New Windows chief explains why Microsoft redesigned Windows

By Rick · 103 replies
Dec 14, 2012
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  1. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,811   +472

    "...and find the start screen all in the first session"
    I didn't realise OS design was a "Where's Wally" challenge?
  2. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,811   +472

    A key on a piano is how wide? You have a margin of what? 15-20mm? How many DPI is your monitor? 100-200? So a pixel width is say 0.254mm. Do you think you have 0.254mm of control using your fingers? I'm pretty damn well sure I can do a LOT better with a mouse than a finger.
  3. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 11,168   +986

    Sorry there Guest, bad assumption; Professional programmer for three decades & 4 grandchildren - - HATE the thing.
    Yes, the only constant is change - - so what? A parochial design team that breaks the user's work flow is D.O.A. and slows
    adoption of the new product. There is more to life that Texting, Facebook, Twitter and chat. Those are kiddy applications and
    business needs many other services.
  4. It's incredibly insulting that she says touchscreen will never be as efficient but users will get used to it. That's sounds like Apple arrogance! Who wants to be forced to get used to it!
  5. hood6558

    hood6558 TS Addict Posts: 271   +67

    Julie can access my hard drive any time (I have a thing for middle-aged geek girls). As far as W8 goes, I'm already getting bored with it, and also with all the "heated discussion" about it. it's already yesterday's news - it's here, it works, logical next step for mobile, blah blah blah, if you don't like it, don't use it, now let's move on! Windows 9 Desktop Power Edition - that's something to talk about! In a way, I've already transformed my Win8 Pro installation into a desktop power edition - I never have to see "Metro" unless I get bored, and all my file types are associated with real programs, not "apps", so I can go for days without even seeing it. If I get REAL bored I might see what happens if you delete ALL your "apps" at once. People get all worked up about the smallest things, really, just take a chance, learn a little for the 3 hours or so it takes, and MOVE ON!!!
  6. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,811   +472

    Yes interesting perspective. I think that having a touchscreen 24"+ display is retarded. Seriously who wants to sit close enough to touch a screen that big? And I want the efficiency of mouse and keyboard. They should find a decent substitute rather than a gimick!

    Really MS, what has been the best thing about touchscreen? Angry Birds? Serious question there...
  7. lawfer

    lawfer TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,270   +91

    Except it's already functional. Did <I>you</I> hit your head or something?

    Windows 8 is selling just as much as Windows 7. Get your head around that fact; yes, it might not feel "right" to you, but remember Microsoft is not selling the OS to you, but a horde of <I>consumers</I> who are willing to take the change.

    There are no facts proving otherwise. I have facts to prove Windows 8 is successful. What facts do you have? Your friends? Family? Neighbors? Co-workers? People on the Internet? You and who you know are nothing but a pixel in 4K display.

    Let me give it to you straight: Windows 8 is better than 7.

    You don't like the Start Screen and anything Metro-related and that's completely fine. I'm offering you a way to bring back the Start Screen and not see Metro, but all you want is complain because you don't like it, and you desperately hope other people don't like it so that it fails and Microsoft goes back to its "roots."

    Which is noble and all, but it won't happen. Leaving alone the fact that Windows 8 so far is successful and that this marks the first time Microsoft has a hardware offering to match its software offering, people, and by that I mean the hundreds of millions of people <I>not</I> around you--or your neighborhood, city, country or even continent--don't mind the change as much as you do. We are talking about the people that are willing to take the change because they were never used to what was there before; we're talking about the kind of people you see fighting in malls over $2,000 HDTVs at 4 AM on a Black Friday. Your regular consumer. Microsoft is <I>set</I> on Metro, as official statements, interviews, and rumors have concluded.

    They way I see it, if you don't like Metro, you can get the architectural benefits and still remain on the desktop and have a native Start menu. Whether you choose to or not, it's irrelevant to me, "bro."

    Yes. And not only it that, it can also remove (or enable) the charms bar <I>only</I> on secondary monitors. Useful is you perhaps want your second screen to be your "Metro" screen all the time, while your primary monitor being your desktop screen. Or you could have no such thing. You can also remove the hot-corners (which I loathed) from all screens.

