umm wtf happened to the gtx 300 series?
I stand corrected. It seems that my estimation of $299 is in fact $290 for the cards that are available. Always good to see when you're expections are exceeded by 3%.
dividebyzero, GT220 and 210 are DX10.1, too. But I think they skipped to the 400 because they've already announced 300 cards which are DX10.1, and didn't want to be accused of pulling another GeForce4 MX..
Anyway, I kind of pity the people who've been waiting for these cards. Sure, it never hurts to wait and they may actually turn out good, but if you're the kind to buy the GeForce 400 series at release time, you're also the kind who could have enjoyed a Radeon 5000 series for the past few months.
And I really hope they'd have at least a few cards in stores when they announce the card. They don't have to have a lot -- after all, AMD didn't with Radeon 5870 -- but having something at least lets some of the enthusiasts breath a sigh of relief.
estimation? you provided links of cards over $300 saying AMD/Partners were price gouging.
I said they weren't, you gave reseller links to try to prove me wrong. just look at the previous posts.
So a respected tech reporting contributor is wrong, whereas everyone should believe an anonymous "Guest" because their opinion is stated as fact....riiiiiiiiiight...Hello all…I think we need to stop taking sides and just look at the mere facts. The website listing the GTX470 price of 299.99 is clearly wrong .
Given that the $US299 price quoted was for the second tier of performance card then the card's price is indicative of it's position regarding the current hierachy vis-a-vis the GTX260 (216) / GTX275......Striiiiiike TWO!!!!and is misleading a lot of people. 1st and foremost do you guys honestly believe Nvidia is going to release a new card with new architecture that is supposedly faster than their current lineup for cheaper? .
Not to you maybe, but as the card if effectively EOL -along with the GTX 295, and prices tend to up at that point...another example would be an 8800 Ultra for $US229.The 285GTX still sales for close to 400.00 and its outclassed by the competition at that price. For those who will argue that they are doing that until the new cards come out, well that still doesn’t make sense.
We're moving away from the mere facts part of the argument I assume...What I believe ....
Soooooo, you're "opinion" is in fact is an already proven fact for the rest of us.....You obviously aren't Edward De Bono writing under the guise of anonymityNvidia is going to do is re-badge the current gtx200 series line up to 3series (they have done that before) for midrange and add direct x 10.1 the 4series will be dx11 and they will have a new lineup from low to high end.
Your own opinion makes sense to you!!! GTFO, that is amazing !This makes sense to me .
Mmmmmm, why is that ?....could it be that the cards are EOL ?....Striiiiike THREE!!because you will be hard pressed to get a gtx275 or 285 (slightly modified architecture than the 280 and 260) nowadays and the sites that carry them only have 3-5 different brands and all are typically in low quantity
Which at todays exchange rate equates to some pocket lint and a small pebble.But that’s my 2cents.
Whaaaat , You ARE Edward De Bono !Only time will tell what will happen.
No Sh*t !.....A new architecture late to market being produced by, and not taking into account, a foundry that is doing a passable impression of the Keystone Cops facing a successful rivals' on time and performing products....you Guest, simply amaze me in your prognosticative ability.but the outlook for the green team doesn’t look all the promising right now.
So a respected tech reporting contributor is wrong, whereas everyone should believe an anonymous "Guest" because their opinion is stated as fact....riiiiiiiiiight...
Striiiiiike ONE !!!
Given that the $US299 price quoted was for the second tier of performance card then the card's price is indicative of it's position regarding the current hierachy vis-a-vis the GTX260 (216) / GTX275......Striiiiiike TWO!!!!
Not to you maybe, but as the card if effectively EOL -along with the GTX 295, and prices tend to up at that point...another example would be an 8800 Ultra for $US229.
Most of the stock would be held now by resellers who would need the sale price to be high to recoup their initial wholesale purchase price. I wouldn't discount the fact that nVidia still need the GTX285/295 to appear in inventory to give the illusion that they are still offering products to counter the HD5850/5870 - if remaining stock is sold cheaply then it will not be replaced leaving the GTX 275 as nVidia's "flagship" desktop SKU
We're moving away from the mere facts part of the argument I assume...
Soooooo, you're "opinion" is in fact is an already proven fact for the rest of us.....You obviously aren't Edward De Bono writing under the guise of anonymity
Your own opinion makes sense to you!!! GTFO, that is amazing !
Mmmmmm, why is that ?....could it be that the cards are EOL ?....Striiiiike THREE!!
Which at todays exchange rate equates to some pocket lint and a small pebble.
Whaaaat , You ARE Edward De Bono !
