Is Virtual Reality Missing Its Moment?

Jackwoz

Posts: 43   +36
The eye strain you are experiencing isn't due to the screen being close (unless you have a special eye condition). VR headsets have a focal point of 3 - 9 ft. What you are likely experiencing is an IPD issue. The Rift S doesn't have IPD adjustment, which means it won't work for everyone. For those that are outside the ideal range, you experience eye strain. If you have eyes that are abnormally wide or close, you need a headset with IPD adjustment.



Well you can already play alyx with mouse and keyboard. The feature is built right into the game for testing. That said everyone who has played it like that quickly realize how much the VR features add. The game was designed from the ground up for VR.



1. I have not seen any disruptions to delivery service during the pandemic unless it's international. Delivery is not the problem, production is. I've ordered dozens of computer parts during this pandemic and delivery has been completely normal.

2. The fact that electronics everywhere are sold out seems to suggest that this is precisely the time people are buying expensive electronics. Nearly every headset on the market (except for the bad ones) is sold out and even the used market is drying up. The price of the HTC used has gone from $350 USD to $650 USD. Clearly people are buying.



?? MMS is used to send pictures via text to this day.
Being in Australia, the delivery times (to WA) have blown out massively. Things that take a couple of day are taking several weeks. Yes, you are correct, manufacturing delays (in china) have caused huge shortages. And shops running out of VR will be due to teenagers trying to keep them selves occupied (This does not speak for adults, which would be the majority of people who 'have missed the moment'). So my point of not being able to get one still stands.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,418   +6,008
Being in Australia, the delivery times (to WA) have blown out massively. Things that take a couple of day are taking several weeks. Yes, you are correct, manufacturing delays (in china) have caused huge shortages. And shops running out of VR will be due to teenagers trying to keep them selves occupied (This does not speak for adults, which would be the majority of people who 'have missed the moment'). So my point of not being able to get one still stands.
Teenagers are not going out in droves buying VR headsets and gaming PCs, Adults are. Most teens can't afford a gaming PC, let alone VR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

avioza

Posts: 237   +199
The eye strain you are experiencing isn't due to the screen being close (unless you have a special eye condition). VR headsets have a focal point of 3 - 9 ft. What you are likely experiencing is an IPD issue.
My IPD is 64mm, well within average and the range for the Rift S.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,418   +6,008
My IPD is 64mm, well within average and the range for the Rift S.
Perhaps it's the refresh rate / your system's performance level. The Rift S only has a refresh rate of 80 Hz. Can't say eye strain from too low a refresh rate is common though, typically that results in motion sickness. I've got bad vision myself so I've had this talk with my doctor, VR itself is not any more detrimental to your vision then looking at any other monitor / TV (which is to say you should take periodic breaks as has always been recommended). VR creates a focal point 3 - 9 ft out so it's not like starring at a pencil a inch or so from your face.
 

avioza

Posts: 237   +199
Perhaps it's the refresh rate / your system's performance level. The Rift S only has a refresh rate of 80 Hz. Can't say eye strain from too low a refresh rate is common though, typically that results in motion sickness. I've got bad vision myself so I've had this talk with my doctor, VR itself is not any more detrimental to your vision then looking at any other monitor / TV (which is to say you should take periodic breaks as has always been recommended). VR creates a focal point 3 - 9 ft out so it's not like starring at a pencil a inch or so from your face.
1070ti on a Ryzen 2700x platform

I dont have this problem with my monitors. *Shrug*

The focal point of your gaze may be simulated, but there is indeed an opaque object a couple inches from your face.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,418   +6,008
1070ti on a Ryzen 2700x platform

I dont have this problem with my monitors. *Shrug*

The focal point of your gaze may be simulated, but there is indeed an opaque object a couple inches from your face.
Focal point is everything, simulated or otherwise. Take a cross eyed person and put a pencil an inch away from their face and tell them to focus on it. They will have problems. Put a VR headset on the same person with the screen being approximately the same distance, no problems focusing on objects.

Maybe you are experiencing strain due to visual artifacts from the lenses. Glare and chromatic aberration are common in fresnel lenses.
 
