Global Warming

[Spike]

i will admit that here in america, we like big things

however the general public does not have the ability to produce anything, we simply buy and use what is avialable to us. it really doesn't matter what we want, it's whatever makes the contracted companies the most money is what will be produced. if we could buy a big truck and have it get 50 MPG... don't you think we would buy it??

I drive a Dodge Dakota 1/2ton truck with a 4.7 liter V-8 engine. it gets about 12MPG city and 16MPG highway. this is about average for large trucks and SUVs. am I evil for owning and driving a "gas-guzzler" like this?? i think not.

don't blame the american people for driving gas guzzlers, blame the manufacturers and the government for not producing and mandating fuel efficient models. you would find very few (if any at all) americans who enjoy paying a fortune for gas.

Nobody blamed anyone.

I would say though that it works both ways. The manufacturers and corporations will only make a product that they think people will buy. That goes for any population anywhere in the world. If they think or observe that the people don't want something, or would prefer to buy something else, they won't make it.

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

IBN, please do not bring up that issue, that will start an arguments of its own. some ppl like what America is Doing, others dont, everyone has their own opinion, but please dont bring that up.

thank you
...AMD

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

At the moment, it's just under one pound per litre (1000 ml - we don't measure by the gallon).

Anyhow, it's a little besides the point, as it's the government tax on it that's making it so expensive, as a deterrant to driving (apparently). Our government offers NO subsidy to auto manufacturers or importers though. If the people of the US were all using the cars we do over here, at your gas prices, it would be like going back to the 1930's in price terms. lol

Seriously, if Americans used our newer UK/Eropean (and dare I say it, japanese (blasphemy!!!) lol) vehicles (well, left hand drive versions, obviously), US motoring would be very very cheap indeed..

the US government imposes a $0.19 tax on each gallon of fuel, but price gouging is suspected by the major oil companies ( BP, Shell, Marathon ) and our president ( George Bush ) made a statement about a month ago that the gov. is seriously investigating price gouging by the oil companies.

 

[KingCody]

our president ( George Bush ) made a statement about a month ago that the gov. is seriously investigating price gouging by the oil companies.

haha oh now that's hilarious.

I remember that "speech", but did you hear anything about it afterwards?? the oil companies made very high profits at the expense of the general public. it made the news a couple of days, but then it dissapeared.

and "dubya" isn't going to investigate anything, he was just yes-ing the american people to death. you don't think alot of his campaign contributions come from the big oil companies???

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

well yes i know that GB didnt do a darn thing about it. Heck hes getting rich off all this gas price stuff. You cant tell me that he doesnt own some sort of stock or company in big oil companies

 

[mscott00]

don't blame the american people for driving gas guzzlers, blame the manufacturers and the government for not producing and mandating fuel efficient models.

Ok, so lets start blaming cigarette companies for people smoking. Sounds to me like we are diverting responsability, and saying, "well since it's not mandatory its not my fault." You just as easily could have bought a Jetta.

 

[mephisto_007]

while it is true that america has all the needed technology available to it, however that doesn't mean they can use it.

you have to realize that the american government is indirectly controlled by big corporations. large corporations have lobbyists working non-stop. and many corporate big-wigs are buddy buddy with politicians, or have business relations with them. politicians will not step in because almost all of their campaign contributions come from the same companies that are polluting.

while environmental laws have gotten tougher, they are still far from where they need to be, and they still need to be enforced. however i don't see this becoming a reality. when a CEO has to decide between: [A: reduce pollution and take a pay cut to cover the associated costs] or [B: leave things as is (or maybe even pollute more) and get a salary raise and a nice bonus]... which option do you think they will choose?

to get into high ranking positions in government and big corporations, you often have to lie/cheat/steal your way up to the top. these types of people waved goodbye to ethics and morals long ago, but unfortunetly they are the majority of people in control.

ok, I'm done with my government/corporate corruption spiel

and BTW, America may be the biggest offender, but they are not the only ones at fault.

