Nvidia gets anti-competitive with unsavory GeForce Partner Program

By Scorpus · 75 replies
Mar 12, 2018
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  1. Rygar

    Rygar TS Rookie


    For an investor, stock price going up generally means profit bud. Profit for the investor. Telsa hasn't made a dime yet in terms of profit. That hasn't stopped people from making a killing on the stock.

    Economics 001
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  2. AMD isn't better than Nvidia, they are both guilty of pulling crap like this in the past.

    Nvidia did a really great marketing job of convincing the world that AMD make rubbish products and they did a a lot of that by sending expensive cards free to tech reviewers, sponsoring reviews etc etc etc. Which to be honest they all do.

    The problem that generally occurs is that AMD get criticized for not having a competitive product and labeled as cheap crap (which to be fair bulldozer was) but when they have something come to market that is pretty great (Ryzen) they get punished for not having the fastest CPU in the world for $1 with a free car.

    They are destined to be the company that can never WIN and no mater what they release people will always buy Nvidia and Intel.........

    Note: Have a 1080TI because I was disappointed with Vega 64 but reality is it would have suited my needs and cost a whole lot less.
     
    Rygar likes this.
  3. Rygar

    Rygar TS Rookie

    I agree they both are to blame for this. I do give AMD credit for Ryzen and I would be much more likely to buy an AMD CPU than I would an AMD GPU - now that they have Ryzen. I am quite happy with my de-lidded i7-7700k at 5.0 Ghz though as clock speed, currently, is much more important to gaming than is the number of cores.

    When AMD can beat or equal the equivalent of a 1080ti, hopefully without the heat issues most of their cards have even in aftermarket form, people will change from Nvidia to AMD. Problem is everything AMD can do, Nvidia can do better. Even if they do release a new GPU that smokes the current Nvidia king, you can pretty much bet Nvidia will release something better immediately. That's why Nvidia always wins and AMD always loses. I'm not saying that cant change, but the 8-ball says not likely.

    The best part for investors though is Nvidia has grown farrrr beyond its original gaming footstep. AMD as an investment isn't bad, it's just very slow, although rumors of a possible outside company acquiring them has made it move a bit recently.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  4. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 2,903   +2,068

    You contradicted yourself.

    "stock price going up generally means profit bud"

    "Telsa hasn't made a dime yet in terms of profit"

    and yet Tesla's stock price keeps going up.

    Hmm, methinks your generalizations are incorrect. Economics 001 isn't even a thing. It's like your the 2nd guy in the bar going "Oh yeah well I'm super duper smarts!".

    All this is besides the point that this whole stock BS is a scarecrow argument. You have yet to respond on point and I'm sure it's because you can't retort. It's a typical argument used when someone can't counter-argue on the whole and must try and distract by constantly taking an argument else where.

    You took the argument from

    "Intel and AMD team up and try to shut Nvidia out of the gaming laptop market. Nvidia works to shut AMD even further out of the desktop GPU market (which Intel isn't in) and then reacts defensively to protect itself in the gaming laptop market by providing monetary incentives to partners. This is business as usual for all three companies."

    to stocks after I disproved your 'There is no evidence claim' and your 'This was a defensive move by Nvidia claim'. Both are obviously and blatantly false statements and that's proven since you keep changing the subject to get away. Aside from the fact that you try to brush this off as "business as usual" when it is clearly not. If it was it wouldn't have made headlines everywhere.

    It's a good thing you admitted to being an Nvidia investor though. You are here because you want to spread pro Nvidia propaganda to control the damage and line your own pockets. Why should anyone listen to you when you are so obviously self invested? Investors coming to a forum and pretending to act in other's self interest, that's morally and ethically pathetic.

    Your comment of admission

    "I got in on Nvidia when it was $116.00/s. Thanks for the investing tip."



    Stop trying to appease that guy, he's a Nvidia investor. He admitted so himself. His opinion is going to be inherently stinted.. AMD have NEVER pulled monopolistic practices like this before. If you can provide proof of such I'd like to see it. You are guilty of doing what you just accused others of doing, AMD steps the slightest bit out of line and everyone gives them crap for it. Nvidia lies about the specs of it's cards and everyone gives it a pass but if AMD so much as mis-markets their video cards everyone's up in arms. Both things are bad but saying they are both equal is absolutely false equivalence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  5. I like this video from AdoredTV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0LSZJyA0F8

    It provides examples of a number of companies including the big three that have "cheated", determining which "cheat or lie" is the worst is always hard and I generally think that if a company thinks they can get away with it they will. The more money they have the riskier they tend to be as money makes people feel powerful and safe.

    There is a lot still to be confirmed around the current issue but partners not willing to go on record normally would mean that Nvidia are strong arming (either with official policy or behind closed doors) and partners are worried about the repercussions from Nvidia.