Virtual Reality keeps failing to catch on to the mainstream for the exact same reasons.

#1 One size doesn't fit all: aside from uncomfortable headsets, the visual acuity and motion-sickness tolerance of individuals varies wildly.

#2 The cost of the headsets - which increases exponentially as problem#1 is addressed with better optics, better materials, etc.

#3 The lack of developer commitment...they'd rather build games adapted to a TV display.

And I want to add what I think truly hurts VR more than anything else:

#4 There's no wireless HD video standard profile

Let's look at BLUETOOTH. Bluetooth is a standard. All developers need to know is how to program their audio systems for it and anything can carry data over bluetooth from a watch to a mouse to earphones. As far as I know, there's no wireless profile yet - with exception of possibly 5G - that can carry high HD video fast enough to perform at VR headset demands. You wouldn't want to use bluetooth headsets if they needed to be plugged into the wall. You wouldn't necessarily want to have the cumbersome wires of a VR headset either.


#5 There's no definitive control standard yet. Different game support different headsets with developer updates, but with the exception of PS' VR, the PC community headsets are wildly different. Playing Half Life Alyx on an HTC Vive is not as good as playing on the new Valve Index.

PS VR gave us a standardized VR profile that only works on PS. What we need is a corporatized VR system that can be used on everything else in the same way bluetooth works.



#6 I personally believe that people don't want to give up their stereo vision or their stereo hearing because they don't trust their environment. If you're on an airplane or a bus ride, you might be more likely to want to have a small, portable VR system to completely isolate you from the environment so you can enjoy your content.

But imagine being in a house or someplace with things going on around you that you can't perceive.

Most people, I believe are more comfortable having a big display, a good stereo system and being able to also see and hear what's going on around them.

That may be evolutionary when you get down to it.


#7 If I just spent $600 on a 70" Vision TV at Walmart...why would I want to spend more on a VR headset?

I can invite friends over and we can have game parties on the TV.

Unless everyone brings over a system or laptop, there's virtually no way to do that in my living room.


#8 I personally would love to have a VR system where I could get exercise. View attachment 86593
#4: the standard you are looking for is WiGig. Currently used on wireless HTC headsets. WiGig 2 is coming out like this year which is why all the tech companies have been waiting.

#5: standard controllers: A/B, X/Y, thumbstick, trigger, grip button, home & menu button

#7: headsets are $400 which is a lot more affordable now. Remember, people said the same thing when graphic cards first came out

 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 233   +225
VR is pretty much sold out, Steam jumped to nearly 2% of users and most people don't even keep their headsets hooked up so it doesn't count in the survey, also oculus quest units may never hook up to Steam.

It's not mainstream, but it shouldn't be yet, del Mar is rumored to be this year with what they are labeled Jedi user input. VR Chat is the social experience Pavlov VR is an excellent and fun call of duty VR clone.

While I will say it's still a niche community it's ever growing and it's miles beyond the cell phone versions of VR that were all together just terrible.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 233   +225
I bought the Rift S, it has been pretty solid. Google earth VR is great and there are some other cool games. I enjoyed the experience.

If I use it for more than an hour I get eye strain from staring at a screen 4 inches from my face even with the special lenses. It isn't nausea its just a strain on my eyes...

I just don't think it's good for my vision and there is no real way around that as far as I can tell. I use it occasionally for short periods but for me it's not for serious gaming.
Eye strain can be caused by the lack of ventilation to the eyes aka not getting enough oxygen to them, VR is not one of those things you are supposed to go 3-6hours straight playing every half an hour to hour take it off and walk away for a break, you in all likelihood will be better off, I have to do it with the Rift S not so much the Quest.
 

Fulltone

Posts: 12   +4
Some of it is too intense on the eyes and then cannot play as long. Somewhat eye information overload. Then the expense? Too much for what you see(imho).
 

geogan

Posts: 16   +12
The price of entry is a big thing. Most people have either no PC or a crappy low-end or old PC which cannot do VR rendering fast enough for anything worthwhile.

