Religious websites are three times riskier than porn sites for malware

I guess I expected them to turn a blind eye to religious groups.
Hackers do not have morals. If hackers had any morals they would not have become hackers. No one is safe from a hacker, if there is anything the hacker thinks they could gain from an attack. There is a larger crowd behind religion than there is Apple, so why wouldn't religious sites be targeted?
 
I'm still not sure how some basic statistics has got everyone so riled up? (Not that a use Symantec products).
And you'd don't see where this thread is basically an open invitation to a religious argument?

I see that but really, the article wasn't about atheist vs religious sites. Which would be an interesting statistic. Atheist sites might suffer less hacking because they need to be hardened against religious hackers?
 
When a religious person is 'talking' with god, what they are really doing is reinterpreting their subconscious as 'god'. If you ask them to ask 'god' a question that they themselves don't know the answer to, they always fail (you can't test god). When they do communicate with 'god' they always receive vague responses that send them on the (often) wrong path ... later they receive further 'communication', realise that they should change their path, then go on their merry way again. Go figure...

Maybe one of the most arrogant, laughably pretentious and ignorant posts I've ever had the misfortune to come across. For a minute I thought you were trolling but then I came the stunning realization you were serious.
 
Do you know what used to happen to you if you didn't believe in a god? You were killed, imprisoned, or tortured. I wonder why so many scholars in history were religious...

Or maybe it was because science hadn't been invented yet, and pretty much <I>everyone</I> believed in God? Most of the great early scientists were looking for evidence of divine creation - they were seeking to prove that God exists, rather than the opposite. Funny thing, too..most of them actually became <I>more</I> devout as they learned more about the universe they inhabited. Somewhere along the way, however, people decided, for whatever reason, that the idea of "creation" was incompatible with "adaptation". I haven't found a single line in any Protestant bible, the Koran or various other sacred texts that would suggest this is the case. Its actually pretty remarkable how much effort anti-religious types spend misrepresenting religious tenets or practices - they seem especially fixated on reaching back to the Middle Ages to shore up their arguments. This seems particularly disingenuous centuries after the Reformation: if you ask almost any Buddhist, Christian or other practicing member of a generally tolerant and voluntary faith you'll find they don't believe in things like divine mandates. Christians in particular understand that their religion was essentially held hostage by corrupt Catholic and Anglican leaders during the feudal periods. But the thing people forget is that faith and <I>religion</I> are really different concepts. Religion is the collection of traditions surrounding a particular faith, and there are no two churches whose traditions are exactly alike. However, at day's end its really just the believer and his God - everything else is window dressing to give some kind of context to the gathering of people with similar beliefs. I have nothing but respect for those who are willing to walk the narrow path that some religions demand, as long as their not using their faith as a means to some material end..or to attack those they feel threatened by, like atheists seem to feel regarding those who believe in the divine.
 
Maybe one of the most arrogant, laughably pretentious and ignorant posts I've ever had the misfortune to come across. For a minute I thought you were trolling but then I came the stunning realization you were serious.
Oh goody, here' the pot calling the kettle "troll.

*edit: "ignorant <I>series</I> of posts".
Or maybe it was because science hadn't been invented yet, and pretty much <I>everyone</I> believed in God? Most of the great early scientists were looking for evidence of divine creation - they were seeking to prove that God exists, rather than the opposite. Funny thing, too..most of them actually became <I>more</I> devout as they learned more about the universe they inhabited. Somewhere along the way, however, people decided, for whatever reason, that the idea of "creation" was incompatible with "adaptation". I haven't found a single line in any Protestant bible, the Koran or various other sacred texts that would suggest this is the case. Its actually pretty remarkable how much effort anti-religious types spend misrepresenting religious tenets or practices - they seem especially fixated on reaching back to the Middle Ages to shore up their arguments. This seems particularly disingenuous centuries after the Reformation: if you ask almost any Buddhist, Christian or other practicing member of a generally tolerant and voluntary faith you'll find they don't believe in things like divine mandates. Christians in particular understand that their religion was essentially held hostage by corrupt Catholic and Anglican leaders during the feudal periods. But the thing people forget is that faith and <I>religion</I> are really different concepts. Religion is the collection of traditions surrounding a particular faith, and there are no two churches whose traditions are exactly alike. However, at day's end its really just the believer and his God - everything else is window dressing to give some kind of context to the gathering of people with similar beliefs. I have nothing but respect for those who are willing to walk the narrow path that some religions demand, as long as their not using their faith as a means to some material end..or to attack those they feel threatened by, like atheists seem to feel regarding those who believe in the divine.

