Netherlands and Japan agree to restrict export of chipmaking tools to China

[midian182]

What just happened? The Netherlands and Japan have reached an agreement with the US to impose restrictions on the export of chip manufacturing tools to China. The move marks the end of two years of negotiations as the Biden administration tried to convince the countries to introduce US-style export controls on chipmaking equipment.

Reports last month suggested that the Netherlands and Japan were close to implementing bans on the export of advanced chipmaking devices to China following talks with Washington. While the sensitive nature of the deal means it hasn't been publicly announced, several people familiar with the matter say an agreement was reached on Friday.

Part of the reason the talks took so long to conclude was fear over how a ban would impact the nations' chip giants: ASML in the Netherlands and Tokyo Electron and Nikon in Japan.

ASML, the world's largest supplier of lithography machines used in the chipmaking process, was already prohibited from selling its most advanced extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography equipment, which costs about $164 million per unit, to its Chinese customers as it cannot obtain an export license from the Dutch government due to pressure from the United States. ASML is now prohibited from selling at least some of its older deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography tools to Chinese clients, too.

The US has tightened its control over chip-related exports to China during the last 12 months. There were sweeping restrictions introduced in October that meant KLA Corp, Lam Research Corp, and Applied Materials Inc. could no longer export equipment required to make semiconductor components with sub-14 nanometer processes to the Asian nation. This led to concerns from the US companies that ASML would jump into the Chinese market space they had left.

The New York Times writes that Japan and the Netherlands will still likely require some time to make changes to their laws and regulations to put the new restrictions in place.

The US has long said its restrictions will prevent China from developing semiconductors for use in military applications, including supercomputers, nuclear weapons modeling, and hypersonic weapons. The export rules are also impacting the country's Made in China 2025 plan for updating its domestic manufacturing capabilities and lessening reliance on foreign chipmakers.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/97424-netherlands-japan-agree-restrict-chipmaking-tools-china.html

 

[dangh]

There is no better way to speed up Chinese technology and technological independence than imposing those restriction. That could work with some backwater country like ruSSia, but China is large and modern dictatorship with rich resources.
Wouldn't be better instead to actually make real actions, like acknowledge Taiwan as a full-ledge country, strongly help South China Sea countries to deal with BS artificial islands made to take over that territory instead of pushing them to be more aggressive and giving them time, motivation and resources to be even more dangerous in 20-30 years? This should have been addressed and dealt with straight away. Otherwise we will be having a crazy nation trying to spread communism accros the world with resources to do so.

 

[NintPlayBox]

Well it was about time for China to feel the burn of global isolation.

 

[NintPlayBox]

There is no better way to speed up Chinese technology and technological independence than imposing those restriction.

China for sure will come up with ideas on how to move forward but the reality is, China alone in the long run their technology will fall behind as their find themselves isolated from the rest of the world powers.

 

[yannus]

The real solution is to stop relying on China building back the companies that have been destroyed or not been created. The problem is who would do the job as in western countries few people are entrepreneurs and the tax system is killing them.
As always governments fake fighting China or Russia but in reality are sabotaging their own country.

 

[kira setsu]

There is no better way to speed up Chinese technology and technological independence than imposing those restriction. That could work with some backwater country like ruSSia, but China is large and modern dictatorship with rich resources.
Wouldn't be better instead to actually make real actions, like acknowledge Taiwan as a full-ledge country, strongly help South China Sea countries to deal with BS artificial islands made to take over that territory instead of pushing them to be more aggressive and giving them time, motivation and resources to be even more dangerous in 20-30 years? This should have been addressed and dealt with straight away. Otherwise we will be having a crazy nation trying to spread communism accros the world with resources to do so.

Gotta agree, especially looking at the US and how crazy our leadership is, china has the focus and bitterness needed to push their tech while we toss rocks and slurs at each other.

 

[yRaz]

The real solution is to stop relying on China building back the companies that have been destroyed or not been created. The problem is who would do the job as in western countries few people are entrepreneurs and the tax system is killing them.
As always governments fake fighting China or Russia but in reality are sabotaging their own country.

It's not that our current tax system is killing them, it's that opening up free trade with China, looking the other way to slave labor and setting up a puppet state that turned into an authoritarian regime that we can no longer control killed American jobs.

We had a race to the bottom to make everything as cheap as possible and we lost. It wasn't just the US either, during the 80s and 90s the US and Europe sent all the jobs to China. Now the Chinese people are trying to go from third world to first world and its not even that cheap to Manufacture there anymore.

Many companies are pulling out entirely not because of the US but because the CCP can no longer control its people. Companies are shying away from investing in China because its starting to destabilize.

 

[psycros]

There is no better way to speed up Chinese technology and technological independence than imposing those restriction. That could work with some backwater country like ruSSia, but China is large and modern dictatorship with rich resources.
Wouldn't be better instead to actually make real actions, like acknowledge Taiwan as a full-ledge country, strongly help South China Sea countries to deal with BS artificial islands made to take over that territory instead of pushing them to be more aggressive and giving them time, motivation and resources to be even more dangerous in 20-30 years? This should have been addressed and dealt with straight away. Otherwise we will be having a crazy nation trying to spread communism accros the world with resources to do so.