Then there is the price of headset on top of the high-end PC and high-end graphics card.

I mean the prices of the Valve Index is crazy - €300 for two controllers alone! €1,079 for controllers, headset and base stations.

I'd love to be able to upgrade from my Rift CV1 to that, but a) price is too much and b) it seems they are all sold out completely in the normal places I buy stuff.

Even the Rift S is not much of an upgrade, I feel like I am paying €440 for slightly upgraded lenses and nothing much else only a downgrade of other parts (way worse audio setup and no IPD adjustment). I mean did Facebook just give up or something?
 

dad0ts

Posts: 19   +5
Eye strain can be caused by the lack of ventilation to the eyes aka not getting enough oxygen to them, ...
I think one of the main reasons of eye strain is VAC - vergence accommodation conflict. Still not solved by any of the current VR devices, even the most expensive?
 

Gezzer

Posts: 79   +49
For me the biggest problem for VR isn't price or design, it's more down to how many consumers see it as a "must have" technology. 3D HDTVs suffered from the same problem. If something isn't a "checkbox" when making a purchasing decision most people simply can't justify the extra expense.

Think of how blu-ray became the standard for optical HD discs. Sony integrated a drive into all PS3s. The Xbox 360 came with a DVD drive and the HD-DVD was an accessory. I'm sure if Sony had gone the same route as MS many consumers would of skipped buying a add-on Blu-ray player too. Blu-ray became the standard because Sony stealth created the user base.

And even after that, how many people would you think still use DVDs? It might surprise you.
https://www.110220volts.com/blog/dvd-vs-blu-ray-youll-be-surprised-who-the-winner-is/

The problem with 3D HDTVs was the 3D capability added a cost most consumers couldn't justify. With VR it's an accessory like the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player at an additional cost which again most consumers can't justify. In fact I really doubt the majority of people who aren't hardcore gamers could justify it at a sub 100 dollar price point.

So no matter how well the tech improves and the price point is reduced IMHO it still won't drive adoption of VR. It needs a push like Blu-ray had. If Sony or MS not only create their consoles with enhanced VR capability but actually supplies a headset by default I can see it getting more market penetration. But I don't think either have it planned, so VR will continue to be a niche' product at best for the foreseeable future.
 

Polycount

Posts: 2,557   +553
Staff member
Is it missing its moment? I sort of hope so. Not in the sense that I want VR to die, but I don't have any interest in it becoming the "new way games are played." That was always one of my fears.

I like third person shooters, RPGs, isometric and puzzle games, I like the comfort and ease of playing with a controller or even keyboard and mouse, I like the freedom to quickly get up and do whatever I want, easily returning later.

As a standalone companion to "traditional" gaming platforms, I hope VR doesn't fail. I hope it thrives, and we continue to get exciting and hopefully commercially successful titles like Alyx in the future.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 233   +225
For me the biggest problem for VR isn't price or design, it's more down to how many consumers see it as a "must have" technology. 3D HDTVs suffered from the same problem. If something isn't a "checkbox" when making a purchasing decision most people simply can't justify the extra expense.

Think of how blu-ray became the standard for optical HD discs. Sony integrated a drive into all PS3s. The Xbox 360 came with a DVD drive and the HD-DVD was an accessory. I'm sure if Sony had gone the same route as MS many consumers would of skipped buying a add-on Blu-ray player too. Blu-ray became the standard because Sony stealth created the user base.

And even after that, how many people would you think still use DVDs? It might surprise you.
https://www.110220volts.com/blog/dvd-vs-blu-ray-youll-be-surprised-who-the-winner-is/

The problem with 3D HDTVs was the 3D capability added a cost most consumers couldn't justify. With VR it's an accessory like the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player at an additional cost which again most consumers can't justify. In fact I really doubt the majority of people who aren't hardcore gamers could justify it at a sub 100 dollar price point.

