European Commission finds Apple violated the DMA, threatens huge $38 billion fine

[Northy]

If huge fines are the only thing that will deter immoral corporate behaviour let's bring those fines. Let's smother this punishment on thick and liberally until their compass falls in place.

Kudos to the EU for not being so spineless and corrupt not to act.

 

[GoldenGoat]

Obey the law or don't do business there. It's pretty simple. Apple hasn't figured out yet that they aren't in charge in Europe just because they can do whatever they want in America.

 

[scavengerspc]

Obey the law or don't do business there. It's pretty simple. Apple hasn't figured out yet that they aren't in charge in Europe just because they can do whatever they want in America.

And you have no opinion on obviously targeted laws?
This law was written specifically to cash in later.

It's like I passed a law that said there would be a fine if local stop signs weren't exactly
7 feet tall (2.13 m), already knowing exactly which one was only 6'11".

 

[Northy]

And you have no opinion on obviously targeted laws?
This law was written specifically to cash in later.

It's like I passed a law that said there would be a fine if local stop signs weren't exactly
7 feet tall (2.13 m), already knowing exactly which one was only 6"11'.

The law targets all major internet and media companies and is designed to prevent monopolization by immoral business practises. It isn't just a special law for Apple.

Free trade laws might be the wild west in America where the largest can bully and manipulate the smallest because that's freedom, but in Europe the laws mean the smallest can trade freely as well. When companies try and take those freedoms away the government steps in.

Let's put this in a different way... You make furniture and there's only one place people can find your furniture if not by accident. So you list in that one place despite them taking an abusive 30% commision for doing little. Do you think it's right that you can't mention it's cheaper to buy the furniture straight from you? Do you think it's right that if someone who bought a couch from you from this 30% commission marketplace, a month later they buy a coffee table directly from you and you still have to pay 30% to that marketplace for doing absolutely nothing?

This is exactly the anticompetitive and predatory behaviour Apple is being taken to task for. All I've done is change the thing being sold. EU government has fined many companies for similar immoral behaviour because they aren't insane sellouts to corporations. If companies think up new ways to fk people they create new laws to stop them getting fkd. They don't just go "oh well, it's legal so there's nothing we can do".

 

[Endymio]

And you have no opinion on obviously targeted laws?
This law was written specifically to cash in later.

It's like I passed a law that said there would be a fine if local stop signs weren't exactly
7 feet tall (2.13 m), already knowing exactly which one was only 6"11'.

It's even worse than that. It's like passing a law that states local signs must be "a height that is sufficient and not excessive" without defining precisely what those terms mean.

You make furniture and there's only one place people can find your furniture if not by accident. So you list in that one place despite them taking an abusive 30% commision for doing little.

Oops! There are tens of thousands of places people can buy furniture -- or smartphone apps. But if you wish to buy, say, Joe's Dutch Amish furniture or Apple apps -- you go to their particular store.

 

[Burty117]

Oops! There are tens of thousands of places people can buy furniture -- or smartphone apps. But if you wish to buy, say, Joe's Dutch Amish furniture or Apple apps -- you go to their particular store.

Ah, so you're starting to understand the crux of the issue, on my iPhone, I cannot go to another store, I'm forcibly stuck going to only Apples store.

You see the problem at least, even if you don't understand why it's an issue.

 

[Endymio]

Ah, so you're starting to understand the crux of the issue, on my iPhone, I cannot go to another store

Goodyear is the only source for Goodyear tires. Armani is the only source for Armani fragrances. Apple is the only source for Apple apps. See how it works?

Furthermore, you're misinformed on what this EU action is even about. The EU isn't extorting $40B from Apple because Apple limits its apps to the Apple store. It's suing because it considers Apple's 30% fee "excessive" .... without first writing a law to define what precisely is meant by the term excessive. Had the EU passed legislating stating that no app supplier can charge more than a 10% commission, then there'd be little to argue about, other than the advisability of the law itself. But the EU skipped that step, in order to steal a huge sum from a US firm.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Northy]

What is with the comment section here. EU fine Microsoft for forcing IE on everyone, no complaints other than "why don't they do this to Apple"...

Apple gets bigger and bigger, to the point it's time to start fining them, but for some reason, everyone is defending them?!

Has nobody here asked the question "why aren't the other gatekeepers getting fined as well"...

Microsoft is also facing a 10% revenue fine for breaking EU laws right now

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/25/tech/microsoft-teams-eu-antitrust/index.html

 

[Northy]

Goodyear is the only source for Goodyear tires. Armani is the only source for Armani fragrances. Apple is the only source for Apple apps. See how it works?

Furthermore, you're misinformed on what this EU action is even about. The EU isn't extorting $40B from Apple because Apple limits its apps to the Apple store. It's suing because it considers Apple's 30% fee "excessive" .... without first writing a law to define what precisely is meant by the term excessive. Had the EU passed legislating stating that no app supplier can charge more than a 10% commission, then there'd be little to argue about, other than the advisability of the law itself. But the EU skipped that step, in order to steal a huge sum from a US firm.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

Apple isn't selling Apple apps though, they are selling everyone's apps in a market they control, charging extortionate fees and not allowing any other markets.

It's not such a prevalent issue in Europe for everything to need to be written in black and white to know if things are morally acceptable of not. The list of ways to be immoral is endless, and anyone thinking there's a legal way to fk everyone over soon learn the hard way with authorities there. "The laws are vague"... but the charges aren't, they are very specific charges against bad behaviour that was done deliberately to exploit others.

I'm shocked that people think gatekeeper corporations have no social contract and the same rights as people. That it's absolutely right they should exploit everyone in every possible way they can conceive with no repercussions that will cause them to stop.