I'm glade you said it...

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

Ok, so lets start blaming cigarette companies for people smoking. Sounds to me like we are diverting responsability, and saying, "well since it's not mandatory its not my fault." You just as easily could have bought a Jetta.

Jetta were rated the worst compact car by consumer reports BTW

Do what my parents do, buy a hybrid.

My moms accord gets 44MPG and has all the luxeries that normal cars have if not more. She has a navigation system, heated seats, auto dimming mirrors, the whole nine yards, and it was only like $2500 more than the regular (well that with our discount, both my mom and dad work at honda )

My dads civic has everthing that a normal one has, ad gets about 56MPG and it has a navi system too (my parents get lost alot, so if it wasnt for the Honda GPS system , they would never get any where) we also just bought the new Civic SI edition for my sister which isnt a hybrid, and gets about 34MPG and has a navi system (go figure) and heated leather seats, and also has 197HP and it was only about $19,500

 

[confused001]

global warming has made many people start blaming the car companies, though they do polute the environment, people should blame the diesal trucks that transport our produce, and our mechandise. They also couse pollution, and a lot more of it.
(Perhaps the government could make them run on some envrronmentally friendly fuel, (ie. methane, or in the future ethanol) that would clean up the environment a lot.

Global warming happens when people cut down trees. Perhaps the government, should give everyone a tree to plant. This would make our world a better place. For a tree does not use a lot of water to feed, but can clean a lot of the air.

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

Yes, very true.

As i said above, cars dont have to be expensive and feature lacking, to be fuel efficient and produce less pollution.

My parents Hybrids use far less fuel, and what ends uo coming out the tailpipe is only about 40% of what comes out of a strictly fossil fuel vehicle

 

[XenaWP]

...
My moms accord gets 44MPG and has all the luxeries that normal cars have if not more. She has a navigation system, heated seats, auto dimming mirrors, the whole nine yards, and it was only like $2500 more than the regular (well that with our discount, both my mom and dad work at honda )

My dads civic has everthing that a normal one has, ad gets about 56MPG and it has a navi system too (my parents get lost alot, so if it wasnt for the Honda GPS system , they would never get any where) we also just bought the new Civic SI edition for my sister which isnt a hybrid, and gets about 34MPG and has a navi system (go figure) and heated leather seats, and also has 197HP and it was only about $19,500

That's amazing. Both because it's higher than the EPA ratings, and 90% of people aren't getting anywhere near the EPA ratings, which are known to be flagrantly off for hybrids.

Are your parents actually recording their mileage and gallons purchased and doing the math?

 

[confused001]

EPA should raise their acceptable levels of pollution.
THis would help out our global warming problem.

 

[AMDIsTheBest010]

Yes, we are getting that kind of miles. I need to correct myself though, I said on the "highway" and it should be in the CITY b/c in the city the cars only run on their electric engines, bet yea both my parents do the math thing everytime they fill up and thats the average of what they come up with.

Also they try and use the better gasoline when driving without the electric engine so idk if that helps more?

The improved fuel economy could also be in part to a new hybrid engine and body design. Honda inplanted a Magnetic piece into the engine thats delivers up to 80% better fuel efficiency.

The new body desighn helps also. For example, there are now metal covers over the tires, that help deflect air from getting caught in the wheel-well and they also lowered it to the ground more, so that deflects more air also. there is no antenna sticking up from the windsheild and its integrated into the rear window so that helps deflect air also.

 

[confused001]

Glabal warming sucks.
Some places get hotter,
and some places get colder.
Anyway, we humans do not like this, becasue it is causing a lot of trouble in our countries, some are facing huge droughts, while others are facing flooding.

 

[iss]

Oh yeah thank God for the enviornmentalists, whatever would we do without them? why we would be paying alot less for gas, but they thoughtfully blocked the construction of new oil refineries since the 1970's so the currnet price of gas isnt due to lack of oil it is due to lack of refineries to meet demand.

