Is it time to abolish college grades entirely? Why American universities are handing out too many A's

[Nima304]

When I was a professor (at a private university teaching in a cybersecurity program), my chair told me on several occasions to not count failing assignments towards students' grades, to ensure that everyone passed. I refused, but I'm not sure if those grades were changed anyway after I submitted them at the end of the semester.

Artificially increasing grades just to ensure people pass (or to increase their GPAs) makes me sick, and it's a huge reason why degrees mean a lot less now than they used to in the past.

 

[Plutoisaplanet]

I’ll point out something new… As someone who works in higher ed, yes costs have inflated greatly. A big aspect to that is colleges outsourcing services they used to do alone. For example, there are now learning management systems, accessible student management, online bookstores, digital course catalog management and more.

This used to be done by hand, but now colleges are paying other companies for these services. And higher ed employees aren’t paid well, but these companies are while controlling their own prices.

Anyways, there is one thing that has possibly limited bad grades from being given out because universities use services to improve “student success” and proactively reach out to students who are falling behind even in the middle of the semester. This includes services like DegreeWorks and CRM’s. If you want to learn about how colleges are changing, just google student success.

 

[TheBigT42]

Perhaps the real issue is that people in society place far too much faith on meaningless and very arbitrary measures of alleged achievement. College grades are ultimately meaningless. It does not matter if you graduated with perfect grades or mediocre scores in terms of how competent you are at your job. Something something the old adage about judging a fish by how well it can climb trees.

Some of the brightest people I've met never were academically gifted according to their transcripts, yet anybody who ever spoke with them could tell they were clearly gifted in their craft. One of them now runs their own semiconductor design firm and "allegedly" signed a licensing deal for their IP to a GPU company.

I agree what I learned in College back in the 1990s is totally useless today. It did teach me how to think, problem solve, and be creative.

 

[TheBigT42]

I’ll point out something new… As someone who works in higher ed, yes costs have inflated greatly. A big aspect to that is colleges outsourcing services they used to do alone. For example, there are now learning management systems, accessible student management, online bookstores, digital course catalog management and more.

This used to be done by hand, but now colleges are paying other companies for these services. And higher ed employees aren’t paid well, but these companies are while controlling their own prices.

Anyways, there is one thing that has possibly limited bad grades from being given out because universities use services to improve “student success” and proactively reach out to students who are falling behind even in the middle of the semester. This includes services like DegreeWorks and CRM’s. If you want to learn about how colleges are changing, just google student success.

We just moved to Degree Works last year at the University I work at

 

[Neatfeatguy]

Yikes, man. I get that you're frustrated with changes in education, but your version of reality feels really out of touch with the bigger picture. Sure, things have changed since you were a kid, but simplifying today's challenges by dismissing an entire generation as "soft" or "p~$%ified" is just wrong.

You paint a nostalgic picture of the past, but I’m old enough to know that "back in the day" wasn’t some golden era where everything worked perfectly, especially not in education. Kids weren’t magically better equipped to handle adversity, and plenty of serious issues were just swept under the rug—bullying, abuse, discrimination, mental health struggles—things we’re finally addressing today.

Look, I’m not saying I love every aspect of modern education or that societal norms around kids today don’t have flaws. But pretending that harsh, old-school methods were some kind of cure-all or that today's kids are inherently weak doesn’t hold up. Every generation faces unique challenges, and it's not a sign of weakness to acknowledge mental health, emotions, or fairness—those are signs of progress.

Call it what you want, but I call it how I see it. They are pussified - clearly that's a generalization for most of them. There are outliers that give hope for their generations.

My high school daughter is concerned about many of the kids in her high school that are useless, they can't hold a conversation or even be able to simply look someone in the eyes while trying to talk to them, many have troubles showing up to class on time, use their phones during classes, hand in their homework late with no consequences and the list goes in. They're attached to social media, looking for approval and trying to always have the spotlight on them. If they don't get what they want there become loud, arrogant, mean and resort to violence (hitting, throwing things, breaking things and so on).

Adjusting how grading is done just adds to their egos of thinking they're good at something they're not. These kids need to learn their limits and then learn how to push theirselves past that so they can better theirselves and their society.

 

[ThomasTECH]

Higher education institutions have been capitalizing on youth aspirations, but they are still a symbol of a striving person, a path for someone who seeks to grow is there for them even if it a trap for many. The systems of education are broken but not beyond repair. Just need a few major changes and better learning systems.

