Lenovo bows out of CES due to Covid-19 concerns

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sreams

Posts: 283   +404
You are clearly out of your range here but I will make this simple.
Omicron has greatly reduced symptoms and severity. But its still COVID-19, which is a known killer. If we dont hold it off it will mutate again, and God knows what we will be looking at the next time.

We arent trying to stop the sniffles. We are trying to stop what may come next.

"It's COVID" is meaningless. The only thing that matters is how harmful it is.

If it mutates again (it will), it will almost assuredly do what other viruses do. They become less severe, which helps their survival. That has been the case with every strain of this virus so far.

COVID spreads like wildfire regardless of vaccination status. There is no level of vaccination coverage that will prevent mutation. It will be around forever, and it will continue to become weaker and weaker until we should be treating it like the common cold (another coronavirus that we cannot eliminate).
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,974
"It's COVID" is meaningless. The only thing that matters is how harmful it is.

If it mutates again (it will), it will almost assuredly do what other viruses do. They become less severe, which helps their survival. That has been the case with every strain of this virus so far.
Really? Delta was far more dangerous than the first few variants... and we still don't have enough data to come to a conclusion on Omicron one way or the other...
COVID spreads like wildfire regardless of vaccination status. There is no level of vaccination coverage that will prevent mutation. It will be around forever, and it will continue to become weaker and weaker until we should be treating it like the common cold (another coronavirus that we cannot eliminate).
There isn't nearly enough evidence to support that conclusion - and do we really want to bet our lives on it?
 

sreams

Posts: 283   +404
Since when? We don't know that for sure yet...

We do know that. The huge Israel study showed natural immunity to be far, far superior to vaccinated immunity. If you look more closely at the data, one of the primary reasons for this very large gap was missed by most of the headlines. The results were sourced from people 4+ months after their immunity-inducing event (vaccination or natural infection). That's when the effectiveness of the vaccines really starts to wane... but the same was not happening with those naturally immune. Their disease resistance was still very strong. Other studies have clearly shown that the trend with T-Cell and B-Cell immunity from natural infection is for it to likely last for about 5 years, as opposed to 4-6 months for vaccines. One of the explanations for this is the fact that our immune systems fight the virus as a whole (not just the spike protein), and that sets us up to be far better prepared the next time we encounter it, regardless of antibody levels (which are supposed to wane over time as part of a healthy immune response).

Really? Prove that it's harmless! What data do you have to support that?
Omicron, so far, has seemed less severe... but... that can easily be attributed to the fact that most nations being infected with it have populations that have either been previously infected with a different variant and/or are mostly vaccinated.

Omicron being less severe is scientific consensus at this point. It baffles me that there are people who seem to actually wish for that not to be the case. Do you honestly wish the virus not to weaken (as viruses naturally do) just so that you can be right?

This only proves that vaccines are working!

It proves that vaccine-induced immunity is indeed far less robust than natural immunity. You need a booster every six months. But somehow, unvaccinated people who rely solely on natural immunity aren't getting COVID every 6 months... and it's been two years now.

As for those saying "Covid is mostly harmless, so why should I be concerned"... please try to understand how a pandemic works. The disease might leave YOU unharmed (but there's no guarantee of that!), but you can pass it on to others - and those people might not be so fortunate.

That is true with or without the vaccine. Government bodies have all backed away from the claim that current vaccines stop or even significantly slow transmission, especially with current variants. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
 

sreams

Posts: 283   +404
Then maybe you should stop getting your data from comic books.
92% of all infections are not vaccinated. It's that simple.

You'll need to provide a source for that.

