Microsoft issues warning on China's use of generative AI to disrupt US elections
- Thread starter midian182
- Start date
- Status
kiwigraeme
Posts: 2,000 +1,410
China just wants to raise hate in The USA, it uses same memes in different ways to trigger both sides.
Even has bots in comments agreeing with Dems and GOP.
China just wants an ineffective USA with lots of internal hate.
Weird thing is even say when people find out that it was false, they don't care. Oh it's probably truth and must be based on something.
Look at Faux news BS about transgender day , it's always been on same day
Same as outrage no religious symbology in white house eater egg hunt. That rule has been in place since forevah.
But those getting their daily dose of fear and outrage don't care. They don't care images are obviously fake. weird hands etc
Even has bots in comments agreeing with Dems and GOP.
China just wants an ineffective USA with lots of internal hate.
Weird thing is even say when people find out that it was false, they don't care. Oh it's probably truth and must be based on something.
Look at Faux news BS about transgender day , it's always been on same day
Same as outrage no religious symbology in white house eater egg hunt. That rule has been in place since forevah.
But those getting their daily dose of fear and outrage don't care. They don't care images are obviously fake. weird hands etc
Endymio
Posts: 2,679 +2,707
Is that why Joe Biden -- who was working for a Chinese-funded think tank while running for the Presidency -- dropped Trump's sanctions on Russia, gave Putin back his gas pipeline to Europe, then went on live TV and green-lighted a 'minor incursion' by Russia into Ukraine?
WhoCaresAnymore
Posts: 776 +1,224
China and Russia want Biden (A weak leader). It's a no brainer for them.
And, the US is absolutely just as guilty with interference of other countries.
And, the US is absolutely just as guilty with interference of other countries.
GodisanAtheist
Posts: 235 +330
-Please source any of this. I am legitimately interested.
Ideally not "Uncle Nutjob's Myspace Page" links.
Endymio
Posts: 2,679 +2,707
BBC: "Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline....The US also lifted sanctions on the executive - an ally of Russia's Vladimir Putin - who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project. Critics say the pipeline is a major geopolitical prize for the Kremlin...."
Nord Stream 2: Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline
The US also waives sanctions on a Putin ally who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project.
www.bbc.com
LA Times: "Biden’s ‘minor incursion’ comment roils diplomatic efforts to halt Russian invasion of Ukraine...Officials in Kyiv reacted angrily to Biden’s comments at a news conference Wednesday in which he appeared to wobble on backing Ukraine if it were attacked by its larger neighbor. An array of U.S. lawmakers and world leaders also expressed dismay at Biden’s comments, with some saying the president appeared to offer his Russian counterpart a green light to launch a limited invasion...."
Biden's 'minor incursion' comment roils diplomatic efforts to halt Russian invasion of Ukraine
Whether president misspoke or reflected European unease, the White House rushed to contain the damage. Ukraine reacts furiously.
www.latimes.com
There are plenty of people, myself included, who have travelled in China and life isn't as bad as the media portray. And it's clear that you already make your own opinion about a country without even setting a foot here. Talk about propaganda.
Knot Schure
Posts: 431 +206
Hi, working in China since the late 90s - there is LOADS wrong / bad in China, so I'm not sure where you were visting.
At the start they couldn't even get passports.
And when they want free / fair elections, people get disappeared or run over with tanks.
Do we have the same?
I think not.
GodisanAtheist
Posts: 235 +330
BBC: "Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline....The US also lifted sanctions on the executive - an ally of Russia's Vladimir Putin - who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project. Critics say the pipeline is a major geopolitical prize for the Kremlin...."
Nord Stream 2: Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline
The US also waives sanctions on a Putin ally who leads the firm behind the Nord Stream 2 project.