No Sh*t !.....A new architecture late to market being produced by, and not taking into account, a foundry that is doing a passable impression of the Keystone Cops facing a successful rivals' on time and performing products....you Guest, simply amaze me in your prognosticative ability.
So a respected tech reporting contributor is wrong, whereas everyone should believe an anonymous "Guest" because their opinion is stated as fact....riiiiiiiiiight...
Striiiiiike ONE !!!
Given that the $US299 price quoted was for the second tier of performance card then the card's price is indicative of it's position regarding the current hierachy vis-a-vis the GTX260 (216) / GTX275......Striiiiiike TWO!!!!
Not to you maybe, but as the card if effectively EOL -along with the GTX 295, and prices tend to up at that point...another example would be an 8800 Ultra for $US229.
Most of the stock would be held now by resellers who would need the sale price to be high to recoup their initial wholesale purchase price. I wouldn't discount the fact that nVidia still need the GTX285/295 to appear in inventory to give the illusion that they are still offering products to counter the HD5850/5870 - if remaining stock is sold cheaply then it will not be replaced leaving the GTX 275 as nVidia's "flagship" desktop SKU
We're moving away from the mere facts part of the argument I assume...
Soooooo, you're "opinion" is in fact is an already proven fact for the rest of us.....You obviously aren't Edward De Bono writing under the guise of anonymity
Your own opinion makes sense to you!!! GTFO, that is amazing !
Mmmmmm, why is that ?....could it be that the cards are EOL ?....Striiiiike THREE!!
Which at todays exchange rate equates to some pocket lint and a small pebble.
Whaaaat , You ARE Edward De Bono !
No Sh*t !.....A new architecture late to market being produced by, and not taking into account, a foundry that is doing a passable impression of the Keystone Cops facing a successful rivals' on time and performing products....you Guest, simply amaze me in your prognosticative ability.
Ok either you have shaking baby syndrome or you are on crack. I would like for you to give me an example of where nvidia release a new card under new architecture that performs better than its lineup at that time for cheaper?
Finding different "architectures" in stock at one etailer is a bit of a tough ask when looking for new cards...but here goes:Ok… I see that you have a problem with comprehension or you are attempting to avoid the question. So I will repeat it again. I would like for you to give me an example of where nvidia release a new card under new architecture that performs better than its current lineup at that time for cheaper?
On the same basic architecture-not a hell of a lot different from G80 and G92, they are both evolutionary in nature, not revolutionary. Neither are ground-up re-designs, new architectures inherently mean increased R&D costs that need to be factored in-hence the high launch price for the G200, which seems to be your main point of interest. You might note that similar changes in architecture from ATI produce the same pricing structure- compare the $US399 launch price for the HD2900XT against the $240 launch price for the HD3870.Example Ati the 3000 series to is 4000 series successor. The 4000 series was a performance improvement over the 3000 series.
You'll soon have a chance to find out. By your own admission you say the GTX285 retail price is "close to $400". You expect that price to drop or increase as stock dries up? IIRC the GTX285 isn't "new architecture" -you'll need to be looking at GTX 280 prices.…that’s why “in my opinion” I cant see the 470gtx if does perform better than the 285gtx being cheaper…
Assuming that the TSMC 40nm process is likely as bugged as is claimed, then the top binned GPU's are likely to make up maybe 10% of viable cards, of which a great percentage are going to end up as workstation cards (C2050/C2070) since the HPC market are quite happy to pay $5000+ per card. Bearing in mind all the variables then I'd be surprised if a GTX480 is listed below $US600...Lets entertain your “opinion” here for a sec. If the 470gtx is 299.99 how much will the 480gtx be?
So using your argument....
A GTX470 selling at $499 makes a viable sales alternative to a HD5850 at $300 ? or a HD5870 (which is likely to have better gaming performance) at $379 ?
As I mentioned, and you seem to have ignored, the GTX480 SKU's are probably not going to hit retail in any numbers ( 5,000 cards worldwide is the rumoured, and oft quoted figure), if they can't be purchased then it doesn't matter if it's two,five or ten times more expensive than the GTX470.
What you seem to have trouble comprehending is that the GTX480 is a marketing exercise. Since it cannot be released in anything approaching retail availability then the nVidia spin will be to release a few cards at a time in order to regain the title "worlds fastest GPU"- that fact alone gets customers to buy GT220's et al, and if you don't think that effort is worth it then ask yourself why AMD has chosen the GTX4xx release time to allow vendor OC cards and will most likely bring out a refresh of the HD5870 using hoarded speed binned GPU's. You can also bet that if this refreshed (HD5890 ?) card surpasses the GTX480 in performance then the reference HD5970 will be allowed to die after one of the shortest production runs in card history, simply because AMD will not need to counter "the worlds fastest GPU" with "the world fastest graphics card".
