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Man tries to reduce e-waste but is facing prison time over dispute with Microsoft

By Greg S · 57 replies
Feb 20, 2018
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  1. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,919   +3,294

    And I agree completely Cliff. Because if the license was for you, then they would need to stick the COA to your forehead, instead of the computer case.
  2. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,919   +3,294

    With love, from Dell.com:

    B. Licensing Models. Software is licensed for use only in accordance with the commercial terms and restrictions of the Software’s relevant licensing model, which are stated in the Product Notice and/or quote from EMC or an EMC Channel Partner. For example, the licensing model may provide that Software is licensed for use solely (I) for a certain number of licensing units; (ii) on or in connection with a certain piece of equipment, CPU, network or other hardware environment; and/or (iii) for a specified amount of storage capacity. Microcode, firmware or operating system software required to enable the hardware with which it is shipped to perform its basic functions, is licensed for use solely on such hardware.

    C. Copying Permitted. Customer may copy the Software and Documentation as necessary to install and run the quantity of copies licensed, but otherwise for archival purposes only

    D. License Restrictions. Without EMC’s prior written consent, Customer must not, and must not allow any third party to: (I) use Software in an application service provider, service bureau, or similar capacity for third parties; or (ii) disclose to any third party the results of any benchmarking testing or comparative or competitive analyses of EMC’s Software done by or on behalf of Customer; (iii) make available Software in any form to anyone other than Customer’s employees or contractors reasonably acceptable to EMC and which require access to use Software on behalf of Customer in a matter permitted by this Agreement; (iv) transfer or sublicense Software or Documentation to an Affiliate or any third party; (v) use Software in conflict with the terms and restrictions of the Software’s licensing model and other requirements specified in the Product Notice and/or EMC quote; (vi) except to the extent permitted by applicable mandatory law, modify, translate, enhance, or create derivative works from the Software, or reverse assemble or disassemble, reverse engineer, decompile, or otherwise attempt to derive source code from the Software; (vii) remove any copyright or other proprietary notices on or in any copies of Software; or (viii) violate or circumvent any technological restrictions within the Software or specified in this Agreement, such as via software or services.
  3. Danny101

    Danny101 TS Guru Posts: 522   +200

    I hope you're successful in an amiable outcome. Recycling doesn't necessarily mean 'being used'.
  4. Forebode

    Forebode TS Booster Posts: 181   +40

    B. Licensing - The key, the license the COA is what they mean. The software being burned to a disc is for the computer that holds the license.

    C. Customer may copy. Computer was donated or disposed of. The receiver is now the owner, the customer as it were. The language should be changed to owner, because that's what it's implying. It's only being installed on a computer that holds a license, and is specifically being made for archival purposes. A backup is an archive.

    D. The customer isn't allowing a third party to do anything. Eric Lundgren is the customer/owner at the time of the disc creation.

    Imagine. you find a computer in the garbage. The hard drive is thrashed. You buy a new hard drive and go to dell and burn an OS disc. You save the disc for backup (archival). Then you sell it to someone. That's fine right?

    But he's bad because he's doing it with many computers..
    All three are to prevent piracy. They have a legal license, thus no piracy. The OS restore disc is essentially freeware as it can be downloaded for free by anonymous persons.

    It was a bad move sticking Copyrighted logos on it.
  5. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,919   +3,294

    A: Just because something is free ware, doesn't necessarily confer the right to a 3rd party to copy and distribute it.

    And arguably, since the software is not intended to be used on Mr. Lundgren's machine, he is indeed a 3rd party. Downloading something to your machine doesn't make you a "1st party".

    B: Dell does indeed offer FREE instructional support, at its site, to restore all of its (current? (at least to Windows 7)) machines for their rightful owners.

    Now, I don't care if this dude goes to jail forever, or walks scott free, I'm patently sick of listening to his bullsh!t.

    In the first place, downloading, printing, and distributing Dell's proprietary software, is a completely separate issue from "ewaste". To make that clearer for you, you can't predicate innocence from a copyright violation case, on manufacturers or US citizens creating too much ewaste". Or because the new CEO of M$ is a complete douche, or because your grandmother doesn't know how to run a DVD burner, or read a web page.

    To me, and it would seem M$, Dell, and the US government , think this guy is blowing up smoke, as do I. In fact, so does the federal district court and the federal prosecutor.

    If nothing else here, the story serves to prove, that no matter how noble one's intentions may be, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

    And for your further edification, simply because a person mentioned in TS's news, chooses post here, it is in no way incumbent on me to agree with that individual.

    If person "X" is undertaking these endeavors to "right the wrongs created by evil corporations" then that person should ask for a "trial by a jury of his peers", and try for a jury nullification sob story. But that is again predicated, on whether or not, a federal judge will even allow testimony to be given on those unrelated topics,.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  6. Forebode

    Forebode TS Booster Posts: 181   +40

    Few live up to their forum name, you've pegged it. And it's not a troll or whatever, you're making the topic interesting. Usually stuff like this falls short, no one cares, 99% people agree it's a silly argument due to all the ways you can get just the software of win 7 and up (when you already have a legal license).

    Did it say he was using the software on non-dell computers? If it was Dell and it had a license to the tower/laptop.. How is it unintended? If Mr. Lundgren has possession of a dell system with a win7 license, and owns the system before selling it. As a customer, he should be able to legally download from dell. And leave it with the tower.

    Now.. if he stuck it on a non dell computer, that's more of an argument against it, only if the link to the software states it must be put on a dell system.. If there were no warnings where you download the software.. nothing matters. Can't give something free to download with no legal statement of use and get cranky when it's used in a different way.

