Microsoft will stop selling Windows 10 licenses this month

This is a load of bull. Most computers at my job use systems that are not compatible with windows 11, and they have powerful 8 core parts, 9900k (built in 2019), that don't need upgrading in the near future.
My gaming pc combined with an rtx card is in the same boat.
It's ridiculous to give up on windows 10 while there are so many perfectly capable systems that can go on for years,but are not eligible to upgrade
It is probably related to that TPM feature which Win 11 requires/required on your PC while installing it. IDK what changed since I read about it. There is a workaround too. I used it to try win 11 on my laptop.
 
Windows 10 is bad and full of Keyloggers.
Windows 11 is even worse.. with twice as many data mining methods.

Win7 was the best OS ever created. But data-stealing capitalism won out.
 
That's probably true for PC gamers where the incremental performance improvements may be needed, but I think it's a lot less true for the much wider world of regular use. The most common home and workplace requirements go little beyond web browsing, file storage, maybe Microsoft Office, etc. and six year old machines are still 100% capable for these missions and from a hardware perspective may continue to be so for many, many years to come.
Most medium and larger businesses have asset life cycles, I know of none that are 6+ years unless they're servers. The SME market is a bit different, I every so often come across something older than 6 years but rarely. The "most common" home requirements you're right though. Home PC's that are just for web browsing and word documents tend to last more than 10 years. As I said, just keep using Windows 10, why would you be buying a new license when you already have one?
This is a load of bull. Most computers at my job use systems that are not compatible with windows 11, and they have powerful 8 core parts, 9900k (built in 2019)
Sorry, are you trying to insinuate your 9900k isn't compatible with Windows 11?
It's ridiculous to give up on windows 10 while there are so many perfectly capable systems that can go on for years,but are not eligible to upgrade
Ok cool, keep going with Windows 10 then? As I said in my post, I promote staying with Windows 10 and moving to Windows 11 when you do get around to replacing your hardware.

This article is about Microsoft ending license purchases on their web store. You already own Windows 10 licenses so I'm unsure what you're so angry about.
It is probably related to that TPM feature which Win 11 requires/required on your PC while installing it. IDK what changed since I read about it. There is a workaround too. I used it to try win 11 on my laptop.
8th gen Intel CPU's and onwards have TPM built into the CPU. Hence why Windows 11 support 8th gen and onwards.

All the workarounds you see out there are for 7th gen and before. You can add a separate TPM module to most motherboards but I personally wouldn't bother. I'd just keep using Windows 10 until the day you decide to change the hardware.
Windows 10 is bad and full of Keyloggers.
Windows 11 is even worse.. with twice as many data mining methods.

Win7 was the best OS ever created. But data-stealing capitalism won out.
I hate to break it to you but, Windows 7 had a load of telemetry data gathering as well. The last version of Windows that actually disabled telemetry when asked was Windows XP. Vista onwards it's been full of it.
 
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Most medium and larger businesses have asset life cycles, I know of none that are 6+ years
Yes, and that's historically made sense in past decades. But it no longer makes sense now. Given both the much higher level of power on an absolute basis vs. the work needed to be done; and the much slower growth on a relative basis; the useful life of a general purpose office computer is changing. I would argue we are already at the point where it makes no more sense to cycle standard office computers every 6 years than it does to cycle roofing or plumbing that fast. Recent computers are fundamentally a different asset than last generations.

You already own Windows 10 licenses so I'm unsure what you're so angry about
I think some of our comments are about the overall end of life of Windows 10, of which this is just the first step. I agree that for many practical purposes the discontinuation of brand new licenses is not likely to be an issue. What has me very angry is the upcoming discontinuation of security patches, which IMO will produce one of two results for each device, both very bad for the world: either a perfectly good computer will be thrown away, or a formerly perfectly good computer will continue to be operated, but quickly be exploited. I hope various forms of pressure convince Microsoft to reconsider this plan - if they don't, personally I think they should be held legal liable for the entirely predicable results of their decision to stop fixing their bugs that they shipped.
 
I would absolutely switch to Windows 11 from 10 if the product offered any form of benchmark results that are compelling to do so, or say a new feature that I can't live without. Even though it's a free upgrade, Microsoft forgot to provide incentive to do so. The only thing I've heard that I would be interested in is Direct Storage technology, but this wasn't available at release. It's like buying an early access game in Steam that promises there will be a version 1.0 someday. I put it on the back burner and lose interest over time.