While I will stop short of saying your argument makes no sense, it does however take a very narrow and simplistic world view.
FWIW.
Your argument regarding the 9 series to G200 pricing shows a shocking lack of knowledge. Again with the apples-to-oranges tortured analogy. The GTX260 has no analog in the 9 series, and the GTX280 (top tier) succeeds the 9800GX2 (top tier), and not the 9800GTX.
List price for the GTX 280 was $650, with the retail price of 9800GX2's commanding a $20-30 premium over that*( the 9800GX2 launch price was $500). So assuming that the new in-stock not refurbished) price for a 9800GX2 remains static for another three weeks (this example is indicative of pricing at $US672 ) then we will have an architecture that is twice removed from the current one selling for effectively the same price- the 9800GX2 cards available would most likely be more expensive as those available now are generally waterblocked and/or vender OC varieties.
If you are looking for two architectures from one manufacturer selling side-by-side, like-for-like cards then you should be the one to seek "Judge Judy's" call (whoever she is). New architectures supplant the old, thats why they make them, or do you see AMD keeping the HD4890 around to take share away from the HD5830? (for example).
Also....."Isn’t it safe to say that the 470GTX and 480GTX are pretty much the same card...for the exception that certain features are cut back…(like cuda cores, possible memory speeds etc…) kinda like what ati did to differentiate the 5850 from the 5870?"
In a word, No.
The GTX470 will likely use a 320-bit memory bus, the GTX480 will use a 384-bit, whereas the HD5850 and 5870 both share a 256-bit bus, consequently the GTX470 will have 1283Mb of GDDR5 , while the GTX480 will have 1536Mb, unlike the HD5850/5870 which are both 1Gb cards. There is also a school of thought that some GTX480/Quadro/Tesla parts will have the original (likely) specced 512 shader (cuda)/700MHz Core/1600MHz shader/1100MHz (4400MHz effective) memory, as opposed to the neutered 480/625/1250/1000 that most are expecting- these in addition to the GTX470/480. If true then these SKU's, if available, will command a massive premium over the lower rated parts as not even a refreshed overclocked HD5870 is likely to match it's performance.
* The 9800GX2 debuted only 3-4 months prior to the GTX280/260. People looking for the max-performance card bought the 9800GX2 -including my customers- and due to the price of them delayed buying a second for quad SLI until they had the funds available, by the time they were ready to buy, the GTX280/260 had been released so buyers ended up paying slightly more for an older card. Not seen as a big deal at the time because in a few notable games the 9800GX2 runs very close to the GTX280 in performance.
Anyway, I'm done here...no doubt you'll repost, especially if the MSRP is realized at $499 for the GTX470. I certainly don't think you'll be reposting if $499 is a hundred or more too high...all part of the no-risk, no-balls joy of being anonymous I guess.
BTW the 470 and the 480GTX are binned from the same chip...
So a respected tech reporting contributor is wrong, whereas everyone should believe an anonymous "Guest" because their opinion is stated as fact....riiiiiiiiiight...
Striiiiiike ONE !!!
Given that the $US299 price quoted was for the second tier of performance card then the card's price is indicative of it's position regarding the current hierachy vis-a-vis the GTX260 (216) / GTX275......Striiiiiike TWO!!!!
Not to you maybe, but as the card if effectively EOL -along with the GTX 295, and prices tend to up at that point...another example would be an 8800 Ultra for $US229.
Most of the stock would be held now by resellers who would need the sale price to be high to recoup their initial wholesale purchase price. I wouldn't discount the fact that nVidia still need the GTX285/295 to appear in inventory to give the illusion that they are still offering products to counter the HD5850/5870 - if remaining stock is sold cheaply then it will not be replaced leaving the GTX 275 as nVidia's "flagship" desktop SKU
We're moving away from the mere facts part of the argument I assume...
Soooooo, you're "opinion" is in fact is an already proven fact for the rest of us.....You obviously aren't Edward De Bono writing under the guise of anonymity
Your own opinion makes sense to you!!! GTFO, that is amazing !
Mmmmmm, why is that ?....could it be that the cards are EOL ?....Striiiiike THREE!!
Which at todays exchange rate equates to some pocket lint and a small pebble.
Whaaaat , You ARE Edward De Bono !
No Sh*t !.....A new architecture late to market being produced by, and not taking into account, a foundry that is doing a passable impression of the Keystone Cops facing a successful rivals' on time and performing products....you Guest, simply amaze me in your prognosticative ability.