EVGA will stop making Nvidia graphics cards, citing abusive relationship

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 3,530   +5,965
Sad to see them go, especially hearing they don't intend to jump over to AMD and/or Intel to continue producing GPUs. Have had nothing but great experience with their products, hopefully this doesn't cause them to fold.
Would it be a shame though? I mean, if they dont make GPUs anymore, they only real loss if they were to fold would be the loss of their PSUs. The issue is - there are multiple high end PSU OEMs, and EVGA PSUs are mostly Super Flower designs, offered by multiple manufacturers.

I guess their motherboards are good, but they are far too expensive and niche for most of us. And there is the sound card, which is genuinely good, but its just a PCIe version of a USB DAC.

If they are voluntarily dropping out of their main market them folding in a few years strikes me as a tree in the woods scenario.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 2,218   +2,757
TechSpot Elite
It's true we are all getting shafted in some way these days. I thought only the RX 6500 XT is the one that has terrible performance on PCI-E 3.0.

I watched a couple of videos of RX 6700 XT before buying one and the performance was largely the same on either PCI-E version.

Yes, the x4 6500 XT is the card most affected by PCIe 3.0. The 6700 XT is not as it's an x16 card. The x8 6600 XT is slightly affected by PCIe 3.0 to the tune of 1.5% lower fps. In other words, nothing noticeable and still way higher fps than it's competition.

There's no reason not to buy the 6600 or 6600XT for a PCIe 3.0 build.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 736   +560
It's true we are all getting shafted in some way these days. I thought only the RX 6500 XT is the one that has terrible performance on PCI-E 3.0.

I watched a couple of videos of RX 6700 XT before buying one and the performance was largely the same on either PCI-E version.
6700 is fine, it hasn't been cut down, but the price is very different

edit: yea, ~2% worse for 6600 models, I've made a mistake. I Must have been looking at something different. It doesn't matter now. Lew Zealand has it correct. 6400 and 6500 are the main offenders.
 
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CrisisDog

Posts: 265   +157
Looks like I picked the right time to "try out" a Sapphire Radeon card, having been on the Nvidia bandwagon for 10+ years now. I can only hope they pick up AMD or Intel as their next GPU of choice. Yeah, I know it says they are not "immediately" pursuing that option, but give it a year or two, and they probably will, if they manage to stay around.
 

Moochy

Posts: 23   +39
Quote: "GPU makers boosted supply in response to the crypto boom, but then the crash and the more recent Ethereum merge have left them struggling to get rid of unsold stock, while competing with the deluge of used cards as they prepare to launch a new generation. Board manufacturers like EVGA say they can't absorb these shocks the way Nvidia can, and EVGA says it is losing hundreds of dollars on every RTX 3080 or RTX 3090 sold."

Where is the "free market" here? Nvidia practices are certainly to blame, but then, it's not like all this huge backlash was was predictable *and* predicted a long time ago, as a logical follow up to this insane era of hugely inflated prices!
I'm sticking to my 3070 Ti for now, and will not jump the 40xx ship. I'll just wait for this to settle down and get a second hand GPU when the right time comes. Enough is enough!

Same here. EVGA 3071ti, AMD5600x, 3600ram. I see absolutely zero need for next gen components. The next gen GPU's, CPU's and ram is for people with very deep pockets...not for most people. With the economy turning down, manufacturers are going to be hurting.
 

azicat

Posts: 132   +150
At first glance it seems that Nvidia Bad!

But after hearing about this, listening to GN's video on the subject, and thinking about it overnight, it sound more and more that the C suite, and the CEO in particular, are suffering from "delusional small business" syndrome. I've seen it before, from both local companies and former employers, who get pissed at a partner and pull their relationship, often with disasterous consequences. [snip]
Indeed. This whole thing seems like a PR smokescreen that takes advantage of enthusiast 'sports team' brand mentality (thanks Gordon from PC World) to create a smokescreen for deeper systemic managerial issues. Cutting 80% revenue is like Stark Industries not making weapons anymore - but with no arc reactor killer app to replace the GPUs. EVGA played the crypto boom game just like other AIBs, so excuse my lack of sympathy when market conditions are no longer favourable for them.
 