LA Times: "Biden’s ‘minor incursion’ comment roils diplomatic efforts to halt Russian invasion of Ukraine...Officials in Kyiv reacted angrily to Biden’s comments at a news conference Wednesday in which he appeared to wobble on backing Ukraine if it were attacked by its larger neighbor. An array of U.S. lawmakers and world leaders also expressed dismay at Biden’s comments, with some saying the president appeared to offer his Russian counterpart a green light to launch a limited invasion...."
Biden's 'minor incursion' comment roils diplomatic efforts to halt Russian invasion of Ukraine
Whether president misspoke or reflected European unease, the White House rushed to contain the damage. Ukraine reacts furiously.
-Ah, thank you for sharing that. Looks like both of those positions were pre Russian invasion of Ukraine while the US was trying to rebuild strained relations to Germany/EU/NATO and provide an offramp to Russia from using military force.
Now Nordstream 1 and parts of Nordstream 2 have been completely destroyed, both pipelines are offline, and the EU has sourced tons of LNG from The US and other places. Has helped them find their balls too when facing Russia.
Biden has been a staunch supporter of Ukraine and the US has, with a fraction of our annual defense spending and with weapons from the early 90's helped Ukraine effectively repel the Russian invasion from west of Donetsk and Luhansk and force Russia from a 3 day decapitation strike war into a 2 year grind east of the Dnipero river.
Looks like we now have Republicans in Congress doing an about face, refusing to bring military aid spending to a vote and Donald Trump saying he'll just let Russia invade Article 5 countries who don't meet NATO spending targets (and presumably allow Russia to conquer Ukraine without US aid as well)...
So weird we had McCain and Romney Republicans who were telling us for years that Russia was going to be an issue, they're proven partially right in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea, and fast forward to today and the Republican Nominee is straight saying "pay us or we'll let you get conquered by Russia".
How times change.
Endymio
Posts: 2,679 +2,707
And yet the world price of both NG and oil are much higher today than before the war, putting hundreds of billions of dollars into Russian coffers. This helps explain why, despite so-called "crippling sanctions", Russia's GDP grew 3.6% last year -- faster than the US, even.
How is saying the US wouldn't respond to a minor incursion being a "staunch supporter"? And in fact the US did *not* respond to Russia's initial entry into Ukraine. It wasn't until Russia marched directly on Kiev that Biden reacted.
That is misinformation. We're sending Ukraine our latest HIMARS, M1-Abrams MBTs, Pac-3 batteries, Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost drones & Vampire anti-UAVs, Firefinder radars, etc, etc, etc. We've sent them twelve NASAM-3 SAM systems -- the same one currently being used to guard the White House from attack. And all US munition lines are working double-overtime to supply Ukraine. We're not sending them "30 year old stuff".
All of which could have been avoided entirely, had Joe Biden not effectively instigated the war. Groups like Cato were predicting a full year before invasion that Biden's policies would lead to all out war with Russia. They were right.
Actually, what he said was quite different. NATO is a treaty, which requires its members to pay for their own defense. Providing for your own defense is not "paying us". And if a nation continually and perpetually refuses to meet treaty requirements to defend themselves, then the treaty is invalid.
Last edited:
GodisanAtheist
Posts: 235 +330
Ok, point by point:
-Naturally any sort of fossile fuel derivative is more expensive now, with easy access to world markets cut off for Russia, the remaining supply is going to get pricier, which is going to make what Russia sells to unaligned countries worth more. Market forces are more powerful than any sanctioning power. Russian GDP growing from a severe dip isn't exactly a surprise, they're back to 2013 levels of GDP and still behind countries like India and barely ahead of countries like Brazil. They were going to figure out workarounds eventually.
- The US didn't respond to Russia's "minor incursion" into Georgia in 2008 either. Generally nuclear powers aren't going to resort to fisticuffs over little stuff. But when Ukraine demonstrated that it was actually capable of holding its own, the administration definitely got behind it in a big way.