I notice that you're a "newcomer in training". It's always nice to welcome a "new troll into the fold", so to speak.

Anyway, the exact same thing could be said of the religious establishment, With them constantly trying to pound their views into the heads of an unsuspecting public, by whatever means they deem necessary. In support of that., I'd like to remind you that the Spanish Inquisition didn't formally end, until 1868.

And then, (may have been Plato), said something to the effect that a society can't succeed without an unprovable reward, and an unprovable punishment.

If you took organized religion out of the mix, and just taught the "golden rule", think how many religious zealots wouldn't be running on at the mouth constantly, and they actually might achieve something, or simply get jobs. Oh, sure then they have to pay taxes, because they relinquished their NPO status.

Moving on, there is a plausible psychiatric theory that states something to the effect that, "many of the prophets and even ordinary people of the past, would be diagnosed as "raving schizophrenics" by today's standards". This by virtue of the fact it is possible that people of olden times were unable to distinguish their own conscience from messages from an outside source. Works for me. "Dog told me to kill my neighbors", symptomatically, (and syntactically), differs little from, "God spoke to me from a burning bush".

In any event, do us the courtesy of not registering post after post, simply to inform us that you've said rude things and ranted. We're better off not knowing. And you'd be better of by not serially posting inflammatory nonsense.

Which is by all means not to say, "don't post inflammatory nonsense". Simply because that would make me a hypocrite. Knock yourself out, but learn to use the edit features of the forum. And that suggestion is simply because, to the best of my knowledge, it's against the rules not to.

I know, I know, so many rules. Rules made by God for man. Rules invented by the churches, to control man, by claiming they've come from God. And now this insult, forum rules. "Religion is the opium of the people". I think somebody famous said that.

I suspect that you're going to find it increasingly difficult to be be as right, righteous, and self righteous, as you so very obviously believe you are, all the time. Open forums just seem to work like that.
 
"If you took organized religion out of the mix, and just taught the "golden rule", think how many religious zealots wouldn't be running on at the mouth constantly, and they actually might achieve something, or simply get jobs. Oh, sure then they have to pay taxes, because they relinquished their NPO status."

Ya take religion out of man's history and see what happens when science isn't around to provide the same comfort for what is still ultimately unknown.
 
"If you took organized religion out of the mix, and just taught the "golden rule", think how many religious zealots wouldn't be running on at the mouth constantly, and they actually might achieve something, or simply get jobs. Oh, sure then they have to pay taxes, because they relinquished their NPO status."

Ya take religion out of man's history and see what happens when science isn't around to provide the same comfort for what is still ultimately unknown.
First, religion is was what was holding science back for a thousand years or so. And second, if you can't reconcile that we're only here for a short time, and still be a decent, happy person, then load up a pipe full of your, I'm going to live forever in paradise, because I'm such a great person, and I deserve it" powder, and smoke it. Did you ever question the old saw, "you're having a pipe dream"? Now you know what that's about. Religion is behavioural modification via propaganda, period.

"Fame, I'm gonna live forever"..... (music from "B" movies can be uplifting too, can't it? Eight bucks a month to Netflicks will get you a salvation of sorts also). You bet! good always triumphs over evil, and then there's the happy ending. So, here's a toast to mankind's delusion of a permanent happy ending!

In any event, I would like to give a great deal of credit to organized religion, for precipitating the invention of the pipe organ. An instrument which the sound of, on its own, can take you straight to heaven.

(And furthermore, pipe organs don't get hacked, religious websites do.. Another big plus for the "old ways"). Which brings us back to topic.
 
"If you took organized religion out of the mix, and just taught the "golden rule", think how many religious zealots wouldn't be running on at the mouth constantly, and they actually might achieve something, or simply get jobs. Oh, sure then they have to pay taxes, because they relinquished their NPO status."