Ojref

Posts: 37   +49
At first glance it seems that Nvidia Bad!

But after hearing about this, listening to GN's video on the subject, and thinking about it overnight, it sound more and more that the C suite, and the CEO in particular, are suffering from "delusional small business" syndrome. I've seen it before, from both local companies and former employers, who get pissed at a partner and pull their relationship, often with disasterous consequences.

EVGA has, for the last 3 generations, managed to overbuy GPUs at the tail end of a generation and wipe much of their profit. They did it with the 1000 series, the 2000 series, and now they have done so with the RTX 3000 series. The C-suite at EVGA got greedy, seeing GPU sales, and repeatedly shot themselves in the foot. They claim that nvidia's "abusive relationship" is why they are no longer making GPUs, yet they have no interest in making AMD GPUs. Or intel GPUs. And they stayed as nvidia's star partner for years, despite this behavior. They claim they are not going to lay people off, but they also have no plans to expand their company and just got rid of 80% of their revenue.

That doesn't sound like sane behavior to me. Given the CEO's statements about not wanting to sell the company to the "wrong investors" and wanting to spend more time with his family, yet not wanting to leave the CEO position, it sure sound to me like the CEO wants to retire, but is married to the baby that is his long running business. Rather then train others to lead, he insists on continuing as CEO, and his newest round of business decisions are costing EVGA money and stressing out management, stress they have attached to their supplier, blaming them for EVGA's problems because he doesnt want to admit that it may be time for him to step down and be an advisor.

So much sounds sus. Like, he claims the 3060 is profitable for EVGA, but he is losing "hundreds" on cards like the 3080. You're telling me that when EVGA was selling 3080s for $950 scalped, they were somehow still losing money? Same with cards like the $1200 3080ti, and the $2000 3090ti? And nvidia was limiting profit? After the last 2 years of insane scalping, who believes that? He also talks about how he refuses to compromise designs to save money, which clashes with nvidia's pricing, but EVGA was also the only GPU maker to make 3000 series that blew up when running new world, some due to poor soldering some due to low quality components. Odd that..... 🤔

Maybe the reason you are losing money on high end GPUs is you are overbuying at the wrong time in a generation trying to scalp the market, and it backfired on you. Again. Or maybe its procedure. If you need to limit costs on high end cards for profit reasons, well, do you need 5 different PCBs for what are pin compatible GPUs? Make just 1 PCB for the 3080, 3080ti, 3090, and 3090ti. Same with the cooler. Design it around the 3090, with headroom for a future Ti, then use the same cooler on lower end 3080s and 3080tis. And dont bother making money wasters like the k|ngp|n. Do you really need 4 different 3080 cooler and PCB designs? If you are loosing money, when Asus, MSI, and gigabyte are making money, maybe you are spending far too much on R+D for overlapping products. Similarly, why not just make the mid range and low end nvidia cards, and branch out to AMD options like the competition?

Top it off with EVGA having finished RTX 4000 designs, but now they wont make them, so all that cash is down the drain. The CEO talks repeatedly about how he didnt want to "betray" nvidia, but also talks about how nvidia "betrayed" him. Sounds to me the CEO may have gotten something of an ego, being one of the oldest and more prestigous brands of nvidia cards, and got upset that nvidia didnt treat him better then the other AIBs. Yes, nvidia are dicks. They are dicks because they own 80% of GPU sales. They make the lions share of profits, and have for decades. Doesnt mean its right, but you knew, and have known, how nvidia acts, yet never bothered to branch away from them and resisted embracing their competitor despite calls from the community for EVGA designs.

