Hertz 180: Rental giant to sell 20,000 EVs and replace them with gas-powered vehicles

[TomSEA]

What truth is that exactly? You realize fossil fuel reserves are finite, right? We will run out at some point. Everyone will have to switch to something else eventually, it's inevitable. You ICE fans can snicker all you want, but there will come a day when gasoline will cost $20/gallon. I would love to see the look on your face then. We are using nearly 100 million barrels of oil per day right now. Do the math, that's 3.6 BILLION barrels per year.

You do know that there's also a finite amount of lithium and nickel being mined to make batteries, right? At some point in time that's going to run out. Unless they come up with a new way to make batteries or an alternative to vehicles that doesn't rely on stuff we drill/mine out of the ground - it's all just a matter of time.

 

[Superconductor]

1000s of of the largest companies companies on the planet are totally wrong.

But the 12.5 people here worshiping the ICEs and the fossilized oil companies are all 128% correct.

The same dinosaurs-to- be who vommed exactly the same gems about solar energy, wind energy, etc.

Wind and solar are supplements, not total replacements. Wake up! And your inclination to completely miss the depths of the discussion and instead, resort to pejoratives and laugh-out-loud number slinging also goes to show utter lack of cognitive depth.

 

[toooooot]

If they ever get the EV's range in ANY weather condition to match ICE, and, get the recharge to 100% the same amount of time it takes to fill up an ICE vehicle, then, get the PRICE DOWN, I might think about it.

I would also ask that an old EV, if it has less than advertised charges, stays drivable . If the chemistry in a battery degrades the battery after x years regardless of charge cycles, that puts an EV below a low usage old ICE car

 

[pcnthuziast]

Make Automobiles Gas Again

 

[Jim Lahey]

I see some interesting takes in the comments but I’ll add my flavor:

Rental car companies have a very specific set of parameters that are a bit different from a typical ownership - fuel costs are basically a nonissue for them, since the renter pays.

Their concern is about cost to purchase and maintenance/repair, both of which are currently better with well established ICE.

On the other hand, I saw some comments about “typical renters being curious about EVs but lacking planning knowledge” - I don’t personally buy this. If anything, most people renting for a trip would be prime candidates to try out an EV, I think the truth of it is that EVs still demand some sacrifices. If I am on vacation or business trip, the last thing I want is to be planning how to use my rental.

Not saying my reality is equivalent to everyone else’s, but these are some caveats I can spot.

 

[ShadowDeath]

Truth is that the ICE have an atrocious energetic outcome of around 20%. So you lost about 80% of the energy in the process.

In comparison, having a powerplant burning fuel to power EUV has a way better energetic outcome than any ICE would provide.

The truth is coming out and I am enjoying the whole thing...

I couldn't help but notice you excluded the issue that people actually tend complain about when it comes to EVs. Have you ever seen how Lithium is mined? Most people don't because the majority of it isn't even done in our back yard. nytimes did a pretty decent article back in 2021 about a mine from a dormant volcano in Northern Nevada that they planned on blasting open. The locals protested because it apparently required "billions of gallons" of ground water which could potentially contaminate it for 300 years according to the article.

I personally don't mind EVs... but I'm not ok with Lithium for batteries. Then again It's probably because I spent most of my professional life using cordless drills in one form or another. The batteries always degrade over time and when it comes to lithium, it's hard to find anyone to recycle them, and most places are afraid to mess with them due to the potential of rupture when working on them. Also that's why your phone seems to slow down after 2 years. It's not that your phone itself is getting old, it's because the battery is degrading and it can't supply the charge needed when needed like it did when it was new.

We are a very long way off from being able to use EV full time like we can cars and asking people to switch to an EV full time is a bad idea. Imagine taking a road trip and not seeing any gas stations that you can fill your car at. Now imagine that in an EV where people can't just pull over and dump gas into your tank.

I think we should focus on plug-in hybrids until our battery tech and charging capabilities catch up.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Better at what, range sure, polluting urban areas' hell yes, giving money to countries who are enemies of democracy 100%. Nicer to drive, not on your life.

Oh no! Not the democracy hating countries.....like the ones that supply cobalt and nickle for EV batteries via slave labor. Definitely not doing the same thing as oil based vehicles.

It's not just range. Repair costs and accessibility are far better on ICE vehicles. That's going to matter a LOT more to urban owners then pollution, virtue signalling doesnt put food on the table. Not everybody wants a macbook for a car.

As for the pollution....my man, when the environmentalists stop fighting nuclear power as a viable replacement for coal and nat gas, I'll believe they care about pollution. As it stands, they'd rather burn off tremendous amounts of nat gas to make electricity and get rid of nuclear because it's "icky" and somehow claim they are reducing emissions.

1000s of of the largest companies companies on the planet are totally wrong.

But the 12.5 people here worshiping the ICEs and the fossilized oil companies are all 128% correct.