Ya take religion out of man's history and see what happens when science isn't around to provide the same comfort for what is still ultimately unknown.
Replacing the unknown with religion, still leaves the unknown...
 
"First, religion is was what was holding science back for a thousand years or so."

I don't doubt that "religion" held science back for a while, but that does not mean science was not at some point "too weak" for the human conscience. Religion, at "your" best, only drew that out for a while longer.

"if you can't reconcile that we're only here for a short time, and still be a decent, happy person, then load up a pipe full of your, I'm going to live forever in paradise, because I'm such a great person, and I deserve it" powder, and smoke it."

Actually I can live with that LIKELY possibility of not being eternal, but personally I prefer the "why" to my perception of existence seeing as it is not even proven impossible, but also because there is literally no point in giving that up if I choose not to... there's no point to give it up because there is no point otherwise. In fact, if I were to stop believing one day I would have to be agnostic. At least agnosticism would not be filled with logical fallacies while at the same time claiming to be "logical." But hey, everyone's a hypocrite right? We can all make assumptions.

" Religion is behavioural modification via propaganda, period."
I would agree that much maybe even most of "religion" does this, but that most certainly is not conclusive to all religion.
 
"Replacing the unknown with religion, still leaves the unknown..."

Good point. But first of all how likely do you think it is man will one day know what even the majority of existence is let alone our own universe? Its even far less likely to happen in our lifetime. Don't get me wrong. If the "how" were one day complete and in doing so we still find no reason for the "why" this convo would be entirely different on all sides... or I guess just one side.
 
But if there is no "why" it shouldn't matter what we do or do not know anyways.
 
When a religious person is 'talking' with god, what they are really doing is reinterpreting their subconscious as 'god'. If you ask them to ask 'god' a question that they themselves don't know the answer to, they always fail (you can't test god). When they do communicate with 'god' they always receive vague responses that send them on the (often) wrong path ... later they receive further 'communication', realise that they should change their path, then go on their merry way again. Go figure...
Maybe you can share your experience with the rest of us? How do you know when you are communicating with God? How do you know your perceived relationship with God isn't your own personal illusion?

Maybe one of the most arrogant, laughably pretentious and ignorant posts I've ever had the misfortune to come across. For a minute I thought you were trolling but then I came the stunning realization you were serious.
 
When a religious person is 'talking' with god, what they are really doing is reinterpreting their subconscious as 'god'. If you ask them to ask 'god' a question that they themselves don't know the answer to, they always fail (you can't test god). When they do communicate with 'god' they always receive vague responses that send them on the (often) wrong path ... later they receive further 'communication', realise that they should change their path, then go on their merry way again. Go figure...

Maybe one of the most arrogant, laughably pretentious and ignorant posts I've ever had the misfortune to come across. For a minute I thought you were trolling but then I came the stunning realization you were serious.
Apologies, my browser seems to be messing up my posts. Reposted...

Maybe you can share your experience with the rest of us? How do you know when you are communicating with God? How do you know your perceived relationship with God isn't your own personal illusion?
 
"First, religion is was what was holding science back for a thousand years or so."

I don't doubt that "religion" held science back for a while, but that does not mean science was not at some point "too weak" for the human conscience. Religion, at "your" best, only drew that out for a while longer.

"if you can't reconcile that we're only here for a short time, and still be a decent, happy person, then load up a pipe full of your, I'm going to live forever in paradise, because I'm such a great person, and I deserve it" powder, and smoke it."

Actually I can live with that LIKELY possibility of not being eternal, but personally I prefer the "why" to my perception of existence seeing as it is not even proven impossible, but also because there is literally no point in giving that up if I choose not to... there's no point to give it up because there is no point otherwise. In fact, if I were to stop believing one day I would have to be agnostic. At least agnosticism would not be filled with logical fallacies while at the same time claiming to be "logical." But hey, everyone's a hypocrite right? We can all make assumptions.

" Religion is behavioural modification via propaganda, period."
I would agree that much maybe even most of "religion" does this, but that most certainly is not conclusive to all religion.
I'm going to switch sides here for a moment. Humans have a conscience and are self aware, that's a given. So, lets say that it was indeed "God" that instilled those things in us. Under close scrutiny, you begin to realize what a lousy practical joke that was played on us. Animals don't suffer from self pity or despair, they just go on being what they were designed(*) to be. Without "God", self awareness, or a conscience, we could force preists and therapists to stop running their mouths, asking stupid questions, and get real jobs.

