledger itself, a large part of the transactions can be traced to specific individuals. Criminals won't be using Bitcoin if they're smart, because all that is required is linking one address to one person, and the whole transaction tree of everyone in their organization can be traced. They have developed the tech to do this, as seen in this article;

 

silversea

Posts: 35   +51
So here's my take on all that is happening in El Salvador first, they invite all these miners to build their companies around volcanoes, everyone is fat, dumb, and happy-making all that money then the inevitable happens Mount St Helens all over again wiping out every single miner in the area NO MORE MINERS! sounds horrible but, guess what the price of cryptocurrencies will tumble to record lows, and hopefully never recover and everyone will live happily ever after.
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
That's how it used to be... But now, many places you can buy Bitcoin require KYC.
We could go back and forth discussing this but I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you're a reputable dealer then you'd go through KYC procedures. If you're not so reputable then you'd avoid it. I have no idea where those in El Salvador stand in that spectrum but I have my suspicions.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 609   +747
We could go back and forth discussing this but I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you're a reputable dealer then you'd go through KYC procedures. If you're not so reputable then you'd avoid it. I have no idea where those in El Salvador stand in that spectrum but I have my suspicions.
They wouldn't risk using Bitcoin as their main currency in the first place, simply because it's too risky. There's a reason criminals use primarily cash and not bank accounts. Even if there is someone that says something, unless you have the cash as evidence, or some other sort of evidence, you can't be prosecuted. Bitcoin leaves all the evidence there. You need one fool that couldn't keep himself private and your whole organization is exposed.

There are way better, cheaper, safer and quicker options for criminals than Bitcoin. And the general sentiment in this thread is as if the people of El Salvador are mostly criminals, and that to me is quite disgusting.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,693   +5,458
There are way better, cheaper, safer and quicker options for criminals than Bitcoin. And the general sentiment in this thread is as if the people of El Salvador are mostly criminals, and that to me is quite disgusting.
"Stop and frisk", is a policy that can adversely affect a law abiding person. For example, a black police officer is pulled over in another jurisdiction for, "driving while black". He is justifiably annoyed by this.

"So, "stop and frisk" is abolished. This does indeed benefit law abiding citizens since now they can travel without interference.

However, now the police can't "stop and frisk" those who might be carrying weapons or drugs.

This is a wholly negative side of the the policy, and IMO, criminals are quick to take advantage of it.

The same, I suspect, is true of the adoption of Bitcoin as an official currency.

Spare us the broad generalizations, sil vous plait.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 609   +747
"Stop and frisk", is a policy that can adversely affect a law abiding person. For example, a black police officer is pulled over in another jurisdiction for, "driving while black". He is justifiably annoyed by this.

"So, "stop and frisk" is abolished. This does indeed benefit law abiding citizens since now they can travel without interference.

However, now the police can't "stop and frisk" those who might be carrying weapons or drugs.

This is a wholly negative side of the the policy, and IMO, criminals are quick to take advantage of it.

The same, I suspect, is true of the adoption of Bitcoin as an official currency.

Spare us the broad generalizations, sil vous plait.
All this boils down to this simple question...;
How much freedom should we sacrifice for how much security?

That simple question has no simple answer. Take all the measures taken for flying for example... How many terrorists have actually been caught with those security procedures in place? Treating the whole population as criminals to try and get a few, in my view, is wrong because it simply doesn't work.

It becomes even funnier when major criminal activities are legalized through politics and governments at the cost of the people... But most people don't realize that is happening, or deny that it happens.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,693   +5,458
That simple question has no simple answer. Take all the measures taken for flying for example... How many terrorists have actually been caught with those security procedures in place? Treating the whole population as criminals to try and get a few, in my view, is wrong because it simply doesn't work.
I don't fly, so their rigorous screening is moot to me.
If you do, I suggest you write your congressmen and tell them it's "bullsh!t", and lobby for them to do away with it.

As with an amusement park roller coaster,(the way you tell it), the airlines should just put up a sign, "ride at your own risk", and be done with it.

Also keep in mind, "any landing you can walk away from is a good one".
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
And the general sentiment in this thread is as if the people of El Salvador are mostly criminals, and that to me is quite disgusting.
I don't think anyone is saying that, though their president did once call it the murder capitol of the world. He's done well though and halved the murder rate to just one in 2000 (per year) and only 14% of GDP is now drug related (UN figures). Unfortunately the two street gangs MS-13 and 18th Street are still, between them, the highest employer in the country with 60,000 "employees". If the president is trying to restore stability then I'm not sure Bitcoin is the right tool for that.
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
They wouldn't risk using Bitcoin as their main currency in the first place, simply because it's too risky. There's a reason criminals use primarily cash and not bank accounts. Even if there is someone that says something, unless you have the cash as evidence, or some other sort of evidence, you can't be prosecuted. Bitcoin leaves all the evidence there. You need one fool that couldn't keep himself private and your whole organization is exposed.
I'm sure small criminals might prefer cash but if you're dealing in large amounts then it's far easier just setting up a Bitcoin account (without KYC), using it to buy high value commodities you can then resell, before finally closing the account. You can also move that money anywhere around the world without having to worry about transporting big suitcases full of money.
 

mbk34

Posts: 175   +118
Case and point:
Just to save anybody from having to watch 10 mins of video: There were 2 parties involved in a software attack on an oil pipeline company. A group called Darkside and a group that paid for Darkside to attack the pipeline company. They were paid a $4m ransom through Bitcoin. The affiliate made an "amateur mistake" and got caught while Darkside group were not caught.

I think it's safe to assume that drug cartels wouldn't make "amateur mistakes" and therefore wouldn't get caught when trading Bitcoin.