I've seen this same behavior, in the model railroad space, for years, and many a small model company has gone under from the owner being unwilling to treat the business as a business instead of a group of friends that all owe each other. The CEO's actions just dont make sense, they reek of an emotional decision, and if EVGA waits too long to lay off employees or extend their business they could very well fade into irrelevancy.
I agree with much of what you've said. This really feels like a Iron-Man 1 Tony Stark reaction to nVidia. Especially stating that EVGA is NOT planning on partnering with AMD to make video cards.

"What are we going to make, baby bottles?"

EVGA's PSU's are ok, but its a really crowded space, with the likes of Seasonic and Corsair to compete against. They've kicked out 80% of their revenue in one shot. I'd recommend that CEO get his self examined for any latent mental conditions like bipolar disorder. Seriously.
 

godrilla

Posts: 494   +248
Weird part is the EVGA website has nothing in stock for Ampere accept a handful of 3080s only 10 gig version, 3070s and 3070tis. Everything else is sold out. I have been following there website for past month and noticed a lot of there gpus were sold out while the market turned.
Update just checked local Microcenter also only has 10s of EVGA cards in stock. Seems inventory is definitely already numbered. As Well as Bestbuy. The only place that seems to have them in stock is Amazon at yesterday's prices*. Newegg is also the same either out of stock or yesterday's prices*.
* scalped!



FYI 🤔
 
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Rocky4040

Posts: 104   +136
Asus at least already knows and had to deal with NVIDIA abusive relationship. Remember Geforce Partener Affiliate program when Nvidia demanded and blackmailed ASUS to use ROG brand only for their Nvidia cards and not for AMD or anything else, like MB. Nvidia had to cancel the Geforce Partener Affiliate program only because of lawsuits which they could loose.
I can say that NVIDIA reputation is plummeting fast to where they really deserve despite of their PR twisting, bending reality and bribing or coercing reviewers to paint Nvidia in a fake but more favorable view.
It wasn't just ASUS they were hammering to only get the best branded names for themselves they were doing it to all of their partners. Asus & MSI were the first to cave though and started making up new names for AMD cards. I am not sure about Gigabyte though. All I know is weird names no one heard of started appearing on Aus and MSI cards for AMD branded cards.

Thank goodness the powers that be put a stop to it before any real damage was done or at least stopped before the existing damage done could be fixed.
 

Rocky4040

Posts: 104   +136
Weird part is the EVGA website has nothing in stock for Ampere accept a handful of 3080s only 10 gig version, 3070s and 3070tis. Everything else is sold out. I have been following there website for past month and noticed a lot of there gpus were sold out while the market turned.
Update just checked local Microcenter also only has 10s of EVGA cards in stock. Seems inventory is definitely already numbered. As Well as Bestbuy. The only place that seems to have them in stock is Amazon at yesterday's prices*. Newegg is also the same either out of stock or yesterday's prices*.
* scalped!



FYI 🤔
Probably a lot of these places are pulling all stock and will sit on the them for a short while and then release them to the world at much nigher prices because hey it will be your very last chance to get a real EVGA graphics card and of coarse because they no longer make cards they are worth their weight in gold well according to the retail sellers. They will try their very best to scalp the last of the cards at the highest prices they can because of well greed.
 

godrilla

Posts: 494   +248
Probably a lot of these places are pulling all stock and will sit on the them for a short while and then release them to the world at much nigher prices because hey it will be your very last chance to get a real EVGA graphics card and of coarse because they no longer make cards they are worth their weight in gold well according to the retail sellers. They will try their very best to scalp the last of the cards at the highest prices they can because of well greed.
The prices are definitely in a downward trajectory. The only people who will pay for yesterday'$ prices are I'll informed sadly. There is also a good chance the longer they hold on to those high end prices the more value the prices they will lose especially when the supply is outpacing the demand in reverse exponential manner. My prediction is that they made the decision in advance and only made the announcement after POS coincidentally. For me something just doesn't add up.
 

