Latest AMD Radeon drivers are meant to address black screen issues

[CharmsD]

The entire premise of his post was based on that being true ... so I doubt it. Just horribly flawed logic.

The word I used was "observation" ...[/QUOTE]

Noted. The quoted post seems different from the first time I read it, wish I had a photographic memory..

I read through all the threads and forums re this issue, and since everyone tends to publish their PC specs, I can see through observation, that there are generally more complaints coming from Nvidia users ... this thread is a good start to try and notice this, but feel free to check others as well.

The fractious nature of forums derives from unrelenting tests between WinTelVidia fans, WinAMD fans and so forth..obviously. Complaints on hot-topics about the subject are legion, meanwhile others support them, that seems fairly normal, but egos get stoked and defensiveness rises, and that's not helpful. Being aware of it can be. All of us want our voices to be heard, we want to express our views and perspectives, of course 'trolls' come through on a tear, but we can't let them color our experiences.

It goes beyond my centrist nature to delve into the type of computers people own or their participation ratio. I think studying comments for trends or hard facts is...loaded with a probability to be less than accurate. Just saying. I don't have a totally neutral position, I prefer Intel and Nvidia products, but I also own old-er and recent components from the major players.

I`m not saying there was no issues (but I didn't have any), and I am sure someone will conflate my observation as stated with whether or not there was any issues (again, failed logic), so I`m pre-emptively throwing out that disclaimer.

Well maybe, just don't let it get to you. This has been a challenge, driver software has a massively non-trivial job, to receive and send commands to hardware. For a device as complex - ney, complicated, as a graphics card, driver perfection is equal to unobtanium.
AMD and Nvidia have both rolled out problematic drivers too many times, AMD's slow-walking (~7 months) the hard work to rectify 2019's problems, pissed off a lot of people. When someone has $300 to $500 on the line, it's understandable when they aren't happy when what they bought gives them problems they didn't expect. Taking the problem to the internet to find others are in the same boat, what can we expect? Anguish and frustration over spent money is virulent.

 

[wiyosaya]

<...>Complaints on hot-topics about the subject are legion, meanwhile others support them, that seems fairly normal, but egos get stoked and defensiveness rises, and that's not helpful. Being aware of it can be. All of us want our voices to be heard, we want to express our views and perspectives, of course 'trolls' come through on a tear, but we can't let them color our experiences.

Impressive! From my point of view, this is something that easily generalizes to almost all forum conversations; however, it takes some insight, IMO, to see it when it occurs. Well done!

Well maybe, just don't let it get to you. This has been a challenge, driver software has a massively non-trivial job, to receive and send commands to hardware. For a device as complex - ney, complicated, as a graphics card, driver perfection is equal to unobtanium.
AMD and Nvidia have both rolled out problematic drivers too many times, AMD's slow-walking (~7 months) the hard work to rectify 2019's problems, pissed off a lot of people. When someone has $300 to $500 on the line, it's understandable when they aren't happy when what they bought gives them problems they didn't expect. Taking the problem to the internet to find others are in the same boat, what can we expect? Anguish and frustration over spent money is virulent.

IMO, its unfortunate that AMD's previous leader had no technical knowledge. As I see it, that sent AMD down the rabbit hole. Developing good products takes competent leadership as well as money. I am not saying that if AMD had thoughtlessly thrown $$$ at the problem, it would have gotten better; however, if AMD had the money to spend and a competent leader, things may have been better.

Speaking as a developer, those kinds of problems, the intermittent ones that seem to happen only in special cases, can be exceptionally difficult to find. The more concrete information that those experiencing them can give to the development team, the better.

The fact that some experience driver problems and others never see any reminds me of WinDOHs 10 (apologies ) updates. Some have them (like me with one particular PC) and others don't.

It's hard to comprehend what such problems are like when one never has them. I would like to think that people are trying to be helpful when they have no direct experience; however, some people will never know what they don't know.

 

[wiyosaya]

Thinking about this a bit more - that PC that I have problems with WinDOHs 10 updates is an A10-7850K APU. After installing one of those updates and rebooting (it does auto logon), I was left with a black screen and only a mouse cursor. I don't know that this is the black screen problem, but it sounds like it might be.

Anyway, I always image backup before an update on that PC, so I restored the backup, and postponed updating again for quite some time.

When I finally did update again, there was no black screen problem.

I do not remember whether I updated the drivers in the meantime, so where did the problem lie? In WinDOHs or in the AMD driver?