(*)"Designed"was just a word choice. No need for anyone to entertain an evolutionary versus creationism diatribe because of it.
 
Animals don't suffer from self pity or despair, they just go on being what they were designed(*) to be.
Unless I totally misunderstood, I have no choice but to disagree. A couple of years ago, I might have agreed with you. Long story short, I picked out two identical puppies from a litter of pups. One was killed after being ran over by a vehicle and the other quit eating and crawled under the house to die within two days.
 
Unless I totally misunderstood, I have no choice but to disagree. A couple of years ago, I might have agreed with you. Long story short, I picked out two identical puppies from a litter of pups. One was killed after being ran over by a vehicle and the other quit eating and crawled under the house to die within two days.
Yeah, I often wonder what would happen if I lost one of my cats before the other. We've been together for 7+ years.

Well, you've inadvertently proved my other theory that man isn't really different from the animals, and isn't entitled to "dominion over them". We're discovering more and more that animals are smarter than anybody gives them credit for.

Dogs are a special case, and people believe that their association with humans is accelerating their evolution, as they're specifically tuned to read us.

If you're a dog loved, you have to watch an older "Nova" episode entitled, "Decoding the Dog", I guarantee you'll never forget it. (cheapest place is, $1.99 @ Amazon "Unbox Video").

As to the original issue we're probably both correct to one degree or another, as all reports of emotion and self awareness specifically address themselves to higher forms of mammalian life.

Anyway, meet this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis They're extinct. We most likely killed them, and also likely ate them, after we did. Meh, they were probably considered "bush meat", and "God" granted us the divine right to have them for dinner. Consider the chimpanzee, a delicacy in some circles.....

Gotta jet, I'm going to hit a few religious websites for some comfort, salvation, and best of all, the free malware......:eek:
 
"I'm going to switch sides here for a moment. Humans have a conscience and are self aware, that's a given. So, lets say that it was indeed "God" that instilled those things in us. Under close scrutiny, you begin to realize what a lousy practical joke that was played on us."

Just to be fair, that could easily work for deism... im not sure if deism has any religious practices, however.

"If you're a dog loved, you have to watch an older "Nova" episode entitled, "Decoding the Dog", I guarantee you'll never forget it. (cheapest place is, $1.99 @ Amazon "Unbox Video")."

I saw that nova episode and it is quite amazing. The top of a dog's skull actually evolved to be more round as wolves began to live with us through the generations. Not even an expert interrogator can pick up the micro-expressions dogs can pick up on.


"Well, you've inadvertently proved my other theory that man isn't really different from the animals"
"Animals don't suffer from self pity or despair, they just go on being what they were designed(*) to be."

Wait a sec.
 
And still many here ignore the comment about the cited geniuses being religious. When given the choice in times past of avowing religion and being executed as a heretic, I think most here would choose avowing religion.

And of course, that the cited geniuses avowed religion means the religious can claim that all geniuses were religious when such claims are unprovable at best and likely false by the historical fact that many of the cited geniuses were called before the almighty God, er., uh Church, because they taught things completely against the church's point of view. Self-deception works wonders justifying a viewpoint that has no justification. If those geniuses were alive today, I bet at least some of them would detest religion and claim that they had no choice other than to avow religion.

I bet Symantec left off the pirate sites as sources of malware because it is so blatantly obvious. Really, you need Symantec to tell you that pirate sites are sources of malware?

A better reason that I think religious cites are full of malware is because the owners think that the divine would never infect them - besides the owners having little technical knowledge.
 
"besides the owners having little technical knowledge."