    Would it have been so bad if he bought the software. Kept a master disc(s) (for each os) installed it to the system. Then built a recovery boot with boot discs to recover the system to it's original prepatched state? It's not hard to do.

    captaincranky, What would you do if you had a recycling/re-purposing company. Other then the obvious of shredding/magetizing the hard drives and replacing them with inexpensive replacements. (as it would be worse to use hard drive with potentially recoverable data.) .. it's easy to complain and crap on what another person might have done incorrectly.. how would have you done it so that, in your eyes, would be legal?
  7. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,919   +3,294

    Up front, the issue of Dell computers, specifically laptops, has always been a hot button issue here at Techspot.

    It's also always bee an issue of legal ownership. Way back when, we had a member who helped other members get around the BIOS password. He was asked to "cease and desist", from that practice.And that was for a very simple reason. You can't tell whether a laptop has been stolen over the internet, and the site itself could conceivably be shown in the light of, "aiding and abetting", the theft of these machines. It's a given that someone has "been given", or, "found", or, "lost my password", when they ask for help with the rogue machine.

    Oddly enough, I just downloaded some "free software" from Samsung, to clone an HDD, to a new Samsung SSD. Lo and behold, there was a license agreement which I had to agree to, before they allowed the software to download. Now, in all honesty, I din't read the EULA, but I used it in a way commensurate with the conditions under which it was offered. Hence, my conscience is as clear as a bell.

    There's only a certain amount of effort I'm willing to expend in pursuit of "the truth" here, and only so many lies I'm willing to tell, to facilitate downloading Dell restore software. But it's very doubtful that some sort of EULA wouldn't be involved.

    You know as well as I, that even if you're dealing with freeware, the first page of the install sequence is a, "click me yes", to agree to the terms of the EULA.

    Look any repair shop worth its salt, most likely has restore discs in stock for any number of machines. And they are, "one disc fits all", with respect to all individual machines, of the same type, year, and model. So, they're probably breaking some terms of a EULA, in doing so. But, that's the extent to which a maker is likely willing to overlook the strict wording of said EULA.

    Now, if the same repair shop, printed hundreds of the same disc, offered them for sale, ostensibly to, "stick it up the manufacturers a**, for promoting planned obsolescence, and trashing up the environment with "ewaste", methinks the fed might be there "post haste", for if nothing else, to contain the hate speech, and serve a federal civil summons for slander.

    OK, I'm from the generation that protested the Vietnam war. But that was a countrywide, "movement", not some yin-yang Quixote, tilting at an enormous windmill in the form of M$ & Dell. BTW, there were people who went to jail for protests against the war in Vietnam, and some others who lost their lives in that struggle.

    A direct answer to your question would be I'd call a lawyer familiar with copyright and physical ownership issues, before I undertook rehabbing old machines.

    But, I personally believe the Windows license should be good for the life of the machine. Even with respect to an OEM copy of Windows, a failed HDD certainly doesn't end the life of the machine. A failed motherboard OTOH, does.

    Under those auspices, I should be able to gift or sell you an old machine, with little to no consequence. You do have to admit that under those terms, we would be "well under the radar", with legal jeopardy being almost nil.

    If I were to argue this issue, that's the only point I would consider actionable. It's sort of based on the old saw, "one man's trash, is another man's treasure".

    Now, Mr.Lundgren can piss and moan all he wants about "saving the world from ewaste", but the reality of that is, electronics equipment owners hunger for planned obsolescence. They can't wait to see how much louder, faster, shinier, and more desirable, next years model is than the one they own now.. Quite frankly, the customer is his own worst enemy, and the biggest threat to the environment. If they didn't throw machines away, we wouldn't have the volume of waste we have now. The American consumer is the exact moral opposite of the Boy Scout oath.

    All of this corporate greed isn't aimed at "poor little old ladies who can't fix their own computers". It's to sate the lust in mainstream America's heart, for bigger, more status conferring material wealth across all demographics.

    So, mister Lundgren isn't saving the world from Dell or any other commercial entity, he's trying to save us from ourselves, and I don't quite recall asking for his help, do you?

    And that's why, I believe, and will continue to believe, all these bullsh!t proclamations Mr. Lundgren has made as to his purpose, are worthless, invalid, smokescreens.

    I will restate something I mentioned earlier, (in this thread, not sure), that when Phila Community College sold their old computers, Windows was removed. Ostensibly, because the licenses were of a volume educational nature, registered to the school itself. What, if any bearing that has on this issue, I don't know.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  8. Forebode

    Forebode TS Booster Posts: 181   +40

    Not arguing the recycling nature of what Mr. Lundgren is doing. It's about profit. Is it worth more to sell it, than to get it processed and separated for metals. It seems simple enough to ask Linux distributions, permissions to use their OS in his reclaimed systems.

    The College computers, if purchased without a preinstallation of windows, would be counted as OS less. Would be board be coded for an OS if you never had one to begin with?

    Dell Bios Password. All bios password recovery follow a similar problem with helping people. By default there's no password for the bios. I was told the same at one of my early tech jobs.

    If you download an ISO, there wont be a popup before you burn it to an disc/usb. Samsungs software is pretty nice, it wont work if you don't have a samsung destination drive. Some wont even run if there's not one present.

    I wonder whats heavier... each year.. disposed cellphones or disposed of towers. Surely the towers and laptops are more compatible with getting stripped down and recycled (real recycling not resell).

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