Sir Alex Ice

Posts: 78   +48
It's not about money but it started because eVGA is losing money with their custom cooled FTW series because of the nVidia Founder Editions. But it is not about money, no, no.
 

Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,307   +845
EVGA can get out of an abusive relationship yet Nvidia fans can't. Think about that :joy:
AMD hasn't got a polished product. Their drivers, features and perf still not up to NVIDIA so it is what it is. I know lots of people who jumped on AMD cards this generation and flogged them off to get NVIDIA shortly after. People are giving them a chance but they just aren't as good. I've owned several AMD GPUs over the years and it's just where it is atm.
 

Dsirius

Posts: 250   +464
The prices are definitely in a downward trajectory. The only people who will pay for yesterday'$ prices are I'll informed sadly. There is also a good chance the longer they hold on to those high end prices the more value the prices they will lose especially when the supply is outpacing the demand in reverse exponential manner. My prediction is that they made the decision in advance and only made the announcement after POS coincidentally. For me something just doesn't add up.
Yes EVGA made the decision in april 2022, Nvidia knew also.
 

Dsirius

Posts: 250   +464
AMD hasn't got a polished product. Their drivers, features and perf still not up to NVIDIA so it is what it is. I know lots of people who jumped on AMD cards this generation and flogged them off to get NVIDIA shortly after. People are giving them a chance but they just aren't as good. I've owned several AMD GPUs over the years and it's just where it is atm.
I also have and had many AMD and Nvidia video cards too and I can tell that the so called Nvidia better drivers or features is a lie and a myth. I had GTX 1660ti, 2060, 2080 Super, 3080ti, Vega 64, RadeonVII, 5700XT, 6800XT, 6900XT.
Possibly in the past, a long, long time ago like in Star Wars, AMD drivers were worse than Nvidia ones. Nowadays both Nvidia and AMD have their share of driver issues. AMD drivers issues were slightly more often than Nvidia but Nvidia ones were the worst.
In dual monitor configuration Nvidia GPU's 2xxx and 3xxx are a nightmare to use. Try to switch between monitors or switch a window from one monitor to the other and do the same on an AMD video card and you will see the big issues of Nvidia videocards.
Also Nvidia had the most atrocious DisplayPort driver problem, many premium GSync monitors were not even recognized by NVIDIA videocards. Nvidia knew about it, kept it hidden, and after aprox 1 year they finally resolved it by a firmware update of their videocards.
Nowadays AMD Adrenalin software is miles away ahead of NVIDIA's counterpart.
At any similar price AMD videocards performance is better than Nvidia counterparts except Ray Tracing.
What Nvidia has better than AMD is PR and PR budget, but even this will not be enough anymore to manipulate customers with legends and myths which do not stand to a proper check-out at least in the present.
 
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Darth Shiv

Posts: 2,307   +845
I also have and had many AMD and Nvidia video cards too and I can tell that the so called Nvidia better drivers or features is a lie and a myth. I had GTX 1660ti, 2060, 2080 Super, 3080ti, Vega 64, RadeonVII, 5700XT, 6800XT, 6900XT.
Possibly in the past, a long, long time ago like in Star Wars, AMD drivers were worse than Nvidia ones. Nowadays both Nvidia and AMD have their share of driver issues. AMD drivers issues were slightly more often than Nvidia but Nvidia ones were the worst.
In dual monitor configuration Nvidia GPU's 2xxx and 3xxx are a nightmare to use. Try to switch between monitors or switch a window from one monitor to the other and do the same on an AMD video card and you will see the big issues of Nvidia videocards.
Also Nvidia had the most atrocious DisplayPort driver problem, many premium GSync monitors were not even recognized by NVIDIA videocards. Nvidia knew about it, kept it hidden, and after aprox 1 year they finally resolved it by a firmware update of their videocards.
Nowadays AMD Adrenalin software is miles away ahead of NVIDIA's counterpart.
At any similar price AMD videocards performance is better than Nvidia counterparts except Ray Tracing.
What Nvidia has better than AMD is PR and PR budget, but even this will not be enough anymore to manipulate customers with legends and myths which do not stand to a proper check-out at least in the present.
First of all the drivers and optimisations are found to be true countless times.