If I am not mistaken, a colleague of mine at work that happens to have an AMD graphics card, also experienced this same black screen problem after a WinDOHs 10 update.

 

[Someone8MyPosts]

Comments like this make no one look good. The majority of people what had black screen issues are enthusiasts that build their own pcs and probably more knowledgeable average consumers.

So knowledgeable that they ended up with black screens. Truly experienced people don't bother tweaking so much.

 

[nnguy2]

So knowledgeable that they ended up with black screens. Truly experienced people don't bother tweaking so much.

What you said makes no sense. Getting black screen due to driver issues is not predicated on knowledge. Truly experienced people let AMD know they've tried everything and the black screen is a bug due to bad drivers.

 

[JimboJoneson]

...
I don't have a totally neutral position, I prefer Intel and Nvidia products, but I also own old-er and recent components from the major players.
...

I expect everyone to have some sort of bias, even if its just as trivial as the logo just happens to have their favourite colour in it.

What I don't expect, and what I tend to respond to in a smart assed way to some people (its just me, I'm full of sarcasm and facetiousness), is people using very obviously flawed logic, blatant untruths, or merely parroting something that someone else said without any understanding of the topic and asserting it as god given truth ...that irks me a little. (actually I just tend to like bothering people who tend to do that)

Of course people are free to leave an opinion and call it "their opinion" ... that works, no one can argue with that. But the erroneous assertion of a truth in a religious-like fervor isn't remotely helpful to anyone and often just makes the post look bad. <Jimbo quickly checks through past posts to make sure that it wasn't me>

At the point a person moves away from using the truth and acceptable logic (there's some subjectivity in "acceptable" here I suppose), to try to make their point, is the point they lost their point.

But, at the same time ... in communication, and considering many forum participants have ESL, misunderstanding and miscommunication also accounts for a decent chunk of the discord.

BTW thanks for the intelligently written post. Those are beginning to become a rare thing on the internet

 

[JimboJoneson]

...
IMO, its unfortunate that AMD's previous leader had no technical knowledge.

Reminds me of another company's current situation ... Letting the financial guys run tech companies might not be the greatest idea ...

 

[JimboJoneson]

Thinking about this a bit more - that PC that I have problems with WinDOHs 10 updates is an A10-7850K APU. After installing one of those updates and rebooting (it does auto logon), I was left with a black screen and only a mouse cursor. I don't know that this is the black screen problem, but it sounds like it might be.
...

I was having issues with an Intel NUC and black screening after logoff issues that may have started after a certain Windows update ... hmmm. I just replaced it completely because I couldn't nail down where the problem was actually coming from.

Basically when a user logged off, the GPU seemed to just shut off and the NUC had to be cold booted. I tried blaming AMD drivers, but they would have none of it.

 

[wiyosaya]

I was having issues with an Intel NUC and black screening after logoff issues that may have started after a certain Windows update ... hmmm. I just replaced it completely because I couldn't nail down where the problem was actually coming from.

Basically when a user logged off, the GPU seemed to just shut off and the NUC had to be cold booted. I tried blaming AMD drivers, but they would have none of it.

I just did a bit of research on it. In my case, the GPU in the A10 part was still on as evidenced by the fact that the only thing visible was the mouse cursor - I could move it all I wanted and see the cursor follow the mouse movements. The problem was that nothing else was visible - no desktop, no task bar, nothing. It made no difference what I did to get the display to "wake up" (it looked like WinDOHs had put the display into a blank screen saver mode except for the mouse cursor). The one thing that I am sure of is that this happened with a WinDOHs update, and when I installed the next one (I am not entirely sure how long I waited) the issue was gone.

Somewhat OT - Speaking of problems with WinDOHs updates, I have a Xeon E5-1650v2 PC with a 980Ti in it. I cannot update to WinDOHs 1909 because at reboot of the update process, I get a system thread exception not handled error - and nothing, absolutely nothing gets written to the error logs. I have a couple of older GPUs (460, 580, 710) I am going to swap in when time permits to see if I can apply the update then.

 

[CharmsD]

I just did a bit of research on it. In my case, the GPU in the A10 part was still on as evidenced by the fact that the only thing visible was the mouse cursor - I could move it all I wanted and see the cursor follow the mouse movements. The problem was that nothing else was visible - no desktop, no task bar, nothing. It made no difference what I did to get the display to "wake up" (it looked like WinDOHs had put the display into a blank screen saver mode except for the mouse cursor). The one thing that I am sure of is that this happened with a WinDOHs update, and when I installed the next one (I am not entirely sure how long I waited) the issue was gone.