But but directstorage!
 
This is a load of bull. Most computers at my job use systems that are not compatible with windows 11, and they have powerful 8 core parts, 9900k (built in 2019), that don't need upgrading in the near future.
My gaming pc combined with an rtx card is in the same boat.
It's ridiculous to give up on windows 10 while there are so many perfectly capable systems that can go on for years,but are not eligible to upgrade

I have a 6 year old PC that is updated to Ryzen 3700X, Nvidia 2080 super, 32GB RAM, 3 SSD's and is still very fast. It has TPM 2 chip but M$ says it's not compatible. If I install 11 on this PC it will be a hacked version that disables TPM check.
 
Yes, and that's historically made sense in past decades. But it no longer makes sense now. Given both the much higher level of power on an absolute basis vs. the work needed to be done; and the much slower growth on a relative basis; the useful life of a general purpose office computer is changing. I would argue we are already at the point where it makes no more sense to cycle standard office computers every 6 years than it does to cycle roofing or plumbing that fast. Recent computers are fundamentally a different asset than last generations.
It's not about performance though. Let's use your examples, If the roof leaks, you can get it fixed and it's cost the business whatever price it was to fix, Same with the plumbing. Overall, issues with either hasn't massively affected the business such as stopping the business altogether or massively hampering it's operation. I know this depends on the business, fixing a warehouse roof is probably much more expensive than an office building roof.

Now if someones computer breaks, they cannot work. If the computer gets a virus, that can potentially shut down the business for a substantial amount of time. Both of these examples hurt your normal office business ten times more than a leaky roof or plumbing.

In today's world, quite a lot of people have taken to a hybrid approach to work, some days in the office, some at home, broken drains in the office? Just work from home.

Anyway my point is, keeping hardware in warranty and support can be more important than trying to stretch the life of hardware, when you consider a good laptop is around £1000 these days, if someone can't work for a few days because their laptop died and a new one had to be ordered, you probably lost more money on employee wages and loss of productivity than the laptop cost.
I have a 6 year old PC that is updated to Ryzen 3700X, Nvidia 2080 super, 32GB RAM, 3 SSD's and is still very fast. It has TPM 2 chip but M$ says it's not compatible. If I install 11 on this PC it will be a hacked version that disables TPM check.
Your CPU is literally on the compatibility list:
 
I don't think it's as bad as you think, Intel 8th gen onwards is fully supported, so pretty much all machines built from 2018 onwards. It's 2023, if you're machine is more than 5-6 years old, chances are you'll be replacing it in the next couple of years anyway.

I’m on ryzen 5000 and can’t upgrade due to being on B450. So yea even people with recent enough hardware can still be locked out. Which is why my issue really is what will this do to used pc’s? Maybe I buy a used motherboard and cpu, but the original owner continues to use the storage device in the next system. A person that does that might have a 16 core last gen part performing 80% as Well as the current crème de la crème, and not be capable of buying an official version of windows for it. That’s just silly. It’s not so bad as long as unofficial venues continue to flourish…. But I mean I don’t think Microsoft wants Cdkeys.ru or whatever to exist, so why push people in that direction lol.
 
I’m on ryzen 5000 and can’t upgrade due to being on B450. So yea even people with recent enough hardware can still be locked out.
Just checked, the B450 is on the compatibility list, the Asus motherboard I built for a customer back then shows Windows 11 drivers on their website.

Do you mean your particular Motherboard Manufacturer hasn't released drivers? Or do they even need to? Couldn't you just install the AMD chipset drivers from AMD's website? Which Do exist for the B450 so it's not Microsoft, nor AMD stopping you from going to Windows 11.

Based on the amount of comments here of people thinking their machines aren't compatible but actually, they are. Makes me wonder if Microsoft needs to do an exercise of advertising Windows 11 running on older hardware. Try and get the message out there that most computers can actually run Windows 11 just fine and the media reported on the TPM requirements excessively.
Which is why my issue really is what will this do to used pc’s? Maybe I buy a used motherboard and cpu, but the original owner continues to use the storage device in the next system. A person that does that might have a 16 core last gen part performing 80% as Well as the current crème de la crème, and not be capable of buying an official version of windows for it. That’s just silly. It’s not so bad as long as unofficial venues continue to flourish…. But I mean I don’t think Microsoft wants Cdkeys.ru or whatever to exist, so why push people in that direction lol.
Before Intel's 8th gen, there was no mainstream 8 core part, let alone 16 cores. The best they had was the 8700K which is 6 cores in the 8th gen.