 

[Ecurb]

I had been taking courses from non edu MOOCs and learning a bunch (Django, etc). I then decided to take an online course from MIT. It has to be good, right? Bottom line conclusion was that the output of the non EDUs was learned info, while the output of the MIT course was a grade (and uncertainty why I got it and what I hadn't learned). I learned so much more from non EDU courses than EDUs. So much is obsolete in our current higher education. "Higher Ed" should probably decline and more independent learming should be exploding (probably is, just need to be recognized and rewarded with employment).

 

[ChrisH1]

If universities won’t do it, it will be inevitable that firms hiring will set up an entry exam, or some third party organization will set up ‘voluntary’ supplemental exams. Real life employment isn’t about handing out participation trophies.

 

[Durch]

College is a for-profit business that stuffs their programs with useless classes on the excuse of making you "well rounded" to rake in profits. This is why they push through students with passing grades, if they didn't, they wouldn't make money.

I honestly would not recommend anyone who is the average person go to college until the system is fixed. Go to a trade school or work your way up and gain experience, you'll save money in the long run and get a real world education rather than the garbage that is taught in schools today, which has to be worse than it was 20 years ago. As long as you apply yourself, can critically think and have a fair bit of common sense, you'll be fine.

 

[Mihai S]

If you have not realized by now that "higher education" is just a racket I don't know what to tell you.

It seems that way, and I agree with you, but there is not much one can do about it. If I hadn't gone to university and then graduate school, I wouldn't be where I am career wise and financially. That piece of paper you get at the end remains far too valuable from multiple points of view. I will add that I did work hard for my grades, though.

But I have seen first-hand graduate schools treating students as customers with the customer-is-always-right approach, where certain actions that should have had consequences bore none at all. Simply because said students were paying tens of thousands of dollars to be there. Not to mention that inflating grades also makes a school look better in the rankings.

In my opinion, education should be non-profit, and the schools' attitude should be non-profit. The commercialization of education has been polluting its purpose, IMHO.

 

[BabaYaga]

Top schools don't use grading curves. They don't have GPAs. They don't need entrance exams. This system is designed to keep peasants down. You don't even realize it. I'll give you some real life scenarios from my experience.

1. School has a curve where it gives 20% As....20% Ds/Fs.

No matter how smart you are, this curve is all relative. You could know the subject inside out and still not get an A. What's even worse is that 20% of the kids even if they have a decent handle of the subject, will fail out with a ruined transcript that will follow them for the rest of their life and probably $50k in debt if they failed out the first year. $100k if they made it to their second year. They will have no way to repay this debt since they didn't get the degree that would have paid for it. Schools like this are ruining people's lives.

2. Schools are gate keepers to the real prestigious careers.

All the wealthy kids automatically get into Ivy league schools and other top schools. It's not a secret. Deans have a list of wealthy kids that when they apply, they're automatically in. They have an entire department dedicated to tracking wealth of the top 5%. The tuition directly tracks that. That's why you see stories how tuition is out of control. It's not. It's tracking what it's meant to track. They have dossiers on every rich person out there. Your kids are the only ones that will have to fight for a spot. You want to make it as hard as possible on them, that's your choice.

3. One bad grade will be used as an excuse to keep you out of certain fields.

Interview for a top job and you'll be asked to bring your transcript even though you went to school 20y ago. They will point to that C and say you don't seem to handle pressure.

If you are a peasant and want hard grading, you're just hurting youself. You want to go to a school that only gives As and Bs. How well do you remember that subject that you got an A in? You think some number determines how well someone will do in a workplace? There are so many variables that go into how one got a certain grade.

 

[Neatfeatguy]

College is a for-profit business that stuffs their programs with useless classes on the excuse of making you "well rounded" to rake in profits. This is why they push through students with passing grades, if they didn't, they wouldn't make money.

I honestly would not recommend anyone who is the average person go to college until the system is fixed. Go to a trade school or work your way up and gain experience, you'll save money in the long run and get a real world education rather than the garbage that is taught in schools today, which has to be worse than it was 20 years ago. As long as you apply yourself, can critically think and have a fair bit of common sense, you'll be fine.

My first year of college I went to the guidance councilor about testing out of some general classes because I did this stuff in high school and even learned some of these things in middle school. I couldn't test out of a couple and they were required....