That was a known issue with preview releases, are you getting those?

Somewhat OT - Speaking of problems with WinDOHs updates, I have a Xeon E5-1650v2 PC with a 980Ti in it. I cannot update to WinDOHs 1909 because at reboot of the update process, I get a system thread exception not handled error - and nothing, absolutely nothing gets written to the error logs. I have a couple of older GPUs (460, 580, 710) I am going to swap in when time permits to see if I can apply the update then.

I've had the same problem this may work, scroll down to Windows 10 and click the + to expand the instructions. Go to the error log if you need to do anything manually.

 

[wiyosaya]

That was a known issue with preview releases, are you getting those?

I should not be - but I did change the group policy editor to not do automatic updates, and I recall something that I read that said that if you do change the update policy like that, you are automatically put on the preview release channel. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted that.

I've had the same problem this may work, scroll down to Windows 10 and click the + to expand the instructions. Go to the error log if you need to do anything manually.

Thanks! I will have to look at that.

Edit - I went through that process at TenForums https://www.tenforums.com/ The first time I ran it, I could not get it to finish; however, at some point it worked and completed those steps without error. Unfortunately, the system thread exception still happened. I've tried everything, AFAIK, suggested out there including updating all my drivers to the latest possible version and it still fails.

I don't totally buy the reinstallation bit. 1803 had no problems installing, and somehow 1909 does? No matter how I try to install 1909, either via download, or from a DVD made with their update tool and the ISO download, it still fails - every other system I own that I have updated to 1909 - an old i3 laptop, a Phenom X4 system, and even my A10-7850K HTPC all took the update without problems.

I have to wonder if I wait until the next major update whether the problem will magically disappear.

 

[CharmsD]

I should not be - but I did change the group policy editor to not do automatic updates, and I recall something that I read that said that if you do change the update policy like that, you are automatically put on the preview release channel. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted that.

I don't know, I don't use GPE anymore my Windows are managed by Microsoft so I don't touch the settings. The settings page here is the same as an 'online' account.

I start from the bottom up, go to 3 to check for updates. I think you can delete the stored files and make it download them again. I will check on that.

Thanks! I will have to look at that.

Edit - I went through that process at TenForums https://www.tenforums.com/ The first time I ran it, I could not get it to finish; however, at some point it worked and completed those steps without error. Unfortunately, the system thread exception still happened. I've tried everything, AFAIK, suggested out there including updating all my drivers to the latest possible version and it still fails.

It's not anything you're doing. Microsoft sent out scripts that didn't 'retry' when something bombed out. I had a laptop scrub the disk for 2 days until it finally burned out!

I don't totally buy the reinstallation bit. 1803 had no problems installing, and somehow 1909 does? No matter how I try to install 1909, either via download, or from a DVD made with their update tool and the ISO download, it still fails - every other system I own that I have updated to 1909 - an old i3 laptop, a Phenom X4 system, and even my A10-7850K HTPC all took the update without problems.

REinstall does work if you get rid of the downloaded files, it's been a while since I've done it & I just forgot how.

I have to wonder if I wait until the next major update whether the problem will magically disappear.

1803 and 1909 and 20H are not the same. Think of them as new versions instead of incremental dot releases, not necessarily compatible with the installation script, it makes errors.

 

[CharmsD]

I have to wonder if I wait until the next major update whether the problem will magically disappear.

The ON setting on that properties page is ON for /my/ computer, MS has privileges to run their updates.

 

[CharmsD]

1. Open File Explorer.
2. Go to C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download, and delete all contents.
3. Open CMD, and type in net stop wuauserv.
4. Now type in net start wuauserv.

@wiyosaya - this worked. I just entered it in the run box, the first one stops the service and exits, second one pauses a second while the service restarts.

Opened Powershell, here are the contents.

PS C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution> dir
Directory: C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution

Mode LastWriteTime Length Name
---- ------------- ------ ----
d----- 2/22/2020 3:04 AM DataStore
d----- 3/5/2020 11:40 AM Download
d----- 2/18/2020 11:01 PM PostRebootEventCache.V2
d----- 2/22/2020 4:53 AM SLS
-a---- 3/5/2020 5:05 AM 238310 ReportingEvents.log

 

[wiyosaya]

The ON setting on that properties page is ON for /my/ computer, MS has privileges to run their updates.