Your last gen part would have to be specifically 7th gen Intel or the very original Ryzen's Which lets be honest, why would you pick them second hand?
The intel 7th gen was essentially the same quad core since the 2600k (2011).
You wouldn't bother with anything older than Ryzen with AMD and their first gen products are going for the same price, or weirdly more expensive than the 2000 parts even though the 2000 parts are hugely better products.

The second hand argument doesn't fly with me I'm afraid, If you are buying Intel 7th gen or first gen Ryzen (or older) then you'll be limited to Windows 10 but why you'd even buy them when you can get far superior 8th gen Intel and 2nd gen Ryzen for the same money is beyond me.
 
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This is a load of bull. Most computers at my job use systems that are not compatible with windows 11, and they have powerful 8 core parts, 9900k (built in 2019), that don't need upgrading in the near future.
My gaming pc combined with an rtx card is in the same boat.
It's ridiculous to give up on windows 10 while there are so many perfectly capable systems that can go on for years,but are not eligible to upgrade
9th Gen works. I have a 9700K with win 11 working. Your company, IT guys didn't or don't know they need to turn on tpm is the bios. Once done, should be right as rain.

They didn't give up on 10 just moved on to another. Same thing happened with Vista to 7, 8 to 10. Nothing wrong with 10 but MS is moving on. Sure people won't like it just as ppl didn't want to move on from XP or 7.
 
Based on the amount of comments here of people thinking their machines aren't compatible but actually, they are. Makes me wonder if Microsoft needs to do an exercise of advertising Windows 11 running on older hardware.

Yes indeed, these posts are full of misinformation

Official Windows 11 Requirements >
TPM 2.0
UEFI - Secure Boot Capable Firmware
EFI Boot Partition
64GB Minimum partition size
Supported CPU
Internet Connection
Microsoft Account
------------------------

ACTUAL Windows 11 requirements>

TPM's are not required

Oldschool BIOS is fine for Windows 11 / UEFI is not required

Windows 11 runs fine on an MBR partition / EFI Boot partition is not required

Windows 11 runs fine on partitions smaller than 64GB but you will run into problems with anything under 22GB (32GB is fine)

Supported CPU's: 2nd Gen Sandy Bridge or newer is require for driver support
Any Intel CPU's older than Sandy Bridge do not have driver support in Windows 11

An Internet connection is not required for Windows 11 Installs

A Microsoft account is also not required
----------------------------------------------------
Microsoft also killed support for Windows 2 Go on Windows 10 and later OS versions, but Windows 2 Go works fine with Windows 10 and 11 and I use both versions for test systems

I
 
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They didn't give up on 10 just moved on to another. Same thing happened with Vista to 7, 8 to 10. Nothing wrong with 10 but MS is moving on. Sure people won't like it just as ppl didn't want to move on from XP or 7.
What's new and different is that Microsoft is planning to cut off (tens? hundreds?) of millions of otherwise viable computers by neither allowing them to continue receiving security patches on Windows 10, nor allowing them to (officially, with patch support) install Windows 11.

This is unheard of in recent times for Microsoft. For example I believe 100% of nearly so of machines that ran Windows 7 could also run Windows 8 and Windows 10.

It would be one thing if users could see why their older computer was no longer useful, or if there was a killer feature in Win 11 that clearly required the newer hardware. But from the perspective of a large segment of users, being cutoff from Win 11 is 100% artificial and dangerous BS designed only to sell unneeded and unwanted additional hardware.
 
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So, I'm reaching out to my fellow TECHSPOT members for advice.

Is Windows 11 still worse than 10 now that it has been out for well over a year?

- I've read the HDR support (while using the OS itself) no longer looks washed out.
- Faster gaming?
- Direct storage?

Anyone with first-hand knowledge, please fill me in. It's a no-cost upgrade from 10, so I'm curious to know if it's finally time to make the switch. My system reminds me constantly that it's ready for the "upgrade". I will say, I really like 10 and see no reason to move everything around. But support will end sooner than later.

