Oversized trucks and SUVs targeted in the US by new safety proposal

[mbk34]

Having grown up in the former USSR, I remember once trying to carry a replacement kitchen cabinet through the subway system. A truck is the third of my three vehicles, but -- remembering that experience -- I intend to keep it, thanks.

In a weird coincidence, I'm picking up a flat packed kitchen base unit tomorrow but it should easily fit in the back of my wife's small town car. Don't they have flat packing in America?

 

[SRB]

So, what are the statistics for truck/passenger collisions? Versus cars? Do they establish which one was at fault? Better question is: Do they care? Yes, these regulations are designed to solve a problem, but there is no point defining the problem they list because these rules are NOT designed to solve a pedestrian problems, they are designed to achieve a solution to their quest to eliminate fossil fuels by deceit.

This is about getting rid of trucks by pricing them out of range for the average consumer. EV's are already priced out of most peoples budgets (leaving aside the question of use cases), so let's level the playing field by making trucks MORE expensive.

I get it, I've always driven a car and always will. And I know truck owners feel they own the road. I pull up to a stop at the proper spot and wait to turn, the truck driver comes up next to me, pulls up as far as he can without being in the intersection, and keeps me from seeing a damn thing. I could go on, but that's not the point.

For those of you who are discussing how trucks have grown so much, is that really the case? Here's a few stats between my personal car and a F-150 Regular cab:

Curb weight-car: 3765lb F150: 4070lb, overall lengh- car:207.2in, F150-209in., Wheelbase-car: 113" F150: 122 in
Height- car: 53.6in F150 75in. Model year- car 1998, F150 2023

Keep in mind, even large SUV's are usually the same or smaller than a standard pickup (Suburban, Expedition, Excursion not withstanding.

The fastest way to achieve what they want is to simply drive fuel prices up. In 2008, you could not give away a Suburban or Mustang GT when the shot through the roof. Keep in mind, they tried this right after the 2020 election, only problem this time is they were faced with open revolt from the masses, so they did an about face and patted themselves on the back for clawing back half of the original price increase.

 

[mountains]

So vehicle/pedestrian deaths are increasing. I wonder how many of these are from pedestrians (maybe drivers, too) on their phones or ear buds and walking in front of vehicles. Seems like that has increased.

 

[Nictron]

Those things are all beyond the scope of these guidelines which are about vehicle design. I don't see how its pathetic at all, that there are multiple approaches to solving a problem. That's just how the world works. And you don't use the existence of one problem, as an excuse to not talk about another contributing factor. As a society we can do more than one thing at once.

I completely disagree as pedestrian responsibility should be highlighted by the, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in introducing a new proposal. Yet no mention of any pedestrian responsibilities in the proposed proposal to reduce pedestrian deaths or highlighted in the article.

Not a single paragraph or link in 280 page document that talks to pedestrian safety responsibilities.

This is where we have gotten to as a society. No personal responsibility. Responsibility is always outsourced or someone else's problem.

The least this article could've done was link to the websites: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/pedestrian-safety link to help reduce this problem and raise awareness.

 

[passingposeidon]

I completely disagree as pedestrian responsibility should be highlighted by the, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in introducing a new proposal. Yet no mention of any pedestrian responsibilities in the proposed proposal to reduce pedestrian deaths or highlighted in the article.

Not a single paragraph or link in 280 page document that talks to pedestrian safety responsibilities.

This is where we have gotten to as a society. No personal responsibility. Responsibility is always outsourced or someone else's problem.

The least this article could've done was link to the websites: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/pedestrian-safety link to help reduce this problem and raise awareness.

I don't see how anything you're saying negates anything I said. Pedestrian responsibility will be handled separately, and I wouldn't expect a report on that to go on a tangent around car design.

 

[MakeMSGreatAgain]

While I find large vehicles annoying, why don't we look at solving the actual problem - people not paying attention to where they are walking / driving. 99% of these pedestrian and vehicle collisions are due to at least one if not both people not paying attention to what they are doing. People, are the problem, not the vehicles.

Now with that said, accidents still will happen even if everyone was paying attention. Sometimes people genuinely misjudge things, or just error, or have vision issues, etc. Humans are fallible. Vehicles on the roads need to be compatible with each other as far as crashing goes... so all these lifted trucks and SUV's needs to stop, and lowered cars needs to stop. Bumpers need to meet in a collision, not tires. I've seen plenty of injuries from lifted truck drivers because their airbags didn't go off because their bumper was too high that it didn't trigger the bag in a collision.

Look lifted vehicles are cool, offroad... lowered vehicles are cool, on the race track. That's it, this **** stuff shouldn't be on the public roads. And don't even get me started about headlamps, that's a whole different rant.