Nearly all Chinese technology is based on stolen western IP. This isn't even debatable. Over 80% of US and Canadian universities have been victims of Chinese tech espionage. Without the countries that actually invent everything China is at least 10 years behind technologically. The problem is that China does business with nations that can still obtain those advanced machines that enable the mass production of latest-gen chips. The only way to stop this is to block exports of advanced lithography and other cutting-edge tools to ALL dangerous nations (Iran, etc) which you'll have a hard time getting the entire free world to agree upon.

 

[Kashim]

There is no better way to speed up Chinese technology and technological independence than imposing those restriction

So we should let China use our tools so they can see how they work and copy them, because it's better than sanctioning them and forcing them to build their own from scratch? Sure, makes sense.

 

[Hodor]

Ban on exports of miniature hammers and screwdrivers. Try making chips without them, China!

 

[dangh]

So we should let China use our tools so they can see how they work and copy them, because it's better than sanctioning them and forcing them to build their own from scratch? Sure, makes sense.

@psycros
All the tools are already in there, if you forgot where are many silicon foundries. In addition, Huawei already patented their own sub-7nm lithography technology, so having them up and running is just matter of couple of years. It is too late, too little - now we're going to see battle of Taiwan just because west was indecisive for last 20 years. The longer you allow authoritarian nations grow, and if you make half-assed approach instead of proper push and united stance, the worse it become for people who still value freedom of life. Very limited sanctions only works to strengthen chinese nationalists movements and motivation.

 

[Endymio]

Huawei already patented their own sub-7nm lithography technology, so having them up and running is just matter of couple of years.

Huawei patented a 7nm EUV litho scanner, which is far from the entire process. And even for just the scanner itself, patenting it and building it are two very different things.

 

[Watzupken]

Will this help? May be in the short term in my opinion. The problem is, you can restrict sale of equipment, but you cannot limit the lost of talents to build this equipment or bring the necessary skillset to China. Everything man made can be replicated as long as you have the right skillset and the finances. That's why ultimately, it is going to hurt even more in the longer term. All these fabs that are being built at this point, it may all be gathering dust due to duplication of fabs in the name of "national security".

 

[yannus]

It's not that our current tax system is killing them,

Well, in Europe it is.

 

[yRaz]

Well, in Europe it is.

It's not about taxes, it's about tax law consistency. High taxes are fine. This might sound counter intuitive, but states with hire taxes encourage reinvesting into a company and growth than just take profits. So a growth focused company may want to go to a "higher" tax state because all of the money it puts into growth is a tax write off. Companies that base themselves out of tax havens are not interested in growth. They just take their yearly profits and continue as usual.
Now, don't confuse what I said with other states. There are high tax states that don't even know their own tax law. States and cities that are going broke to the point that they don't care about growth or write offs, they want revenue at any cost.

 

[yannus]

It's not about taxes, it's about tax law consistency. High taxes are fine. This might sound counter intuitive, but states with hire taxes encourage reinvesting into a company and growth than just take profits. So a growth focused company may want to go to a "higher" tax state because all of the money it puts into growth is a tax write off. Companies that base themselves out of tax havens are not interested in growth. They just take their yearly profits and continue as usual.
Now, don't confuse what I said with other states. There are high tax states that don't even know their own tax law. States and cities that are going broke to the point that they don't care about growth or write offs, they want revenue at any cost.

Tax should be massive on the ultra wealthy first and the poor should be spared. When tax systems do the opposite and take from the poor and give to the ultra wealthy, there's no hope for competition or even worse for people to start their own company. As an example in Europe, huge dirty farms receive funds from the EU while small organic farmers are left with nothing running to bank-route. Another more famous example is Apple in Europe not paying taxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_v_Commission while most countries apply a 20-30% tax on companies. Proportional taxes are not fair and are not even applied. Exponential taxes should be the norm so that the mass of the people could have an opportunity to prosper while the 0.01% should be limited in their growth by massive taxes.

 

[Endymio]

Tax should be massive on the ultra wealthy first and the poor should be spared.

Translation: "You have money and I want it.". The same line of thinking a man with a gun uses, before he robs the liquor store.

"the 0.01% should be limited in their growth by massive taxes."

Nice Quote. Goes well with,

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation."
-- V. Lenin.

You might also be interested in the National Socialists (Nazi Party) "25 Point Program" for transforming Germany into a worker's paradise:

# 11: We demand The abolition of incomes unearned by work (I.e. capital gains)
#14: We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
#16: We demand...the immediate communalizing of large stores and their lease to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of orders
#18: Usurers(money lenders) and profiteers must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

 

[yannus]

Translation: "You have money and I want it.". The same line of thinking a man with a gun uses, before he robs the liquor store.

People have a tendency to translate to others their own thoughts. If you need me to clarify or "translate", just ask.

Nice Quote. Goes well with,

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation."
-- V. Lenin.

You might also be interested in the National Socialists (Nazi Party) "25 Point Program" for transforming Germany into a worker's paradise:

# 11: We demand The abolition of incomes unearned by work (I.e. capital gains)
#14: We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
#16: We demand...the immediate communalizing of large stores and their lease to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of orders
#18: Usurers(money lenders) and profiteers must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

Bourgeoisie was not the 0.01% and if you read my post well, I'm talking about the ultra wealthy, not the rich. Wealth is legitimate. Having enough money to corrupt a whole continent isn't.

Finally everything that a good man does is not necessarily good and vice versa.