Thanks!
 
So, I'm reaching out to my fellow TECHSPOT members for advice.

Is Windows 11 still worse than 10 now that it has been out for well over a year?

- I've read the HDR support (while using the OS itself) no longer looks washed out.
- Faster gaming?
- Direct storage?

Anyone with first-hand knowledge, please fill me in. It's a no-cost upgrade from 10, so I'm curious to know if it's finally time to make the switch. My system reminds me constantly that it's ready for the "upgrade". I will say, I really like 10 and see no reason to move everything around. But support will end sooner than later.

Thanks!
-HDR support is still pretty meh
-LOLno. Windows 11 still has more resource usage then 10 and is still slower unless you go and disable all of MS's garbage
-Currently useless, and lets be frank, much like every version of direct X ever it will take YEARS before it is widespread in game engines, let alone games themselves.
Yes indeed, these posts are full of misinformation

Official Windows 11 Requirements >
TPM 2.0
UEFI - Secure Boot Capable Firmware
EFI Boot Partition
64GB Minimum partition size
Supported CPU
Internet Connection
Microsoft Account
------------------------

ACTUAL Windows 11 requirements>

TPM's are not required

Oldschool BIOS is fine for Windows 11 / UEFI is not required

Windows 11 runs fine on an MBR partition / EFI Boot partition is not required

Windows 11 runs fine on partitions smaller than 64GB but you will run into problems with anything under 22GB (32GB is fine)

Supported CPU's: 2nd Gen Sandy Bridge or newer is require for driver support
Any Intel CPU's older than Sandy Bridge do not have driver support in Windows 11

An Internet connection is not required for Windows 11 Installs

A Microsoft account is also not required
----------------------------------------------------
Microsoft also killed support for Windows 2 Go on Windows 10 and later OS versions, but Windows 2 Go works fine with Windows 10 and 11 and I use both versions for test systems

I
Every single thing you listed as an "ACTUAL REQUIREMENT" is either the result of tweaking windows with various work arounds or disabling certain checks. NONE of this is guaranteed to continue and may/will pose issues with receiving updates in the future.

Much like running 7 on ryzen 3000+, just because you can do it doesnt mean it is supported or will work right. Especially with MS, they've already shown a willingness to cut off PCs that do not meet their random requirements. Guarantee you within a year of 10 going out of support MS will stop updating anything that doesnt meet the official requirements through some sort of hardware check.
 
just because you can do it doesnt mean it is supported or will work right. Especially with MS, they've already shown a willingness to cut off PCs that do not meet their random requirements. Guarantee you within a year of 10 going out of support MS will stop updating anything that doesnt meet the official requirements through some sort of hardware check.

Fine by me......

Win 11 - 22H2 and Windows 10 both stop getting support on October 14 2025

After that, Microsoft is free to piss off as many customers as they like

I won't be one of them
 
I have a 6 year old PC that is updated to Ryzen 3700X, Nvidia 2080 super, 32GB RAM, 3 SSD's and is still very fast. It has TPM 2 chip but M$ says it's not compatible. If I install 11 on this PC it will be a hacked version that disables TPM check.
you need TPM enabled AND secure Boot too, activate them both in the bios
 
Unlike going from Windows 7 to Windows 8, Which no one wanted to do because Windows 8 was hated, and for fairly good reasons. Moving from Windows 10 to Windows 11 doesn't change a whole lot on the surface of it, it feels more like a GUI change than anything.

So I get why people don't want to move, Windows 10 works absolutely fine and it doesn't quite feel like an upgrade moving to 11. Unlike the move from 7 to 8 which ultimately felt like pulling your own eyes out.

I guess in three years time we'll be reading a story how Windows 11 has started overtaking 10 in terms of market share.

Windows 11 is nowhere near as bad as Windows 8 (was a fine tablet OS, mind), but in 11 they have removed so many features and just stonewall any complaints about it.

I don't know what's gotten into Microsoft as of the last year or so, but here we are.

And Windows 11 seems to be a quite a bit heavier than 10. It should also be noted that Windows 8.1 was the last Windows that ran well on HDDs. Sure, not many people use them as boot drives now, but that it's gotten worse suggests they are getting lazy with their coding.
 