So no matter how well the tech improves and the price point is reduced IMHO it still won't drive adoption of VR. It needs a push like Blu-ray had. If Sony or MS not only create their consoles with enhanced VR capability but actually supplies a headset by default I can see it getting more market penetration. But I don't think either have it planned, so VR will continue to be a niche' product at best for the foreseeable future.
Naw it was content, and 3d capability on a flat panel isn't all that convincing considering the price they tried charging( you needed glasses and also a 3d bd player 300+$., The format was doomed to fail)
The main difference is for $400 you get all in one tracking and 1440p resolution I would argue that is a value compared to what most high refresh 1440p panel monitors sell for.
Keep in mind mainstream most people game at 1080p so it's a moot point.
The other problem is graphics, GPUs we're expensive this gen with little performance increase, most people didn't upgrade their 1060 or 1050ti which are 1080p cards so high refresh 1440p was off the table for most. That problem will be solved by next gen cards as pointed out by NVidia and AMD.
VR will eventually become a large chunk of gaming, mainstream who knows but it is the future and an evolution of having a flat screen in front of your face.
Personally I can only imagine a 4k 120fps Ray Traced game would look like in VR..sure it has a bunch of problems to solve but the percentage increases in users and money being spent not only on gaming but Enterprise is reaching large proportions. It's come a long way since 2016, and it's one of the largest growing fields in computers currently.
 
I'm hesitant to jump yet... I'm a rather extreme motion sickness sufferer...
I'm a life-long motorcycle rider as it seems to be the only form of transport I can use that does not induce motion sickness (I've never found out a satisfactory reason why).
Time to being physically ill is usually 30 to 60 min in any other form of transport!
So, I'm just waiting on the tech to reduce that particular issue even further, then I'll try and find a store that allows potentiual buyers to test various models in-store!
I'm super bummed about Facebook requirements on there range of products though, I've resisted the pull of that form of social media since inception... (and I'm a lifelong 55 yr old IT Business Systems Analyst specialising in Public Health Systems, so how I've managed that so far is anyones guess - LOL)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Irata
I'd venture a guess it would be gravitational forces as you lean into a curve remain toward your feet. When riding a car they shift from side to side.
That might explain why a helicopter through Alaska's glacial ranges also didn't affect me...(to be dropped off for a week-long hike down the glacial fields back to civilisation - BEST experience ever!)
Sweet! Now all we need (for me at least) is personal jetpacks or flying cars (or hover bikes!) Then I'll be sorted! LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: cliffordcooley

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 233   +225
I'm hesitant to jump yet... I'm a rather extreme motion sickness sufferer...
I'm a life-long motorcycle rider as it seems to be the only form of transport I can use that does not induce motion sickness (I've never found out a satisfactory reason why).
Time to being physically ill is usually 30 to 60 min in any other form of transport!
So, I'm just waiting on the tech to reduce that particular issue even further, then I'll try and find a store that allows potentiual buyers to test various models in-store!
I'm super bummed about Facebook requirements on there range of products though, I've resisted the pull of that form of social media since inception... (and I'm a lifelong 55 yr old IT Business Systems Analyst specialising in Public Health Systems, so how I've managed that so far is anyones guess - LOL)
In your extreme case, it may suck a bit, but remove the front eye shield, it will kill some of the immersion but it's the best way to remove motion sickness for people that have locomotion problems, also, depending I know some people that have issues but find the teleport movement sickening while regular moving doesn't cause them issues as long as frame rates are good.
 
In your extreme case, it may suck a bit, but remove the front eye shield, it will kill some of the immersion but it's the best way to remove motion sickness for people that have locomotion problems, also, depending I know some people that have issues but find the teleport movement sickening while regular moving doesn't cause them issues as long as frame rates are good.
Cheers for that RoP... I'll certainly give that a try when I get the next chance!
Would this then be called "Augmented VR?" (LOL)

I've been bummed watching tech friends getting involved in VR while I sat the sidelines...
Ironically, I want the seated VR experience the most as I'm getting to old to be jumping around all over the place (and not pay for it later) and I play games like Skyrim (heavilly modded of course), Elder Scrolls Online, Elite Dangerous, Fallout 4 (heavilly modded of course)(although I can see the appeal of room scale for this one and Skyrim)...