The same dinosaurs-to- be who vommed exactly the same gems about solar energy, wind energy, etc.

Large companies make terrible decisions all the time. Remember who BMW and coca cola supported in the 30s? Giants like sears, enron, nokia, blackberry, ece mismanaged themselves into extinction?

The push for solar and wind ignores the needs of baseline power, and the same people pushing for green energy violently oppose nuclear power, which has been viable since the 60s. Modern gen IV reactors are nothing like the gen II three mile island style (and three mile failed correctly, but people will freak out because MuH rAdIaTiOn) yet we see nuclear decommissioned in favor of natural gas, which emits far more CO2 and relies on fossil fuels, as a "green" energy. This is what we call "hypocrisy".

 

[loki1944]

Can't blame them; I will never buy an EV; there's going to be plenty of oil long after we're all dead 1000 times over and can get gas powered vehicles for a few thousand dollars; my last pickup cost $1500; helluva lot easier to stomach than EV prices..

 

[loki1944]

Don't fix what isn't broken. Gas has worked fine for over a century.

This garbage is becoming so nauseating.

yeah; you don't even see electric cars in my part of the US; average person has no interest in EVs at all; prices+winter=no. Honestly it just makes me think of that PETA episode in South Park.

 

[JamesBlond]

EV's are 2000yrs from being good
The process to manufacture an Petrol/Deisel vehical which can be recycled is cheap
EV cannot be recycled, only the body not the engines and not the batteries....so the cost to the planet is 10000x worse that petrol or diesel....

 

[wiyosaya]

You do know that there's also a finite amount of lithium and nickel being mined to make batteries, right? At some point in time that's going to run out. Unless they come up with a new way to make batteries or an alternative to vehicles that doesn't rely on stuff we drill/mine out of the ground - it's all just a matter of time.

And you do know, I assume, that the "issues" with Lithium are well-known in the EV/PHEV industry? And I also assume that you do know that battery research is probably one of the hottest topics in scientific research these days? And you do know that there are efforts to reduce or eliminate the use of lithium in batteries?

Take for instance this article - https://www.techspot.com/news/101486-microsoft-ai-found-new-material-replace-lithium-li.html which states that an electrolyte has been identified that reduces the amount of lithium in the battery.

Or how about this company and their battery which is currently in a trial phase. Their battery uses absolutely ZERO lithium.

IMO, to base an opinion on the current state of things is to ignore what is already in the pipeline. Lithium batteries, eventually, will be a thing of distant memory. I'll liken expecting Lithium batteries to live on is akin to expecting the Earth to stop rotating on its axis.

 

[wiyosaya]

EV's are 2000yrs from being good
The process to manufacture an Petrol/Deisel vehical which can be recycled is cheap
EV cannot be recycled, only the body not the engines and not the batteries....so the cost to the planet is 10000x worse that petrol or diesel....

EVs cannot be recycled? Have a look at this - https://pressroom.toyota.com/cirba-...tery-recycling-network-to-nationwide-program/
2000 years?
We believe you.

 

[wiyosaya]

Oh no! Not the democracy hating countries.....like the ones that supply cobalt and nickle for EV batteries via slave labor. Definitely not doing the same thing as oil based vehicles.

It's not just range. Repair costs and accessibility are far better on ICE vehicles. That's going to matter a LOT more to urban owners then pollution, virtue signalling doesnt put food on the table. Not everybody wants a macbook for a car.

Another expert, misinformed, no less, heard from. https://e360.yale.edu/digest/energy...rcent-less-to-maintain-than-conventional-cars and https://www.motortrend.com/news/government-ev-ice-maintenance-cost-comparison/

As for the pollution....my man, when the environmentalists stop fighting nuclear power as a viable replacement for coal and nat gas, I'll believe they care about pollution. As it stands, they'd rather burn off tremendous amounts of nat gas to make electricity and get rid of nuclear because it's "icky" and somehow claim they are reducing emissions.

Strawman argument. Got it!

As for the rest of the misinformed bs argument - TL;DR

 

[wiyosaya]

I see some interesting takes in the comments but I’ll add my flavor:

Rental car companies have a very specific set of parameters that are a bit different from a typical ownership - fuel costs are basically a nonissue for them, since the renter pays.

Their concern is about cost to purchase and maintenance/repair, both of which are currently better with well established ICE.

On the other hand, I saw some comments about “typical renters being curious about EVs but lacking planning knowledge” - I don’t personally buy this. If anything, most people renting for a trip would be prime candidates to try out an EV, I think the truth of it is that EVs still demand some sacrifices. If I am on vacation or business trip, the last thing I want is to be planning how to use my rental.

Not saying my reality is equivalent to everyone else’s, but these are some caveats I can spot.

You made my argument for me. How? By expecting that the best place to try an EV is a rental agency and saying, at the same time, the following:

If I am on vacation or business trip, the last thing I want is to be planning how to use my rental.