 

[BadThad]

Absolutely the LAST thing America needs is more regulations! Nothing more than another government power grab in the name of saving 67 people per year....utterly ridiculous. How about people actually pay attention to where they're walking instead of their face buried in a phone? A law prohibiting walking and looking at a phone would save MANY more people. GOVERNMENT SUCKS!

 

[TheElder]

I completely disagree as pedestrian responsibility should be highlighted by the, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in introducing a new proposal. Yet no mention of any pedestrian responsibilities in the proposed proposal to reduce pedestrian deaths or highlighted in the article.

Not a single paragraph or link in 280 page document that talks to pedestrian safety responsibilities.

This is where we have gotten to as a society. No personal responsibility. Responsibility is always outsourced or someone else's problem.

The least this article could've done was link to the websites: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/pedestrian-safety link to help reduce this problem and raise awareness.

More regulations increase product cost.

 

[dmatheson]

The problem is that fuel efficiency is linked to the gross vehicle weight rating. In order to be able to sell a truck that can do truck things, manufactures are forced to make them massive. The popularity of Kei trucks in the US is evidence of the fact that people don't want or even need trucks this large. If you look at a 90s f250, they are smaller than the f150s of today.

I'm all for increasing fuel efficiency standards, but the economy needs work trucks to get work done. Not everyone wants or needs a massive f250 for the work they're doing. People don't need massive trucks to do landscaping or haul tools around. Fuel and emissions standards have killed the small trucks of the 80s and 90s.

At a certain point, it just comes down to how much energy you need to move something from point A to B. There is a minimum for that, it's why electric trucks lose massive amounts of range when towing. However, to meet fuel efficiency standards, tthey can't put bigger engine in a small chassis. This creates a problem where the amount of fuel to move from A to B is actually increased because inorder to make a platform capable of doing work, they have to make the trucks heavier.

The other ironic part is that they said small trucks don't meet satefy standards. So now we ended up with larger trucks that are more dangerous than the smaller trucks.

EDIT: and just to make a final point on vehicle size, people aren't going to buy a vehicle SMALLER than what they need. There is real demand for midsized SUVs and trucks, but when you price them closer to the big models people are going to go with the mentality of "well, the bigger one is only a few percent more expensive". And since they're almost always financed people usually only see it as an extra $50-100/m

This is a good argument, except that you only tag SUVs at the very end, and from what I see, they are the lion's share of the offenders. Anything to size those suckers down, I'm for. Every time I see a giant SUV that has less utility than a minivan (no automatic sliding doors, seats fewer people, less accessible cargo room, etc.) I think that person is compensating for something or doesn't have the confidence to drive a minivan or both. Sorry, I like a good-looking car as much as the next person, but cars are utilitarian first and identity-defining second. So now you know what I'm thinking when I see someone driving an oversized SUV, I'm guessing I'm not alone.

 

[scavengerspc]

And dont even get me started on how ****ing useless anything under an 8ft bed is.

Ok brother, as long as you promise to not get me started on the fact that trucks are still easily available with 8' beds. But very few buy them.

 

[dmatheson]

This is a good argument, except that you only tag SUVs at the very end, and from what I see, they are the lion's share of the offenders. Anything to size those suckers down, I'm for. Every time I see a giant SUV that has less utility than a minivan (no automatic sliding doors, seats fewer people, less accessible cargo room, etc.) I think that person is compensating for something or doesn't have the confidence to drive a minivan or both. Sorry, I like a good-looking car as much as the next person, but cars are utilitarian first and identity-defining second. So now you know what I'm thinking when I see someone driving an oversized SUV, I'm guessing I'm not alone.

Also, the automobile industry lobbied for this particular rule at a time when there was low demand for SUV's and heavy pickups. It was actually a concession to them. So, the ridiculousness of the rules you describe that resulted in the explosion of SUVs was artificially juiced by the industry lobby to get AROUND the CAFE standard.

 

[PurpaFur]

Admittedly when you live in a 50 sq. meter European apartment with a "yard" the size of three postage stamps, a truck may not seem too useful, but when you have a 7,000 sq. foot home on 6 acres, the situation is a bit different.

Having grown up in the former USSR, I remember once trying to carry a replacement kitchen cabinet through the subway system. A truck is the third of my three vehicles, but -- remembering that experience -- I intend to keep it, thanks.

Thing is, though, a truck isn't necessary to accomplish that kind of hauling. I have a 2003 Honda Odyssey minivan and with the two middle bucket seats removed and the back bench seat lowered into the floor, I can easily haul an entire triple-wide recliner couch. Unless you're towing stuff, there's no reason to need a truck.