Eldritch
Posts: 597 +1,155
Yes, what could possibly go wrong?
Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop vs. Desktop GPU
- Thread starter Scorpus
- Start date
koblongata
Posts: 591 +341
Well, if you take a look at the desktop 4090, if the heatsink is removed it can easily fit into a desktop replacement laptop. Maybe some special water cooler that you can hook up to a water pump at home to unlock desktop level power, and only air cooled on the go, Eluktronics is already doing it, but only with laptop parts, imagine if they put desktop part in it.
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Eldritch
Posts: 597 +1,155
It's not the GPU chip alone which may lead to disaster but its very close proximity to RAM, SSD etc who are not designed to withstand very high temps.
Did I mention laptop batteries? They may explode due to heat or die due to massive draw of power.
Then there are wire issues, chasis issues, ventilation issues and even outlet issues I.e. suddenly your laptop can burn your normal plug points!
This can quickly destroy a brand reputation for long term. We all remember Samsung Note 7 saga.
Did I mention laptop batteries? They may explode due to heat or die due to massive draw of power.
Then there are wire issues, chasis issues, ventilation issues and even outlet issues I.e. suddenly your laptop can burn your normal plug points!
This can quickly destroy a brand reputation for long term. We all remember Samsung Note 7 saga.
koblongata
Posts: 591 +341
Er, OKKO, you win, it's impossible, I am sorry to be so stupid, there can never be a laptop using desktop graphics part that can run at full power with additional cooling at home. You must have been through a lot of hardcore engineering challenges, knowing the absolute limits of things..
brucek
Posts: 1,725 +2,694
If this was the Lawspot blog, that to me would be the most interesting part of the article: why or why not should this marketing approach be legal?
As opposed to 100% clear cut fraud, where even a wary consumer had no reasonable way to know ahead of time that they were not getting the product they thought they were, Nvidia clearly has wiggle room. There's a published spec sheet that is accurate, the formal "4090 Laptop GPU" name is slightly different even if intentionally picked to know that for example retail sales people are pretty likely to leave out the laptop part, there are plenty of press reviews that make the distinction plain, etc. etc.
Yet despite being honest in those respects, it sure feels slimy & deceptive.
I guess for me the next step in investigating this topic would be trying to understand how many if any consumers were actually fully deceived. Are there are any accounts of someone buying a 4090 laptop, finding out soon after that it was not the 4090 performance they expected, and then being denied a return? How often does this happen?
Eldritch
Posts: 597 +1,155
Happens frequently as no laptop CPU is on par with their desktop counterpart BUT the extent in Nvidia's release is beyond performance but straight up specs of lower model.
Yes this is deceptive marketing.
Yes they will get away with it.
No, its not ethical at all. But at this point, do we have any iota of doubt left that Nvidia is greedy AF?
Thatsdisgusting
Posts: 231 +286
I agree with Tim, and if they've assigned it as RTX 4080, then it would benefit ngreedia even instead of backfiring. Show that company can fit one of two top chips inside laptop, instead of pathetic try to greedily hike pricetag to grab another 1K$ from one sell. But still, if it was at least 30% cheaper, I would fall for a "Laptop that is even with my 3080Ti/3090 desktop", especially considering where I live now...
One thing to note, would be great if you add AD103 and GA102 cards to this comparison.
One thing to note, would be great if you add AD103 and GA102 cards to this comparison.
letsgoiowa
Posts: 197 +353
I'd consider this simple fraud or a scam. "No you see the RTX 4090 is faster than the RTX 4090! You should just know that, duh!" -Nvidia
They should be labeled with TDP, marked with an M designation, and be labeled according to the chip they use. The ideal labeling would be "RTX 4080M 135W" or similar.
They should be labeled with TDP, marked with an M designation, and be labeled according to the chip they use. The ideal labeling would be "RTX 4080M 135W" or similar.
A corporation we're speaking about here.
Corporations are designed to scam people. It's called being clever and successful.
I'm not exactly pro Nvidia, but I think the problem is the manufacturers.
In Device manager, the GPU in my laptop says "Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU".
Endymio
Posts: 2,669 +2,701
Yeah, that whole annoying 'freedom' thing keeps getting in the way.
NVidia doesn't market laptop GPUs to the general public. Laptop manufacturers who do sell these chips can charge whatever they wish, and none appear to be claiming that a laptop 4090 equates to desktop performance. The average consumer isn't even aware of what these terms mean.