    As I mentioned above AMD unfortunately will be the company that can never WIN because of the label "cheap", "rubbish" etc which is a shame really. It shows the influence that marketing really has. Nvidia have influenced what people think of AMD a lot but AMD have to take some of the blame to with rubbish products in the past.

    Lisa Su is a great engineer and will do a lot for AMD, Raj was never meant to build a powerful GPU for high end gaming, it is obvious now this was really designed for workstation compute and super thin / power efficient devices.
     
  6. Jules Mark

    Jules Mark TS Enthusiast Posts: 28   +8

    Sound like a NVDA shareholder to me.
     
  7. Jules Mark

    Jules Mark TS Enthusiast Posts: 28   +8

    Oh BTW Rygar, AMD isn't in the same boat as Intel, Nvidia as you would like to mention.

    AMD is part of HSA Foundation, who dedicate to OPEN and FREE standards, something which you obviously have no clue.
     
  8. rudragod

    rudragod TS Rookie

    calm down
    for NVIDIA, asus will use ASUS ROG republic of Gamer name
    For AMD, asus will use ASUS ROM Republic of Miner name
    LOL
     
    Fluffmeister and Capaill like this.
  9. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 246   +184

    Even though it's obvious that you're joking, even this has its implications. ROG is a well established brand already, ROM is not. So it would put AMD at an unfair disadvantage against nVidia.
     
  10. Theinsanegamer

    Theinsanegamer TS Evangelist Posts: 1,224   +1,321

    So you go on about how nvidia's marketing convinced everybody AMD was garbage, then you yourself admit to buying an nvidia GPU, despite the AMD model suiting your needs and being far cheaper, because it was "disappointing".

    Talk about torpedoing your own argument.

    AMD has consistently disappointing in the last 4-5 years, with a couple bright spots thrown in. This is why AMD has a reputation for being garbage. They dropped the ball with the 300, 400, and 500 lines, they dropped the ball with VEGA, bulldozer was just an abomination that tanked their reputation across both the mobile and desktop industries and cost them what server market they had, ece. The 700 and x200 series were great, but even then the writing was on the wall that AMD didnt know what it was doing, with the 200 series full of rebrands.

    Sounds to me like it wasnt just nvidia's marketing that convinced people AMD was garbage, with was AMD taking that marketing as gospel and consistently finding new ways to screw up. Heck, it wasnt until late 2016 that they finally started fixing some of the long standing issues with their drivers, and there are still some long term bugs that have yet to be fixed.

    AMD has some good products now, ryzen and raven ridge are what AMD should have been doing years ago. Now the question becomes 'will AMD release new, consistently better generations, or is this another athlon 64/phenom II situation where the replacement generation will suck?'. And AMD has nothing in the GPU pipeline, vague promises with NAVI are all we have, VEGA has failed to make a significant impact, and nvidia controls the high end market.


    Funny enough, I am old enough to remember back to the geforce 4 days. Pre 700, you had the 600 series, which were quite competitive with the 7000 line and didnt carry AMD's at the time abysmal driver support. You had the 500 series, which ran unopposed in the high end because AMD rested on their laurels with the 5000 series and rebranded them for the 6000s, caught completely off guard with the 580. The 400 series was hot trash (literally) and promptly got smashed by AMD's 5000 line. The main reason the 5000 series didnt do better? Drivers. AMD's 5000 driver support was abysmal, this was a time when you had to regularly switch catalyst versions depending on what game you had, and god help you if you had crossfire. Nvidia and SLI were a godsend by comparison.

    does AMD have a not-so-accurate reputation? Perhaps. There are a lot of people who remember when AMD's drivers were horrible, as this only fixed itself near the end of 2016 IIRC. That reputation was earned by AMD, and the only way to get rid of it will be several consistent generations of fantastic support.

    Given VEGA, I dont see that happening.
     
  11. atari1980

    atari1980 TS Rookie

    The AMD Radeon 5870 was a revelation for me, prior to that I was always buying nvidia, from a Geforce 2 MX 400, to the 4400 ti, then the 6600, the underperforming 7800 GS at the GTX price, to my short lived 8800GTX and 8800GT (remember the bumpgate?).

    Then I got the 280 GTX, which was overheating after 30 seconds in Crysis. It was ruled defective and had to wait about a month for a replacement (the 280 GTX were all recalled). Annoyed, I decided to replace it by a 260 FTW.

    The drivers from nvidia were horrible, buggy and sluggish, also had to switch from WHQL to Beta all the time for new games.

    To me the AMD drivers were a lot less bloated, more responsive, and switching screen didn't need 20 clicks and 30 seconds.

    Every new drivers the 5870 got better. I havent looked back since then, my 290 still serves me well, overclocks like a champ (+125mhz on core) and is still getting better with newer drivers. Got the 5870 at release and didn't need to change until 2 years ago for the 290. Both of them are reference and are still in use/working. Can't say that with nvidia, all of them died (except the MX400 and the 6600) and none were overclocked.