ALso we would still be stuck using cheap, harmless refrigerents. instead of the expensive, Lethal to humans refrigerent we now have. ( that right, if your new fridge springs a leak the escaping gas can kill you and your family) poor third world countries could still afford to refrigerate their foods, and there would be less deaths from food poisoning. but no ,thankfully our helpful enviornemntalists have seen to it that poor third world countries cant afford to refrigerate alot of their foods witht he expensive new gases.) all because the tree huggers claimed that CFC's were depleting the ozone layer. never mind that cow flatulence has more effect than CFC' do and no matter that thier "proof", the "hole" in the ozone layer has been shown to be a naturally re occuring phenomena, not associated with an at all.

But that probably wont stop the tree huggers fromn eventually pushing for legislation to force farmers and ranchers into equipping thier cows with emissons systems......LOL

oh and of course they have banned just about every effective pesticide. and now we have malaria and other insect borne diseases making big comebacks.

if the genral public ever wakes up and realizes what the enviornmentalists have cost them and what their agenda will cost thier children. the tree huggers will become tree ornaments at the end of a rope.

 

[sllewe]

Tree Hugger? How do you define that? Im interested to know.

I hate, (yes hate) when people generalize others.

I am a democrat, I want to protect the enviorment. If you want to do what is better for business, please dont get angry at me for it. My number one priority is the health and saftey of people, not the bottom line.

 

[iss]

Tree Hugger? How do you define that? Im interested to know.

A tree hugger is one who thinks that the things I posted are acceptable trade off's, that the "enviornment" is more important that people. and accept the unproven assertions of dire clalmaties that have no reall science to back them up. a tree hugger thinks that spiking tree's and putting luberjacks life at risk is acceptable to "defend the planet".

I am a democrat, I want to protect the enviorment.

Nothing wrong with that, unless your willing to simply swallow the swill and unproven assertions of the Enviornmental lobby about what is needed to protect the enviornment. dont you think you ought to at least have some valid scientific basis for not only what is wrong, but what can be fixed, or needs to be?

If you want to do what is better for business,

Business is what allows you the education and the leisure time to set around and pontificate your philosophical views on forums instead of spending your every waking hour in a sturggle for survival. Does that mean buinesses should be allowed to do whatever they woant ot pollute? no, but despising what allows you the lifestyle you have is absurd.

My number one priority is the health and saftey of people, not the bottom line.

Hardcore enviornmentalists dont share your view. they see the "safety of the enviornment" as being more important that any human considerations. in fact if yo do a little research on the views of the more vocal enviornmentalists you will find they despise humanity and consider humans a disease on the planet.

 

[Spike]

Well, when you consider that we've wiped out I don't know how many different species for nothing more than our own amusement, destroyed vast sections of Japan with nuclear weapons, destroyed a vast section of Russia with a nuclear power plant, and have thrown so much pollution into the air that the soot particles are actually counteracting the atmospheric "greenhouse gases" in the atmosphere which we've added to at quite a substantial rate, and the constant oil drilling that's not unknown to result in the de-stablisation of faults, etc, ect, etc... Lets face it, when looked at from that perspective, "disease" is a fair anaolgy for mankind.

The trouble is, we think we're the be all and end all of the world - and we're not. We are just a part of it, dependant on it, and at its mercy. Personally, I'd sooner see "anti lumberjack measures" in every tree of the rainforests. If it kills people cutting down the rainforests then tough luck - they shouldn't be cutting them down. Have you seen what we've done to the once Mighty Amazon river (or is that a stream these days?). There could be a cure for cancer in that rainforest, and I'd sooner find that than see some board director or company executive get a new redwood/mahogany dining table and chair set.

Environmentalists have been know to get it wrong from time to time, but I suspect I could list far more occasions where major faceless international corporations have if I looked it up.

Please, let's not let this thread degenrate any further. You've had your say, I've provided the other side. There is a place, purpose, and need for both ideologies and both groups of opinions.