    Seriously, I've been recommending this to friends and family reluctant of Windows 8 and they have no problems (I use it myself too). In fact, I've seen people use both "worlds" just fine.

    In response to tekman42, per the bold section, you suggested that you shouldn't be tasked to find third-party apps if you're not happy with the Start Screen (e.g. Metro). As you could read, all I asked was why, then, would you complain of such thing if you knew, before buying the product, that you wouldn't like the very feature that would inevitably task you into finding those third-party apps? Perhaps I misread, if so, feel free to elaborate.

    Also, that's fine. Just know that <I>there is</I> a way to remove everything Metro and get your Start Menu back. In essence, it'd just be a better version of Windows 7. But that's up to you.
  8. St1ckM4n

    St1ckM4n TS Evangelist Posts: 2,922   +630

    This, in a nutshell, is what Metro haters are talking about.

    There is simply no excuse for leaving the code in Win8 and having a Metro on/off switch in control panel.


    These quotes are gold. I nominate these for tech failure of 2012:

    "Touch is the most direct and natural way to interact with computers"
    "We didn't want you to have to make a choice"

    The arrogance of this person astounds me. I really stopped reading at that point, my rage qas so high.
  9. hood6558

    hood6558 TS Addict Posts: 271   +67

    Really, wouldn't your arms get tired of reaching for the screen all the time? Unless the screen is positioned about where your keyboard is wait, then you'd have Surface or Tabletop or whatever you want to call it - just a big clumsy touch screen, either built in or laying on top of your desk. Of course then there's no room for a real keyboard, so you'd have to use the on-screen glass keyboard, which would get old rather quickly, I think. And it would be difficult to kick back a bit to watch a movie; you'd pretty much have to stay hunched over your desk to see it well. Touch may be the thing for tablets and such, since most of what you do on a tablet is just selecting something and letting it run - it's just a big super-remote with the TV and stereo built in! But how can you get seriously productive and do real work on such a toy? You can't, and shouldn't try. They always show, on the fancy, futuristic commercials, some photographer or artist, flipping quickly and gracefully through their portfolio with just the barest wave of a finger, or an architect putting a building together with just a few gestures, but that's not what working is for the other 99.99% of us.
  10. lawfer

    lawfer TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,270   +91

    There's no excuse. There's a reason.

    Whether people agree with the reason or not is their prerogative. I personally could not care less.

    I'm also not that immature to think Microsoft owes <I>me</I> anything. If there is an alternative, I'll take it. I'm not going to hate on Windows 8 based on the ethicality of Microsoft's decision. There is a way to get a native Start Menu back and still enjoy the benefits of Windows 8? Well, sign me up.

    Otherwise then stick with Windows 7. Criticism is fine, but most haters now sound like those Jehovah's Witnesses that knock on your door trying so but so hard to convince you that what they preach is the truth.

    (No offense intended if you happen to be a Jehovah's Witness.) :)
  11. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,728   +3,703

    You don't get it do you. It is not the fact that the start menu is still there and can be turned on even though Microsoft doesn't want it turned on. It is the fact that if we don't fight to keep it Microsoft will remove the code in future OS designs. With that thought I will leave you to wonder how we will keep the Start Menu if we do not voice our opinions now on wanting to keep it.
  12. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,811   +472

    Um what facts do you have? Sales figures? Microsoft does force or encourage many suppliers to ship Win8 with new PCs. Do you have actual upgrade figures?

    By what metric? You haven't said any way Win8 is better than Win7.

    Another point of view is that it adds unnecessary features and a cumbersome interface for a desktop user so it is a worse version? Why not stick with the more polished version?