Secondly you literally link the DP bios fix supplied for NV that works on all cards so you aren't stuck with the AIBs fixing the problem so they FIXED THE PROBLEM.

If AMD was so far ahead of NVIDIA, why did people dump them when 3000 series stock became more available? It's because they had enough of stuffing around with AMD driver issues.

Yes it's probably because NVIDIA pays games companies for dedicated driver optimisation. And yes they did many shady anti-competitive things in this regard in the past. But they have spent the coin and they get the better experience. AMD is just a long way behind still. If AMD doesn't have the stability, people just don't want to stuff around with it. They just want to kick their feet up after a day's work or whatever and play.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,717   +1,377
First of all the drivers and optimisations are found to be true countless times.
Like where? Give sources. So far Techspot hasn't been able to confirm "supposed to be 100% sure" 5000-series driver issues...
If AMD was so far ahead of NVIDIA, why did people dump them when 3000 series stock became more available? It's because they had enough of stuffing around with AMD driver issues.

Yes it's probably because NVIDIA pays games companies for dedicated driver optimisation. And yes they did many shady anti-competitive things in this regard in the past. But they have spent the coin and they get the better experience. AMD is just a long way behind still. If AMD doesn't have the stability, people just don't want to stuff around with it. They just want to kick their feet up after a day's work or whatever and play.
Why RTX 3050 sells more than 6600? Techspot says that's easy win for RX 6600.

There's only one explanation: People are stupid.

And before you even begin with those driver myths, Intel Arc-series drivers have been proven to be horrible. Believe me, they will sell quite well despite that...
 

loki1944

Posts: 601   +441
Like where? Give sources. So far Techspot hasn't been able to confirm "supposed to be 100% sure" 5000-series driver issues...

Why RTX 3050 sells more than 6600? Techspot says that's easy win for RX 6600.

There's only one explanation: People are stupid.

And before you even begin with those driver myths, Intel Arc-series drivers have been proven to be horrible. Believe me, they will sell quite well despite that...

Other explanation is Nvidia marketing, reputation, driver interface, and general user experience is better. I stopped buying AMD when their driver gui changed to the current irritating mess a few years ago.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,717   +1,377
Other explanation is Nvidia marketing, reputation, driver interface, and general user experience is better. I stopped buying AMD when their driver gui changed to the current irritating mess a few years ago.
Marketing and reputation are probably main reasons. I doubt most people have experience about Nvidia AND AMD cards.

I can partially agree with driver GUI. It's sad that everything must be mobile crap nowadays.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 2,612   +3,197
TechSpot Elite
"Could this be the end of EVGA?"
- Such ridiculous hyperbole! In 2008, did you think that XFX was dead too?

EVGA won't cease to exist just because they're not making GeForce anymore. EVGA has been selling top-quality PSUs (among other things) for years and will just shift to making Radeon cards like XFX did. Have people forgotten that XFX used to be a big GeForce manufacturer back in the day? They simply switched to producing Radeons and are still in business today. EVGA says that they won't do this... yeah, OOOOKKKK, sure! :laughing:

It has been demonstrated that you can use the exact same cooler design on both GeForce and Radeon GPUs without issue so it's not like EVGA is going to have to change much except their silicon supplier. EVGA's legendary customer service will prompt a lot of people to jump ship just a lot of people did with XFX for the same reason back in 2008.

EVGA will be just fine. The real question is, will Jayz2Cents survive this? I bet he's bawling his eyes out because now he can't shill for nVidia without being called out as a liar because he calls himself an "EVGA Fanboy". We all know better though, don't we? :laughing:
 
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