The next step is to place a lock on it. Sad, but true - It's not out of hand yet, and it's not going to get out of hand.

 

[Liquidlen]

There is a man in the U.S. who has filed for a Patent on a cutting torch that uses water as fuel and produces 0 pollutants. He then immediately signed a Deal ( no monetary details published) with 1 auto company and 1 petroleum firm.???????????
Anyway there is only 1 way to make any headway with our irresponsible use of fossil fuels. That is to only buy and use environmentally friendly items as possible. Manufacturers will stop making the unfriendly items when they cannot sell them at any price.

 

[Spike]

He then immediately signed a Deal ( no monetary details published) with 1 auto company and 1 petroleum firm.???????????

That's big business and greed for you. I wonder when that technology will resurface for Joe Public? I saw the video of that in action and it was very impressive.

 

[Vigilante]

Wish I could even afford a better vehicle, let alone worry about my choices on the matter. lol.
Unless somebody comes out with cheap, small town car just for commuting or running errands, for $7000, I won't be buying a 25K hybrid anytime soon.

As for the capitalist vs. environmentalist scuffle, I just have to say, a person should not take one extreme or the other. Simple. Find a balance in the middle.
What good is a perfect environment at the sacrifice of humankind? Without people, why should we even CARE what the environment is like?
But by the same token, if we keep destroying the environment carelessly, we'll find it a very pour place to exist some day. And so naturally, find a balance.

I don't consider myself either of those extremes. I'd love to have some investments and profitable stock in a good company. And at the same time, I'd rather see grass then gravel, plant trees over architecture, open land versus a subdivision of housing.

I'd rather have no person get food poison, I'd rather have NO poisons sprayed over our crops. But what can you do?

The only thing people can change is themselves. You just do what you can, raise your kids to wisdom, support what deserves supporting, be against what deserves to go down. What else can you do? Change others? Hardly.

Sounds like another "who killed the electric car" thread. lol

 

[KingCody]

that probably wont stop the tree huggers fromn eventually pushing for legislation to force farmers and ranchers into equipping thier cows with emissons systems......LOL

haha

we laugh, but you know that somebody is working on prototypes in their basement as we speak.

 

[sllewe]

dont you think you ought to at least have some valid scientific basis for not only what is wrong, but what can be fixed, or needs to be?

Id rather play it on the safe side, and ensure we can live on this earth for as long as it provides what we need.

Does that mean buinesses should be allowed to do whatever they woant ot pollute? no, but despising what allows you the lifestyle you have is absurd.

But where do we draw that line?

 

[smtkr]

I do the best that I can. I bought a Honda Civic this summer that can get 41mpg highway and about 36 city (measured by me). Most people do.

I get a little upset when people complain about high petrol prices from their gas guzzling trucks. My father is an allegory of this mentality. I heard him make all sorts of conspiracy theory claims about the complicity of the oil companies and the U.S. government. He's one of the knuckleheads who purports a dependency on his huge pickup truck (when he really could make sue with a compact car). Some people need to realize that oil is a commodity (just like gold and copper) which trades on the open market. It's price fluctuations are slaves to the laws of supply and demand.

Until Americans end their love affairs with SUVs and other gas guzzlers, demand will continue to be high. Do we expect people from developing nations not to buy cars as their economies develop? Just wait until China's superheated economy catches up and you have millions more people sucking petrol. It will only exacerbate the problem. Of course, we could get lucky(????) and have the ineluctible dollar crash sooner rather than later (it has to happen sometime). Then the entire world will fall into a monster depression accompanied by pandemic banking failures and government bankruptcies (just look at Japan, whose government debt is ~150% of GDP--those asian bubbles that popped in the 1990s left a lot of governments in debt bailing out their banking failures--they can't afford to do it again). If that happens, we don't have to worry about high petrol prices.

</rant>

I'm too tired and jlka;ss zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Tedster]

gonna have ethanol at a local gas station in one month.... can't wait!!!

I have a flex fuel truck.