No im pretty sure that's the more likely reason. I dont pray to God everytime I'm hungry and hope food falls from the sky. The "divine" doesnt infect computers the people who make the malware do. Besides, I wouldnt be surprised many of the websites were set up in some way, if not completely, by volunteers rather than professionals (little technical knowledge). It appears you have some type of irrational opposition, not just an opposition, towards those with faith.... unless of course you were kidding.
 
of course if there is no "why" or point then an opposition to anything is technically irrational too.
 
on May 8, 2012
12:41 PM

"besides the owners having little technical knowledge."
No im pretty sure that's the more likely reason. I dont pray to God everytime I'm hungry and hope food falls from the sky. The "divine" doesnt infect computers the people who make the malware do. Besides, I wouldnt be surprised many of the websites were set up in some way, if not completely, by volunteers rather than professionals (little technical knowledge). It appears you have some type of irrational opposition, not just an opposition, towards those with faith.... unless of course you were kidding.
Why would I kid? Whatever your religion, I hardly care what that is as long as you don't try to push it on me. If you do push it on me, then I tell you that I am syncretic.

What I do care about is those who cite fallacy as proof of their argument. Citing fallacy results in empty arguments; unless, of course, those who cite fallacy really are ignorant, and there was a study done over 10 years ago that provided evidence that the ignorant have no clue that they are, in fact, ignorant.

Regardless of the power behind the malware, it is the site owner's responsibility to keep the site clean. It's pretty trivial, you know, especially if you are hosting the site on your own machine - think free virus/malware scanners.

And if the site is hosted on some third-party server, then it is the responsibility of the site owner to ensure that the third-party hosting agent keeps their servers clean. If not, it is still the responsibility of the site owner that malware was placed on the site by the evil Devil.

Whether you like it or not, this is casting aspersions on religious sites and putting them in the ranks of the pirate sites.
 
Regardless of the power behind the malware, it is the site owner's responsibility to keep the site clean. It's pretty trivial, you know, especially if you are hosting the site on your own machine - think free virus/malware scanners.
Until I start seeing resources put in place to shut down the sources of all Mal-ware, I'm not sure it would be right to place such demands on site owners. How can we place such demands, if we never start helping with the eradication of the problem? Continue telling yourself its not my fight and you will never see the end of the war.
 
"What I do care about is those who cite fallacy as proof of their argument. Citing fallacy results in empty arguments; unless, of course, those who cite fallacy really are ignorant,
and there was a study done over 10 years ago that provided evidence that the ignorant have no clue that they are, in fact, ignorant."

The flip side to that is, of course, if an argument is weak, or at some point weak, citing fallacy tends to be the quickest and easiest way to show how weak it is or at least can be...If I had to guess, that's why these ignorant people you speak of in the study you didn't cite the source for do so... Isn't that what many agnostics and atheists do to people of faith anyways?

"Regardless of the power behind the malware, it is the site owner's responsibility to keep the site clean. It's pretty trivial, you know, especially if you are hosting the site on your own machine - think free virus/malware scanners. And if the site is hosted on some third-party server, then it is the responsibility of the site owner to ensure that the third-party hosting agent keeps their servers clean"

I agree. Not every volunteer as well as some "professionals" don't know or care enough to do that, however.

". If not, it is still the responsibility of the site owner that malware was placed on the
site by the evil Devil."

I do like humor. However if I remember correctly, christians don't actually think the devil has a computer himself to load malware onto the internet. They believe malicious intent is in man, obviously, it's just that the malicious or "evil" intent helps the "devil" in its own intent or cause.... Just clearing that up because for some, not saying you, can be just as ignorant on either side of the argument.

"Whether you like it or not, this is casting aspersions on religious sites and putting them in the ranks of the pirate sites."

This appears to be addressed to a different type of person but I'll reply to it anyways. If I had to guess on a likely cause for this here's what I'd guess: Pirates don't care for the malware in fact many support it. Religious websites, which are more than likely run by volunteers than anything, are simply not as aware. They would not be prosecuted in the same way that maybe msn.com would be if it started loading malware onto people's computers. I'd bet money that a good majority of religious websites don't even have the popularity that would be required for many of the site owners to give a **** anyways. I don't see verisign shutting them down either.

"A better reason that I think religious cites are full of malware is because the owners
think that the divine would never infect them - besides the owners having little technical knowledge."

religious sites* Anyways, what do you actually think is more likely? That they believe that they can just pray for food to cook itself or that they might actually have to cook it? But now that I've asked that question not only for you, but myself, I realize you must have been kidding.
 
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