Returning to college - Need help deciding between majors

[Elcarion]

My company is shipping 25% of all IT to India this year. I think this is the norm for large, greedy, American companies at least where IT is concerned. Some companies have moved all of their IT to India over the past couple of years.
Having worked in the IT Industry for about 13 years, let's just say that I know a lot of people out of work. The amazing thing is how many of the good people get laided off while the bad ones stay around.
I would focus on IT-related paths that are harder to ship overseas. Those are things like networking, security, project management, etc... While some of these jobs may move overseas the majority should remain.

 

[Phantasm66]

There are subtle improvements in the state of the IT industry, of late, at least according to any business report programs that I watch on cable. Anyway, I think by the time you have done your degree, the job market will have greatly improved.

Have a good, hard think about the course you will be doing, because that will shape your carreer. The main criteria for the choice is something that you enjoy doing, and can see yourself doing for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Don't just look for one thing like money, ot job satisfaction, etc, but instead look for something that seems overall a happy place for you to be. Choose carefully and wisely.

 

[Nic]

Originally posted by Elcarion ...
My company is shipping 25% of all IT to India this year. I think this is the norm for large, greedy, American companies at least where IT is concerned. Some companies have moved all of their IT to India over the past couple of years.

There is a time bomb ticking, and most of these 'well intentioned' companies don't realise it yet. Just think about it, if companies start moving IT offshore to save money, then why not move everything else offshore as well? Its the next logical step.

What they don't realise is that by moving all these skilled jobs offshore, everyone else will have nothing left to do except low skilled jobs that pay crap salaries.

Eventually, we will all become a nation of unskilled workers with low wealth generation for the nation, and the third world countries will have their roles reversed and become richer than the west.

Why not move all high paid jobs overseas? The same reasoning as applies to IT is equally applicable to other skilled jobs. Its not just jobs moving overseas, but staff are also recruited on contract from overseas.

This practice should really be made illegal if we are all to protect our ecomomy over the longer term. One day everyone will wake up and realise that it is too late.

I don't have a problem with having manufacturing work done overseas, when it can't be done locally, but I don't believe that it is good to do this as a permanent solution where skilled labour is concerned. The end result be that we will all become unskilled, as no jobs will exist for highly skilled workers, and as a result we will no longer lead the world in technology fields.

 

[Phantasm66]

That's an interesting idea, but to move all of these skilled jobs abroad, you have to have a well educated populace. Let's face it - people in some of these countries are more worried about where their next meal is comming from, never mind learning to read and write, and certainly never mind learning to write C# code or doing RDBMS.

 

[Nic]

There are a lot of highly skilled graduates in India that will work for peanuts, thats why IT has started to move offshore. The skills are already there - we should all be worried.

Look what happened to manufacturing. Now the same is happening to IT. What next?

 

[Phantasm66]

I don't think its quite reached that stage yet. I think it could. That's not to say that it will happen - and I certainly don't hope that it does - but it could.

 

[Nic]

Only legislation can stop it. The drive for compaies to remain competitive with their competitors is too strong to stop. Once the process starts there is no stopping it, though it won't happen overnight. The law needs to make it illegal, and that way no company will have any advantage over their competitors, so the landslide of skills moving overseas will stop.

 

[Phantasm66]

However... and I sense a darkside moment comming on... what's to stop me from moving abroad to chase that work??

 

[Nic]

Low wages. Thats the only reason for work moving abroad in the first place. If you don't mind working for a bag of rice a day (excuse the slight exaggeration) then you're welcome to move.

In fact, we'll all be exchanging places with out compatriots in India. They will all come over here, and we will all move over there. The transition will then be complete.

 

[Phantasm66]

You do have a point. However, I doubt that its quite as bad. And a good quality of life does cost less in some other countries. However, one has to weigh all of that up against the presence of flies, smells, and beggers. Let's be honest. Oh, and the cruel glare of the sun.

The job to be in right now, is plumbing. We can't get plumbers here. They are knocking back work.

Oh no, if you are looking for money, computing isn't the place to be right now. I only suggest a career in the IT industry right now if it is something that you are interested in. And good at. if not, you might as well be a plumber because they are earning a lot more than me right now.

I don't expect this situation to continue indefinately, nor do I completely subscribe to Nic's views, however I think he has a good point and its something that we need to think about.

 

[Nic]

Something you need to realise is that once skills move overseas, it won't be long before innovation also starts happening overseas, and all of us that are still here will have a very much harder time competing with the new emerging economies.

PS: I should imagine that it is even more difficult to find a good plumber in India.