-Hmmm, so Biden isn't a staunch supporter of Ukraine but they're getting out cutting edge weapons systems? Everyone thought the Russian war machine was going to roll Ukraine like the US did Iraq twice, that it would be a week to take the capital and a month to take the country. I doubt many anticipated the level of doctrinal and organizational decay in the Russian armed forces as we've seen. As Ukraine as demonstrated competency, they have gotten more and more of the nice stuff, but the bulk of munitions we have sent them are things like 155mm artillery shells and Bradley fighting vehicles (which are doing a weirdly good job of handling Russian battle tanks).
-Ok not sure how Biden "instigated" the war, but there is no way Russia wanted this to drag out for 2 years and effectively have the same amount of territory they started with, going hat in hand to China and North Korea for aide, massive material and manpower losses, at the cost of 1/10th of one year of US annual defense spending, no US boots on the ground, Sweden and Finland ascended to NATO, and a large number of Black Sea Fleet ships destroyed. If Biden instigated this, then well done Biden.
-NATO member states have not paid 2% GDP for most of NATO's existence. 2024 will be the first year in NATO's existence that the member states collectively "pay their fair share". NATO has always been about one key thing: making sure we do not have another massive European war by preventing European nations control over their own militaries and making them dependent on the shield the US provides. Spending on their part largely means buying US weapons platforms and munitions.
However if the US continues to distance itself, we might begin to see a militarily independent EU, and if the world should have learned anything by now, Europeans with large standing armies are bad business for everyone.
Endymio
Posts: 2,679 +2,707
That's because you only became aware of the situation as the war was breaking, not following the events as they built over several years. The Biden Administration had been treating Ukraine as a NATO member in all but name, going so far as to write a NATO MAP (membership plan) for Ukraine, and holding NATO "training exercises" inside Ukraine, only a few miles from the Russian border. As Russia became increasingly vocal in its demands that no NATO bases be placed in Ukraine, Biden refused multiple requests to discuss the issue, repeatedly stating that Ukraine's path to NATO wasn't "subject to negotiation".
Thus emboldened, Zelensky abrogated the Minsk II Accords, wrote into Ukraine's official defense policy statement (in May 2021) a goal of attacking Russia directly and re-acquiring Crimea, and doubled down on the policy of denying all fresh water to the civilians in Crimea (forcing Russia to engage in a massive campaign of transporting fresh water by sea to Sevastopol.) Zelensky even began stating that Ukraine might seek to re-acquire nuclear weapons itself. (I'll note the irony that this statement, when made by Iraq, was used as justification for the US to invade and kill some 600,000 Iraqi civilians). After this, Russia sent a written proposal to NATO asking for assurances that each side treat each other not as enemies, and assuring peace if NATO did not attempt to expand further eastward. NATO refused the proposal.
Still, there was no invasion and no war. However, when Biden sent Kamala Harris to the Munich Security Conference to publicly tell the world that NATO membership was "in Ukraine's own hands" -- Russia invaded one week later.
All this leaves out Ukraine's policy of relentlessly targeting ethnic Russian civilians in their decade-long civil war in Donbas, a policy which had been condemned by the UN, the EU, and even once by the US Congress.
Wrong on both counts.
"...2023 military spending still showed that only 11 member states had met the 2% goal while 18 still fell short – including France, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Italy, Canada, Türkiye and Spain. "
Furthermore, if one ignores outliers like Iceland (which lacks a military entirely), NATO members from 1949 to the 1970s not only met their commitment, but spent much more. France in 1960 was spending 6.19% of GDP on defense -- more than three times the required amount. Norway spent 3.03% in 1970 while Portugal spent 5.38% that same year. It wasn't until the mid 1980s that NATO members began shirking their treaty responsibilities.
Lived there 5 years? Wow your argument goes up in flames... seems you fear saying something negative.. which if you traveled there you know is s very real fear..
GodisanAtheist
Posts: 235 +330
-That was a lot of words to not say Russia annexed a large portion of Ukrainian territory and then funded a guerilla war in Luhansk and Donbas. Maybe Biden should have annexed the rest of Ukraine since that whole wall of text conveniently leaves that portion out and annexation apparently did not instigate anything.