Do vaccines have potential to reduce disease severity? Absolutely. Are people with mild or no symptoms a lot less likely to get tested? Absolutely. Is COVID spreading like wildfire even in areas (like college campuses) with near 100% vaccination coverage? Absolutely.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,974
We do know that. The huge Israel study showed natural immunity to be far, far superior to vaccinated immunity. If you look more closely at the data, one of the primary reasons for this very large gap was missed by most of the headlines. The results were sourced from people 4+ months after their immunity-inducing event (vaccination or natural infection). That's when the effectiveness of the vaccines really starts to wane... but the same was not happening with those naturally immune. Their disease resistance was still very strong. Other studies have clearly shown that the trend with T-Cell and B-Cell immunity from natural infection is for it to likely last for about 5 years, as opposed to 4-6 months for vaccines. One of the explanations for this is the fact that our immune systems fight the virus as a whole (not just the spike protein), and that sets us up to be far better prepared the next time we encounter it, regardless of antibody levels (which are supposed to wane over time as part of a healthy immune response).
No we don't.... in fact, most studies show the opposite.

Not to mention that getting your immunity that way is far more dangerous...
Omicron being less severe is scientific consensus at this point. It baffles me that there are people who seem to actually wish for that not to be the case. Do you honestly wish the virus not to weaken (as viruses naturally do) just so that you can be right?
The only scientific consensus is that we need more data... Of course I don't WANT it to be worse... but just wanting something to be so (or not so) is NOT how we should be basing our lives!
It proves that vaccine-induced immunity is indeed far less robust than natural immunity. You need a booster every six months. But somehow, unvaccinated people who rely solely on natural immunity aren't getting COVID every 6 months... and it's been two years now.



That is true with or without the vaccine. Government bodies have all backed away from the claim that current vaccines stop or even significantly slow transmission, especially with current variants. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
What governments have done that?!?! We know that vaccines DO slow transmission - and more importantly, they reduce symptoms when infected tremendously.
 

sreams

Posts: 283   +404
And what's the percentage of people who are vaccinated? In Ireland, over 18 people double (or triple) vaccination % is over 80%... and over 90% have received at least 1 dose...

So OBVIOUSLY the majority of cases will be in those vaccinated... there simply aren't enough unvaccinated people to get the same amount infected... This is true in every country that has a high % of vaccination... it's simple math.

BUT... the data shows, in every country, that those who are vaccinated are FAR less likely to have serious symptoms, require hospitalization or die...

Hmmm.... maybe vaccination is a good idea?

Yes, it is simple math. And since everyone, including those under 18, can be infected, the percentage of the whole population (not just those over 18) that is vaccinated must be considered.

3/4 = 75%

Less than 80% of entire population vaccinated. I'll give you 75% (it is likely lower when including all age groups). That means we are looking at a 1/1 ratio. As in... the vaccine made no difference whatsoever in terms of likelihood of infection.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,974
Yes, it is simple math. And since everyone, including those under 18, can be infected, the percentage of the whole population (not just those over 18) that is vaccinated must be considered.

3/4 = 75%

Less than 80% of entire population vaccinated. I'll give you 75% (it is likely lower when including all age groups). That means we are looking at a 1/1 ratio. As in... the vaccine made no difference whatsoever in terms of likelihood of infection.
Try again...
 

sreams

Posts: 283   +404
Really? Delta was far more dangerous than the first few variants...

It was not more severe. It was far more contagious, but not quite as severe as previous variants. It did turn out to be more dangerous only because of how contagious it was. Omicron is following the same course, but is so much less severe that its being more contagious has been developing into pretty much a nothingburger (and maybe, ultimately, a good thing). South Africa saw the biggest spike in cases they've ever seen with Omicron. Only a few weeks later, that surge is now seeing a strong downward trend and coming to an end. And unlike with every previous variant, the country has seen *no* significant increase in deaths with this variant.

Switch between "New Cases" and "Deaths" with this chart:

 
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sreams

Posts: 283   +404
No we don't.... in fact, most studies show the opposite.

No, "most" studies do not show this. The CDC study is an outlier and has been found to be severely flawed:


Not to mention that getting your immunity that way is far more dangerous...

Only time will tell. None of the vaccine trials involved boosters every few months for years on end. We do not yet know how our immune systems will handle, in the long term, having our cells programmed over and over again to create more and more spike proteins.

The only scientific consensus is that we need more data... Of course I don't WANT it to be worse... but just wanting something to be so (or not so) is NOT how we should be basing our lives!