    To me nvidia is all marketing and software gimmicks that tends to break every other games until they resolve it but with a scaled back performance on the game that used that gimmick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    NightAntilli likes this.
  12. atari1980

    atari1980 TS Rookie

    Forgot to mention. I also got an nforce 750 based (evga FTW - $$$$) motherboard.

    Which was supposed to be one of the 'best' motherboard out there. The fastest chipset money could buy at the time.

    But it had a corruption problem (the 780 chipset was even having data hdd corruption),I would watch some video on youtube and it would freeze my computer, then reset, everytime. it never was resolved - only mitigated somehow, how ? by adding latency (which then defeated the purpose of this chipset). you can look it up, it was a pretty well documented hardware flaw, and nvidia was really slow to respond, with a software 'fix' that slowed it's chipset .

    I really tried to like nvidia. They may have great engineering on paper, but the execution was quite poor and buggy for most of their products, cheap components, cheap materials on the gpu itself.

    Like I said, marketing and gimmicks (and lots of money).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  13. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 2,903   +2,068

    At least you are willing to admit that AMD's reputation is somewhat unearned, of which I can agree with. AMD's marketing department has always been a huge headache for them, over promising. They did it with Bulldozer and Vega. Not that it was as bad as some of things Nvidia's done though.
     
  14. I don't think you understand my point, if anything I am an example of exactly what has occurred with Nvidia and AMD.

    I bought into the I need to have the fastest crap from Nvidia and AMD over sold what they were going to release....
     
  15. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 2,903   +2,068

    Long Interview with PCWorld authors and GPP expose author

     
  16. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 246   +184

     
    Evernessince likes this.
  17. wizardB

    wizardB TS Booster Posts: 126   +26

    So what you're saying is it's business as underhandedly as usual for Nvidia, they've been one of the most dishonest companies in tech forever. Since their days of buying 3DFX and basically ripping the guts out of one of the best companies of the time, frame rates that are only high because they don't render the complete scene and every other scam they've pulled over the years why should we expect better from the dirtbags that run that outfit.
     
    atari1980 likes this.
  18. bohemond1099

    bohemond1099 TS Member Posts: 49   +14

    AMD would have XFX though! As far as I know they exclusively do AMD?
     
  19. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 246   +184

    Sure. They have XFX, Sapphire, and now also Asrock.
     
  20. WolfMonster

    WolfMonster TS Rookie

    Agreed. We all know that while Vega, sadly didn't touch GTX1080Ti (or the Titans) it did put a ton of pressure on the GTX1080 and GTX1070 so much so NVidia released the GTX1070Ti (with strict rules about not overclocking and surpassing the 1080 series.) So while NVidia still holds the fastest/most powerful it still has felt a lot of heat from AMD.
     
  21. WolfMonster

    WolfMonster TS Rookie


    Seriously?

    They can sell whomever's GPUs they want: which is non-exclusivity. Apparently for the GPP, this is true of NON GAMING CARDS ONLY. This makes their statement misleading... a half-truth. A half-truth is not the whole truth; it's more of a lie than the truth.

    Improved efficiency to the levels NVidia will allow.

    They can't determine now what cards use what GPUs?

    Explain please HOW there is no evidence, when you state clearly that there is? You yourself state that the Gaming monikers have to be exclusive. That goes against non-exclusivity.

    As already stated. ROG belongs to Asus, GeForce belongs to NVidia. AMD and their AiBs don't and can't use GeForce as it's tradmarked. Asus, MSI, ASRock, Gigabyte, everyone else, cannot use the name GeForce when it comes to computer parts as NVidia, will under the law, have a legal right to sue them for trademark infringement. The only way they can is if a NVidia GeForce part is on the part.

    ROG gets its reputation, not from NVidia, but from the build quality, and the cooling solutions, not the specific chip on-board.

    You IGNORE PhysX forced to use only NVidia GPUs: if one isn't present, it forces CPU use, which loads down the CPU.
    You IGNORE GodRays
    You don't fully acknowledge HairWorks' impact.
    You IGNORE GameWorks

     
  22. Ebikeric

    Ebikeric TS Rookie

    I thought about going back to Nvidia for my next graphics card but not any more... Play it fair big guy!
     
  23. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 246   +184

  24. wizardB

    wizardB TS Booster Posts: 126   +26

    I have bought nothing but Gigabyte motherboards to build systems, I guess since they feel it's best to do this I think I'll find a company with more sence.
     
  25. NightAntilli

    NightAntilli TS Maniac Posts: 246   +184

    Indeed. It's already obvious that MSI and Gigabyte are in on this. Asus will likely also be confirmed...

    For me it's no nVidia (but I already did that), no MSI products, no Gigabyte, and when Asus is confirmed, no Asus either. That includes everything, including mice, laptops, keyboards, monitors, routers... I'll stick to Asrock for motherboards, and there are still enough other graphics card brands to choose from.
     
    wizardB likes this.

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