Windows 11 is nowhere near as bad as Windows 8 (was a fine tablet OS, mind), but in 11 they have removed so many features and just stonewall any complaints about it.

I don't know what's gotten into Microsoft as of the last year or so, but here we are.

And Windows 11 seems to be a quite a bit heavier than 10. It should also be noted that Windows 8.1 was the last Windows that ran well on HDDs. Sure, not many people use them as boot drives now, but that it's gotten worse suggests they are getting lazy with their coding.
Windows 8's UI was an abomination, but it did have the benefit of a ton of under the hood improvements like native USB 3 support and improved filesystem access times that made it genuinely good to use.

11, OTOH, is much heavier as you have described, WAY too much BS going on in the background. The lazy coding now that RAM and SSDs are plentiful is painful. Same thing is happening in gaming with VRAM usage and storage requirements.
 
Windows 8's UI was an abomination, but it did have the benefit of a ton of under the hood improvements like native USB 3 support and improved filesystem access times that made it genuinely good to use.

11, OTOH, is much heavier as you have described, WAY too much BS going on in the background. The lazy coding now that RAM and SSDs are plentiful is painful. Same thing is happening in gaming with VRAM usage and storage requirements.

As a tablet UI it was great for Windows. It's just that most Windows computers weren't and aren't tablets. Even on a hybrid device it was bad. 8.1 was better and 10 did what they should have done in the first place: make the tablet UI a separate mode.

At least they listened to criticism back then. Now they don't even bother to respond and tell people to go to the wasteland that is the 'Feedback Hub'. An utter joke.

I agree, there is definitely some very odd stuff going on with Windows 11. The new scheduler is welcome, but seriously what?!

I know many people do have a decent amount of RAM and fastish storage, but this utter waste of resources is appalling to see. A computer that could fly on XP should not be brought to a crawl by a current OS and certainly not ones that came out with Windows 7. They aren't doing anything new that's resource intensive but a much better experience.
 
Windows 11 is nowhere near as bad as Windows 8 (was a fine tablet OS, mind), but in 11 they have removed so many features and just stonewall any complaints about it.
What features have they removed? I'm aware they're probably not features I use since I haven't noticed anything missing.
And Windows 11 seems to be a quite a bit heavier than 10.
You aren't the only person saying this in the comments either. Where do you get your data from in this regard?

I moved my main PC from Windows 10 to Windows 11 about 2 weeks ago, and I've been using Windows 11 on my work laptop since it came out in public beta.

In both cases, after doing a before and after, I found slightly less RAM usage (0.2GB ish) and a couple of gig less disk space used. If it is heavier, any articles you can point me to? Maybe my Windows 10 installations weren't in great shape?
 
What features have they removed? I'm aware they're probably not features I use since I haven't noticed anything missing.

You aren't the only person saying this in the comments either. Where do you get your data from in this regard?

I moved my main PC from Windows 10 to Windows 11 about 2 weeks ago, and I've been using Windows 11 on my work laptop since it came out in public beta.

In both cases, after doing a before and after, I found slightly less RAM usage (0.2GB ish) and a couple of gig less disk space used. If it is heavier, any articles you can point me to? Maybe my Windows 10 installations weren't in great shape?
Windows 11 flies on all my XP machines, but I optimize every version of Windows

Right click menu missing in 11
Copy/Paste is broken in 11
GTA5 is unplayable in 11 and crashes within 60 seconds every time but works fine in Windows 10 with the same GPU driver
(Gaming "might" be fine on newer hardware though)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best option is to install Win 11 to a separate boot drive and test it while keeping win 10
on it's own drive if needed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many more missing options that are listed across the Internet, but 10 has it's own set of problems
MS updates cause the most problems in Windows 10 as far as I can tell

Not one single BSOD in Windows XP for over a decade however, so that is the most reliable and malware free copy of Windows that I have ever had

Newer versions are never ending treadmills to nowhere
(George Jetson)
 
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"Microsoft really wants people on Windows 11"
If a corporation really wants people to do something, it is for their benefit, not yours. When a corporation really wants me to do something, like buying an extended warranty, the best rule of thumb I can think of is to do the exact opposite.