    Using a mouse on the Metro UI is pretty inefficient for operations such as minimise. Using the GUI for task switching is slow. Why bother using Metro for task management when keyboard is light years faster. The App search is annoying too... by default control panel items are not displayed in search results. You have to select the sublist rather than just have the sublist items displayed directly. Seems to lack polish.
    ikesmasher likes this.
  13. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,020   +2,548

    And from my point of view, it can only get worse. It seems to me that M$ will start to exert more control over what is installable into Windows, (a la Apple), and force more and more people to to buy apps from them, and at the same time forcing independent developers out of the market.
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,020   +2,548

    In any event, everybody take a break and watch a video about "touch", and "touching".
    Burty117 likes this.
  15. Burty117

    Burty117 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 3,147   +915

    I have no idea how old you are, but my dad was in the room when I clicked the video, he recognized it instantly and thought it was the next version of rick rolling
  16. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 1,935   +764

    Everyone who wanted easy access to their most commonly used items in windows before 8 had the option to place them on their desktop. While I choose not to operate in this manner, I know many people who do. Personally, I'm not buying her argument.
  17. ET3D

    ET3D TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,383   +172

    You're so right. And to think I wasted all this time reading this stupid thread, a repeat of countless other threads on the subject, and actually thought of responding to it. I feel so ashamed.
  18. As a regular user, I just a bit traumatic with Window Vista, does this new Window8 will do the same thing again to me?
  19. This just sounds like damage control from Microsoft. With Windows 7 their was no need to explain why/how it worked, people just liked it and used it. With Windows 8, Microsoft has to show you that in 6 weeks you'll be fine. Are they going to pay for the user training required? If Microsoft was going to create two environments why not just keep the Win 7 style desktop and add the Metro style environment, then add a boot into environment switch, easy. But, no, they are clonning the Apple model and some things got lost in translation. All this really means though, is users are free to choose to whatever OS (Microsoft, Apple, Linux, etc) that they want, just as they had before.
    St1ckM4n likes this.
  20. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 10,742   +421

    As noted above, use StartIsBack, its $3 for 2 licenses. Sure you can argue you shouldn't have to buy a 3rd party app to use 8 like 7. I 'get' that argument, but I don't think it is strong enough to argue 7 over 8. Perhaps I'm missing something though, so could you tell me why 8 (with a $3 piece of software) is worse than 7?

    I could also understand that maybe the reimagined task manager and the better copy dialog boxes (and ability to pause transfers) aren't enough to justify the upgrade price of 8. But, I'm just having a real hard time wrapping my head around how 8 is worse than 7.
  21. When all people are arguing or complaining Windows 8, MS itself maybe preparing the next version of Windows which need to pay subscription just like premium AV programs :D
  22. "We didn’t want you to have to make a choice."

    Oh, that's so sweet of you. Can you please come over and pick out what I am supposed to eat for dinner also? I just don't feel smart enough to make my own choices.

    I am so glad Microsoft is looking out for my best interest. First the government takeover of healthcare. Now Microsoft's takeover of the desktop. So many good people in the looking spending the days and nights putting their own interests aside for me. Kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Yeah, take away all our choices so that we don't have to make any.
  23. So many butthurt haters lol. I've been using Windows 8 on my desktop computer since shortly after release and the Start screen is great. I also still use Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 daily so I have a good idea of how both work by comparison and I would choose the Start screen over the menu every time.

    Some people are just ignorant and suck at adapting I guess.
  24. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 13,020   +2,548

    And yet, here @ post #67, you persist...... And now "I'm mad at myself", for taking the time to respond to your, "I'm mad at myself" rant....:oops: I guess it's true, misery does love company, or does it....?:confused:
  25. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,728   +3,703

    I'm guessing you could also adapt to a dress code and wear a pink and green uniform. Sure you could adapt but would you want to? I guess that would also depend on the person. Not everyone has the same desires, so quit throwing stones at those of us who do not like the direction that Microsoft is headed in. Sure we can bring back the start menu manually, but if we do not voice our desires to keep it, Microsoft will assume no one wants it for future OS designs.

    For the record, I don't want to adapt mainly because I don't agree with the cosmetic design. It has nothing to do with my ignorance of the product. The second reason is I feel I'm not getting my moneys worth, when I choose to ignore or disable practically every feature. The third reason is lack of choice. Microsoft has made it clear they don't want the user to have choices.

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