 

[Phantasm66]

But surely you don't think that any day now the whole IT industry is going to up and move away from the UK to go to India, or something? That kind of effect is a gradual shift, that comes to the attention of governments and what not, who have the power to pass legislation, as you mentioned.

Now, from what I have heard on various current affairs programs, etc, there are already a few minute signs of a recovery in the IT industry in the West. It will take time, but I think things will get better. The business has had its ups and downs before, and although there will always be threats, I don't think we are necessarily sitting on the cusp of the demise of IT in the Western World. I just think that an IT industry and infrastructure shall SPREAD to countries like India, even Africa in time.

 

[Nic]

Just to be clear. I am not against other countries developing themselves to be as well off as the west. I am only against making our own skilled workforce jobless and unskilled by exporting skilled work overseas. We all need to bear the higher costs of supporting our own labour market, as that is where our wealth as a nation is indirectly generated.

There are two distinct procesess going on. The recovery in the IT sector is from a stock market crash and lack of investment. The second independent process is moving highly skilled work overseas, where it can be done more cheaply. Both processes are running concurrently at the moment. Government is already aware of discontent from the workforce in regard to work moving offshore, and there have already been calls for action. So far all has fallen on deaf ears.

Offshore outsourcing shrinks services prices

quote:
... Forty-two per cent of all active outsourcing engagements have an offshore component, and offshore outsourcing will "continue to spread to new segments and deepen its hold on the industry", IDC said ...

Importing skills: at what cost to the future?

quote:
... Unemployment levels are standing at record levels in the IT workforce at about 46,000 for IT staff and 30,000 for self-employed contractors, so why are UK employers looking overseas? ...

Your shout: On outsourcing

quote:
... Many of my friends see IT as a dead-end career and are advising their children not to go into it - what is the point of getting skilled up only to find that you are undercut by nations that can afford to price you out, with the advantage of a lower cost of living and an endless supply of literate, well-educated workers? ...

 

[Elcarion]

The other practice that my company is supposedly engaging in is highering foreign nationals here in the US then holding their work visa hostage. They get similar results: People willing to work long, hard hours for less pay. They're also a very big contributor to the two political parties....probably just a coincidence... :-(

 

[Nic]

These people are all *****s. We are ALL going to be out of work someday, and it won't even be worth going to college because there won't be any good paying jobs available to help repay your depts.

The west will become unskilled and fall behind the rest of the world due to poor education because it won't pay to get educated (even if you are one of the lucky few to find a job after graduating).

While there continues to be a drive towards cost cutting through paying low wages there won't be any incentive to innovate or go beyond the call of duty at work. It simply won't pay. Time to take up plumbing while there is still a demand.

What ever happened to the idea that the west will be doing all the high tech work, while other countries do all the manufacturing. Looks like that view was wrong, and in fact well all be doing manual work for low wages in the not so distant future.

 

[bedlam_4]

Listen, a good education is never a waste.

 

[Nic]

Originally posted by bedlam_4
Listen, a good education is never a waste.

Very true, and I hope that many would still regard college as worthwhile. I would certainly do it all over again, even without a job to look forward to after graduating (... please excuse the doom & gloom, but thats the way things are right now ...).

A good education is the most important thing you can do for yourself, so I hope that anyone considering going to college to study will not be detered by the current crisis in the IT jobs market. Just don't go stretching your finances too far so that you will be in a lot of debt when you graduate.

It takes knowledge and a good education to innovate, and it is innovation that drives the prosperity of any nation.

Here is what SAP CEO, Henning Kagermann, says about this ...

Innovate to create recovery and fuel growth, says SAP CEO

 

[Nic]

AMD completes Indian outsourcing move

Microsoft does u-turn, exports US jobs to India

 

[JSR]

500,000 IT jobs

are going overseas........cutting edge education is your only hope the world doesn't overtake us.......regardless, all things being equal.....they will work for less........thank god i'm a landscaper..........the grass just keeps on growin':grinthumb

 

[Nic]

This one's pretty alarming ...

Australian students warned there's no future in IT - the inquirer

Forget IT, Australian students told - original article

quote:
A SURVEY of the Australian technology industry has revealed that excessive outsourcing of information technology jobs means that students in the country may as well abandon hope of a career in the computer industry.

According to the report, in ZD Net Australia, the survey of IT managers revealed despondency and gloom about the future.

A staggering 90 per cent of the managers said they wouldn't suggest IT is a good career move. Indeed, it's a career limiting move (CLM).

Too many skilled techies are on the dole and the continued "outsourcing" of jobs means people are fighting for job scraps that fall off the IT kitchen table to feed.