The councilor told me that the college has students take these classes to become "well rounded" students. I laughed at him when he said that. I told him that if a student hasn't become "well rounded" from what they learned in middle and high school, then nothing they can do here will make them "well rounded" and it was a waste of people's time and money to force these classes on them. The councilor just kind of stared at me with his mouth agape.

It took him a moment to think of something to rebut what I said, but it was just a bunch of poppycock. Since I couldn't bypass a lot of unnecessary general courses I left the school. No sense in wasting my time and money. All this happened nearly 25 years ago, so even back then I learned that colleges were a general waste of time and money for most people.

 

[subnex]

As someone that has been both part of higher education and in a position to hire college graduates, I do not put a lot of emphasis on grades (GPA). I always look for the people with the extra things like research projects and additional work that sets them apart. Getting good grades does not always translate well to being a productive employee. Anyone trying to get the best possible job with just a GPA is going to struggle.

As for grade inflation, many institutions use student evaluations of faculty as a component in decisions related to tenure, promotions, and pay raises. This creates pressure on instructors to give higher grades to avoid negative evaluations from students (this teacher is too hard). As universities compete to attract students, some have been accused of inflating grades to make their institution more appealing by showing better student outcomes (We are the best, just look at our average GPA). Additionally, there has been less emphasis on penalizing students for poor performance and a greater focus on encouraging success (everyone gets a trophy).

Exactly this. If you get sub par ratings from the students your class is put under review and you might not get the prpmotion that you're after. The easiest way to get good ratings is unfortunately by pampering and giving good grades.

 

[Northy]

If you have not realized by now that "higher education" is just a racket I don't know what to tell you.

It's a racket that can help get you into other rackets though.

 

[bobc4012]

The solution to "grade inflation" is not to remove grades. It is to start grading ACCURATELY, not based on a student's race, background, "socio economic factors" or state interests, but on the work that student performs. Have we learned nothing from the removal of grades from elementary, then middle, and now high schools? All it does is pass the buck of inevitable failure for bad students further into their lives, and leave less time to correct issues. .....

Agree. The elitist (many of those are professors who are now beginning to object) are reaping what they sown over the years. I understand there is inequity and always will be, but that is part of life, not everyone is capable of doing college level work. I thought that was one of the purposes of SAT tests and the like - to weed out those who lacked the ability. They need to get back to the basics starting at the elementary level - reading, writing and arithmetic. I haven't been in the work force for over 30 years but when I interviewed new graduates back then too many could not adequately perform any of those 3 basic subjects. You still have academics complaining that tests like SAT don't take into account things like cultural differences. Understanding the basics should be the same across all cultures, today it is DEI run amok. I know, there will be some here who disagree, even vehemently, but it is time to wake up or else this country will be left behind (and it has already started).

 

[Northy]

@bobc4012
Many fail to understand the difference between equal opportunity and equal outcomes though, which has what has brought us to this point. Your sane voice in this insane situation would be drowned out by caterwauling if you tried to do anything about it. You'd be all the -ists in the world.

 

[jeffbert]

If everybody gets 100% correct, there is a problem with the test. If nobody gets better than 70%, there is a problem with the test. Given the idea that some students are better than others, the distribution of percentages of correct answers ought to show some variation. I think it is called the bell curve. There ought to be 'A's, 'B's, 'C's, and Ds. 'E's show that somebody is either not studying, or not ready for this class.

Also, is the test made to see how much the students learned, or how much they did not learn?

I was rather poor in public school, but much better when paying for school, as well as wanting to be there.

Some of the most difficult tests I have taken were multiple-choice ones. Some teachers / professors have ways of making this type very difficult. I recall electronics tech school; while the school's tests were not so bad, the ISCET (International Society Certified Electronic Technicians) test offered to graduates was VERY difficult. The questions seemed easy, but the choice of answers were very difficult!

Eventually I attended Community College & finally University. Nothing was as difficult as that ISCET test. Though I got straight 'A's in tech school, I could not pass the ISCET test, even after 2 attempts. Too much stress for a 3rd try.

There were community college classes that seemed to inflate the grades. My code would not compile, & I realized that I lacked the necessary patience for C++ coding. Still was given an 'A' for the course! It left me wondering why the professor gave me that 'A.'