 

[Endymio]

Microsoft is also facing a 10% revenue fine for breaking EU laws right now

Got to hand it to the EU. They've learned that stealing from foreign firms is more politically popular than taxing their own citizens ... especially when much of their constituency is the ill-educated believers in the "have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too" school of economics.

Apple isn't selling Apple apps though, they are selling everyone's apps in a market they control

Apple "controls" their market much less than most others. My Mercedes sedan, my LG smart TV, and even my Samsung refrigerator all run various apps. Yet I'm not allowed to randomly choose which apps I can or cannot install on them.

Furthermore, to correct another error of yours. Apple doesn't legally prevent you from installing whatever you wish on your phone. They merely aren't writing an OS to make that easier for you. If you don't like how their products are designed -- buy a smartphone from someone else. There's plenty of options.

 

[Northy]

Got to hand it to the EU. They've learned that stealing from foreign firms is more politically popular than taxing their own citizens ... especially when much of their constituency is the ill-educated believers in the "have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too" school of economics.


Apple "controls" their market much less than most others. My Mercedes sedan, my LG smart TV, and even my Samsung refrigerator all run various apps. Yet I'm not allowed to randomly choose which apps I can or cannot install on them.

Furthermore, to correct another error of yours. Apple doesn't legally prevent you from installing whatever you wish on your phone. They merely aren't writing an OS to make that easier for you. If you don't like how their products are designed -- buy a smartphone from someone else. There's plenty of options.

You're confusing my choice with corporate responsibilities and diminishing these corporations behavior by comparing them to fridges and in car entertainment systems which is simply ridiculous.

I didn't claim Apple stops people installing apps, you made that up.

If gatekeeper corporations don't like following competition, antitrust and privacy laws in Europe they can go to another continent. There's plenty of options. That is the harsh reality, and no amount of words on the internet will change that.

 

[scavengerspc]

It's even worse than that. It's like passing a law that states local signs must be "a height that is sufficient and not excessive" without defining precisely what those terms mean.

Really? I knew it was open-ended to their advantage, but I didn't know how much.

 

[Endymio]

You're confusing my choice with corporate responsibilities and diminishing these corporations behavior by comparing them to fridges and in car entertainment systems which is simply ridiculous.

Err, no, this is the entire heart of the issue. Before Apple came along, phones were no different than fridges and car entertainment systems -- you ran the software the maker allowed, and nothing else. Apple changed that paradigm ... and you're trying to punish them for it. They have every right in the world to control exactly what software runs on their phones. You don't like it? Don't buy the phone.

And you're -still- ignoring the heart of the issue. The EU is taking $40B from Apple for violating a nonexistent law.

I didn't claim Apple stops people installing apps, you made that up.

Oops! You claimed they're "not allowing other markets". This is false. Anyone is free to setup their own store, selling apps for iPhones. The fact that Apple's OS makes it very difficult to install these apps is why these secondary markets don't exist.

 

[Northy]

Non existent law? That's two posts in a row now you have straight up lied to make a point that doesn't exist.

It doesn't matter if they invented the internet, they still can't use anticompetitive and exploitative practices in Europe. Do you think that it would be fair that if now the CSIRO started charging everyone across the world $10 a month to use wifi on every device? They invented it so why not? Would it then be theft if Europe fined them 10% of the billions they made being immoral?

Apple making 3rd party markets impossible to use is anti competitive behaviour. This is exactly the sort of issues that are being highlighted. Oh you can have cars, but you can't drive them... is akin to... Oh you can have an app store, but it doesn't work. Same difference. I doubt very much if it was your freedoms being impacted whether you'd so "oh but it's totally legal for them to shaft me, so I fully support it".

No loss to me man. If you like having a government who lets companies split hairs when using deceit and then profit from your loss, it's all yours. Make your bed, sleep in it.

 

[Endymio]

Non existent law? That's two posts in a row now you have straight up lied

You've been reported for disinformation. The EU's DMA is a matter of public record. Nowhere does it state that a 30% commission is illegal. And Apple specifically created a new API in response to the EU's DMA legislation, in order to allow app developers to offer alternative browsers and marketplaces for their apps.

The EU admits all this, but calls the fees "excessive" -- without ever defining a legal limit -- and calls Apple's alternative process "too onerous" -- without ever specifying what critieria that process should meet.

My statement was correct. Apple is being persecuted not for "breaking a law", but because their deep pockets attracted the greed of EU regulators. The consumers, however will suffer in response. From the NYT:

"...The E.U. rules threaten to fragment the global tech market as companies delay the releases of certain products and services because of regulatory concerns. Last week, Apple said it would not release a software update for iPhone users in the EU [because] of “regulatory uncertainty.” Meta did not release Threads, its Twitter-like service, in the bloc until five months after it was available in the United States for similar reasons...."

 

[Northy]

Splitting hairs and misdirection to make lies seem true won't work for Apple in Euro courts either. It didn't work when they ate a $1.97 billion fine for antitrust just months ago and it won't work now.

Getting the latest feature update is irrelevant. Apple (and all big tech) are naive if they think they can blackmail Euros with their nonsense. They are beholden to the governments there, not the other way around.

 

[CallistIO]

About time, hitting these companies in the pocket is the only way they will learn.

Locking Apple users into 1 single marketplace has always been a horrifically distasteful practice and it has the knock on effect of being able to screw app developers too. If I buy a handset that handset should not be able to dictate to me how I use it.

If I want to use Apples marketplace that is fine, but if I want to use another more competitive marketplace that should also be fine, Apple should not be able to leverage it's position as the OS installed on my phone to take my ability to choose away.

Hopefully this will lead to more marketplaces springing up, and more marketplaces will increase competition and drive prices down all very good for the consumer.