Take my advice: When on vacation or a business trip, especially if you plan to be driving substantial distances, rent the ICE vehicle instead and go to a dealer to "test drive" an EV.

 

[wiyosaya]

yeah; you don't even see electric cars in my part of the US; average person has no interest in EVs at all; prices+winter=no. Honestly it just makes me think of that PETA episode in South Park.

Is that the part of the country where people say "Hybirds, aren't they for shooting?"

 

[yRaz]

Lithium doesn't need to be mined. There is more Lithium in Ocean water than in all of the world's Lithium mines combined. Lithium is actually the second most abundant element on earth and were getting to the point where we are generating so much renewable energy that we actually have to shut off wind mills and solar panels so why we aren't using it to desalinate ocean water instead of mining Lithium is beyond me. Lithium is naturally found as a salt.

Frankly, both sides are doing some pretty stupid things and it's preventing us from making progress. They're too busy arguing over which is better that neither side realizes that both options suck. Petroleum needs to go because of how many people it kills. It causes wars, political instability and even is indirectly responsible for world hunger.

However, the renewable energy crowd is too busy playing the noble knight that they are actually hindering progress. We can create enough renewable energy that we can suck CO2 out of the atmosphere and turn it into chemical energy. or we could harvest the methan created by all of our landfills and use that as a fuel, there is significantly more being generated by our garbage than by cow farts but noone seems to talk about that.

 

[Underdog]

A much stronger casing for battery with shock proof defense inside could help the battery survive and stay intact even in serious collisions.
Although, I wonder how many batteries would still be thrown away because a compromised battery is still a fire risk.

Stronger shock proof casings will result in the car being even heavier plus the extra cost to manufacture. I would venture to suggest that EVs should be much smaller, and lighter requiring smaller batteries and be used primarily for shorter journeys in cities where range is not an issue.

 

[toooooot]

Stronger shock proof casings will result in the car being even heavier plus the extra cost to manufacture. I would venture to suggest that EVs should be much smaller, and lighter requiring smaller batteries and be used primarily for shorter journeys in cities where range is not an issue.

Smaller always means fewer chances of survivability in a crash. I know where I live and have seen how people drive their huge SUVs. Small cars are not for people who want to live.

 

[hwertz]

Well, it's like this... you are renting a rental car to either go on a road trip (in which case, you may already even have an electric car and renting a gasoline vehicle for it's longer range); or renting to vacation in the town you are in. In which case you would likely still prefer to be able to spend 2 minutes out of your vacation buying gas versus an hour waiting for the vehicle to charge (since you are renting the electric vehicle I'm not even conisdering the possibility that, by total dumb luck, you just happen to have a charger to plug into overnight where you happen to be staying.)

I currently have a 2013 Cruze (40MPG highway and a 16 gallong gas tank -- a 640 mile fuel range definitely means no range anxiety...). I *love* the concept of a plug-in hybrid; I have an outlet (admittedly a regular 120V outlet so charging off it will be quite slow), and TYPICALLY drive under 20 miles a day (usually like 1-2 miles MAYBE).... so I'd be able to be all-electric a large portion of the time. But then I'll have a gas engine and fuel tank to use for road trips. Best of both worlds IMHO.

Long term, I think we can have revival of the rest stops, nice places to stop and get a meal or at least waste time for a half hour or hour while you can hook up to one of the plenty of chargers there and, well, charge. I'm not going to crap on electric cars long-term. But present-term, that infrastructure is not there; reportedly the Tesla chargers are in OK shape, but several other charging networks (even with chargers that are only 2-3 years old in some cases) already have all these dead chargers, "degraded" chargers that charge at about half-rate, and all too often oddly located so they're like behind banks and whatever, not in locations one may want to spend a half hour or hour.

 

[Underdog]

Smaller always means fewer chances of survivability in a crash. I know where I live and have seen how people drive their huge SUVs. Small cars are not for people who want to live.

Your reasoning might explain the American fetish for guns. They don't feel safe unless they have one.
You might wish to look outside the US where cars have always been smaller. People in large SUVs and the fashionable huge pickups experience a lack of feedback from the road, reduced sensation of speed, and the subconscious feel of invulnerability so they think they can drive like *****s and crash and they will be OK. Add the distraction of mobile phones infotainment panels and touch screen controls and you have the perfect scenario for reduced driving skills. Add the stupidity of "driver assisted" systems and you have the crash test dummy situation.
Size isn't the answer. Good driving skills can avoid the crash in the first place.

 

[Hotlynx16]

The truth is coming out. I'm enjoying the whole thing.

I cracked up when I heard this!Hertz is so EVIL anyway, they report cars as stolen when they are 15 min late on returning!

 

[Superconductor]

I cracked up when I heard this!Hertz is so EVIL anyway, they report cars as stolen when they are 15 min late on returning!

They - like Avis - also get real crooked on charging people for tanks of fuel at stupid levels/per gallon when vehicles are returned FULL. SFO has to be the worst! (1st hand experience..)