Remember, Microsoft really wanted people to stop using XP and switch to Vista. For anyone who doesn't remember how well that worked out, let me remind you:
There's actually a funny bit about that in this old PC vs. Mac Robot Wars video too:
 
Shame. Windows 10 is a good well polished OS.
So was XP Pro SP2/3, and MS wanted people to abandon that for Vista. At this point, I use what works and completely ignore what is said by Microsoft. Is it any wonder that the word "PROPAGANDA" begins with the letters "PR"?
My Windows 10 is at least 5 years old, runs near perfectly.
Yup, mine too. I was forced to use it in the first place because, at the time, Ryzen didn't support W7. So, if I wanted to use my brand-new R7-1700, I had to adopt W10. Fortunately, it was a good one. I have no hope that W11 will be good because MS always has the same cadence... Make a bad OS, then fix it and release the now good one as a new version. Let's look back in time shall we?

Windows95 -> Windows 98
Windows 2000/ME -> Windows XP (Pro)
Windows Vista -> Windows 7
Windows 8 -> Windows 10
Windows 11 -> Whatever MS replaces it with.

I consider myself fortunate because, to date, I have NEVER owned Windows 8. I tried it on my sister's craptop and hated it immediately. It was counter-intuitive and UGLY AS SIN to look at compared to Windows 7 Ultimate. I'm sure that the same will be true about Windows 11 because, to date, Microsoft STILL hasn't managed to fix it.
It is probably related to that TPM feature which Win 11 requires/required on your PC while installing it. IDK what changed since I read about it. There is a workaround too. I used it to try win 11 on my laptop.
So, how did you like it?
Windows 10 is bad and full of Keyloggers.
Windows 11 is even worse.. with twice as many data mining methods.

Win7 was the best OS ever created. But data-stealing capitalism won out.
Windows 7 was definitely the prettiest and was very robust but I think that from a pure performance and stability standpoint, to date, nothing could match XP Pro SP2/3. Some commercial systems STILL use XP Pro (crazy, eh?). :laughing:
Yes, and that's historically made sense in past decades. But it no longer makes sense now. Given both the much higher level of power on an absolute basis vs. the work needed to be done; and the much slower growth on a relative basis; the useful life of a general purpose office computer is changing. I would argue we are already at the point where it makes no more sense to cycle standard office computers every 6 years than it does to cycle roofing or plumbing that fast. Recent computers are fundamentally a different asset than last generations.
I agree 100%. For well over a decade, hardware advancement has outpaced software advancement by an order of magnitude. One could easily run an office PC that has an FX or Sandy Bridge CPU using an IGP or an old HD 5450 without issue.

Hell, now that FSR is commonplace, I've been curious to see what my old R9 Fury can do with it.
I think some of our comments are about the overall end of life of Windows 10, of which this is just the first step. I agree that for many practical purposes the discontinuation of brand new licenses is not likely to be an issue. What has me very angry is the upcoming discontinuation of security patches, which IMO will produce one of two results for each device, both very bad for the world: either a perfectly good computer will be thrown away, or a formerly perfectly good computer will continue to be operated, but quickly be exploited. I hope various forms of pressure convince Microsoft to reconsider this plan - if they don't, personally I think they should be held legal liable for the entirely predicable results of their decision to stop fixing their bugs that they shipped.
Microsoft is one of the richest corporations on the planet and has almost as many US members of congress in its pocket as the US healthcare industry. I seriously doubt that anything will be done to them, not because of what they do, but because of who they own.
I’m on ryzen 5000 and can’t upgrade due to being on B450. So yea even people with recent enough hardware can still be locked out. Which is why my issue really is what will this do to used pc’s?
It's simple. Continue using W10 and just get some high-end 3rd-party security software. I can guarantee you that companies like Avast and AVG see an opportunity here to make software that specialises in protecting W10 for people who don't want W11 and will react accordingly.
Maybe I buy a used motherboard and cpu, but the original owner continues to use the storage device in the next system. A person that does that might have a 16 core last gen part performing 80% as Well as the current crème de la crème, and not be capable of buying an official version of windows for it. That’s just silly. It’s not so bad as long as unofficial venues continue to flourish…. But I mean I don’t think Microsoft wants Cdkeys.ru or whatever to exist, so why push people in that direction lol.
They only care about money, nothing else. We're just seeing the true face of NeoLiberal Capitalism. The much better Keynesian Economic model was tossed aside about 70 years ago.
 
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