I have administrative access to all my computers, even my work computer, so I've changed the automatic update settings on all of them. I got fed up with the problems and sometimes spending hours resolving them. After I got my current PC at work, it was set to auto reboot even when I was logged on and doing things. Its rather had to get work done when your computer reboots on you without warning and without an option to defer as Windows 7 updates allowed.

It's not anything you're doing. Microsoft sent out scripts that didn't 'retry' when something bombed out. I had a laptop scrub the disk for 2 days until it finally burned out!

WinDOHs strikes again!

REinstall does work if you get rid of the downloaded files, it's been a while since I've done it & I just forgot how.

I was thinking of what it said on the MS page you linked. IMO, they mean a complete, from scratch, reinstall of the operating system which means reinstalling all apps and what not. Retrying the update is, for me, the preferred path.

I'll have to search to see if anyone using similar hardware, X79 chipset in particular, is having similar problems.

1803 and 1909 and 20H are not the same. Think of them as new versions instead of incremental dot releases, not necessarily compatible with the installation script, it makes errors.

As I see it, that's part of the problem.

1. Open File Explorer.
2. Go to C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download, and delete all contents.
3. Open CMD, and type in net stop wuauserv.
4. Now type in net start wuauserv.

@wiyosaya - this worked. I just entered it in the run box, the first one stops the service and exits, second one pauses a second while the service restarts.

Opened Powershell, here are the contents.

PS C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution> dir
Directory: C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution

Mode LastWriteTime Length Name
---- ------------- ------ ----
d----- 2/22/2020 3:04 AM DataStore
d----- 3/5/2020 11:40 AM Download
d----- 2/18/2020 11:01 PM PostRebootEventCache.V2
d----- 2/22/2020 4:53 AM SLS
-a---- 3/5/2020 5:05 AM 238310 ReportingEvents.log

Thanks. I'll probably try stopping/disabling the service, deleting the directory contents, then installing from the DVD I burned.

 

[wiyosaya]

@CharmsD Hmmm. Different day, different search results. This has to be the most comprehensive try at resolving this that I have seen. It incorporates part of your steps above and goes beyond that. I will have to try it out.

Issue with Windows 10 1909 update - System Service Exception when updating

Hello! I had disabled my windows updates since February 2019 and recently allowed the service to update, everything went great, except whenever windows update attempts to update to version 1909 -- I

answers.microsoft.com

IMO, it is highly unusual for answers.microsoft.com to provide something meaningful. Then again, the corollary to Murphy's law is "Every once in a while Murphy does something right."

Thank you for your input. You have inspired me to continue the quest for a perfect 1909 install.

EDIT: BTW - I do not recall seeing the Windows Insider Program banner on any of my Check for Updates screens. Then again, maybe I'm just not paying attention.

 

[Ravalo]

Im AMD user and I didnt suffer a single black screen.
I think its down to people not having a clue what they are doing that is the problem.
Im using latest driver over eyefinity and not seeing anything different.

https://imgur.com/kT4iGUv

The first time I noticed the black screen issue I thought my monitor was defective (Samsung Space SR75 144hz, very good monitor btw with barely any noticeable ghosting) since the game wouldn’t show until I tabbed out+tabbed back in

I have another issue (which might be a bit nitpicky but still) which is that I get artifacting every 2 seconds when in an in-game menu and not while in-game

 

[CharmsD]

I'll probably try stopping/disabling the service, deleting the directory contents, then installing from the DVD I burned.

Build 19557 is on the server if you dl Insider Previews on the Fast Ring. Here are the RELEASE NOTES, there's a problem with BattleEye.

Im AMD user and I didnt suffer a single black screen.
I think its down to people not having a clue what they are doing that is the problem.
Im using latest driver over eyefinity and not seeing anything different.

That's probably it!! Smart guys click on the install button whereas only total *****s who know nothing about any technical thing click on the install now button.

The first time I noticed the black screen issue I thought my monitor was defective (Samsung Space SR75 144hz, very good monitor btw with barely any noticeable ghosting) since the game wouldn’t show until I tabbed out+tabbed back in

I have another issue (which might be a bit nitpicky but still) which is that I get artifacting every 2 seconds when in an in-game menu and not while in-game

OIC, black screening, artifacting every 2 seconds in a lobby are not problems. Wait until the thing deadlocks the CPU, then it's a problem.