-I said collectively spent 2% of GDP, and they did:
In 2023 the members in Europe collectively invested a “total of $470 billion in defense, amounting to 2 [percent] of their combined GDP for the first time,” the report says.
NATO lauds 'unprecedented' jump in defense spending, new members and public popularity - Breaking Defense
Poland, in particular, led the way in defense expenditure in 2023, using nearly 4 percent of its GDP on an arms spending spree, according to the alliance's annual report.
breakingdefense.com
Biden doing what Trump could not (Instigating the war to boost European defense spending was 5d chess on his part)
Endymio
Posts: 2,679 +2,707
Crimea first voted to secede from Ukraine in 1991, the same year that Ukraine voted to separate from Russia. You can't support self-determination in one case and not the other. Crimea also voted to secede in 1994 and 1996; each time Ukraine gave it the finger. The situation came to a head when ultranationalists overthrew the government in Kiev in 2014, and instantly began repressing their ethnic Russian minority population. Kiev went so far as to bar those citizens from holding government positions and even from speaking their own language. Do you think the US could bar Hispanics from speaking Spanish and African-Americans from running for office or holding government jobs, without repercussions? There's a reason Ukraine's been embroiled in civil war the past decade.
You're retreating to the word "collectively". That doesn't change my argument, it reinforces it. The US continues to make up the shortfall from members failing to meet their treaty obligations.
LOL, first you claim Biden didn't instigate the war -- now you say he's "playing 5D chess" by starting it?Biden doing what Trump could not (Instigating the war to boost European defense spending was 5d chess on his part)
Last edited:
GodisanAtheist
Posts: 235 +330
- The problem with drawing bylines through history is that everything is connected, and picking arbitrary starting points of "instigation" is somewhat meaningless. Did Britain put a man on the moon because King George III taxed the balls off of American Colonists? Or maybe the various instigators of the Seven Years War that caused the British to levy taxes on the colonies should take credit?
The Post War order has primarily held that national lines are static, what happens within a country stays within a country (and for third world countries that meant a lot of meddling from the USA and USSR). When National boundaries tried to change during the Cold War, it was met with military force (Korea & Vietnam & East Pakistan etc etc etc).
The Russians were not terribly kind to the Ukrainians during the Holodomor, the Ukrainians were not kind to ethnic Russians after the fall of the USSR, and so on and so on and so on backwards and forwards through time. Can't just go around annexing territory because people aren't nice to each other, but there are a lot of other things you can do about it.
- And you chose to ignore the word "collectively". The US is actually behind Poland in GDP spending in NATO, but thanks to our massive economy we're going to be the lion's share of NATO defense spending even if everyone get's to 2%.
- First you try to play off Biden as some Russian/Chinese agent
Is that why Joe Biden -- who was working for a Chinese-funded think tank while running for the Presidency -- dropped Trump's sanctions on Russia, gave Putin back his gas pipeline to Europe, then went on live TV and green-lighted a 'minor incursion' by Russia into Ukraine?
Who you say was also not a staunch supporter of Ukraine but then you also say he actually instigated the war which has reaped dividends for the US/Western Bloc:
- Two new NATO Members,
- rising NATO defense spending ( 2% target met as a collective with the US actually being in the second position when discussing GDP),
- our major geopolitical rival of the last 80 years getting stuck in a quagmire
- and thanks to said quagmire is unable to fulfill defense agreements with other nations getting them to shop western hardware (https://www.reuters.com/world/india...because-war-indian-air-force-says-2023-03-23/ *AND* https://www.reuters.com/world/india...sian-arms-will-retain-strong-ties-2024-01-28/)
I mean, I honestly wasn't terribly warm on Biden's international game and made the 5D comment in jest but debating you has actually got me wondering if maybe this is some sort of international real politik jujitsu on Biden's part given Russia's almost complete strategic failure across multiple fronts.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