Here I agree with you... but do you not see that you are suggesting we all base our lives on a particular scenario? Isn't that the very thing you say we should not be doing?

What governments have done that?!?! We know that vaccines DO slow transmission - and more importantly, they reduce symptoms when infected tremendously.



One must also consider that what many studies may miss is the real-world implications of having vaccines reduce or even eliminate symptoms in the case of infection. People who are contagious but have very mild or no symptoms are far more likely to go out in public and to not get tested. And so they will be passed over in most studies, while simultaneously being more likely to spread the disease.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,390   +2,542
TechSpot Elite
"It's COVID" is meaningless. The only thing that matters is how harmful it is.

If it mutates again (it will), it will almost assuredly do what other viruses do. They become less severe, which helps their survival. That has been the case with every strain of this virus so far.

COVID spreads like wildfire regardless of vaccination status. There is no level of vaccination coverage that will prevent mutation. It will be around forever, and it will continue to become weaker and weaker until we should be treating it like the common cold (another coronavirus that we cannot eliminate).

"Sheahan pointed to several examples such as the Ebola virus, which was discovered in 2016 to have undergone a mutation that not only made it more transmissible but likely more infective. This variant eventually died when the epidemic ended in 2016. The West Nile virus was found in 1999 to have mutated into a highly virulent strain, killing crows on multiple continents."
 
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scavengerspc

Posts: 2,390   +2,542
TechSpot Elite
In Ireland, it was about 3 weeks ago when the officials told us that at this point 2/3 of all new cases were people who were fully vaccinated. Today, it is even more than that, about 3/4 of all cases include fully-vaccinated people. So there you have it, official data, not from comic books. The vaccine is quite useless, and while some of them do help, they all quickly lose their potency, and after 90 days they have zero effect.

You'll need to provide a source for that.

Yes. I was wrong because its not 92%. Its 94%


 

Fulljack

Posts: 69   +69
A good friend of mine had an allergic reaction or something to her first jab and she was in hospital for a week, she’s a 28 year old personal trainer at a gym so she really didn’t need to go through that ordeal as she’s extremely unlikely to be hospitalised with covid.

that's literally how a normal vaccination reactions, that your immune system response to the vaccine.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,390   +2,542
TechSpot Elite
Covid wiping humanity off the face of the earth would make mother earth very happy. Too bad it's far too weak a virus. Would be nice if it could mutate into something with the cojones to get the job done.

For you? Without a doubt. I'm sure we all have far too much to live for. I know I sure as hell do. But it is comforting to know that you will be the first to sign up. Please hurry.
 
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J spot

Posts: 239   +159
Because she doesn't get any coverage, Maddie de Garay. Her symptoms were listed in the Pfizer final report as a stomach ache. Imagine what other side effects were covered up. If it wasn't listed as a stomach ache, then it would have probably caused Pfizer tens of billions of dollars.



This thing is a pure money grab by evil people. For a virus whose average death age is greater than the average life expectancy. The Omicron variant is the mildest of the variant, yet Bill de Blasio is going to use it as a way to punish those who won't do what he says. If you don't get the vaccine, then your employer has to fire you and you cannot work anywhere else.

The average person is not aware that any negative talk about the vaccines is blocked. Whether on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. And even Google. So sometimes you have to use Duckduckgo. So you never get to hear the voices of the people who were injured by the vaccine. From myocarditis, to neurological events. And in the main these people are, for a lack of a better term, Democrats who were passionate about the vaccines.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,390   +2,542
TechSpot Elite
So you never get to hear the voices of the people who were injured by the vaccine.
But what you don't know is that agencies such as the CDC. JHU, and the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control, don't give a damn about the politics that the right invented. If what you say is true, there would be plenty of proof, considering the huge numbers claimed by folks such as yourself.

And in the main these people are, for a lack of a better term, Democrats who were passionate about the vaccines.
So if you aren't "passionate" about vaccines, then what are you passionate about? Almost 5 and a half million dead people?

America is the most pitiful by far, by the way. We have almost double the Covid deaths as India. A country with 4 times as many people in 1\3 the space.
Its almost laughable.
 
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