I'm always amused by those who give product names like 'UltraMaxx' or "TopSpeed" a pass, but bellow in rage over nomenclature like "4090" being recycled. But here's a pro tip: for laptops or any major purchase: research how the product performs before buying it. And, if you do feel you were "misled" after the purchase, take advantage of that free 15-day return period.
pcnthuziast
Posts: 1,515 +1,341
Devil's advocate take:
Nvidia intends the naming convention to specify a tier in the stack. Not the actual physical specifications of the silicon.
In this case it is unneccessary to 'arbitrarily' incorporate designations in the names to specify whether it is a mobile or desktop chip due to that being inexplicably obvious.
Nvidia intends the naming convention to specify a tier in the stack. Not the actual physical specifications of the silicon.
In this case it is unneccessary to 'arbitrarily' incorporate designations in the names to specify whether it is a mobile or desktop chip due to that being inexplicably obvious.
Of course someone spending top money for a laptop had better do their homework and Nvidia can name it anything they want, including the 5090. At the same time, marketing 2 different products with the same name is obfuscation, regardless of claims. It is attempting to upsell one product based on the good name of the other.
Nvidia has a history of this (so does AMD), the most recent being the 3060 8GB and the 3050 6GB. This 4090 laptop part is no different and in Nvidia's Pascal days, this would have been accurately labeled as a 4080.
Which shows they can do it right. But right now they choose not to. And lol @"bellow in rage". Just present your argument without useless hyperbole as it works against taking you seriously.
Endymio
Posts: 2,669 +2,701
Oops! The "4090" isn't the complete name:
4090 Laptop = fastest GPU in the laptop segment.
4090 = fastest GPU in the desktop segment.
Anyone who was ever confused by this, please raise your hands.
It's equally valid to state they're down-selling the desktop product by identifying it with laptop performance. Is the glass half empty or half full?
passwordistaco
Posts: 572 +1,240
"That headline looks familiar."
Publish date "February 15, 2024".
First comment date Feb 10, 2023.
Publish date "February 15, 2024".
First comment date Feb 10, 2023.
Nobina
Posts: 4,504 +5,507
For the average Joe, "Laptop" in the name doesn't necessarily mean it's slower, it could be interpreted as the same GPU but physically smaller to fit in a laptop, which it is not. I'm all for doing your own research before buying anything, but most people don't do that, and it's clear what Nvidia is doing here.
GoldenGoat
Posts: 239 +270
I agree they should not give them the same name. It's a marketing trick at best or probably completely dishonest. But I'm also use to it. I know it's not the same product and don't really need it to have a different name because I know better. The laptop chips are cool though because in almost every case they give way better performance per watt.
hahahanoobs
Posts: 5,221 +3,075
You'll never get Jensen and laptop makers on board with this also because you'd have to change GPU naming based on the different power levels as well. Then you'd have to do the same with CPU's I'm sure.
This problem goes deeper than a dGPU name change.
This problem goes deeper than a dGPU name change.
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GodisanAtheist
Posts: 225 +315
Nothing wrong with recycling an article, but it would have been nice to put some RTX4080 benches in so we can see how laptop AD103 compares to desktop AD103 at the same time.
Also, should disclose drivers etc a bit better, since things might have shifted a bit with updated drivers etc.
Also, should disclose drivers etc a bit better, since things might have shifted a bit with updated drivers etc.
In the past the Desktop and Laptop 1080 and 2080 were the same silicon with the laptop's performance behind the desktop by a relatively small percentage based purely on power limits. This creates expectations of company behavior and product performance.
The 3080 started the trend of reducing core count and using tier-down dies with 29% fewer cores and this is only worse now with Nvidia claiming a "90" laptop variant. Which uses, identical silicon as the desktop 4080, a full tier down from the desktop 4090 missing 41% of the cores and 36% of the performance.
This is great marketing but also obfuscation.
False equivalence. The Desktop 4090 sets the standard and you know that.
The Desktop 4090 is the model first reviewed by everyone and the product that creates the expectation of performance. The Laptop 4090 was delivered months later after the reputation was established and leeched off of it. Yes, it could dilute the 4090 brand a bit but the Desktop variant exists in about 10x the numbers of the Laptop variant using 3dMark Time Spy submissions as a rough proxy. If you use other newer benchmark submissions like Speed Way or Port Royal, that number climbs past 25-1 in favor of the Desktop.
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Endymio
Posts: 2,669 +2,701
I know no such thing. You're working off a false premise. There are two types of consumers here: the basic Joe who (correctly) merely assumes that the bigger number means better performance, and the informed techie who (also correctly) bases their purchase off benchmarks not marketing hype. Neither is being misled. This is simply more hot air from those looking to justify their perpetual outrage at corporate America.
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